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Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:45 AM

Exclusive: Senate probe finds little evidence of effective 'torture'

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A nearly three-year-long investigation by Senate Intelligence Committee Democrats is expected to find there is little evidence the harsh "enhanced interrogation techniques" the CIA used on high-value prisoners produced counter-terrorism breakthroughs.

People familiar with the inquiry said committee investigators, who have been poring over records from the administration of President George W. Bush, believe they do not substantiate claims by some Bush supporters that the harsh interrogations led to counter-terrorism coups.

The backers of such techniques, which include "water-boarding," sleep deprivation and other practices critics call torture, maintain they have led to the disruption of major terror plots and the capture of al Qaeda leaders.

One official said investigators found "no evidence" such enhanced interrogations played "any significant role" in the years-long intelligence operations which led to the discovery and killing of Osama bin Laden last May by U.S. Navy SEALs.

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-congress-torturebre83q07j-20120426,0,7459648.story

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:15 AM

1. "Counter-terrorism" is a wildly misused word, isn't it?

Still doesn't seem possible this has been going on, this ancient evil ceremony of actual hatred, and direct terrorism, not "counter-terrorism."

It's just not the way any of us were taught to see this government as children, in any of our school-room yarns about our birthplace.

It's about time the government made honest people of our grade school teachers, and the books thrust at us as young impressionable, un-knowledgeable students.

What's the chance the real government position will ever change on torture, anyway? We should have evolved beyond this hundreds of years ago already.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:20 AM

8. Yep.

Clearly, the most effective counter-terrorism measure would be a change in the direction of U.S. foreign policy. Those who seek to attack us, have never been shy about stating their reasons. Maintaining global hegemony at the expense of millions throughout the world, tends to piss a lot of people off. Frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more terrorism directed at the United States.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

2. So the Salem Witch Trials and the Spanish inquisition proved the existence of witches.

If torture works then there are witches among us. The Salem Witch Trials and the Spanish inquisition made people tell the truth. I think not.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 10:17 AM

3. You know what is effective?

The Obama administration's squelching of any torture investigation, either here or abroad.

That's effective.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:49 PM

13. You've got that right. But I don't think that we're supposed to notice.

 

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 10:23 AM

4. It should never have been about effectiveness, but about it being a crime against humanity

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 10:40 AM

5. Adding one data point to ten thousand years of knowledge. Torture is terrorism, nothing more or less

 

No one has ever claimed SERIOUSLY (i.e. to people in power, not to the ignorant public) that one gets good information from torture. Anyone smart enough to need information knows better. The others know perfectly well what they're doing.

The police, for example, have a set of techniques for getting information out of people that work pretty well (they may not be legal or constitutional either, but that's a different matter). On the other hand, they reserve torture for oppressing minorities, because it's not how they get effective information.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 10:57 AM

6. Well those were some colossally misplaced quotes. nt

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:00 AM

7. Gee, but the last line makes it sound counterproductive, not just ineffective.

"Some U.S. counter-terrorism officials have acknowledged that in he years after the September 11 attacks, U.S. agencies were overwhelmed with bogus tips about possible plots and attacks."

Why?

Because what they gleaned off their torturing efforts turned out to be MORE FALSE than what turned out to be true.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:14 PM

9. So even the bad excuse for these crimes against humanity doesn't hold up

It will be at least until 2017 before we can get an investigation into this, though.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:18 PM

10. Cheney will have a heart attack over this. Not that we didn't know this, experts have said

this for years. But Cheney insists, and lies to back himself up, that torture is good and that it is effective, no matter how many people who actually know what they are talking about, have to say. He needs to keep believing this because he is scared that one day, as has happened to other war criminals, he may have to answer for his role in the US Torture Program.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see him all over TV attempting to discredit this study.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:09 PM

11. We know that!

What we WANT to know is when you are going to prosecute for war crimes?

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:28 PM

12. No shit.

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