BREAKING: Joe Biden Endorses Same-Sex Marriage

[jefferson_dem]

Source: TP

Vice President Joe Biden has endorsed same-sex marriage, becoming the highest ranking American official to back marriage for gay and lesbian people. His comments signify a split within the Obama administration and may pave the way for President Obama — who says he supports civil unions and is still evolving on the matter — to also embrace equality.

Biden made his remarks during an appearance on Meet the Press, telling host David Gregory that he is “absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women.” He added, however, that “the President sets the policy” and did not say if he would support marriage in a second term. Biden credited the change-of-heart to the show Will & Grace, which aired on NBC from 1998 to 2006 and featured numerous gay characters:

GREGORY: Have your views evolved?

BIDEN: The good news is that as more and more Americans come to understand what this is all about is a simple proposition. Who do you love? Who do you love and will you be loyal to the person you love? And that’s what people are finding out what all marriages at their root are about. Whether they are marriages of lesbians or gay men or heterosexuals. [...]

GREGORY: You’re comfortable with same-sex marriage now?

BIDEN: Look, I am Vice President of the United States of America. The president sets the policy. I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women and heterosexual men marrying women are entitled to the same exact rights. All the civil rights, all the civil liberties. And quite frankly I don’t see much of a distinction beyond that. [...] I think Will & Grace probably did more to educate the American public than almost anything anybody has done so far. People fear that is different and now they’re beginning to understand.


Watch it:

&feature=player_embedded

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage/

[jefferson_dem]

1. Update (via Axelrod tweet and "clarification" by Biden spokesperson)

Politico notes that a Biden spokesperson has issued this statement: The Vice President “was saying what the President has said previously-that committed and loving same-sex couples deserve the same rights and protections enjoyed by all Americans, and that we oppose any effort to rollback those rights.”

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage/

[DURHAM D]

2. LOL. Pulling Biden back...

[originalpckelly]

4. All I know:

This is big fucking deal.

[DURHAM D]

12. no it isn't

[Voice for Peace]

21. whether it is or isn't it was sweet to read

and Biden's a sweetheart.

[Doc Holliday]

22. How far we've come

when we've reached the point where doing the right thing (or endorsing it, anyway) is a Big Fucking Deal.

If America were evolved socially as we are militarily, this wouldn't even be an issue.

[Bjorn Against]

26. I actually don't see any pulling back here

What Axelrod said in his Tweet is basically exactly what Biden said and he adds that Obama agrees. If you look closely at Biden's statement he does not explicitly say that gay marriage should be legal in all 50 states, he does however make a statement that many people will interpret as support for gay marriage and he no doubt did that intentionally. There have been lots of rumors lately that Obama is going to come out in favor of marriage equality before the election and this could be the administration's first step towards making the announcement. They may be having Biden set the stage for a bigger announcement from Obama in the near future.

[FreeState]

49. Can you show me where Obama has said

He's perfectly fine with men marrying men?

[progressoid]

50. ...

[Bjorn Against]

54. Hate to break it to you but sometimes people step away from the computer

The fact that I did not respond immediately does not mean that I was ignoring the post, it means I was away from the computer. You post a picture of a cricket implying I am ignoring a question, when in fact it is my question that I have posted multiple times in this thread that no one has answered. What part of Axelrod's statement walks back anything Biden said?

[progressoid]

56. The crickets are waiting

for the President to actually come out and say he's perfectly fine with men marrying men etc. As you have said, his position is evolving.

Biden made a clear statement. Then suddenly, everyone is parsing their words. Why can't they just come out and say it what they mean. Either they don't actually believe it, or they are just playing political games. Either way, it's an insult the the LGBT community.

[Bjorn Against]

57. I wish the administration would have spoken up for equality a long time ago as well

I have been highly critical of the administration's stance on marriage equality for some time, when I see a good step in the right direction however I acknowledge that there has been progress made. I don't see any parsing of words in Axelrod's tweet, in fact he says that Biden's words represent precisely the same position as Obama. My hope is that means that Obama is no longer just "evolving" but that he has now evolved. I am waiting for a statement from the President as well, but this hopefully sets the stage for that statement so I think today's statement by Biden should give us hope.

[Bjorn Against]

53. I never claimed he has said that

There have been a lot of rumors that he is going to come out in favor of gay marriage soon however and this seems like a hopeful sign that rumor might be true. He did say he was "evolving" on the issue a while ago so he has been setting the stage for reversing his previous opposition to marriage for some time.

I hope he does come out for gay marriage and this is a hopeful sign to see his VP speak out with the strongest statement in support of gay marriage yet and when his campaign manager comes out and says Obama agrees that is a good sign not a bad sign.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Romney is cornered

And will have to embrace his BACKWARD position. Oh this campaign is going to be fun!!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

52. Can't wait!

[jillan]

16. Biden did say that this was his opinion, the President sets the policy.

I remember when Biden was running for President - he told a lgbt crowd at that time that same-sex marriage will pass when the majority of Americans are ready to accept it and that he felt it was moving in that direction. And he told them to keep pushing for their rights.

I thought at that time that was an honest, open answer.

[alarimer]

25. Axelrod is a spokesweasel

Obama has long been OPPOSED to marriage equality (which is really what we should call it).

Biden is doing a good thing here and Axelrod and the President need to join him.

[INdemo]

29. Biden just lost the Independent and Moderate conservative votes..

[Bjorn Against]

39. No he did not, not all independents are homophobic bigots

Many independents have gay friends and family members, they will be happy to see Biden take this position. It is better to pursue the pro-equality vote than the bigot vote.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. Maybe some of the independents...

but the "moderate" conservative will NEVER vote for a democrat. If we have to stick to the wrong to get votes, then those votes are not worth having.

[harmonicon]

65. And he lost the Klan vote by serving with a black president. (nt)

[Pavlo]

30. Oh Biden don't say that out loud.

What part about a election year do you not understand?
Biden an be a loose cannon at times. The administration should back him up before he shoots off in all directions. Instead they are busy appealing to the family types and then must perform a good amount of spin control to ensure their support.

[MNBrewer]

31. Yeah, teh Gays are toxic for Democrats.

[Bjorn Against]

37. That kind of attitude is what turns so many away from politics

Elections should not keep people from doing the right thing, your suggestion that discrimination against gays is acceptable if it helps us win elections is sickening. If you throw away your principles to win you will never win anything, the best you will get is an elected official who may have a D behind their name but still leads the country in the wrong direction.

[Pavlo]

68. That is the type

of mumble-gook I was addressing in my best sarcastic tone. Obviously I did not do a good job.
The White House should stand up for what they believe and NOT stick their fingers in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. The explanation that "Obama is evolving" on Gay Marriage was down right pathetic and painful to my sensibilities. You my friend are 100% correct principles are important. Biden showed principal, the White House explainers, showed they lacked it.

[Bjorn Against]

69. Thanks for the response, my apologies for not recognizing the sarcasm

[Bjorn Against]

32. Axelrod did just join Biden and said the President agrees as well.

I really do not understand why so many people think Axelrod's Tweet walks back Biden's remarks, he explicitly says that Obama holds the same position as Biden and he never suggests Biden mispoke. I don't see how anyone could claim Axelrod walked Biden back, what I see in his Tweet is an expression of total agreement with what Biden said.

[Vanje]

33. Goddam it

Cowards. Fucking Cowards

[Beacool]

44. I guess that Axelrod, et al. thought that a clarification was in order.

Poor Biden, they are always pulling on his leash.

[dbackjon]

51. Bullshit - that is NOT his position.

Fucking lying Axelrod

[may3rd]

3. Joe's trial balloon ?

Trying to keep his seat on the ticket ?

[JNelson6563]

18. Tin foil hat too tight?

Oy.

[xchrom]

6. Joe knows I vote. Nt

[Vanje]

34. Joe knows we vote. and maybe he has a basic sense of fairness.

but Axelrod does'nt need us, and is an ass.

[xchrom]

35. +1

[Bjorn Against]

41. While I am no huge fan of Axelrod, I can not understand why people are upset about his Tweet

Axelrod's Tweet said that Obama agreed with what Biden said today, nowhere did he suggest Biden misspoke or walk back his words in any way. I can't for the life of me figure out what was wrong with his Tweet, I think it is very encouraging that Biden came out stronger on marriage equality than anyone in the administration has to this point and then Axelrod came out and said Obama agreed.

Axelrod can be an ass in many ways, but his tweet today was a step forward and I can not for the life of me understand why marriage equality supporters would be upset that he came out and said Obama held the same position that Biden just expressed.

[onehandle]

7. So he's definitely out for 2016. On edit: Axelrod says it's the same position as the President.

So, no change.

[DURHAM D]

11. It wasn't the same position when the VP said it but -

Axelrod has "fixed" it. He pulled Joe back as heads exploded in the WH.

I wonder how Biden feels about being "managed" or "handled". Of course, we will never know.

[Bjorn Against]

28. How did he "fix" anything? He said that Obama agreed with Biden's words

Nowhere in Axelrod's Tweet does he pull back anything that Biden says, instead he reinforces it by saying Obama holds the same position. It may well be the case that Axelrod does not say as much as Biden said, but it would be impossible to do so in a Tweet as the character limit prevents you from saying much. The fact that Axelrod said Obama had the same position as Biden is not a sign that they are pulling back.

I personally think this is a big step forward for the administration and my hope is that this is setting the stage for the administration to fully come out in favor of gay marriage.

[Skelly]

62. It was a very clever tweet

It can be 'interpreted' a couple of ways (sort of like a Rorschach test).

Position #1: Biden used the word "marriage". While the President has been vocally supportive of 'civil unions', he has not gone so far to support 'marriage' as anything other than heterosexual. Axelrod's tweet could be seen as 'clarifying' Biden's remark on this point (ie-he is saying both Biden and the Prez are saying gay couples should have all the legal rights as heterosexuals, just not calling it 'marriage'- what some may see as 'pulling Biden in'...."ah folks, he MEANT civil unions&quot . This position will ease those who are FOR equal rights for gay couples, but feel the label 'marriage' should pertain to heterosexual couples only.

Position #2: (which incidentally, was my initial reaction to the tweet) Biden, at least twice, stated HE was for MARRIAGE equality, BUT, the Pres sets the agenda (ie- like the Prez position differs from his). The tweet was to counteract the assumption that the President and Biden hold different views. Notice in the tweet how the word "marriage" is not used? This position was to ease the fears of those who ARE in favor the MARRIAGE EQUALITY..."ah folks, they DO want the same thing". The complete opposite of 'pulling Biden in'....more of a 'wait up, wait up a minute...the Prez wants equal right too'.

JMHO.

[PragmaticLiberal]

8. Just paving the groundwork for what I believe will happen in President Obama's 2nd term.

[tdb63]

9. Biden planting his seeds early?

Biden is like a Bonsai Master, slow, patient, calculated. He'll be slowly pruning his electoral bonsai tree very discreetly and meticulously over the next 3 years. Then Joe won't be so discreet anymore. He will be the blunt, to-the-point, quasi-progressive, outspoken leader we will need.

[harmonicon]

66. I highly doubt that Biden will run for president again.

He would be 74 years old if he took office in 2017, and 78 (or 82) when he left. It's not that I don't think someone that age couldn't do the job, but the man deserves a retirement.

[Laurian]

10. I love Joe, he's a good, good soul.

I know he's a devout Catholic, so it's good to hear him express this view publicly.

[JohnnyLib2]

13. That does seem like a key point

How this plays out across the week will be important IMO.

[HockeyMom]

17. It is a shame that the Catholic Church can't

seem to separate the civil rights issue from their own religous issue. Where marriage equality has passed, they are exempt from marrying gay couples, just like with divorced couples. However, they are still out there trying to overturn these laws.

The public tide is rapidly changing in favor of marriage equality.

[cindyperry2010]

14. I knew I liked Joe for a reason

[shcrane71]

15. You know the tide is changing when the Clintons are

coming out in support of marriage equality. Bill Clinton being one who has encouraged past presidential candidates to oppose marriage equality in order to win elections.

[LonePirate]

19. The speed at which the clarifications and retractions has arrived is quite telling.

The Obama administration is walking a fine line by trying not to offend the bigots. The cowardice on their part speaks volumes about how little they truly care about LGBT Americans.

[mucifer]

20. Axelrod used the word married, not domestic partners.

He said "all married couples deserve the same rights".

So maybe President Obama is changing his position.

From a tactical standpoint you would think he would want gay and lesbian activists knocking on doors for him. We shall see.

[NorthCarolina]

23. I think that was likely just a mistake resulting from a hurried preparation

of the retraction.

[Bjorn Against]

27. There was no retraction, Axelrod said Obama agreed with Biden's words

Biden did not explicitly come out in favor of gay marriage in all 50 states, but he did word things in such a way that people could be led to the conclusion that he believes that and he no doubt did that intentionally. Axelrod's Tweet will also lead people to believe Obama is getting on board with gay marriage. There have been lots of rumors lately that Obama is going to endorse gay marriage before the election and this seems to be setting the stage for that, I think both Biden's words and Axelrod's tweet suggest the rumors are likely true and the administration is about to embrace marriage equality.

[kag]

38. I agree.

I don't see why people keep calling Axelrod's tweet a "retraction." It was nothing of the kind.

[Occulus]

64. Inauguration Day, Prayer Breakfast, "Fierce Advocate", DADT, "marriage should be left to the states"

Gee, I wonder why some of us are taking this statement with a whole salt mine...

[SunSeeker]

59. +1 nt

[MNBrewer]

36. Obama's opinion seems to be that he's not against marriage equality, but he's not for it either

What he's REALLY for is "strong civil unions" which we all know is a non-starter with right wingers, is insufficient from the perspective of GLBT people, and inherently UNEQUAL.

He's essentially taking a very bold stance (if it were 1995).

Marriage equality is the only option that is both legal and acceptable to the GLBT base, in general, IMO.

Now, having said that, I'll still take him at his word, given to Rick Warren at Saddleback Church, that he IS against marriage equality because "God's in the mix".

[fredamae]

24. Are we too dependant upon what

our elected officials Personal feelings are about Anything/Everything? The US Majority should be what he echos, not how confortable He is with this.

Why Now and Not Years Ago?

I'm so tired of what "we the people" want, often times by Huge majorities, being over-ruled because these "people" we elect to represent Us are Consistently shoving their Personal Biases down Our throat unless and until it becomes Politically beneficial for them to do so.

I am a Strong Dem, but I see this as a rampant problem with politicians in general.

[Posteritatis]

43. To be fair, that does cut both ways

"We the people" have wanted and successfully gotten a lot of vile things on the GLBT rights front in the US in the last several years, for instance.

I don't have any idea how to balance the two sides of the issue, but that it's an issue in the first place still sucks.

[fredamae]

47. Exactly! Why was this Ever

politicized? This like so many other matters that are or Should be ones personal private business has been made into a political circus for the sake of politics. Big Govt (More Wars, Environmental Disregard, Tax Breaks For Millionaires/Corps-Intrusions into our Everyday lives, Drs Ofc's, Bedrooms ec) in one hand and Small Govt (Deregulate Everything and Reduce funding for all that we hold dear)in the other. They never explain whether or not tax deductions for the "Little people" will cease.

One can label any issue, frame it the way they want and everyone starts Fighting & Clutching Pearls.

Look how much mileage just this issue has gotton for political purpose over the years and the severe and cruel consequences to Humans Plus society in general, Then you have:
Cannabis Prohibition, Womens Rights, Voting Rights, Minority Rights all seem to "que" the Old Jim Crow/McCarthy BS. "Neither You Nor Your Opinion Count But Be Afraid Anyway" -

See what I mean about "politicizing" issues & trying to walk the fine line of manipulation of Our lives to their own benefit?
Already they are trying to do ?what exactly? I'm not sure-evidently the Dems are afraid We might appreciate their position and support???
"Joe Biden Gay Marriage Reaction: Frustration As Officials Walk Back VP's Same-Sex Marriage Comments" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/06/joe-biden_n_1489670.html

I don't mean to "ramble on" but this crap bugs the Hell out of me-we need to start thinking Past them and calling BS when its BS!

[Botany]

40. This is a big fucking deal

The Joe-man would not have said this w/out the B-man's O.K.

[Beacool]

45. Not necessarily.

Joe often goes off the reservation, but that's what makes him more likable.

[UrbScotty]

42. Now THIS is a big freaking deal!

[NYC Liberal]

46. K&R!

[lib2DaBone]

55. Hey Joe.. raise our credit cards a few more points....

Who Cares what Biden thinks or does? He is basically a do-nothing VP.

I am not a Republican.. but I wish I could find somethig good to say about Biden...?

[Stargazer09]

58. I love this

I'm happy to see that more and more politicians are realizing that human rights are human rights, regardless of sexual orientation.

[Ken Burch]

60. It's a start

We just need to get the prez to trust that those who back common humanity can outvote those who don't.

[BlueIris]

61. Biden finally says something useful.

I'm impressed. Sort of.

[grahamhgreen]

63. Better late then never..... Mr. President

J

[lupulin]

67. who gets their 'change of heart' from

a tv show?

In 1996 Sen. Obama was in favor of same sex marriage. Which way is he 'evolving' if he cannot give a full endorsement now?

[Nye Bevan]

70. I wish Obama would stop contorting himself into a pretzel over this issue,

and just come out unambiguously in support of marriage equality.

[jefferson_dem]

72. That's about to happen...

Methinks.

[Nye Bevan]

73. It seems that you were correct (nt)

[IvanTheRed1233]

71. Thank you Mr. Biden

Now if only the states would pass it