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Omaha Steve

(99,576 posts)
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 10:40 PM Feb 2015

Ohio girl, 11, charged with murder in 2-month-old's death

Source: AP

By MARK GILLISPIE

CLEVELAND (AP) — An 11-year-old suburban girl has been charged with murder in the beating death of a 2-month-old who was staying overnight with her and her mother to give the baby's mom a break.

The 11-year-old, her mother and the baby girl, Zuri Whitehead, were on a couch downstairs when the mother fell asleep at about 3 a.m. Friday, Wickliffe police Chief Randy Ice said at a news conference Monday. The mother was awakened less than an hour later by her daughter, who was holding the badly injured infant. Ice said the 11-year-old took the infant upstairs. When she returned downstairs, the infant was bleeding and her head was badly swollen, he said.

The 11-year-old's mother immediately called 911, Ice said. Zuri was flown to a children's trauma center in Cleveland, where she died.

The mother of the 11-year-old and Zuri's mother, Trina Whitehead, have known each other for five or six years but aren't related, Ice said. Trina Whitehead has three other children and had the girl's mother keep Zuri, of Cleveland, overnight to give her a breather.

FULL story at link.


Lake County Juvenile Court Judge Karen Lawson, back, tells an 11-year-old girl her rights on Monday, Feb. 9, 2015 in Painesville, Ohio. Police say the 11-year-old girl has been charged with murder in the beating death of a 2-month-old who was staying overnight with the girl and her mother to give the baby's mom a break. A juvenile judge entered a not guilty plea for the girl on Monday. She remains in the Lake County juvenile detention center and will receive a competency evaluation. (AP Photo/The News Herald, Duncan Scott)

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a7d21112b83d4b2b9f4e8f61ad456bcf/ohio-girl-11-charged-murder-death-2-month-old

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Ohio girl, 11, charged with murder in 2-month-old's death (Original Post) Omaha Steve Feb 2015 OP
... shenmue Feb 2015 #1
Geez! 2 months old. misterhighwasted Feb 2015 #2
If I were the attorney, the first thing I would do...block the mother from any decisions made msanthrope Feb 2015 #3
The first thing I would do is ask what happened. rug Feb 2015 #4
No--the first thing I would do is protect my client. My 11 year old client may not be able to msanthrope Feb 2015 #5
That's why you ask. The answer will provide the answer. rug Feb 2015 #6
Um, no. No. You would not ask a compromised client what happened. You would msanthrope Feb 2015 #8
You wouldn't even see your client until he or she was in custody. rug Feb 2015 #11
First and foremost, I would delay arraignment until my client got medical attention. msanthrope Feb 2015 #13
Medical attention for prisoners is always safer under court supervision than police supervision. rug Feb 2015 #14
Yes--you can delay arraignment. I've done it. msanthrope Feb 2015 #15
For how long? rug Feb 2015 #19
It depends on the state you are in--I've delayed arraignment for weeks. msanthrope Feb 2015 #20
I've had some success in delaying arrests, but once the complaint is filed in court, we're off! rug Feb 2015 #24
You think it's easy for 11 year olds to talk about serious subjects with strangers? n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #9
It's a lot easier to talk to her laywer bound by confidentiality than to a forensic examiner. rug Feb 2015 #12
realistically, cab67 Feb 2015 #16
Yeah, by far most do. rug Feb 2015 #18
Have you done juvenile law? What you say about confidentiality is somewhat different for juveniles. msanthrope Feb 2015 #21
Yes, in NY and PA. The attorney-client privilege with juveniles is just as strong as with adults. rug Feb 2015 #22
In theory, yes....but in practice, with parents involved in a child's defense, the privilege is msanthrope Feb 2015 #25
I always make a point of telling the clients to say nothing about the case to anyone. rug Feb 2015 #27
As it should be....w/all parties involved. jaysunb Feb 2015 #26
And "what just occurred"? rug Feb 2015 #28
Yup. Exactly. n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #31
The judge tells the kid her rights. Hoppy Feb 2015 #7
This is horrid. The 11 year old needs help desperately. greatlaurel Feb 2015 #10
Let's just thank god that she'd CANNOT be tried as an adult. Laffy Kat Feb 2015 #23
So very true. greatlaurel Feb 2015 #30
Yet another nail Vic Tree Feb 2015 #17
I can't help but womder if the mother did it and the 11 year old confessed because she would patricia92243 Feb 2015 #29
The mother knew the kid will be picked up soon, so even if she was angry she would hold it in. McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #32
I thought the same Mojorabbit Feb 2015 #33
The back part of the brain, which is the first of the membranes to "close" jtuck004 Feb 2015 #34
Am I the only one who thought "why does anyone need a break from a 2 mo old?" riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #35
2 months can be peak colic time - and a new hedgehog Feb 2015 #36
Frankly, I am appalled by the impetus to bury the mother. sybylla Feb 2015 #38
Oh ffs. riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #39
I Believe RobinA Feb 2015 #40
that is heartbreaking - I cannot imagine how this little girl will ever live a normal life ever Douglas Carpenter Feb 2015 #37
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
3. If I were the attorney, the first thing I would do...block the mother from any decisions made
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 10:46 PM
Feb 2015

regarding the 11 year old. I would want a guardian ad litem, and serious psychiatric help for this 11 year old....

The narrative stinks....it really does.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
5. No--the first thing I would do is protect my client. My 11 year old client may not be able to
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 10:54 PM
Feb 2015

tell me what happened.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
8. Um, no. No. You would not ask a compromised client what happened. You would
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:04 PM
Feb 2015

secure their safety, first, and make sure they are being protected. You would secure the process to get evidence.

But you would not ask your client for a narrative until they were well enough to do so.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
11. You wouldn't even see your client until he or she was in custody.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:21 PM
Feb 2015

How exactly would you ensure his or her safety? The police don't have to do a damn thing no matter what you say.

The time to ensure your client's safety is at the arraignment when, based on your interview of the client, you can ask the court to order all sorts of things including protective custody, medical attention and, as here, a competency examination.

On the other hand, if you ask what happened, you may to your surprise discover you have a factually innocent client. There were three people there: the infant, the juvenile, and the mother. One's dead, the other's charged and about to be questioned by a psychiatrist or psychologist who will report to both the court and the prosecution, and the mother who could be arrested or sued or both depending on the outcome of this case.

This girl needs Johnny Cochran first, Dorothea Dix second.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
13. First and foremost, I would delay arraignment until my client got medical attention.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:28 PM
Feb 2015

Second, I wouldn't be able to interview my client....because she needs medical attention.

Third....regardless of whether or not I had a factually innocent client, the mother is the prime person I am investigating.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
14. Medical attention for prisoners is always safer under court supervision than police supervision.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:37 PM
Feb 2015

And you can't delay the arraignment; the court must exercise jurisdiction promptly. That's why they have hospital arraignments.

Why on earth would you assume she needs medical attention? The article mentions nothing about physical injuries.

A lawyer in a case like this cannot assume the client is both guilty and crazy.

If he or she is, you'll know it soon enough and move on to Plan B. But, geez, the representation has to start with some questions and not assumptions.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
15. Yes--you can delay arraignment. I've done it.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:41 PM
Feb 2015

Of course she needs medical attention. She's 11. The experience has been traumatic.

As a lawyer, I would assume nothing.

There's no rush to arraignment....the smart move here is to block the mother from any and all contact.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
19. For how long?
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:57 PM
Feb 2015

I've done dozens of hospital arraignments because delays are exceedingly rare and for exceedingly short times.

The trauma, of the arrest if not a murder, isn't amenable to quick treatment beyond drugs, which is not the best state of mind for a defendant being arraigned on murder charges.

What happened here is typical. The charges were read, the court entered a not guilty plea, assumed jurisdiction of the case and the defendant, and ordered a competency exam to see if she was competent to proceed. If she is deemed incompetent, the arraignment is not voided on that basis, or for suspicion of mental trauma.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
20. It depends on the state you are in--I've delayed arraignment for weeks.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:11 AM
Feb 2015

I've delayed consultation with my client for weeks. It depends on what the circumstances are.

The main person I am investigating is the mother...that's who I want to interview, before she lawyers up....because the narrative here stinks.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
24. I've had some success in delaying arrests, but once the complaint is filed in court, we're off!
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:26 AM
Feb 2015

The judge cold issue an order of protection barring the mother from contacting the child.

Who knows? The mother may be innocent, the child guilty, but yeah, she's the key witness.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
12. It's a lot easier to talk to her laywer bound by confidentiality than to a forensic examiner.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:23 PM
Feb 2015

It's also a lot smarter. Her lawyer should make it easier.

cab67

(2,992 posts)
16. realistically,
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:42 PM
Feb 2015

how much of a difference will it make for an 11-year-old girl? Do 11-year-olds really understand confidentiality?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
18. Yeah, by far most do.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:48 PM
Feb 2015

"I can not tell anyone what you tell me. Not your mother, not your father, not your teacher. Not the judge. My only job is to help you through this."

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
21. Have you done juvenile law? What you say about confidentiality is somewhat different for juveniles.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:13 AM
Feb 2015
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
22. Yes, in NY and PA. The attorney-client privilege with juveniles is just as strong as with adults.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:21 AM
Feb 2015

In Family Court New York moved from assigning attorneys as guardians ad litem to assigning them as attorneys for the child.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
25. In theory, yes....but in practice, with parents involved in a child's defense, the privilege is
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:26 AM
Feb 2015

nominal.

I'd block the mother from being involved. But hell....I stopped doing juvenile law because of the parents, not the kids.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
27. I always make a point of telling the clients to say nothing about the case to anyone.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:33 AM
Feb 2015

I tell them, not even your mother because she can be subpoenaed to repeat it.

I also tell them to say nothing to me if anyone else is in the room because there is no privilege there.

With my client's permission, I'll share discovery and police reports with the parents so they know the basis of the charges, There's a big difference between revealing what the police say and what your client says.

jaysunb

(11,856 posts)
26. As it should be....w/all parties involved.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:32 AM
Feb 2015
Wickliffe police have investigated the 11-year-old girl two times prior to this incident, according to Ice. The previous reports came from Wickliffe Middle School, and were not violent in nature.

The girl does not suffer from any mental problems, Ice said. She's being evaluated by mental health professionals at the detention center.

The police chief said he's not sure whether the girl fully understands what happened.

"She knew that something was wrong, but I don't think she appreciates the gravity of what just occurred," Ice said.


http://www.cleveland.com/wickliffe/index.ssf/2015/02/11-year-old_wickliffe_girl_acc.html#incart_m-rpt-1
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
28. And "what just occurred"?
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:35 AM
Feb 2015

They should not, and do not, hear that from the mouth of the juvenile defendant.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
7. The judge tells the kid her rights.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:04 PM
Feb 2015

Does an 11 y.o. have any idea about the meaning of what the judge said?

Instead, the judge should issue an order to prohibit any interrogation.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
10. This is horrid. The 11 year old needs help desperately.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 11:14 PM
Feb 2015

All that budget slashing by John Kasich is coming home to roost. The child protective services and mental health services here in Ohio budgets have been cut to the point of having little or no help to the mentally ill or the abused/abusers. Ohio is very well into third world territory and going down fast. Metropolitan Cleveland had an infant mortality rate of 12.9 deaths per 1,000 live births 2012. This is perfectly acceptable with the Ohio GOP. It is OK for these children to die after birth.

This story needs to be investigated very thoroughly. The 11 year old probably needs to be in some sort of protection with a court appointed representative to look out for her best interests. Oh my heavens, this is beyond tragedy.

Laffy Kat

(16,376 posts)
23. Let's just thank god that she'd CANNOT be tried as an adult.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:23 AM
Feb 2015

Just can't understand why ANY system would try ANY child as an adult.

patricia92243

(12,595 posts)
29. I can't help but womder if the mother did it and the 11 year old confessed because she would
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 12:55 AM
Feb 2015

get more leniency than the mother. It just seems odd that a kid that young would beat a child to death. I would think you had to be pretty strong to beat a child to death.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
32. The mother knew the kid will be picked up soon, so even if she was angry she would hold it in.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 02:20 AM
Feb 2015

The 11 year old on the other hand would not have any impulse control nor would she know how fragile a newborn is. I seriously doubt it was the mom. Also she had to do was call her friend and say "Pick her up."

Bit surprised no one has suggested that if the 2 month old was armed, she could have defended herself. I thought guns were going to make all our problems go away.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
34. The back part of the brain, which is the first of the membranes to "close"
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 09:56 AM
Feb 2015

in the skull after birth iirc, may not have even closed yet.

11 year old easily has enough strength, especially with the leverage of a weapon, or just the extra leverage from swinging the body.

Whatever may have influenced her reasons for being that angry and out of touch may also contribute to even more strength being applied.



 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
35. Am I the only one who thought "why does anyone need a break from a 2 mo old?"
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 10:06 AM
Feb 2015

At that stage, I was still nursing and wildly smitten. Nobody could have prised my kids away for any reason.

Such a sad story

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
36. 2 months can be peak colic time - and a new
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 10:10 AM
Feb 2015

mother can be exhausted and need some rest. I nursed all my kids, but this child may have been bottle fed.

sybylla

(8,507 posts)
38. Frankly, I am appalled by the impetus to bury the mother.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 01:21 PM
Feb 2015

While I am thrilled that raising your babies wasn't the brain-crushing, heart-rending chore it proves to be for so many. It has nothing to do with the fact that this mother left her baby in the care of people she trusted.

Your reaction smacks of the worst kind of arrogant woman-splaining that is so commom among a certain corp of mothers who think they are on some special pedistal from which they can judge. It's hard enough in this world being a mother (especially a new mother) without this class of woman breathing down your neck 24/7.

We do not know the circumstances of the mother, whether she had other support in the household, the quality of that relationship, if the baby had health issues that demanded more care than normal.

My bigger point is that none of that matters; it's the equivalent of asking a rape victim what she was wearing.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
39. Oh ffs.
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 02:39 PM
Feb 2015

That's bullshit. I've been very forthright about the troubles with my one daughter. I've never put myself on a parenting pedestal at all. No, my kids were not colicky but my niece was probably the worst relentlessly colicky baby ever so I've seen that life very intimately (my sister lives in the same town) and her baby and mine are a year apart.

I just simply couldn't imagine needing a break from my baby at two months... yet. Oh certainly later but two months old seems very quick to need a breather from parenting for a night.

One thing is right about your post however. We certainly don't know the whole story.

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