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brooklynite

(94,383 posts)
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:47 AM Jun 2015

Clinton Has Dem Bases Loaded

Source: Quinnipiac Polling Institute

Full title: June 18, 2015 - GOP Plays 'Who's On First' In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll Finds; Clinton Has Dem Bases Loaded

On the Democratic side, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is over 50 percent in each state, with a 38-percentage point lead in the closest race, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds. The Swing State Poll focuses on Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania because since 1960 no candidate has won the presidential race without taking at least two of these three states.

...snip...

Hillary Clinton is the choice of 64 percent of Florida Democrats, with 9 percent for Vice President Joseph Biden and 8 percent for U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

...snip...

Clinton leads among buckeye Democrats with 60 percent, with Biden at 13 percent and Sanders at 10 percent.

...snip...

Vice President Biden's credentials as a native son provide little help in Pennsylvania, where he trails Clinton 53 - 15 percent among Democrats, with 10 percent for Sanders.

Read more: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2235



"feel the bern".....
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Clinton Has Dem Bases Loaded (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2015 OP
Tomorrow's Super Friday primaries will be a rout for Hillary MannyGoldstein Jun 2015 #1
Is that before or after the Thursday New Hampshire Primary that Bernie's doing so well in? brooklynite Jun 2015 #2
Kudos to both of you. It's funny rpannier Jun 2015 #4
No kidding... :-( RiverNoord Jun 2015 #14
I'm not a true believer; I'm a hard-bitten data analyst... brooklynite Jun 2015 #20
Well, there you have your subject for reasonable discussion. RiverNoord Jun 2015 #24
Don't forget Thor_MN Jun 2015 #49
Good point. RiverNoord Jun 2015 #50
That is why I modifyied youe words to say "As a responder to a" data analyst. Thor_MN Jun 2015 #58
Everyone has the ability to change that reality, though. Red Knight Jun 2015 #45
It's true that you can't win if you don't try...but it's also possible that you can try and lose brooklynite Jun 2015 #47
There's a poem by Ernest Thayer about being overconfident at the plate. hobbit709 Jun 2015 #3
There will be no joy in Hillville. frylock Jun 2015 #19
Debates decide. joshcryer Jun 2015 #5
Only if Hillary makes a monumental gaffe. DCBob Jun 2015 #35
She will have to take a hard stance on TPP. joshcryer Jun 2015 #44
I doubt she will take a "hard stance" on anything controversial. DCBob Jun 2015 #46
Her strategy: don't offend anyone. nt Beauregard Jun 2015 #56
Yup, just like in '08 corkhead Jun 2015 #51
It will take alot more than that... DCBob Jun 2015 #55
These are strong polling numbers Gothmog Jun 2015 #6
Coming from a person madokie Jun 2015 #34
If only Casey, mighty Casey.... PeteSelman Jun 2015 #7
Its way early brook madokie Jun 2015 #8
Yes, I Feel The Bern. He is gaining ground faster than anyone expected. The Sanders Surge! peacebird Jun 2015 #9
Thank you coyote Jun 2015 #12
Ditto to being screwed without the Bern. SoapBox Jun 2015 #13
Dems voted Obama in because he wouldn't be a status quo cosmicone Jun 2015 #16
Bernie has 40 years of staying the course, Hillary just veered left for politics. I trust Bernie peacebird Jun 2015 #17
That;s complete BS Robbins Jun 2015 #23
You are right that Obama did not come out as progressive as we thought passiveporcupine Jun 2015 #29
Her "stances" were dictated by the wishes of Obama whom she served. cosmicone Jun 2015 #32
I'm not blaming her for her for Obama's positions. passiveporcupine Jun 2015 #33
You don't fully understand do you? madokie Jun 2015 #36
maybe they have Bernie confused with someone else? passiveporcupine Jun 2015 #39
+1 Depaysement Jun 2015 #54
Good poll numbers! leftofcool Jun 2015 #10
But let's play the game anyway dembotoz Jun 2015 #11
I Seem to bump up against that stop all the time lately madokie Jun 2015 #37
Sorry. We're not surrendering our souls to big money for the win. L0oniX Jun 2015 #15
I wish people would read their own material d_legendary1 Jun 2015 #18
Well that decides it for me. HRC is ahead in a poll a year before the first primary and anyone Vincardog Jun 2015 #21
See what they after Iowa and New Hampshire results next year 4dsc Jun 2015 #22
"feel the bern"..... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #25
I chose that specifically... brooklynite Jun 2015 #26
I see... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #27
Good news HassleCat Jun 2015 #28
It is too soon PATRICK Jun 2015 #30
the more you see...the less you like ... quadrature Jun 2015 #31
Tell me which candidate to agree with the ISSUES on? Fearless Jun 2015 #38
C'mon, Bernie! november3rd Jun 2015 #40
Analysis not LBN Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #41
Polling is LBN brooklynite Jun 2015 #42
Support leave. I think polls should be considered on a case by case basis. cbayer Jun 2015 #43
Interesting Biden, an unannounced candidate, leads Bernie in FL, OH and PA. DCBob Jun 2015 #48
For Now - Long Way Till The Primaries cantbeserious Jun 2015 #52
Absolutely -- so we won't be seeing any OPs about how well Bernie is doing in NH? brooklynite Jun 2015 #53
oh yes of course, sounds just like the coronation of 2008 restorefreedom Jun 2015 #57

rpannier

(24,328 posts)
4. Kudos to both of you. It's funny
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 08:00 AM
Jun 2015

Honestly... I don't concern myself a lot with any of the polls in June of the year before the election
It's good both campaigns have something to hang their hats on
In all honesty, I hope O' Malley's numbers pick up as well
I'd like to see a really spirited campaign with a fluid exchange of ideas

As opposed to the Rob Zombie rejects the other party is running

 

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)
14. No kidding... :-(
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 10:16 AM
Jun 2015

So much pointless back and forth on petty crap instead of frank discussions about the differences between the candidates, potential differences in the direction of the Executive if one versus the other is elected, etc.

I would have hoped that this site would be a great place for that kind of robust dialogue. Instead the Clinton/Sanders discussions are carried on mainly by true believers in each camp who are 100% for defending their chosen candidate.

brooklynite

(94,383 posts)
20. I'm not a true believer; I'm a hard-bitten data analyst...
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jun 2015

...and there's no point debating Clinton vs Sanders positions, because I don't oppose either of them; my single problem with Bernie is that I see no realistic path by which he wins a General Election.

 

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)
24. Well, there you have your subject for reasonable discussion.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jun 2015

Issues such as:

1) Which factors, specifically, inform your perspective that Bernie Sanders has no realistic path to General Election victory? Which ones are high-certainty factors and which are more speculative? What assumptions are the factors based on and are there reasonably foreseeable possible events that could affect the levels of certainty for each factor?

2) Which factors, specifically, inform your (implied) perspective that Hillary Clinton has a realistic path to General Election victory? Which ones are high-certainty factors and which are more speculative? What assumptions are the factors based on and are there reasonably foreseeable possible events that could affect the levels of certainty for each factor?

3) Regardless of potential prospects of victory, what are the reasonably foreseeable consequences of either candidate's assumption of the Office of the President of the United States? Are there differences or not? If yes, then, of the range of foreseeable consequences, which ones are better or worse per candidate. What are your metrics for better or worse? If this analysis results in one candidate appearing to be better for the country than the other, should this be factored in to whether a person actively supports one or the other candidate? Not?

As a hard-bitten data analyst, I would expect you to be eager to share these kinds of conclusions with others, and be willing to accept persuasive data that may suggest erroneous conclusions, as we all should.

It's that kind of dialogue I wish we'd see....

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
49. Don't forget
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 09:52 AM
Jun 2015

Issues such as:

1) Which factors, specifically, inform your perspective that Hillary Clinton has no realistic path to General Election victory? Which ones are high-certainty factors and which are more speculative? What assumptions are the factors based on and are there reasonably foreseeable possible events that could affect the levels of certainty for each factor?

2) Which factors, specifically, inform your (implied) perspective that Bernie Sanders has a realistic path to General Election victory? Which ones are high-certainty factors and which are more speculative? What assumptions are the factors based on and are there reasonably foreseeable possible events that could affect the levels of certainty for each factor?

3) Regardless of potential prospects of victory, what are the reasonably foreseeable consequences of either candidate's assumption of the Office of the President of the United States? Are there differences or not? If yes, then, of the range of foreseeable consequences, which ones are better or worse per candidate. What are your metrics for better or worse? If this analysis results in one candidate appearing to be better for the country than the other, should this be factored in to whether a person actively supports one or the other candidate? Not?

As responder to a hard-bitten data analyst, I would expect you to be eager to share these kinds of conclusions with others, and be willing to accept persuasive data that may suggest erroneous conclusions, as we all should.

 

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)
50. Good point.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 11:08 AM
Jun 2015

Although I never claimed to be a hard-bitten data analyst, and was responding to the claim made by another. I made no claims myself, although you seem to imply I did, in my questions, but rather started with a request for clarification of the extensive analysis that was strongly implied by the person I replied to. Well, that person did not respond to my questions, which would have been productive, and you simply turned my questions around on me. So - not really much of a dialogue there, but if you are willing to participate in one, I'll gladly answer your questions, well, my questions, mostly, and hope that we might just see some mature and meaningful dialogue.

I ask that you please keep this in mind - again, I do not claim to be a serious data analyst (and I need to drive several hours to hook up with family for Fathers' day stuff), and my answers will merely be starting points.

1) I don't claim that Hillary Clinton has no realistic path to General Election victory. Period. She has substantial popular support, at least at this point. She also had approximately the same level of popular support 7 years ago but lost the Democratic nomination for the office of the President to Barack Obama, a virtually unknown junior U.S. Senator, who became a two-term President. This strongly suggest to me that a significant extent of her support is somewhat unreliable. I don't know what the extent is, and just how unreliable, but the general conclusion is based on hard facts.
One quite different problem is she has a serious handicap when it comes to policy discussion dealing with past presidents. If she discusses in any way the positives of her husband's presidency, she opens herself up entirely to all of the right-wing propaganda that has been built for years around Hillary-hating. In addition, there is the high probability that she would not have gained any sort of political prominence in the U.S. if her husband had not become the President of the United States. If she attains the Democratic nomination, and ends up running against 'Jeb' Bush, there will be a lot of suppression of discussion of the past, and this may be less of a handicap than otherwise. However, this means that the policies of George Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush will be almost entirely ignored by campaign and party machinery, meaning that the only President whose policies that are fair game for discussion are those of Barack Obama. 'Jeb' Bush was not formally involved in his brother's government. Hillary Clinton, however, was very much involved in Obama's. Al Gore learned the lesson of distancing himself from his very active involvement as Vice President in the prior president's administration by (sort of) losing the General Election to George W. Bush. Will Hillary Clinton be able to use her experience as Secretary of State (during which she was involved in more high-profile failures than successes) in any positive way? That is a wild card. Ultimately, it seems to me, that her primary asset in such a scenario is a 'cult of personality'-type following, not based on past political successes, but rather on less tangible substance, and, if that is the case, it may be very unreliable.

Also, the right-wing propaganda machine has demonized her for years, with great success among much of the Republican core constituency. There are a great many Americans who absolutely won't vote for her, not because of her party affiliation, but because of the simple fact, in their minds, that she is evil incarnate. That's how deep it goes.

I don't claim to have a 'data analyst's' capacity to evaluate with great accuracy the degrees of certainty of the effect of these factors with respect to what happens on the day of the General Election, and I'm pressed for time, but I'd be grateful for others' perspectives on the prospective magnitude of these factors and whether they are positives or negatives.

Well, crap - I've got to go, and there's much more that I would discuss on question one if I had the time, but I'll have to pick it up in a couple of days. Also, please note that I did not imply that Bernie Sanders had a realistic path to General election victory by asking the questions I did. I was directly responding to someone else's strong assertion that he did not with a request for why he/she held that perspective. It may be that he does have such a 'realistic path,' and it may be that he does not. I'll put some of my thoughts on that out there for analysis shortly, then I hope to have time to address question three properly.

Fair Enough?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
58. That is why I modifyied youe words to say "As a responder to a" data analyst.
Sun Jun 21, 2015, 07:51 AM
Jun 2015

My point is was that way too many here are claiming one one outcome is possible. It's entirely too soon to say that single issues will make or break a candidate. For all we know, the eventual nominee hasn't entered the race yet.






Red Knight

(704 posts)
45. Everyone has the ability to change that reality, though.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 06:26 AM
Jun 2015

If, on the other hand you vote for her because, it's "inevitable" she'll win you've just helped fulfill your own prophecy. It's the primary--not the general election. In the GE I'll vote for Hillary because I'll be voting against someone. In the primary I'm voting FOR someone and to me--it's the guy with the voting record that backs up his words and a man who truly has stood for the middle class. And who doesn't have those Wall Street connections.

brooklynite

(94,383 posts)
47. It's true that you can't win if you don't try...but it's also possible that you can try and lose
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 09:02 AM
Jun 2015

I've worked for enough candidates who've won the Primary and lost the General, and giving the Republicans an opportunity to get back into power is a risk I'm not willing to take. If you can't offer me a convincing scenario whereby Sanders wins a national election with an electorate that's far more conservative that his supporters in the Primary, I'll stick with Clinton.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
44. She will have to take a hard stance on TPP.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 05:02 AM
Jun 2015

Because she doesn't want to distance herself from Obama, she wants to channel Obama. So she will come out for TPP once the particulars are known, which should be around the first debate or at most second debate. She can skirt it maybe if the thing still hasn't passed in August/September, but the October/November debates it's sure to have passed.

That will give Sanders his opening. And it's going to be a good one.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
46. I doubt she will take a "hard stance" on anything controversial.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 07:21 AM
Jun 2015

She doesn't need to.. she can easily cruise to victory with nuanced answers to all the tough issues.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
55. It will take alot more than that...
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jun 2015

especially considering there is no Barack Obama type candidate running this time.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
34. Coming from a person
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:43 PM
Jun 2015

who has been running for the white house since '93. Not bad for her.
Thats a lot of years too.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
9. Yes, I Feel The Bern. He is gaining ground faster than anyone expected. The Sanders Surge!
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 09:00 AM
Jun 2015

Clinton has money and the DNC behind her. She may yet win, and while better than any of the R clown car, she would be status quo, more of the same economic policies with some nice candy on social policies thrown in to appease progressives.
What we need is change of economic policies, change inthe WallStreet and bank rules, change in tax law, change in economic priorities. I don't see any change there from Hillary.
So yes, I Feel THe Bern, and will do everything I can to spread his message and help him win, because without him we are royally screwed.

 

coyote

(1,561 posts)
12. Thank you
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 09:03 AM
Jun 2015

Couldn't of said it any better. Clinton represents the status quo...and the status quo has been screwing we the people for a very long time.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
13. Ditto to being screwed without the Bern.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 09:10 AM
Jun 2015

It amazes me that there are supposed to be so many Democrats, that just want to continue with supporting the Banksters, Billionaires and War Hawks...oh ya

Turd Way Dems.

Nope...no more of that garbage.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
16. Dems voted Obama in because he wouldn't be a status quo
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 10:38 AM
Jun 2015

Quelle surprise!!!

Sanders will do the same ... move to the right if he got elected and leaving all the supporters weeping like Obama did.

Clinton is WYSIWYG and will probably rule from much further to the left than Bernie on social and employment issues.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
17. Bernie has 40 years of staying the course, Hillary just veered left for politics. I trust Bernie
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 10:45 AM
Jun 2015

And I do not trust DLC/DNC/thirdway/corporatist/wall$treeters to have the best interest of the middle class at heart

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
23. That;s complete BS
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jun 2015

Benrie more to right while hillary would move to left.that's delsional.

Bernie has the liberal record while she has centrist record.she will move further to right than obama did.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
29. You are right that Obama did not come out as progressive as we thought
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 05:04 PM
Jun 2015

He is a polished speaker, and maybe he would have been further left if not having to fight an immovable congress...but he was more centrist than his campaign speeches sounded. I still like him, but am disappointed in his thinking he needed to compromise with a far right leaning congress. It turns out he really was a centrist on many issues. At least he hasn't dragged us into another full-blown war.

Where you are coming up with Clinton as a leftist who will not shift back to the right just has me flummoxed. Everything she has done in the past has been centrist to right leaning centrist regarding economy and foreign affairs. Even her social stance has been pretty centrist (except for women's issues) until this campaign. And even in this campaign, she did not start leaning left until Bernie started making waves.

Everything Bernie has done in the past has been progressive social democrat, in all regards. He is not ruled by money or power and wants to get money out of politics. He is blunt and honest and speaks and fights for what he believes and stands for. He will not change. His promises may not be kept (because of blocking in congress), but he will fight tooth and nail for them.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
32. Her "stances" were dictated by the wishes of Obama whom she served.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jun 2015

SOS doesn't set foreign policy - only implements what the POTUS wants. Blaming her for Obama's positions is not fair.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
33. I'm not blaming her for her for Obama's positions.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:30 PM
Jun 2015

I'm blaming her for her own positions since she became FLOTUS and before. She is no leftist.

edited to say I've been researching her voting and speech history and I will admit she is leftist on most social issues. I just wish she was on economic issues and trade and war and homeland security..

madokie

(51,076 posts)
36. You don't fully understand do you?
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:46 PM
Jun 2015

this is fall down funny, yes, comedy gold.
"Clinton is WYSIWYG and will probably rule from much further to the left than Bernie on social and employment issues." LOLOL

dembotoz

(16,785 posts)
11. But let's play the game anyway
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 09:02 AM
Jun 2015

Seen to many grand slams that never happened when the batter strikes out

Not that I am saying hrc will or should or I want her to strike out


Damn

Try so hard not to offend that a post turns to drivel

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
18. I wish people would read their own material
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 11:16 AM
Jun 2015

From Quinnipiac PDF:

31. (Split Sample) Is your opinion of Bernied Sanders favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?


FL OH PA
Favorable 26% 34% 29%

Unfavorable 14% 15% 16%

Hvn't hrd enough 59% 52% 54%

Refused 1% - 1%


Mike O'Malley's numbers are 72%, 75%, 70% Haven't heard enough about O'Malley. This is more of a name recognition poll than actual data since the same thing happened with some dark complected Senator from Illinois:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1113

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1177

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1204

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1215

This is the chronological order of Quinnipiac saying Clinton dominates, Clinton losing to Giuliani, Obama-Clinton dream ticket, McCain is surging ahead, and finally Obama's "yes we can" moment for those who are too lazy to read the links.

In other words this poll is bullshit.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
21. Well that decides it for me. HRC is ahead in a poll a year before the first primary and anyone
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:22 PM
Jun 2015

Else should just bow to her inevitableness.


NOT, Sanders is right on all the policies.
HRC and all the rest of the monied elites' pet politicians can cry all the way to the loser's bench.

 

4dsc

(5,787 posts)
22. See what they after Iowa and New Hampshire results next year
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:39 PM
Jun 2015

This will mean nothing if Hillary loses the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
25. "feel the bern".....
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jun 2015

Nice swipe there...

Let's see Bernie has been running for what, six weeks? Your gal has been running for what, eight years since the last time she submarined...?

Get back to me in a couple more months slugger...

brooklynite

(94,383 posts)
26. I chose that specifically...
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jun 2015

...since I was told that Bernie's poll numbers in New Hampshire meant the jig was up for Hillary.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
28. Good news
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jun 2015

Good news for Clinton, because it looks like she can relax and hold back during the primaries, then bring out the big guns against Jeb Bush in the general. Bad news for me, because I support Sanders. I think, also, bad news for the Democratic Party, because we would all benefit from a more exciting primary where the candidates engaged each other in intelligent discussion. We need to show the voters the contrast between our party and their... well, whatever it is, and a lively primary would be a good way to do that.

PATRICK

(12,228 posts)
30. It is too soon
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jun 2015

for anything to be good news or particularly bad. The real argument is whether what must happen will happen. First, in a real searching primary contest will people find out about Sanders AND recognize his unique offering of a critical genuine platform the other candidates refuse(have always refused) to endorse or act upon.

For that to happen people have to begin sifting through the lame fame and disingenuous hype and discover that A) someone I believe in and B) will do necessary public service the others simply will not even entertain. If only charism and youth can get them over the hump there is O'Mally as well. It also has to trump the loyalties of the women voters and other organizations.

Hillary also has to collapse a little like all front runners. So anyone supporting their candidate has to make them and what they stand for known and fiercely followed. A healthy primary for an unhealthy party organization. Anyone thinking this is a one person on one person match is ignoring where the people wish to go, what must actually be accomplished.

And yes too early for either the cynic or the rational idealist. The hard logic at the present snapshot is still all Hillary, actually one of the canniest frontrunners we have ever had considering she has all the weaknesses of that entitlement. Faint praise considering what happens to most Dem early frontrunners.

 

november3rd

(1,113 posts)
40. C'mon, Bernie!
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 01:22 AM
Jun 2015

Even a population as challenged as Pennsylvania is going to wake up to the fact that Bernie Sanders is the only winning choice for Democrats in 2016. Clinton is too vulnerable.


cbayer

(146,218 posts)
43. Support leave. I think polls should be considered on a case by case basis.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 09:56 AM
Jun 2015

This one seems reputable and important.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
48. Interesting Biden, an unannounced candidate, leads Bernie in FL, OH and PA.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jun 2015

Bernie seems to have burned out.

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