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hue

(4,949 posts)
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:12 PM Jun 2015

10 Commandments statue must be removed from state Capitol, Oklahoma Supreme Court rules

Source: KOCO.com Oklahoma City

OKLAHOMA CITY —The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday that the 10 Commandments statue must be removed from the state Capitol grounds.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court reversed and remanded a previous district court decision.

Stay with KOCO.com for breaking news updates.

Read more: http://www.koco.com/news/10-commandments-statue-must-be-removed-from-state-capitol-oklahoma-supreme-court-rules/33849476?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_campaign=KOCO%205%20News&Content%20Type=Story

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10 Commandments statue must be removed from state Capitol, Oklahoma Supreme Court rules (Original Post) hue Jun 2015 OP
Oh boy....n/t monmouth4 Jun 2015 #1
Good. trusty elf Jun 2015 #2
now for the 'religious freedom' christian persecution ect ect gang riversedge Jun 2015 #8
Yep... trusty elf Jun 2015 #11
I left the Roman church because of that horseshit. 47of74 Jun 2015 #21
Here, Kitty-Kitty. jwirr Jun 2015 #35
That looks like the Astrodome. DamnYankeeInHouston Jun 2015 #52
Just the other day I listened to a program about this very thing Angry Dragon Jun 2015 #54
Records are incomplete do to the technology of the time period happyslug Jun 2015 #87
Hilarious! Christian persecution brought to you by... jalan48 Jun 2015 #65
You're picking on me again because you won't let me combine religion with government Angry Dragon Jun 2015 #57
Excellent pic!! DeeDeeNY Jun 2015 #41
And ... the republicans' bad luck continues ..... cosmicone Jun 2015 #3
But good luck for the USA--that is what matters riversedge Jun 2015 #9
+1 n/t cosmicone Jun 2015 #34
A whole state so stupid they had to ask a court for a decision. It's astounding - from what jtuck004 Jun 2015 #4
Progressive, yes. But only from its founding until ca. 1915 or so AnnetteJacobs Jun 2015 #20
They didn't get a Republican gov until the 60's. It was Democrats jtuck004 Jun 2015 #45
And, of coiuse, all those "progressives" were gathered in the place where they threw jtuck004 Jun 2015 #80
In AL it was the Chief Justice that put up the 10 Commandments bigbrother05 Jun 2015 #64
No law respecting an establishment of. shenmue Jun 2015 #5
It's not that easy in Arkansas Newxtor Jun 2015 #12
What's your point? cyberswede Jun 2015 #19
My point is clear Newxtor Jun 2015 #43
I don't recall saying anything was "easy" cyberswede Jun 2015 #47
I got mixed up Newxtor Jun 2015 #58
Um... eggplant Jun 2015 #49
I didn't reply to the OP Newxtor Jun 2015 #59
Federal laws don't apply to the states? shenmue Jun 2015 #75
Which federal law is that? Newxtor Jun 2015 #77
The Bill of Rights shenmue Jun 2015 #78
You screwed up Newxtor Jun 2015 #79
A teacher you ain't n/t GP6971 Jun 2015 #85
This message was self-deleted by its author Newxtor Jun 2015 #51
Yep shenmue Jun 2015 #76
it's "easy" for people with critical thinking skills Skittles Jun 2015 #86
Enjoy your stay. shenmue Jun 2015 #37
7. “You shall not commit adultery" oberliner Jun 2015 #6
or wear a bad toupee, donald trump rurallib Jun 2015 #61
From the comments: Contrary1 Jun 2015 #7
It's so typical. Damn fools IMO. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2015 #17
Zing! Roland99 Jun 2015 #28
That's your problem now isn't it, Nimrod. Elmer S. E. Dump Jun 2015 #38
And the few Republicans with heads intact CanonRay Jun 2015 #10
With all of the republican heads exploding it's going to be a mess to clean up. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2015 #15
ROFL SoapBox Jun 2015 #27
I'm suspicious. ChazInAz Jun 2015 #13
Knowing Oklahoma and their Don Quixote playing State Attorney General, avebury Jun 2015 #18
You better believe it! AnnetteJacobs Jun 2015 #22
Too bad a state constitution can't preempt the Federal one. Elmer S. E. Dump Jun 2015 #40
What do you mean? Nt Newxtor Jun 2015 #68
If the fed constitution says you can't do A Elmer S. E. Dump Jun 2015 #73
I'm afraid they're trying to agitate the Nutbag voter base ... Myrina Jun 2015 #25
Excellent! What irks me about religious freedom is it means to some a license to RKP5637 Jun 2015 #14
Perfect for this clip I saved from the Malloy Show over a decade ago.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #16
The reich isn't having a good day today, are they? 47of74 Jun 2015 #23
Meanwhile, the asshole governor and AG are meeting to figure out how to go against the OKSC decision kath Jun 2015 #24
Yeah but what are they doing about the Sharia C. H. U. D. s? underpants Jun 2015 #36
If Same Sex Marriage didn't cause heads to explode and... liberal N proud Jun 2015 #26
HOO-RA benld74 Jun 2015 #29
Bingo!! Elmer S. E. Dump Jun 2015 #46
To Squadron DU23> Our plan is working perfectly. BlueJazz Jun 2015 #30
Rats! I wanted to see the Satanist's display perdita9 Jun 2015 #31
I know! Maybe there will be an appeal. tanyev Jun 2015 #67
I Love it amuse bouche Jun 2015 #32
All this good news seems very strange to me.... Chakaconcarne Jun 2015 #33
I say leave it up azureblue Jun 2015 #39
Or better yet, the punishment layed out in the Old Testament! Elmer S. E. Dump Jun 2015 #63
No doubt the locals will be screaming about yuiyoshida Jun 2015 #42
Yum! Turbineguy Jun 2015 #44
Don't let them fool you... SeattleVet Jun 2015 #48
Sounds about right. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #55
Lol Littekat333 Jun 2015 #71
I love this! Keep on, keep on, treading on those snakes!! Sunlei Jun 2015 #50
More re OK 10 commandments with history from Wisconsin Gazette: hue Jun 2015 #53
This will likely make it to the SCOTUS nt Newxtor Jun 2015 #56
I bet that statue came at tax payer expense d_legendary1 Jun 2015 #60
Wrong Newxtor Jun 2015 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author Newxtor Jun 2015 #72
does the FSM have any commandments we can get posted someplace? rurallib Jun 2015 #62
I was reading some of the local comments about the avebury Jun 2015 #66
Good. CharlotteVale Jun 2015 #69
Van Orden v. Rick Perry (2005), USA Supreme Court Newxtor Jun 2015 #74
Maybe they were afraid 2naSalit Jun 2015 #81
Easy fix. Just rename the oil wells that dot the lawn of the capital after each commandment, jtuck004 Jun 2015 #82
Crazyland's gonna be pissed! nt valerief Jun 2015 #83
Just more persecution by a bunch of heathen, COLGATE4 Jun 2015 #84

trusty elf

(7,380 posts)
11. Yep...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:30 PM
Jun 2015

It's a slippery slope!

First they take down the Ten Commandments, then, before you know it.....

[img][/img]

 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
21. I left the Roman church because of that horseshit.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jun 2015

What people who play that card are doing is cheapening the sacrifice of ALL people past and present of ALL faiths who have suffered actual persecution for their religious beliefs.

DamnYankeeInHouston

(1,365 posts)
52. That looks like the Astrodome.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jun 2015

I'm glad they finally figured out something constructive to do with it. Where can I buy tickets?

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
54. Just the other day I listened to a program about this very thing
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jun 2015

and they mentioned that it has been determined that never were any Christians treated to this in the Coliseum.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
87. Records are incomplete do to the technology of the time period
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 11:49 PM
Jun 2015

We are talking of a time period where the writing materials where of two types, Parchment, which was just skins of animals someone did not make into leather, and papyrus, which was only available from Egypt, cheaper then Parchment but did not last in wet climates. Bark was also used for short messages. The records we do have are limited to what someone really wanted to preserve. Books were written, but then used by speakers to tell the stories to audiences. Books were also kept, but only if someone wanted to keep them for later use. Parchment can last for 1000 years, and often kept for centuries after they were written and released time after time to speakers who made a living reading these old books to the public.

My point is we do NOT have any day to day writing like we have today. Printing only occurred in the 1400s due to the introduction of Linen paper in the late 1300s into Europe and the mid east. Linen is cloth, much cheaper material then parchment and cheap enough to be used in books made in mass (thus printing press was invented to use the new linen paper into books).

Pulp paper was invented in 1801 and in wide spread use by the 1830s. Pulp paper actually permitted cheaper books and newspapers. In fact what we call Newspapers are an invention of the 1850s as pulp paper came into general use, prior to pulp papers, newspapers were intended to be kept for months so people could see the ads in the papers. The concept of papers to be printed one day and thrown away that day required pulp paper. You could not do that with linen paper.

In fact public education was only truly possible with pulp paper. Thus in the 1830s you started to see what we would call Public Schools coming into existence. Pulp papers had made books cheap enough for even the poor to buy thus School books could be purchased and used by the students. In the days of Linen paper, only people who could afford expensive books learned to read and write, basically because you could survive quite well without needing to know how to read and write for we are talking about people who barely could afford the clothes on their back, let along spending even more money for books.

Now, that I have gone through the history of the Technology of information up to about 1900 (Computers have made information even cheaper and easier to get today), let go back to the records of the Roman Empire.

In the days of Rome, Parchment was the writing material of choice. Many writers also kept papyrus around for letters not expected to be kept for years. Many people paid others to write letters for them and then send them to relatives and friends, who paid people to read those letters to them. Letters to most people were so rare you can make the argument the learning to read was NOT worth the cost of learning to read in that time period unless you were in the elites who need to exchange ideas and information.

Thus in the days of Rome, what survives tends to be books that later people though worth copying or fragments of other writing that some how survived the last 2000 years.

Now, the people of Rome preferred the Circus to the Coliseum for the races were NOT considered fixed. St Peter is traditionally considered to have been killed in the Circus (part of which the church of St Peter sits on) NOT the Coliseum. It is believed that is where St Paul died (The deaths of St Peter and St Paul is NOT in the bible, where they died and how is by oral tradition written a little bit later then the present gossips and Act of the Apostles).

A further factor was Nero blamed the Christians for the fire of Rome and persecuted them afterward, the Coliseum had NOT yet been built. Thus any executions would have been at the Circus Maximus OR elsewhere in Rome.

In 69 AD, in the year named "The Year of the Four Emperors" Nero was overthrown and killed by his slave, when Galba had marched his army from present day Serbia and Croatia to Rome to over throw Nero. In turn Galba was killed by the Praetorian Guards by Otho, who promised to pay the Praetorian Guards money they believed they had been promised when they help overthrow Nero. Otho in turn was defeated in battle and committed suicide and Vitelius took over as his Army Marched from Gaul.

The problem was the most powerful Roman Army of the Time Period was putting down the Jewish revolt, Vespasian was its commander, he had supported Galba, but had opposed both Otho and Vitelius. He was actually in Egypt taking control of Egypt (and thus the Grain Supply to Rome) when his supporters defeated Vitelius and declared Colosseum sole Emperor.

One of the first things Vespasian did was start building the Roman Colosseum. Unlike the Circus, which always was where any riots or other unrest in Rome started, we have no records of such unrest involving the Colosseum. Once you understand how it was organized you quickly see way. The Colosseum was NOT for the people of Rome, the People of Rome had the Circus, which was much larger, the Colosseum was for the bureaucrats of Rome. It was where they received their orders. The Gladiator fights were entertainment between messages from the Emperor, thus we have people reporting refusing to view the Gladiator fights for they hated them but going to the Colosseum every time it was open. Why? It was where you received your "Email" from the Boss. It was where you saw who was in favor of the Emperor and who was out of favor (by seeing who was sitting where). This was also true of the people around you, each seat was "Reserved" for a single person, and the better seats in your section went to the people who were in favor of your boss, the people in the worse seats were the people out of favor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespasian

It should be noted, that when Constantine build Constantinople, he did several other changes. First he abolished the Praetorian Guards and replaced them with his scholae, a group of Cavalrymen assigned to protect the Emperor. This later came to be a term used to name the people in the retinue of the Emperor and later the pope and bishops. By the ninth Century it had become the modern word "Scholar" that is someone who studies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholae_Palatinae

The Second thing Constantine did was build a Circus, then a Church, then his Palace. The Church and Palace occupied the two highest points in Constantinople. Read elsewhere about the Red Palace and St Sophia. Notice Constantine did NOT build a Colosseum, he relied on the Church to get his messages to his bureaucrats for his Empire was NOT centralized in Rome, but more a modern Nation-State and thus he needed to keep in contact with people from everywhere in the Empire NOT just who controlled Rome.

That was NOT true of Vespasian. Rome was the single largest City in the World (And would remain so till somewhere between 450 and 525 AD, it is unclear when Constantinople past Rome in Population but as late as 405 Rome was still larger). Thus the control over Rome and its Bureaucrats was important to whoever ruled Rome in the First Century. During the Rule of Augustus Caesar (died 14 AD) the Plebeian council still meet.

Since about 287 BC the Plebeian Council had been the equal to the Senate and had the right to make laws independent of the Senate and to try cases. This was one of the powers both Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar wanted. By the time of the Sulla (c 80 BC) the Council had become a place where rich men who were not patricians controlled the law. The poor had lost power to the rich Plebeians. Thus the poor had no way to express their desire, thus full heartily had supported Marius and his reforms (Marius was the Uncle of Julius Caesar), later both Julius and Augustus Caesar. Under both Caesar the Council became a place for bureaucrat within the new Imperial Government meet and interacted and exchanged ideas and received their orders from the Emperor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Marius

The council kept meeting till the Rule of Tiberius when the last meeting of that council was held, confirming what the Plebeian Council had done under Augustus, giving the Emperor the right to do anything the Plebeian council would do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebeian_Council#After_27_BC

Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero all ruled without calling the Plebeian council into session. One of the reasons for the Year of Four Emperors was not only were the Army units NOT talking to each other, neither were the bureaucrats. Thus you had to many people NOT getting on message. This was the problem Vespasian wanted to solve with the Colosseum. It would like when he called his junior officers together to tell them what the plan of battle was to be, but in the case of the Colosseum it was NOT his junior Officers he wanted to tell in one time period, but all of the bureaucrats in Rome (including bureaucrats visiting from outside Rome).

That was the background for the Colosseum, it was built over the location of Nero's Place to show the people of Rome that Nero and the Julio-Claudian Dynasty was no more. T That the Colosseum was for bureaucrats can be see in the seating:

The first tier, called the Podium (meaning place of honor), was reserved for the most important Romans - the Emperor, the Vestal Virgins, the important priests and members of the Roman Government including the Roman Senators. The Podium was like a flat platform, or terrace, measuring 15ft wide

2nd Tier - Maenianum primum: This seating was reserved for the non-senatorial noble class called the Equites, or knights consisting of fourteen rows of stone or marble seats

3rd Tier was originally reserved for ordinary Roman citizens, the plebeians. Seating was then divided into two sections:

Maenianum secundum imum - the better, lower seats for the wealthy plebeians

Maenianum secundum summum - the upper seats for the poor plebeians

4th Tier - Maenianum summum in ligneis: Consisted of steep wooden seats which were set up in the gallery running around the very top wall of the amphitheatre which were added during the reign of Domitian

This would seat common women

Slaves were strictly forbidden from the Colosseum

Standing Room - there was standing room in the top tier and in the aisles

Some groups were banned from the Colosseum including actors, gravediggers and former gladiators

http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/colosseum/seating-at-the-colosseum.htm


Thus you had the Emperor and the Senators all around him

Then members of the Equestrian Order, the ordered favored by the early emperors for they tended to be more honest then the rich of the other two classes.

Then members of the 1% who where NOT Senators or Equestrians. More Bureaucrats of the time period.

The Next level was for "poor Plebeians" i,e, the Bureaucrats who actually did the work, the office help.

The top level were for women. The Article pointed out this was built by Domitian, who was the son of Vespasian. Vespasian barely lived long enough to complete the Colosseum and Domitian's older brother only ruled for two years, thus the Colosseum was still under construction when the woman's galley was added.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domitian

One last comment, woman were part of the Bureaucracy of the Roman Empire, so these seats, while on top, where for these Bureaucrats also to see what was the situation in Rome. Women had NOT been part of the Plebeian Council but had always been around when such council meetings took place. Thus by the time of Domitian it was clear they needed to know what was going on and receive what the Emperor wanted them to know.

Now, the message was not always verbal. Execution were done in the Colosseum, so the Bureaucrats would know who was executed and why (remember we are talking about a time period when Parchment was supreme, which given its price, the Colosseum was cheaper).

Thus could Christians have been executed in the Colosseum? The Answer is yes, but the great persecutions in Rome occurred under Nero, before the Colosseum was built and except for criminals the Emperor wanted the Bureaucrats to see (other Bureaucrats and politicians out of favor with the Emperor) the Circus was where executions took place, for there such executions helped to keep the masses in line.

Thus we may NOT have a record of a Christian being killed in the Colosseum for the Crime of being a Christian. Domitian was succeed by Nerva, who founded the Nerva–Antonine Dynasty which was a series of Adopted Emperors till the Sixth Emperor of that Dynasty, Marcus Aurelius left his son become his heir in 180 AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius

Nerva was succeed by Trajan, who proceeded to expand the Empire to its limit but also is known to tell one of his lieutenants that while the law forbade Christianity, do not look for them and if they come before you and say they are no longer a Christian accept that. I.e. Rome under both the Flavian Dynasty and the Nerva–Antonine were very tolerate as to Christians and unless they had other good reasons to execute a Christian it was NOT done. You had local persecutions but nothing widespread till Diocletian's rule in the late 200s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan

By the time of Diocletian's rule, the Emperors rarely went to Rome preferring to stay with the Army. Even the extend of Diocletian's persecution is suspect (His wife and daughter both ended up being executed for being "Christians" by Licinius after the death of Diocletian):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licinius

Those deaths were before Constantine the Great defeated Lincinius and became sole Emperor and installing the Neo-Flavian Dynasty (yes same family as Vespasian but by 312 Christian).

Thus it is possible no Christians were executed in the Colosseum, except for some other reason (i.e. the Emperor wanted them dead and the fact they were Christian was a perfect excuse). Most Christians, when they would be executed, would be executed at the Circus (or elsewhere) for it was unimportant to the Emperor who saw them die.

On the other hand, the Rich Roman Elite, no matter the class or sex, and the Bureaucrats (no Matter class or sex) would be executed in the Colosseum so their fellow one percenters could see the execution and know WHY they were executed (and it was rarely due to the fact they were Christians, that would be just a convenient excuse).
 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
4. A whole state so stupid they had to ask a court for a decision. It's astounding - from what
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:20 PM
Jun 2015

was historically one of the single most progressive states in the country,

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
45. They didn't get a Republican gov until the 60's. It was Democrats
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:09 PM
Jun 2015

turning over the school buses of the black kids in the 70's,

Even so, it was those same Democrats that built the country's single best vocational school system, copied by a lot of states until actual jobs fell out of favor, to be replaced by credit.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
80. And, of coiuse, all those "progressives" were gathered in the place where they threw
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:24 PM
Jun 2015

away many Native People, those who weren't killed first, to make way for them.

The people, as well as the oil barons, prospered from this, as we all still do, and it is worth remembering on a larger scale.

'Cause maybe when you build a country on this many bodies it can't stand.


bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
64. In AL it was the Chief Justice that put up the 10 Commandments
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jun 2015

He fought the SCOTUS to try and keep it.

So, yes, you sometimes need a court decision.

BTW, that was the same Roy Moore that is now telling the county clerks in AL to not issue marriage licenses.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
19. What's your point?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:52 PM
Jun 2015

And your source is a RW propaganda site.

American Family Association (http://www.afa.net): Donald Wildmon's anti-LGBT, anti-sex media boycott machine, and the sponsor of the OneNewsNow propaganda site.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Webshites

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
43. My point is clear
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:00 PM
Jun 2015

If this were so easy as "separation of church and state", then other states would fail in their quest to erect a 10 commandments monument in their Capitol. But Arkansas had no problem doing it.

Do you still think it's "easy"?

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
47. I don't recall saying anything was "easy"
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jun 2015

And separation of church and state is a major American tenet.

Explain why you chose the source you did. It's a RW horseshit site.

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
58. I got mixed up
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:40 PM
Jun 2015

I'm glad to see you share my counterargument against Sheamus's claim that it's easy. I thought I was replying to Shenmue.

eggplant

(3,908 posts)
49. Um...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jun 2015

...the point of the OP is that Oklahoma just ruled that it was illegal. And OK allowing it was one of the arguments from your post.

But enjoy your stay.

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
59. I didn't reply to the OP
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jun 2015

i replied to Shenmue, who said that the issue of whether religious monuments in state areas are as easy as the separation of church and state.
Separation of church and state is a Federal thing, therefore Shenmue was not simply talking about the fact that it was declared illegal in this state

By the way, the ruling was not that it's illegal. It's that it violates the OK Constitution.

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
77. Which federal law is that?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jun 2015

You might be talking about the Establishment Clause, which the SCOTUS ruled it allows a 10 Commandments monument. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1500.ZO.html

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
79. You screwed up
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:20 PM
Jun 2015

By other realizing that the USA Supreme Court ruled that the Establishment Clause allows a 10 Commandments monument. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1500.ZO.html

Here is my smiley

Response to Newxtor (Reply #43)

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
6. 7. “You shall not commit adultery"
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jun 2015

Something for all those "traditional marriage" folks to reflect on maybe.

Contrary1

(12,629 posts)
7. From the comments:
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:22 PM
Jun 2015

"This is an outrage, I grew up in my school saying the pledge of legence and saying a prayer after words, You are wrong judges"


"*Pledge of Allegiance
*afterwards

You should have spent more time learning grammar and less time saying pledges and talking to your invisible friend in the sky."

ChazInAz

(2,559 posts)
13. I'm suspicious.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jun 2015

Do you think the GOP is desperately trying to give the illusion that it's cleaning up its act prior to the election?

avebury

(10,951 posts)
18. Knowing Oklahoma and their Don Quixote playing State Attorney General,
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jun 2015

I would be really shocked if Oklahoma doesn't pursue this matter in court. Oklahoma is notorious for going to court on unconstitutional issues.

It is not worth their time in court if they are not wasting tax payer dollars on futile issues.

AnnetteJacobs

(142 posts)
22. You better believe it!
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:03 PM
Jun 2015

You can bet your bottom dollar they'll put up a HUGE fight...probably in the form of a state referendum changing the state constitution next November. And it'll pass, too--by 85-15 percent! Neat way to GOTV, eh?

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
73. If the fed constitution says you can't do A
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:05 PM
Jun 2015

The state constitution cannot ignore or override it. Well, they can, but it would be struck down in federal court.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
25. I'm afraid they're trying to agitate the Nutbag voter base ...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jun 2015

... you know they're mighty hopped up and ready to elect Cruz or Walker after last week ... more stuff like this and the Religious War of 2015-2016 will start in earnest.

RKP5637

(67,086 posts)
14. Excellent! What irks me about religious freedom is it means to some a license to
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jun 2015

shove religion in everyone's face! I for one am totally fed up with religion having been thrown in my face since my youth. I saw it for what it was a long time ago, left, and never looked back.

Look at all of the hatefulness in the world and one can often find religion as a root cause. Look at all of the misery religion has inflicted on many in the world. Far too often religion is used as an excuse for hatred and bigotry.

kath

(10,565 posts)
24. Meanwhile, the asshole governor and AG are meeting to figure out how to go against the OKSC decision
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:04 PM
Jun 2015

What a state.

underpants

(182,603 posts)
36. Yeah but what are they doing about the Sharia C. H. U. D. s?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jun 2015

They're out there don't you think they aren't. That's why the OK legislature has passed so many bills about the Sharia. But you know who doesn't care? The Sharia C. H. U. D.s. They started with the earthquakes. Now they have used their subterranean influence to get rid of the 10 Commandments.

liberal N proud

(60,332 posts)
26. If Same Sex Marriage didn't cause heads to explode and...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:16 PM
Jun 2015

If SCOTUS upholding Obamacare didn't make heads explode and if demands to take down the rebel flag didn't make heads explode, this most certainly might!

Conservative heads everywhere:


benld74

(9,901 posts)
29. HOO-RA
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:24 PM
Jun 2015

The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse ...you cannot post

"Thou shalt not steal", "Thou shalt not commit adultery", and "Thou shalt not bear false witness" in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians.

It creates a hostile work environment!!

perdita9

(1,144 posts)
31. Rats! I wanted to see the Satanist's display
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:25 PM
Jun 2015

I might have even flown out there to have my picture taken with it. What a tourist attraction that would have been!!!!

tanyev

(42,515 posts)
67. I know! Maybe there will be an appeal.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jun 2015

I think I read the Satanists' statue would be ready in July.

amuse bouche

(3,657 posts)
32. I Love it
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:33 PM
Jun 2015

I am so sick of religion and its cultists, oozing into government

I've evolved from tolerating it, to loathing it. Go the Fuck away

Chakaconcarne

(2,433 posts)
33. All this good news seems very strange to me....
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:34 PM
Jun 2015

Have weapons manufacturers seen a reduction in sales or WTF is going to offset all this good news?

azureblue

(2,145 posts)
39. I say leave it up
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:54 PM
Jun 2015

and, to prove the conviction of the legislators who wanted this thing, they should sign a pledge that says that, if anyone of them should break any of the Ten, they will be immediate dismissed from office. And all it takes is one lie....

yuiyoshida

(41,818 posts)
42. No doubt the locals will be screaming about
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jun 2015

taking away this item! I wonder if it will lead to torches and pitch forks?

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
48. Don't let them fool you...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jun 2015

I don't think for a minute that this was a decision solely based on constitutional law.

The ONLY reason that they decided this way was to have a way to prevent the 8.5-foot tall statue of Baphomet that was going to be placed next to it, or the monument to the FSM that was also proposed. If they allowed one they would have had to allow them all. Look for a group to find a small piece of 'private' property adjacent to the site that they can use for this monument to one version of the 10 Suggestions.

http://www.vice.com/read/oklahomas-satanic-statue-is-coming-along-nicely

hue

(4,949 posts)
53. More re OK 10 commandments with history from Wisconsin Gazette:
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jun 2015

Oklahoma court: Remove Ten Commandments monument at Capitol

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/trending/oklahoma-court-remove-ten-commandments-monument-at-capitol.html

A Ten Commandments monument on the Oklahoma Capitol grounds is a religious symbol and must be removed because it violates the state's constitutional ban on using public property to benefit a religion, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled on June 30.

Oklahoma's highest court said the Ten Commandments chiseled into the 6-foot-tall granite monument, which was privately funded by a Republican legislator, are "obviously religious in nature and are an integral part of the Jewish and Christian faiths."

The 7-2 ruling overturns a decision by a district court judge who determined the monument could stay.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt had argued that the monument was historical in nature and nearly identical to a Texas monument that was found constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Oklahoma justices said the local monument violated the state's constitution, not the U.S. Constitution.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
60. I bet that statue came at tax payer expense
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jun 2015

Public money shouldn't be used to subsidize anyone's religion, let alone have it near state property.

Response to Newxtor (Reply #70)

avebury

(10,951 posts)
66. I was reading some of the local comments about the
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:28 PM
Jun 2015

decision. Oh my! Talk about a paranoid, ignorant, delusional bunch of people.

I am not surprised at anything I read. I wonder all long it will take before the State Legislature tried to change to Oklahoma Constitution to fix their pesky little problem.

 

Newxtor

(29 posts)
74. Van Orden v. Rick Perry (2005), USA Supreme Court
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:06 PM
Jun 2015
The question here is whether the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment allows the display of a monument inscribed with the Ten Commandments on the Texas State Capitol grounds. We hold that it does.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1500.ZO.html

2naSalit

(86,323 posts)
81. Maybe they were afraid
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:41 PM
Jun 2015

that this

?fit=750%2C1000

was soon to be placed near the "commandments" and that would have made them even more of a laughing stock than they already are.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
82. Easy fix. Just rename the oil wells that dot the lawn of the capital after each commandment,
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jun 2015

and redo the big signs on the side.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
84. Just more persecution by a bunch of heathen,
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jun 2015

unelected judges!!! Sodom and Gomorrah!! 54.40 or Fight! Don't Tread on Me! etc etc etc.

RWers' in OK heads must be exploding about now. A lovely sight!!!

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