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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 09:39 PM Jun 2015

Texas wants its gold back and promises to build it a safe home

Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

AUSTIN, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has a new law to set up a depository for gold that is backed by many in the state's Republican leadership who have expressed distrust of the U.S. Federal Reserve and feel more comfortable with a precious-metal backed currency.

"The law will repatriate $1 billion of gold bullion from New York to Texas," Republican Governor Greg Abbott's office said, adding that the facility would increase "the security and stability of our gold reserves."

The bullion in question is part of a portfolio for a Texas university-linked investment fund, is currently worth about $660 million and is at a private bank in midtown Manhattan, state officials said.

The law for the "Texas Bullion Depository" was signed on June 12, and Texas lawmakers said it would be the first vault of its kind by any state.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/texas-wants-gold-back-promises-build-safe-home-220638896.html

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Texas wants its gold back and promises to build it a safe home (Original Post) Little Tich Jun 2015 OP
People in Texas are flipping crazy. R Merm Jun 2015 #1
Fuck them. onehandle Jun 2015 #2
They just want their gold Travis_0004 Jun 2015 #3
States Rights, right? onehandle Jun 2015 #4
Ummm, noooo. In this case sounds like its actually the states gold assuming I am not misreading it. cstanleytech Jun 2015 #5
another great option! Phlem Jun 2015 #7
Actually, the Fed does not insure the banks. Psephos Jun 2015 #17
Whatever, the point is if texas wants their gold because they are scared then let them cstanleytech Jun 2015 #31
yep. Phlem Jun 2015 #6
It's theirs. Igel Jun 2015 #29
It is not the United States gold. It is Texas gold. hack89 Jun 2015 #24
Figures, if it's not senseless gun lunacy you are defending, Darb Jun 2015 #34
Is there anyway to start fracking around the Texas Border? Phlem Jun 2015 #8
Not cool man! Do the Republicans here happen to be nuttier in Texad? Yes they are, but Dustlawyer Jun 2015 #14
You're right denvine Jun 2015 #15
All states have their Red districts LompocDem Jun 2015 #19
Yes, saw the article Phlem Jun 2015 #16
Persistent DU Mythology kentauros Jun 2015 #32
It's a looneytarian idea that we should return to the gold standard Major Nikon Jun 2015 #9
Because fiat has such a sterling record vs. precious metals, right? Psephos Jun 2015 #18
I'd feel more comfortable with Texas lawmakers who could read the Constitution jmowreader Jun 2015 #10
That clause does NOT apply to the Federal Government. happyslug Jun 2015 #12
When we invode , we will just take it back! Cryptoad Jun 2015 #11
I would not trust Flatpicker Jun 2015 #13
What type of leverage? Igel Jun 2015 #30
Hmmm..... are they 'anticipating' a big event? More info here > Lodestar Jun 2015 #20
I suppose next they'll appoint Glenn Beck as their new state treasurer.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #21
Alex Jones contends the gold no longer exists. It has been sold to Kip Humphrey Jun 2015 #22
you forgot Benghazi egold2604 Jun 2015 #23
There was a law that was enacted in 1978 to reduce America's gold stockpile Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #33
Next - Texas will begin issuing its own currency packman Jun 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author sinkingfeeling Jun 2015 #26
Gone in a New York minute HassleCat Jun 2015 #27
First, repatriate all of your state territory to the nation of the United States of Mexico. Aristus Jun 2015 #28
The gold in question doesn't belong to the State of Texas yellowcanine Jun 2015 #35
our U.S. Federal Reserve should sell off ALL gold while the price is still inflated. Sunlei Jun 2015 #36
The gold arrives in Texas!! Sancho Jun 2015 #37
I don't want the crazies here to have the gold. Texas Blues Jul 2015 #38

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
2. Fuck them.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 09:46 PM
Jun 2015

They can't have the United States' gold. Secede and we'll take back our federal support, infrastructure, and defense.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
5. Ummm, noooo. In this case sounds like its actually the states gold assuming I am not misreading it.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:06 PM
Jun 2015

If thats the case they can have it though the federal government imo should consider making the state of texas insure the banks inside of texas rather than the federal reserve.

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
17. Actually, the Fed does not insure the banks.
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 12:56 AM
Jun 2015

The FDIC does...and it has less than a 2% capital reserve against its liabilities.

Which means it's useless as a bulwark against anything more than a few isolated bank failures. If there is a systemic failure, banks will be "bailed in" through capital controls. I.e., seizure of deposits in exchange for sham IOUs.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
31. Whatever, the point is if texas wants their gold because they are scared then let them
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jun 2015

have it and let them insure the banks inside their state with their own money rather than the feds.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
29. It's theirs.
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:41 AM
Jun 2015

Not just "Texas'" gold, even.

It's University of Texas' gold.

Unless all private gold's been nationalized. Then, unless there are individual limited exemptions I'm going to take the ring off my finger before some fed cuts my finger off to remove it.

Ultimately, if the depository is built, it'll still be the UT investment management company's decision--not the great president, not Congress, not the Fed, not the State of Texas--whether or not to put its gold there.

All the rest is misleading blather.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
34. Figures, if it's not senseless gun lunacy you are defending,
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:22 AM
Jun 2015

then it's thinly veiled secessionist bullshit from the fucking dipshit, conspiratorial, unhinged, Texas asshat coalition.

Not impressed, as per usual.

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
8. Is there anyway to start fracking around the Texas Border?
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:10 PM
Jun 2015

We could then just kick them into the Gulf of Mexico and surround them with oil slick from hell. Wait, they like oil. Fuckers.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
14. Not cool man! Do the Republicans here happen to be nuttier in Texad? Yes they are, but
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:59 PM
Jun 2015

we have some great Democrats here and there are more of us everyday! It takes a lot to overcome Delay's re-districting, but we will. Texas has some of the strictest new voter ID requirements, but we are getting it done. It is never fair to generalize a group of people, especially when there are several millions of people as your group size that you lump as one. Texas cannot turn Blue without thousands of volunteers etc., that are busting their asses that are sick of the secession shit. Ridicule those that stupidly try to threaten secession, but it wouldn't be good to tell this Texan to stop being this American!

denvine

(799 posts)
15. You're right
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 11:22 PM
Jun 2015

It's difficult living in a red state, but there are a lot of red states and there are a lot of good Democrats in those states trying to make a difference. It's OK, in fact encouraged to berate the morons, racists and puppets of the corporations and wealthy but it is not OK to think everyone in that state fits into that dirty little package, in fact it never really is good to generalize. Don't get me wrong, I think the Republicans in Texas are crazier than a loon, but then again I live in Kentucky, where my Senators are Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul. Just for the record, there are a lot of good Democrats here too.

LompocDem

(143 posts)
19. All states have their Red districts
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 01:42 AM
Jun 2015

I live in Northern Santa Barbara County in Lompoc Ca. And yet even in a progressive state, we have to live with the monetary influence and public display of RW a$$holery that Texas has to endure!

I feel your pain!

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
16. Yes, saw the article
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 12:21 AM
Jun 2015

the Austin population is afraid because it's surrounded by Texas. My state is even worse. 2 Democrats voted for the TTP and our Democratic Governor killed medical marijuana for big money. I'd like to kick a piece of Washington into the Puget Sound too! We were blue but I don't know anymore.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
32. Persistent DU Mythology
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jun 2015

Austin is surrounded by several even bluer major cities. Gerrymandered districts, and potential Democratic voters not voting are our biggest voting problems.


Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
9. It's a looneytarian idea that we should return to the gold standard
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:10 PM
Jun 2015

I've even seen some DUers try to float that batshit crazy idea as a good one.

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
18. Because fiat has such a sterling record vs. precious metals, right?
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 01:00 AM
Jun 2015

In a comprehensive examination of 201 fiat currencies from the past, 201 failed.

Precious metals have failed zero times.

Fiat is currency, PMs are money. Ever wonder why it says "Federal Reserve Note" on the top of a dollar bill? Hint: a "note" is an IOU. A FRN is a debt. Debt is not money.

jmowreader

(50,555 posts)
10. I'd feel more comfortable with Texas lawmakers who could read the Constitution
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:11 PM
Jun 2015

"No state shall coin money, issue Letters of Credit, or accept anything but gold or silver coin in payment of debts."

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
12. That clause does NOT apply to the Federal Government.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:37 PM
Jun 2015

Last edited Thu Jun 25, 2015, 11:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Thus the Federal Government can declare anything it wants to be money AND the states have to accept it. See Article 1, section 8:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;


http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Notice the Federal Government has the RIGHT to coin money and regulate the value of Money. The Courts have long ruled that the term "Coin" includes printing money for that had been done during the Revolution and while states are forbidden to do so, se Atricle 1, Section 10:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.


Notice that STATES are forbidden to make anything but gold and silver coin as legal tender, the Federal Government has no such restriction. i.e The Federal Government CAN make anything it wants Legal Tender.

Now, this restriction has been worked around by states in the past. For Example various local government issued paper to its employees during the Great Depression with a promise that such paper would be accepted for payment of taxes. That was clearly issuing non gold or silver money, but these local governments got away with it for the Federal Government did not want to cause further problems in that state during the Great Depression.

http://www.ebhsoc.org/journal/index.php/journal/article/viewFile/6/6

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124846739587579877

It is Constitutional for Private companies can issue paper money, but it is also illegal. i.e the US Constitution does NOT forbid private people from issuing money, but the Federal Government, using its power to regulate money, has made such practice illegal.

Thus Texas can NOT "Coin" money, but it can permit private people to do so if the Federal Government did not make such private minting illegal.

Please note the term "Bills of Credit" was the term used in the late 1700s to mean paper money. Pennsylvania had successfully used paper money from the 1740s till England outlawed it in the 1760s (Franklin called that act the single biggest act that lead to the Revolution). Pennsylvania issued "Bills of Credit" that could later be used to pay taxes. This ability to pay taxes with these "Bills of Credit" made them valuable to common Pennsylvanians given gold and silver coins were hard to come by in the Colonies. Thus the "Bills of Credit" filled in the role of Money till there were outlawed.

Ben Franklin wanted to preserve the ability of the Federal Government to issue such "Bills of Credit" but agreed to forbid the States from doing so on the grounds if the States did so, you could NOT have a uniform currency for all of the United States (That had been a problem during the Revolution, Congress AND every state issued "Bills of Credit" but due the length of the war, the value of the currency fell for each state only wanted its our "Bills of Credits" used to pay taxes due, not any issued by other states OR the Federal Government).

Starting in the 1830s, the State worked around this restriction by have banks issue the paper money as private money and then accepted those private money for payment of taxes. The problem with that system, is each city had its own currency, and if you moved from one city to another you had to find out what currency was used in that other city. On top of this many of these banks decided to NOT honor the money they had printed, or if they did honor them (i.e. accept them in payment) only gave you 50 cents on the dollar. They were shops in all major cities with lists of how much each banks currency was worth, you went to these shops to exchange your money for hopefully better money. It was a problem for anyone moving from city to city. This continued till the Civil War, when Congress decided to issue its own paper money, that money slowly drove out the rest for it could be used anywhere in the US (even in the South). This paper money was discounted against gold and silver, but after 1861 no one saw Gold or Silver Coins (You had paper money issued as low as 3 Cents, for stamps were used as currency during that time period and the 3 cent paper money was designed to replace stamps that some people were using as currency).

After the Civil War, most of the Paper money was slowly withdrawn, but not till the 1870s. As late as 1869 the Federal Government decided to issue the Nickel to replace the Half dime, for the Nickel was mostly copper with 5% nickel, the half dime was 90% silver and as such was being hoarded during that time period. After the Nickel was issued the price of Silver stated to decline in terms of Gold, In 1857 a Silver Dollar had just a little less then $1 dollar in Silver in it. By 1897, the value of that Silver, in terms of Gold, was 55 cents. The Silver content had remained the same, but its value in term of Gold had dropped that much in those 40 years (and this was the reason for the "Free Silver" Campaign of the 1880s and 1890s, Silver dollar coins would have meant inflation to off set the deflation the US had been going through since the 1870s, a deflation driven by a desire to keep the Dollar price high in terms of Gold (i.e. A Dollar was defined as $20 to an ounce of gold, and Congress spend all types of money to keep it at that level, "Free Silver" was an effort to undo that valuation, a valuation most modern economists blame for the Depression the US was in from about 1973 till 1898.

Side note: Free Silver died out as an issue by 1900. The reason for this was Gold had been found in Alaska, South Africa and Australia. The result of all of this new Gold was "Gold Inflation", in terms of gold, prices started to drop, which was the inflation the Free Silver people had been effectively (while saying they were not) advocating for since the 1870s.

Thus by 1900 Gold started to drop. It increased in value in 1914 as every European Country dropped the Gold Standard. Britain tried to return to the Gold Standard in 1926, but even Churchill commented that that move was one of the leading cause of the Great Depression. FDR reduced the value of the US Dollar to $35 an ounce in 1934, and the US kept that till 1971 when Nixon had a choice, the US had the money to fight the war in Vietnam OR kept the dollar at $35 an ounce. The US did not have the money to do both. Since Nixon did not want to end the war in Vietnam, he floated the Dollar, thus there is no legal relationship between the Dollar and gold to this day.

Thus we started with the constitutional provision restricting what states can do, went through a brief history of money in the US since 1787 and ended up with today's dollar, floating in value to both both and all other currencies.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
30. What type of leverage?
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jun 2015

This gives them no leverage. Private gold currently in a private bank already gives them all the leverage they'll get. Which is to say, zip.

TX is thinking about building a place that the private gold owners could put it. If they chose.

That's the stupid part: The UT investment fund managers pay $600k a year for storing it. Unless TX can meet their requirements, nobody'll use the new depository.

The worst that could happen would be TX would make UT funding somehow dependent on what the separate UT management company does. Most universities have their development funds separate from the educational institution just to keep such political actors from chewing through their "seed corn" and savings for short-term political gain at great long-term educational harm.

Lots of people around here haven't had their coffee. Or serotonin.

Lodestar

(2,388 posts)
20. Hmmm..... are they 'anticipating' a big event? More info here >
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 01:54 AM
Jun 2015
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-16/gold-bullion-worth-1-billion-be-%E2%80%9Crepatriated%E2%80%9D-ny-fed-new-texas-bullion-depository

The man who initially drafted this legislation is Rick Cunningham of the Texas Center for Economics, Law, and Policy. Mr. Cunningham is respected and is the Executive Director of the Center, but he is also a magna cum laude graduate of Texas A&M with a degree in Economics, as well as a graduate of the University of Chicago Law School, where he served as associate editor of the Law Review journal.

According to Mr. Cunningham

“this proposal consists of two parts – the “depository” part and the “system” part. The “depository” part … provides simply for hedging the state’s investment risk by allocating a recommended portion of state and local investment assets to physical gold and other precious metals, and housing those metals in a state-operated facility…”
“But the truly game-changing aspect of this proposal … lies in the “system” part. This would be an advanced, state-owned and operated system of electronic payments and settlements, denominated in ounces of precious metals, barred from engaging in lending, leasing, speculative or derivative transactions, and always maintaining a 100% ratio of bullion reserves to account balances. At full scale, not only could it sustain state and local government operations, it could potentially sustain large swaths of the Texas economy, even in the face of a national financial or currency crisis.”

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
22. Alex Jones contends the gold no longer exists. It has been sold to
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 05:11 AM
Jun 2015

A) China
B) Federal Reserve/World Bank/World Monetary Fund/United Nations/Swiss banks (aka, The Ultimate Monied Interests Value pack)
C) The Bilderberg Group/Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Mordor,etc. etc. (aka, The Ultimate "to rule us all" Value pack)
D) Barack Obama
E) Aliens

AND, for an extra $5 you can choose,

F) all of the above

and sold by
A)...
B)...
C)...
D) Barack Obama
E) Aliens
F) Barack Obama and aliens

in order to

A) rule the world
B) destroy the world
C) prepare the world for nutrient harvesting
D) Barack Obama
or
E) all of the above



Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
33. There was a law that was enacted in 1978 to reduce America's gold stockpile
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:07 AM
Jun 2015

by coining gold bullion medals and selling them to collectors and investors. This was the start of the short-lived American Arts gold bullion program. In 1983, the United States coined its first legal tender gold coin since 1933, the $10 LA Olympics commemorative, and since that time has minted dozens of other gold commemorative series (including the current Presidential Wives series), as well as millions of ounces of gold bullion coins since 1986. It might be a fair question to ask where all this gold has come from.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
25. Next - Texas will begin issuing its own currency
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 10:41 AM
Jun 2015

The Big Bar Dollar or Dallas Dinero, to be traded within the borders of the Republic of Texas.

Response to Little Tich (Original post)

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
27. Gone in a New York minute
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 10:46 AM
Jun 2015

That gold would mysteriously disappear in less time than it takes Rick Perry to comb his hair.

Aristus

(66,316 posts)
28. First, repatriate all of your state territory to the nation of the United States of Mexico.
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jun 2015

Do that, and then we'll talk...

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
35. The gold in question doesn't belong to the State of Texas
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 10:37 AM
Jun 2015

It belongs to the University of Texas Investment Management Company. They are under no obligation to store it in Texas, regardless of what the Texas Legislature does.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
36. our U.S. Federal Reserve should sell off ALL gold while the price is still inflated.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jun 2015

we don't need to stockpile a metal with some faked 'value'.

 

Texas Blues

(55 posts)
38. I don't want the crazies here to have the gold.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:20 PM
Jul 2015

Why can't NY just make a law regulating the transfer of gold out of state, and charge a fee, say 50% of the gold's value? That would make Texas keep the gold out of their greedy fingers and if anything happens, we can use the gold to protect US interests, not Texas. Everybody says it's Texas' gold, but to be honest, all wealth belongs to everyone, and gold is no different.

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