Sun May 6, 2012, 11:38 PM
OmahaBlueDog (8,851 posts)
Asian markets, euro dive on Europe election results
Source: AFP via Google
HONG KONG — Asian markets tumbled and the euro hit a more than three-month low Monday after voters in France and Greece booted out ruling parties in a backlash against austerity measures aimed at battling the eurozone crisis. Adding to the bearish atmosphere was weak jobs data out of the United States last week, which fuelled concerns about recovery in the world's biggest economy and sent Wall Street sliding. Tokyo tumbled 2.62 percent by the break, Hong Kong slumped 2.45 percent, Sydney fell 1.51 percent, Seoul shed 1.70 percent, Wellington was 0.40 percent lower and Shanghai lost 0.41 percent. France's Nicolas Sarkozy was on Sunday dumped out by Socialist Francois Hollande, who had campaigned on a platform of boosting growth instead of introducing huge spending cuts to overcome the country's huge deficit. Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g_HLaBzqtdcnMoFgNo_LLlc7vYPg?docId=CNG.9acfd658a4e2dc4596cde4aee8ce77d8.1d1
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63 replies, 6541 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| OmahaBlueDog | May 2012 | OP | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #1 | |
| DJ13 | May 2012 | #2 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #4 | |
| dkf | May 2012 | #30 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #50 | |
| muriel_volestrangler | May 2012 | #51 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #53 | |
| girl gone mad | May 2012 | #35 | |
| AllyCat | May 2012 | #3 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #5 | |
| sabrina 1 | May 2012 | #8 | |
| dkf | May 2012 | #22 | |
| brentspeak | May 2012 | #28 | |
| dkf | May 2012 | #29 | |
| girl gone mad | May 2012 | #36 | |
| jhasp | May 2012 | #59 | |
| girl gone mad | May 2012 | #60 | |
| quaker bill | May 2012 | #40 | |
| JDPriestly | May 2012 | #24 | |
| raouldukelives | May 2012 | #27 | |
| chollybocker | May 2012 | #15 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #16 | |
| chollybocker | May 2012 | #25 | |
| JDPriestly | May 2012 | #20 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #49 | |
| JDPriestly | May 2012 | #54 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #55 | |
| JDPriestly | May 2012 | #63 | |
| OmahaBlueDog | May 2012 | #11 | |
| JDPriestly | May 2012 | #21 | |
| dkf | May 2012 | #23 | |
| NickB79 | May 2012 | #45 | |
| timlot | May 2012 | #6 | |
| OmahaBlueDog | May 2012 | #7 | |
| magic59 | May 2012 | #12 | |
| OmahaBlueDog | May 2012 | #13 | |
| magic59 | May 2012 | #14 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #17 | |
| magic59 | May 2012 | #9 | |
| Smilo | May 2012 | #10 | |
| elleng | May 2012 | #19 | |
| Tunkamerica | May 2012 | #31 | |
| Odin2005 | May 2012 | #18 | |
| dkf | May 2012 | #26 | |
| sendero | May 2012 | #34 | |
| hack89 | May 2012 | #52 | |
| sendero | May 2012 | #56 | |
| hack89 | May 2012 | #62 | |
| girl gone mad | May 2012 | #37 | |
| LeftishBrit | May 2012 | #41 | |
| Odin2005 | May 2012 | #58 | |
| boomerbust | May 2012 | #32 | |
| OKNancy | May 2012 | #33 | |
| girl gone mad | May 2012 | #38 | |
| leveymg | May 2012 | #39 | |
| OKNancy | May 2012 | #42 | |
| grahamhgreen | May 2012 | #43 | |
| harun | May 2012 | #61 | |
| SOS | May 2012 | #44 | |
| Fearless | May 2012 | #46 | |
| LeftishBrit | May 2012 | #47 | |
| OKNancy | May 2012 | #48 | |
| jwirr | May 2012 | #57 |
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:43 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
1. After 'the world' recognizes that its no time for austerity,
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markets will recover. Will take time, of course, to adjust to and recover from bush-era catastrophe. We can only hope that recognition will in fact occur.
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Response to elleng (Reply #1)
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:50 PM
DJ13 (21,338 posts)
2. Its the markets that want austerity
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The elites who control the markets believe the only way to escape any monetary losses for the economic crisis is to push for austerity that makes the 99% pay for it.
They've been behind the stupid austerity idea from the start, and I doubt they'll willingly accept a new direction. Its much more likely they will pull another "we'll crash the economic system if we dont get our way" like the blackmail Hank Paulson pulled in 08. |
Response to DJ13 (Reply #2)
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:58 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
4. I don't think so; I think its the stupid, mindless repug attitude,
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spread wild.
Paulson was a fool, and I suspect 'elites' to whom you refer knew it. Crashing the economic system, after all, finally harms them. |
Response to elleng (Reply #4)
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:42 AM
dkf (32,607 posts)
30. They are probably short and in line to make money in a crash.
Response to dkf (Reply #30)
Mon May 7, 2012, 05:01 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
50. Maybe, but at least according to today's Dow, won't be no crash!
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Haven't seen today's European markets yet.
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Response to elleng (Reply #50)
Mon May 7, 2012, 05:18 PM
muriel_volestrangler (65,316 posts)
51. Most European markets closed higher
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/stockmarket/default.stm
France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium. London was closed for a holiday today. Spain closed 2.72% higher (after a pretty awful 12 months). |
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #51)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:01 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
53. Thanks, muriel.
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Kind of suspected sanity would prevail!
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Response to DJ13 (Reply #2)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:41 AM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
35. Exactly.
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Unfortunately, they own many of the politicians. We're in for a long and bitter fight.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:55 PM
AllyCat (7,519 posts)
3. Let them crumble. The 99% don't need to follow the "markets" with bated breath.
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The people need help, not the friggin' stock markets.
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Response to AllyCat (Reply #3)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:00 AM
elleng (40,520 posts)
5. A lot of us among the 99% are invested in the stock markets,
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one way or another, as in retirement accounts etc.
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Response to elleng (Reply #5)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:33 AM
sabrina 1 (34,048 posts)
8. That was another brilliant idea of the Global Capitalists, to get their hands on the pension funds
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of working class people to gamble in the market with. That needs to change also. They want to do the same thing with SS, create 'private saving' accounts which can also be gambled away in the Wall St. Casino. Maybe now it's time to stop all of this, so that ordinary people have a say in what happens to their own money.
It was very clever, to involve everyone in the market. But who has benefited from all this gambling? How many people have completely lost their retirement funds from these crazy ideas? Everyone living in debt, we are enslaved by debt, and now many European countries are enslaved to the IMF, as were third world countries. I think a whole restructuring of the financial system is needed, and no more gambling with people's pension funds on Wall St. A majority of Americans have no interest in the market. It just doesn't do anything for them, anymore than going to Las Vegas. A few may benefit, but most will not. |
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #8)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:39 AM
dkf (32,607 posts)
22. Pretty much all savings are invested.
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Even a bank deposit.
I don't understand what you think happens. |
Response to dkf (Reply #22)
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:29 AM
brentspeak (16,567 posts)
28. Take a look at CD and savings account interest rates lately?
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At around or even less than 1%, depositing money in a bank is no more of an investment than stuffing it under a mattress.
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Response to brentspeak (Reply #28)
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:35 AM
dkf (32,607 posts)
29. Its an investment because someone borrowed it and is using it.
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Only a small part of your deposit stays at the bank. The other part is at risk.
Yeah it's FDIC insured but if a big bank goes down there's no money in that piggy. |
Response to dkf (Reply #29)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:47 AM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
36. Not true.
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Banks do not lend from deposits. Bank loans create deposits. Deposits are liabilities on a banks balance sheet, not assets
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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #36)
Mon May 7, 2012, 10:24 PM
jhasp (88 posts)
59. Loans are assets on the bank's balance sheet...
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and they are funded by deposits. Deposits are not "created" by banks; deposits are put in the bank by you and me (mine through direct deposit once per month).
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Response to jhasp (Reply #59)
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:24 PM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
60. Nope. Loans are not funded by deposits.
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I understand the neoclassical view of banking which you've described, but I'm talking about how banks actually function in the real world.
When you deposit money in a bank, you are not investing this money. The deposit is not used to fund business loans, home loans, or any other type of risk activity. Saving money in a bank is exactly the same as putting it under the mattress, plus a small interest rate given out by the bank. Loans do, in fact, create deposits. When an individual bank makes a loan, it debits the loans receivable account on its books then creates (credits) a new liability account in the name of the borrower, no differently than if the borrower had made a cash deposit at the bank. |
Response to dkf (Reply #22)
Mon May 7, 2012, 07:54 AM
quaker bill (7,127 posts)
40. The relevant question is in what?
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something of actual value or vaporware?
A very long time ago, investment involved creating businesses and building factories. Way too much of it now is derivatives of derivatives of speculative futures and the insurance policies against their eventual collapse. In short, a massive pile of paper printed in indeciferable math to disguise schemes Albert Ponzi could not have imagined in his most colorful dreams. |
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #8)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:43 AM
JDPriestly (37,737 posts)
24. You are so right, sabrina 1. That is also what they did prior to the crash of 1929.
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Read the history (not talking to you, Sabrina 1) if you think I am wrong.
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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #8)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:54 AM
raouldukelives (2,372 posts)
27. It really is a beautiful construct.
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With ever more brilliant minds being turned out each day to figure out new ways to fix the games in favor of the wealthiest. Today with people practically being forced into the system it only adds to the protection of "fiduciary responsibility" which enables corporations to run riot over human rights and the environment and then claim they can't be penalized because they were only looking after your best interests.
So in the end, the person really providing cover, abetting and profiting from some of the most heinous corporate crimes against nature and our fellow man in history is ourselves. |
Response to elleng (Reply #5)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:57 AM
chollybocker (3,590 posts)
15. So take your money out, and do what you want with it.
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No one's stopping you. If someone tries to stop you, kick up a fuss.
Is you is, or is you isn't? |
Response to chollybocker (Reply #15)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:00 AM
elleng (40,520 posts)
16. I'm invested for my future security,
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along with government pension and small soc. sec. I'm perfectly comfortable 'gambling' in this way. Who would try to 'stop' me?
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Response to elleng (Reply #16)
chollybocker This message was hidden by Jury decision.
Response to elleng (Reply #5)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:21 AM
JDPriestly (37,737 posts)
20. Yes, but our accounts are not showing gains because the 1% takes the profits.
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And we do not get anything like interest on our savings. No interest for savers while the banks charge exorbitant interest and fees on loans and credit card debt and lay off employees. Something stinks. I think it's the 1%.
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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #20)
Mon May 7, 2012, 04:55 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
49. My accounts are showing gains,
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Last edited Mon May 7, 2012, 05:35 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2) but certainly not my small bank savings account, at 0.15%.
Don't mean to brag, but just came into some funds to invest and am using my Dad's financial advisor. Very widely diversified 'portfolio,' including mutual funds in stocks, as well as funds in bonds. I recognize I'm fortunate, and I feel no need to apologize. |
Response to elleng (Reply #49)
Mon May 7, 2012, 07:53 PM
JDPriestly (37,737 posts)
54. Most of us do not have enough money to make advising us worthwhile to a financial adviser.
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And pension funds are sometimes (maybe more than sometimes) rip-offs. A lot of financial advisers can give some really bad advice. It's very difficult in this volatile market in which giants like Goldman and Morgan compete with you in trading and investing.
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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #54)
Mon May 7, 2012, 08:27 PM
elleng (40,520 posts)
55. Clearly have to be smart when selecting a financial adviser,
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but I don't think its difficult if people study their options, including from friends, family, business people in our communities, to find good advice. Also, good advice available to those with limited funds, imo, from reputable institutions, with no charge. (In my experience, for example, TRowe Price, Charles Schwab Co.)
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Response to elleng (Reply #55)
Tue May 8, 2012, 04:01 PM
JDPriestly (37,737 posts)
63. I don't trust any of the financial institutions or advisers.
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I do not have enough money to pay an adequate incentive for good advice.
Besides, you would be surprised to learn that if you don't have a lot of money and you call a broker to ask whether there is some way to get higher interest that what you are receiving from a bank, they will tell you no, not really, not if you want to protect your savings. I know this is the response you get because I have heard it. The 1% and those with connections get a good deal. The rest of us get taken to the cleaners. In fact, right now, what is going on is that the savings of the baby boomers are being transferred to the accounts of the 1%ers. That's the reality. |
Response to AllyCat (Reply #3)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:39 AM
OmahaBlueDog (8,851 posts)
11. What impacts the markets impacts the 99%
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The biggest way this will manifest itself in Greece specifically, and possibly Europe generally will be with the Euro. This could possibly be the beginning of the end for the Euro, and the idea of a free-trading Eurozone. A collapse of the Euro could have serious consequences with regard to unemployment, inflation, and a whole host of other aspects of European life. Don't look for the US to play a leadership role here. It's an election year, and there is no stomach for a bailout of Europe with our own economy in a slow recovery.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #11)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:28 AM
JDPriestly (37,737 posts)
21. We won't recover until we face the challenges of our time and stop living in the past.
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We need to find more efficient ways to organize transportation, and in searching for them we should focus on fuel efficiency even more than we are. We should switch from long-distance freight hauling by train to hauling by faster rail.
We need to reward people who switch to gas-efficient cars and trucks. And people who switch to really low mileage vehicles or who insulate their homes and switch to solar for their houses should be given outright bonuses of some sort, not just tax relief. That would encourage low-income people and seniors to change their energy consumption. If we could stop wasting so much on energy, we could use our savings for paying debt. |
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #11)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:41 AM
dkf (32,607 posts)
23. Sadly they will figure this out the hard way.
Response to AllyCat (Reply #3)
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:56 AM
NickB79 (9,397 posts)
45. And if the crashing stock market leads to another Great Depression?
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We've seen this show before, and it's not pretty.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:04 AM
timlot (92 posts)
6. US stock will rise.
Response to timlot (Reply #6)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:29 AM
OmahaBlueDog (8,851 posts)
7. I'm not sure stocks will rise, but the Dollar will soar
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Gold probably also rises
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #7)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:40 AM
magic59 (429 posts)
12. Gold and silver prices will go negative also
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Strong dollar will depress silver, gold.
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Response to magic59 (Reply #12)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:44 AM
OmahaBlueDog (8,851 posts)
13. I was thinking "flight to safety"
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Last edited Mon May 7, 2012, 12:44 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) However, you may be right. Timlot might also be right about the US stocks. There could be a move into "blue chips" by investors spooked over what is going on in Europe.
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Response to timlot (Reply #6)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:44 AM
magic59 (429 posts)
14. US stocks will follow overseas markets
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They are all one big happy family or unhappy by tomorrow.
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Response to timlot (Reply #6)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:02 AM
elleng (40,520 posts)
17. Over time, as is usually the case.
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:37 AM
magic59 (429 posts)
9. Could be the beginning of a long overdue revolution
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When one party, this time the conservatives, goes too far, gets too greedy for change then a fundamental correction happens and usually over corrects in the other direction. History repeating itself. War has been declared against the banksters and they will use the full power of the stock market and monetary fund to fight back.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:38 AM
Smilo (1,885 posts)
10. It so annoys me that when the people do
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something right the stock markets around the world take umbridge and say they are wrong.
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Response to Smilo (Reply #10)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:04 AM
elleng (40,520 posts)
19. Markets react, up and down, to whatever happens;
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they prefer stability, but that's not life, is it?
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Response to Smilo (Reply #10)
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:49 AM
Tunkamerica (4,353 posts)
31. umbrage? offense taken from some slight, often imagined, insult?
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:03 AM
Odin2005 (48,255 posts)
18. The PTB hate the popular will.
Response to Odin2005 (Reply #18)
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:46 AM
dkf (32,607 posts)
26. Sometimes the populace doesn't understand that there are consequences to getting ones way.
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Of course no one wants their benefits cut, but it may be a better choice than the alternative. The French took the chance, now we will all see where it goes. Obama might be the ultimate casualty if this rips the EU apart.
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Response to dkf (Reply #26)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:15 AM
sendero (25,000 posts)
34. Two countries that told the banksters to pack sand
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.... Iceland and Sweden, recovered nicely in a short time.
The socialized risk privatized profits model benefits nobody but the banksters, that is a fact. |
Response to sendero (Reply #34)
Mon May 7, 2012, 05:45 PM
hack89 (21,244 posts)
52. Iceland borrowed billions from the IMF
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Iceland was a domestic banking failure. They told the Icelandic banks to pack sand. They went hat in hand to beg money from the global financial markets. They also applied for membership in the EU to gain more credibility with the international financial organizations.
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Response to hack89 (Reply #52)
Mon May 7, 2012, 09:35 PM
sendero (25,000 posts)
56. They did...
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.. and they won.
Here's a clue for you. If you are a bank, you are supposed to qualify the borrower. If the borrower tells you to pack sand, blame yourself. |
Response to sendero (Reply #56)
Tue May 8, 2012, 07:56 AM
hack89 (21,244 posts)
62. So implementing IMF austerity measures and raising taxes is winning?
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or is it willingly taking the harsh medicine that Greece doesn't want to take?
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Response to dkf (Reply #26)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:56 AM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
37. Right.. "There Is No Alternative"
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but for the people to accept cuts and mass poverty so that the reckless financial sector can receive a permanent bailout.
No one is buying it any more. |
Response to dkf (Reply #26)
Mon May 7, 2012, 09:10 AM
LeftishBrit (29,611 posts)
41. It's not a better choice if you are poor, elderly, sick or disabled!
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'Sometimes the populace doesn't understand that there are consequences to getting ones way.'
Wow. Hope you didn't mean that the way it sounded; but what you sounded like was a 19th century aristocrat opposing the rise of democracy, because most people don't really know what's good for them! |
Response to dkf (Reply #26)
Mon May 7, 2012, 10:04 PM
Odin2005 (48,255 posts)
58. RW Neo-Liberal talking points.
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it is typical for you Neo-Liberals to call your propaganda the One True Economics and that anyone who questions it is ignorant and/or illogical.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:01 AM
boomerbust (2,158 posts)
32. CNBC should be fun to watch this morning.
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BWAAAA!!!!
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 06:15 AM
OKNancy (29,931 posts)
33. I hope the US market just does a temporary slump
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As others have said, a lot of retirement/ savings are in the US market.
Mine is a private IRA and mutual funds. My husband and I never have received employer based pensions or 401Ks. We saved and did it on our own. So, please stop with the cackling and thinking it's real cool if the market goes down. It hurts everyone. Me, I'm not going to panic. I'm sticking it out. |
Response to OKNancy (Reply #33)
Mon May 7, 2012, 07:00 AM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
38. It's cool for the people who have bought puts with their IRA funds.
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Don't think of it as rooting against you, think of it as rooting for them.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 07:21 AM
leveymg (26,323 posts)
39. OMG! The world is ending! The 1% may have to pay more taxes, and the banks will have to lend to
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middle-class people, again. Oh, boo hoo! Sound of wailing and gnashing of teeth!
Ferrari and yacht builders stock tumble. The end is nigh! |
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 09:24 AM
OKNancy (29,931 posts)
42. Fortunately the Markets seem to be stablizing
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I guess they figure it's not all that bad. Futures are down slightly, but nothing really drastic.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 09:44 AM
grahamhgreen (9,791 posts)
43. ZOMG! Guess they won't get to steal everyone's pensions after all. NT
Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #43)
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:58 PM
harun (9,741 posts)
61. Maybe not in France. Not so optimistic about the U.S.A. pensions.
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Our pensions become worth less everyday they keep printing more fake money.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:56 AM
SOS (7,047 posts)
44. At midday
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Asian stocks down about 2%
European markets up Dow flat Euro down 0.3% Not exactly Armageddon |
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:59 AM
Fearless (12,391 posts)
46. Big Bu$iness realizes that they're fucked.
Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:03 PM
LeftishBrit (29,611 posts)
47. The markets tend to fall temporarily at any significant political change
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I don't think this means long-term doom.
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:17 PM
OKNancy (29,931 posts)
48. Dow, S&P, and Nasdaq all up
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nothing gangbusters, but good news for us small investors
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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)
Mon May 7, 2012, 09:45 PM
jwirr (20,905 posts)
57. Back in the Great Depression the market recognized that there was a very strong socialist
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movement in the USA and they bowed to FDR as their savior. I am kind of laughing after the wins in France, Greece and Italy also moved left in their election. We here on DU complain about having the "vote for the lessor of two evils". I think the rethugs had better look at which way the wind blows and prepare to throw themselves to accept the "lessor of two evils". Or at least that is what they would say about socialism/Obama. I have been flirting with socialism since the 60s so I consider the two a win-win.
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