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Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:16 AM

DO NOT REMAIN SILENT

Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:55 PM - Edit history (2)



Do not remain silent.

Conservatives certainly will not speak out.

They will blame the lone, solitary, shooter...

They will blame liberal society...

They will blame anything and everything but modern-day conservatism, which preaches that liberals and democrats are the bona fide enemies of America and threats to the nation's very existence.

Only the most naive or apologetic of political observers could doubt that different right-wing conservatives would deal with the perceived threat liberals and democrats pose to them in different ways, and that some would, inevitably, resort to violence.

And as long as that is the case, as long as liberals and democrats are "the enemy" the bodies will continue to pile up.

And that leaves it to us to speak up.

We need not mince words - it is vital that we speak clearly and succinctly and firmly. We will not debate the issue; We are now making a demand: Conservatism must evolve.

It MUST change.

To believe otherwise is to help pass around the nails for the coffin in which the next liberal democrat will be buried in.

No one was out there speaking about the radical right-wing elements that threaten our civil society until Janet Napolitano issued a DHS report warning about extremists that might resort to violence - a report which conservatives across the country demanded to be immediately rescinded. Now that we have seen a series of right-wing assassinations take place, the original DHS report looks, in hindsight, to have been very timely and prescient.

We have seen Jim David Adkisson open fire upon the congregation of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church with a sawed-off shotgun, killing two, simply because he opposed the all-inclusive nature of the church, and of the church's liberal teachings. Adkisson wrote in a letter which he assumed would be his last, "I thought I’d do something good for this country — kill Democrats ‘til (sic) the cops kill me.” His hatred for his fellow Americans could not be contained: “Liberals are a pest like termites, millions of them … the only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets, kill them where they gather.”

James von Brunn, a radical right-winger from Maryland sought to turn the nation's Holocaust Museum into a symbol for his particular brand of racism, when he went there with the intent to kill blacks and Jews, as an example to the rest of white America to emulate. Luckily for those visitors inside of the museum, the first man von Brunn decided to open fire upon was a black man who had the ability to return the favor, and so no one besides than the very heroic Stephen T. Johns died that day.

Shawna Forde, and two other members of the anti-immigrant Minutman group which she founded, the ''Minutemen American Defense,'' decided that one way to finance her burgeoning organization was to dress up as law enforcement agents, and to rob Mexican immigrants. When Shawna and her compatriots illegally entered the home of Raul Flores, and demanded money, the head of the family ordered the trio to leave, prompting the radical right-wingers to put a bullet into the head of little 9 year old Brisenia Flores, and into the head of her father. Unluckily for the conservative killers, Brisenia's mother was able to barricade herself in her bedroom, where she kept a handgun, and she was able to keep at bay her would be assassins until the real police arrived.

Richard Poplawski opened fire on police officers during a domestic disturbance call, in April of 2009, killing three of them.

Why?

The 23 year-old right-winger feared that the President was poised to take away his hand guns.

Just a few days after that shoot-out, two sheriff’s deputies in northern Florida were shot and killed by Joshua Cartwright who later was fatally shot by other deputies. The reason, according to Cartright's wife, was because Joshua "believed that the US Government was conspiring against him," and, according to her, he had been severely disturbed that Barack Obama had been elected President.

The list of victims from right-wing terror does not stop there.

Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, Arkansa Democratic Party Chairman Bill Gwatney, abortion provider Dr. George Tiller...

It goes on, and on: All of Eric Rudolph's many victims... followed by all of Timothy McVeigh's many more... the pre-eminent liberal leaders of the 1960's: JFK, RFK, and MLK Jr.

The list of liberal victims slain by conservative terrorists is LONG, and getting longer with each passing day that we remain silent.

For conservatives to hide blood-thirsty radicals within their ranks and to deny any responsibility in fostering the radicals bloodthirsty behavior doesn't help the conservative lobbyists attain their political aims and goals...

It, instead, helps the conservative terrorists attain theirs.

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Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply DO NOT REMAIN SILENT (Original post)
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 OP
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #1
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #3
ananda Jul 2012 #23
oldhippydude Jul 2012 #40
Jessy169 Jul 2012 #74
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #75
Dreamer Tatum Jul 2012 #41
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #90
Jessy169 Jul 2012 #70
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #71
soccer1 Jul 2012 #72
emilyg Jul 2012 #76
catnhatnh Jul 2012 #4
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #5
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #7
Zalatix Jul 2012 #13
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #17
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #60
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #62
Zoeisright Jul 2012 #66
sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #64
lunasun Jul 2012 #78
Tumbulu Jul 2012 #81
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #83
Tumbulu Jul 2012 #91
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #6
chervilant Jul 2012 #42
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #63
redqueen Jul 2012 #73
geckosfeet Jul 2012 #8
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #10
geckosfeet Jul 2012 #52
barbtries Jul 2012 #24
Walk away Jul 2012 #28
malaise Jul 2012 #2
bluedigger Jul 2012 #9
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #11
Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #12
Zalatix Jul 2012 #14
Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #16
MikeCanadian Jul 2012 #61
Zalatix Jul 2012 #86
emilyg Jul 2012 #77
Zalatix Jul 2012 #87
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #15
Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #18
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #19
Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #22
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #26
Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #30
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #33
barbtries Jul 2012 #20
slackmaster Jul 2012 #21
ananda Jul 2012 #25
slackmaster Jul 2012 #34
Inkfreak Jul 2012 #49
heaven05 Jul 2012 #27
freshwest Jul 2012 #59
sendero Jul 2012 #29
hfojvt Jul 2012 #31
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #32
bluedigger Jul 2012 #35
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #36
bluedigger Jul 2012 #44
HopeHoops Jul 2012 #37
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #38
HopeHoops Jul 2012 #45
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #65
HopeHoops Jul 2012 #89
findrskeep Jul 2012 #39
JDPriestly Jul 2012 #47
ancianita Jul 2012 #53
ironman25 Jul 2012 #43
JDPriestly Jul 2012 #46
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #69
datasuspect Jul 2012 #48
TNLib Jul 2012 #50
Lint Head Jul 2012 #51
Daniel537 Jul 2012 #54
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #68
Larry Ogg Jul 2012 #55
down is up Jul 2012 #56
Marcia Brady Jul 2012 #57
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #67
freshwest Jul 2012 #58
Zax2me Jul 2012 #79
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #80
Tumbulu Jul 2012 #82
Skip Intro Jul 2012 #84
OneAngryDemocrat Jul 2012 #85
Tumbulu Jul 2012 #92
tomp Jul 2012 #88

Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:20 AM

1. We don't know that politics had anything to do with this incident. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:27 AM

3. And I Am Posting Assuming That Politics DID...

And I am posting assuming that politics DID have something to do with the shooter's motive.

Am I jumping the shark?

Maybe.

But I think the LONG list of political assassinations and attempted political assassinations perpetrated by conservatives against their liberal neighbors is justification enough to make the assumption that Holmes' motivation was, indeed, political.

A) Holmes was a gun nut.

B) Holmes came from a San Diego Congressional district that has NEVER voted democrat.

C) Rush Limbaugh condemned "The Dark Knight Rises" film as a liberal conspiracy vs. Romney days before the massacre.

D) Holmes had a four-year college degree but was working at McDonalds... which very well could make the man mad at the Preident's handling of the economy.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on whether they want, or should, chime in on the matter so soon after the event - and I have decided to go ahead and post.

If I'm wrong, I have egg on my face.

And I can live with egg on my face.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:10 AM

23. I can live with egg on my face.

But it c o u l d be me or someone I care about who dies at the hand
of some gun nut incited by rightwing hatetalk.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:32 AM

40. B) Holmes came from a San Diego Congressional district that has NEVER voted democrat.

this is how the right wing uses our name... we are the Democratic Party... sorry when i see that its a red flag to me..

on the question of jumping the shark... it appears the "gun nut" activity was something rather recent, acquisitions going back only a couple of months..

from his accumulation of guns ammo and body armour etc, this indicates a level of planning, not being pushed by Rush..

very early in the investigation, someone posted information linking someone with a similar name associated with the Colorado Tea Party... proven to be a different person..

another note... his age puts him in a different demographic than most right wingers, while not "proof".. in absence of definitive proof it again points to mental illness rather than ideology

i must admit that i too wanted to link this to right wingers, but upon closer examination realized its more a case of mental illness than ideology..


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Response to oldhippydude (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:47 PM

74. More a case of mental illness?

I worked for three years in a very busy county psychiatric hospital for three years while I was working my way through college. I was in the insurance/records department, and worked night shift. Many nights, listening to the psychotics upstairs screaming, banging the padded cells and wrestling with their straight jackets, I had plenty of time to read through the many thousands of psychiatric intake records, notes and diagnoses that the on-duty psychiatrists themselves had written. In my three years there, I read probably a thousand psychiatric histories and write-ups, which all included a standard questionaire. Let me tell you something that I learned about truly insane people, which is "probably" what we will find is the case with Holmes.

Fact: A huge percentage of truly insane people were severely abused as children -- sexual and/or physical abuse.

Fact: An equally huge percentage of truly insane people come from families that are DEVOUTLY Christian. Mental distress often leads people directly to the "escape" that Christianity promises, there is no other polite way to put it.

Fact: A majority of the really crazy people whose charts I read had both -- early childhood physical/sexual abuse AND devoutly Christian surroundings.

Holmes came from a "Christian" family, it has been reported. Chances are very good, given what we know, that his parents were just as Republican as they are Christian.

What does this prove? Nothing. But from my point of view, the probabilities are very high that Holmes has carried the unresolved weight of childhood sexual and physical trauma to the point where the hatred and anger exploded inside of him and out onto the innocents that he targeted in his blind misdirected rage.

We may never know the truth. But given my background, you'll understand why I strongly suspect that Holmes was at the least acting as an extension of the hatred and anger that one or more Republican Christian extremists inflicted on him at an early age. And we may yet find out that his hatred was motivated by what we all recognize on the surface as pure right-wing lunacy, which would be no surprise at all.


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Response to Jessy169 (Reply #74)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:03 PM

75. And I work at a prison...

My guess is that this fucker thought it was him against the world, and he decided that he was going to take on all five billion of us.

That adversarial view of the world isn't a mental illness, even if it is inaccurate. It is a siege mentality that is fostered by radical right-wing philosophy.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:39 AM

41. The facts have bukkaked your face with egg. nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #41)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 11:14 AM

90. What an Amazingly Mature Response!

I can't wait until summer vacation ends.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:56 PM

70. You are rational to jump to your conclusion

We have a bloody string of mass shootings by right-wing whackos. Death threats against Obama up 400% over the previous administration. The one recognizeable common theme unifying the Republican party is a poisonous mix of greed, anger and hatred. Right-wing whacko posters on Yahoo and other message boards frequently reference the need to do away with the "evil" liberals. We even have Republican politicians insinuating and joking about shooting Democrats. And more...

It is perfectly reasonable to "jump the shark" and assume that it this is just another rabid right-winger who's brain has popped from the expanding pressure of all the lies and fear and hatred. The long string of right-wing whacko mass shootings certainly have set the example and shown the crazies how it is done.

Holmes may not have set out to do his dastardly deed with a political motivation. Regardless, the forces of evil have gathered under the Republican Party banner. Evil is evil, and we know where evil has set up shop these days. In my opinion, there is no way possible that right-wing lunacy did NOT play a part in this horrible act, either directly or indirectly -- no way.

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Response to Jessy169 (Reply #70)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:05 PM

71. Well Said!

For those who prefer to bury their heads in the sand... those folks who think that the overwhelming majority of political assassinations targeting liberal democrats are mere coincindence and NOT a consequence of the politics of the right: I really don't have that much time for you.

I've wasted too much time arguing with all the Tea Bagger ass kissers, here, already.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:20 PM

72. How do we know Holme's was a gun nut?

From what I've read, he purchased all the guns he used from May thru June. Guns were his weapons of choice used to murder people. We don't know that he had a particular fascination with them prior to preparing for his homicidal rampage. He had a 4 year degree but was doing poorly in grad school and he dropped out. Maybe he was severely depressed? If this were a politically motivated killing, I would think he would have gone after a politician(s). He killed people in a movie theater. Maybe he had a fascination with the "Joker"......maybe he thought he was the "Joker"....maybe the chemicals in his brain are scrambled...don't know. But I don't think this was a poetical statement....just my opinion, of course.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:48 PM

76. I don't think so. His mind got

 

sick - very sick.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:28 AM

4. True...

I suppose that's why the OP doesn't refer to "this incident" (mass murder committed with multiple "legal" firearms).

K&R

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Response to catnhatnh (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:32 AM

5. But he's using the incident as a sprinboard for the stop-the-guns and gun culture argument.

Whether he mentions it or not.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:34 AM

7. No...

I posted this because right-wingers are an existential threat to their liberal neighbors. I personally think that democrats should be armed to the teeth: there's just too many blood-thirsty conservatives out there.

I find it amazing, Honeycombe8, that you can criticize me for trying to apply a political motive to the Aurora shooter's rampage, but not see the inherent hypocrisy by also attempting to apply a political motive to ME, for posting the damn thing.

But, hey! This is America!

Hypocrisy isn't a crime.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:55 AM

13. I certainly see your point about the hypocrisy.

 

As for being armed to the teeth, perhaps they should also be very well-trained.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:03 AM

17. I Agree 100%

I certainly don't want to trade in a slew of dangerous right-wing gun-nuts for a slew of dangerous left-wing gun-nuts.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 06:42 PM

60. I didn't apply a political motive to you. Who was the one who chose to post a political post about

gun control two days after a gun mass shooting? No, that wasn't me. That was you.

Then you try to say, oh it has nothing to do with that story that 99% of the posts in this forum are consumed with. I just happened, by coincidence, to post a post on gun control.

Your readers are not stupid. You are trying to link a political motive with the mass shooting, when there has been none shown yet.

All I merely did was point out to you that the mass shooting that EVERYONE is talking about is not politically related, that we know of (yet). Why you would get offended by that, I don't know.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #60)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:38 PM

62. Now You Are a Liar As Well As A Hypocrite...

"But he's using the incident as a sprinboard for the stop-the-guns and gun culture argument..."

I call that ascribing a political motive. What do you call it?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #60)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:13 PM

66. Yes you did.

You said the "stop the guns culture" which is most certainly political.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:48 PM

64. And what about all the other incidents he mentioned? Are you saying that the far right does NOT

hate, with a passion, anyone they perceive to be on the 'left' and that some of them have not put that hatred into deadly action?

I am sick of hearing their rabid hatred and agree with the OP, that it is way past time to demand that their Political Party, rather than fueling the hatred, as Palin did eg, either condemns it or takes responsibility for the results of it.

We had a guest visiting from Europe a while ago and she was listening to the radio late at night in her room and was so shocked by what she heard, she was tuned to a rightwing talk show, that she was in tears. We have become too apathetic about this poisonous hate that permeates the society and yes, it is time to call it out and marginalize it as most civilized societies do.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #64)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:09 AM

78. it is time to call it out and marginalize it as most civilized societies do.

that is true the vile talk is now mainstream no shame and accepted by our society

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #64)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:36 AM

81. I agree- it is not free speech

it is hate speech and needs to not be on the public airwaves!

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #81)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:40 AM

83. If and When...

If and when it becomes clear that James Holmes' motivation was, in fact, political, and that right-wing hate speech was, in fact, the inspiration for this crime, I will personally lead a mob up to the nearest radio station broadcasting Rush Limbaugh's conservative bullshit, and stay there until they remove him from their programming.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #83)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:55 PM

91. I dream of this myself

but no one seems to pay any attention to it. They act as though it is nothing....that people can just ignore it.....they do not understand how deeply this stuff can go inside one's mind if one is susceptible to this sort of propaganda.

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Response to catnhatnh (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:33 AM

6. Believe me...

When we finally "know" the shooter's motive, I'll edit my post appropriately. I originally wrote this piece back in 2009, and have been steadily adding to it ever since.

Someone I know has suggested that I go ahead and write a book detailing all of the right-wing murders committed against democrats, begining with the Atlanta abortion clinic/Olympics bombings - someday I may very well go ahead and do it.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:43 AM

42. Durn...

(I am left with the impression that some DUers thrive on naysaying, and finding fault with others' posts just because they can...)

Please do write that book. Also, in case you haven't read this, consider Richard Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:40 PM

63. It's Not Paranoia...

It's not paranoia if theyt really are out to get you.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:38 PM

73. +1

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:44 AM

8. Ahhh, but politics does have something to do with it. The politics of pressuring politicians

into inaction and inability to enact any type of legislation that may prevent these types of horrible crimes. They are afraid to speak up because of the threat of not being elected. They are threatened with negative campaign ads from the nra and their army. This is politics.

But of course you meant that the shooter has not declared his politics.

I would suggest that simply by taking up arms against and slaughtering innocent people he has declared his politics. The politics of hate, fear, terror, firearms, desperation, death and destruction. That much is clear - is it not? And this man did not grow his politics in a vacuum. He is a seemingly intelligent, educated, well off suburban kid who had many of the social and cultural advantages we aspire to provide and make available in our country.

Aside - I find your use of the word "incident" both interesting and disgusting. Calling this an "incident" sterilizes and cleanses it of the sickness that it is. Mass killings are not "incidents". They are criminal acts. Crimes against all people. It could happen anywhere to anyone.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:50 AM

10. Calm down...

My use of the word was deliberately sterile. If the Aurora shooter's motive was to wreck havoc following Limbaugh's tirade against the movie, then the mass killing was political assassination and/or genocide.

If it was the act of a crazy person, then "murder" wouldn't be applicable, either.

Not if you believe that the insane are incapable of determining right from wrong, that is - which I do.

That's why I was intentionally vague in describing what happened the other night, and omitted mentioning it at all in my original post.

We don't know enough about this particular "incident" to call it what it is, other than a tragedy, but my post wasn't about a tragedy... I was writing about the threat right-wingers pose to their neighbors.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 01:11 PM

52. Well he did create havoc. No one is sure why - yet, but it is clear that he drank deeply from

the cup of firearms culture. He was well armed, had ballistic armor, gas canisters and had some sense of tactics. His apartment is booby trapped. For someone who started buying his weapons 6 months ago, he learned fairly quickly how to slaughter a lot of people very efficiently. He is a very smart but very troubled person. Perhaps he is insane. Perhaps despondent. Perhaps funded and motivated by a shadowy group. Perhaps he was motivated by Rush Limpballs. No one but the shooter knows - yet.

I would call it murder regardless of his mental status. His mental status really does not change the act for me.

Not all right wingers are gun nutz. Not all left wingers are anti-gun. I consider myself a fairly radical liberal and I own several. And I am certain that there is a way to stop these atrocities without banning all firearms.


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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:11 AM

24. an excellent point.

it could be said that almost all gun deaths are political when you consider the NRA's role in getting deadly weapons into the hands of unstable people.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:28 AM

28. He was using legally obtained guns. Therefore, politics had everything to do with this shooting. nt

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:23 AM

2. Good post

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:50 AM

9. I'm not sure what the opposite of "Disaster Capitalism" is, but you exploit it well. n/t

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:54 AM

11. Just Ringing the Bell...

Someone has to.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:54 AM

12. So you think we *shouldn't* blame the shooter?

 

They will blame the lone, solitary, shooter...

That's who everyone should be blaming.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:56 AM

14. We need to blame the rhetoric that inspired this shooting, too.

 

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:02 AM

16. I wasn't aware that evidence had coming out showing the shooter was inspired by someone's rhetoric.

 

Links, please?

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:05 PM

61. By rhetoric do you mean the Batman movies themselves?

 

Considering he was dressed as the Joker and claimed to be the Joker to police it sounds like that's what inspired this shooting.

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Response to MikeCanadian (Reply #61)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 03:16 AM

86. Actually, he was dressed as Bain. He CLAIMED to be the Joker.

 

He might have been inspired by Limbaugh's comments about Batman.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:51 PM

77. Perhaps there wasn't any.

 

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Response to emilyg (Reply #77)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 03:16 AM

87. I think Limbaugh could have inspired him, but you could be correct, too.

 

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:58 AM

15. Only if He's Nuts...

Only if the man is insane, which I don't think he is. We've heard nothing about any history of mental illness.

I stand by my previous response where I thought that the Aurora Massacre was politically motivated, and thereby making James Holmes and Timothy McVeigh the worst of all American political assassins.

We should know for sure, soon enoough.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:03 AM

18. Do you have evidence for this assertion?

 



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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:07 AM

19. Read the whole thread, Johnny...

I don't care too much to talk in circles. I made it clear in one of the comments above this one that I thought the crime was politically motivated, and I'm sticking to it until evidence is brought forth that says otherwise. If you want to sit on your hands until more is known, bully for you: That's your choice.

I do not want to wait, and I did not wait.

There's an established history of right-wing conservative crimes against liberal democrats. Hell! I didn't mention Oklahoma, the father/son bank robbers, the Hutterites in Michigan... and dozens of other right-wing political assassinations that I could have mentioned.

If I'm wrong about Aurora, so be it.

I'll still be able to sleep at night.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:10 AM

22. In other words it's a blind assertion, not backed up by evidence. Got it.

 

I'm not saying that it couldn't have been politically motivated, but to assert that it simply is in the absence of evidence is just silly.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:14 AM

26. Blind? Nope...

All the ingredients are there. I mentioned them in comment #3, way up there at the top of this thread.

You think otherwise? You think I'm wrong? Wonderful! Great! Terrific!

I either got a good grasp on things, and you're banging your head against a wall, or I don't have a good grasp on things, and you can jump up and down in triumph on the hill you've staked out as the "moral high ground" for waiting for the full details.

We'll know soon enough, won't we?

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:35 AM

30. I'll be the first to admit it if the evidence crops up.

 

As yet, it hasn't.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:53 AM

33. Operative Word...

The operative word is "yet".

I'm a big boy, and can admit when I'm wrong.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:08 AM

20. excellent read.

i hope it goes beyond DU.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:08 AM

21. All the whining and hand-wringing won't prevent zombie attacks

 

I'll keep my firearms.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:11 AM

25. The ONLY thing a gun is designed to do is kill.

nt

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Response to ananda (Reply #25)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:00 AM

34. Some things need to be killed

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:02 PM

49. Ha!

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:27 AM

27. why

why I think you have a valid point! This happens over and over and over and it's always some lone nut. I beginning NOT to think that.There's something rotten in this society and it truly points to hate generated by violent radio, submissive MSM and a too compliant populace not outraged by the mean, mean spirit of some of our elected officials from the local level all the way to Washington that makes people like this shooter think that 2nd amendment solutions is the only way to voice displeasure with his/her society. We must find the outrage in ourselves at actions such as this and vociferously shout it to the heaven and our elected officials.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:44 PM

59. Conservatives have shredded the conscience of Americans, savaging all living things, then laugh.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:28 AM

29. There is certainly....

.... a lot of supposition going on here. I guess I'm as guilty as everyone else, I'm pretty sure this kid is insane in the clinical meaning of the word but we really don't know much yet.

My reasoning is pretty simple - if it were someone at a dead end in life, then I would be tempted to assume it was political. Striking back at the society that failed him.

But he wasn't. He was well on his way to a lucrative and prestigous career. So I have to assume schizophrenia or the like.

And here is the part that drives people crazy. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. You can bitch about guns which is about as silly as bitching about cars they are NOT GOING AWAY.

And you can rail about poor mental health care. But really, if this kid didn't get any care nobody is.

I am in favor of gun rights. That does not mean I am against reasonable reforms and restrictions, for example more control over private sales (which did not figure in to this incident at all as far as I can tell) and I agree there is no reason for a civilian to have a 100 round magazine, although there are already so many of them out there a law isn't really going to do anything.

Things like this make all of us sick but the temptation to get on a soap box and declare that we could "fix it" with this or that law is frankly stupid. No, you can't and saying otherwise makes the the very characterization of the "knee-jerk liberal".

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:37 AM

31. okay I won't keep silent

I think you are a little bit nuts.

"right wingers are an existential threat to their liberal neighbors"

I don't see it.

I am a public liberal in a sea of right wingers.

But this is the first I have heard about the Limbaugh connection.

Also, personally I think Poplawski was afraid of becoming homeless. He had no income, no place to live and his mother had called the cops to remove him from her home.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:48 AM

32. So you think I'm nuts...

I don't think you're paying attention.

LIMBAUGH CONNECTION: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rush-limbaugh-batman-villain-created-in-1993-is-attack-on-romney/

Where's that leave us?

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:09 AM

35. He began buying guns long before Limbaugh bloviated about Bane/Bain.

You are making the exact same jump to a conclusion that Rush made himself.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #35)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:17 AM

36. Unless, of course...

Unless, of course, I'm right.

And THAT'S what really irks the shit out of you naysayers.

I've made my case, I put forward quite a bit of the recent history of right-wing political murder, I've connected some dots in regards to Holmes, himself, and why I think he's a right-wing assassin (comment#3)... and all you guys have got is... what, exactly?

NOTHING.

Well, like they say: If you're going to stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:44 AM

44. You might be right.

But it will be a coincidence, based on your conjecture so far. Your case is built entirely on guilt by association. I'm just waiting on some evidence to surface before I draw any conclusions.

And you aren't "irking the shit" out of me, although the opposite may be true. I just disagree with your conclusions.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:21 AM

37. I've seen people with fake hunting licenses of that nature on their SUVs and hats.

 

It's a disturbing trend.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:24 AM

38. Bingo!

"They will blame anything and everything but modern-day conservatism, which preaches that liberals and democrats are the bona fide enemies of America and threats to the nation's very existence.

Only the most naive or apologetic of political observers could doubt that different right-wing conservatives would deal with the perceived threat liberals and democrats pose to them in different ways, and that some would, inevitably, resort to violence.

And as long as that is the case, as long as liberals and democrats are "the enemy" the bodies will continue to pile up."

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #38)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:51 AM

45. Actually, when I look at such things I don't see a hunting license. I see "I'M AN ASSHOLE!"

 

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:49 PM

65. While that may or may not be true...

Last edited Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:34 AM - Edit history (1)

While that may or may not be true, and you may infact be an asshole, it says, right up there at the top "HUNTING LICENSE," whether you see it or not.

And that is an implied threat of violence.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #65)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:29 AM

89. Yeah, I know. Even if it isn't a direct threat, it advocates it.

 

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:30 AM

39. The absolute very first thing

I thought of when I heard this terrible news, is what Rush had said a day or so before the shooting. This type of hate filled talk absolutely inspires people act. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but the timing is awfully coincidental. Guns are designed to do one thing and that is to KILL. Until we wake up and get real about doing something about gun control it will keep happening over and over. It's obvious strict gun control works. How often does something like this happen in England or Canada? Excellent post, and thank you for having the courage to speak out.

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Response to findrskeep (Reply #39)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:56 AM

47. What did he say? I don't listen to Limbaugh.

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Response to findrskeep (Reply #39)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:00 PM

53. Me, too.

It's easier for Limbaugh to foment violence against neighbors than for him to name the enemies who have actually looted and plundered this country's wealth. He's paid to be another layer of protection to those who would profit from an implosion in this country. Easy-peasy -- just blame Chris Nolan and Batman enthusiasts.

The second thing I thought is that this is an FBI/CIA production -- the other ring of this country's three ring circus.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:43 AM

43. It don't affect them

Republicans don't care about the the gun violence because it don't affect them. Just like Iraq the low income people who enlisted to get help attaining an education were sent to the slaughter in the name of controlling oil supplies. When everything is fine in the life of a Republican they don't care about anyone else. Even the evangelicals come off with the poor just need to get jobs and do this and do that. They have no grip on reality about how hard it is to get out of being poor when you have no resources to get a foothold. Again where is Wayne Lapierie (head of NRA) and the gun nuts to propose a solution for tragedies like Aurora, Va. Tech, Columbine, etc?

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:54 AM

46. And you have left out John and Robert Kennedy

Medgar Evers and Martin Luther King and many more.

Yes. The killers are insane. They carry their guns and shoot alone. But when they repeatedly and almost always aim at Democrats, at reformers of the "left," or supposedly of the "left," there has to be some reason.

We all hear that reason screamed out on talk radio hour after hour every day. The right-wing extremists have dredged a trench right through our society and from there they launch their verbal attacks on those who dare to dream of a better society, a better world.

The Rush Limbaughs of the world do not shoot the guns. They inspire many (and I am not claiming that it is all) of those who do.

When was the last time some lone gunman shot a right-wing hero? I think it has been a long, long time. Maybe Reagan. And that was one case out of so many, many Democrats and leaders on the left.

The right-wing hate propaganda has to stop. And the people perpetrating it have to take responsibility and stop it themselves.

A party that produces a vice-president who "accidentally" shoots a hunting partner in the face and then dares to show his own face in public? What kind of people are they?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #46)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:41 PM

69. And MLK Jr.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:59 AM

48. Racism is the black, rotted heart of America

 

there's no way it can tolerate a black president.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:58 PM

50. Ok first of all I'm willing to bet the shooter is a parnoid schizophrenic.

I don't blame the usual conserative hate mongering for what happened in Aurora. I do blame the NRA, Gun lovers that don't want any gun laws whatsoever and the NRA's political stooges in the GOP and Democratic Party.

I also blame this president and any Democrat that wimps out on Gun Control!

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 01:03 PM

51. Any shooting involves the politics of why and how that gun was used.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:03 PM

54. You know this might come as a bit of a shock to you but

not everyone's world revolves around politics.

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Response to Daniel537 (Reply #54)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:40 PM

68. This might come as a bit of a shock to you, but...

This might come as a bit of a shock to you, but a lot of people have DIED because the world DID revolve around someone else's politics.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:16 PM

55. Human evil is pathological in nature...

And like any other contagious disease, it can and does spread - like a biological plague - from one person to the next.

The organism involved is the human brain, and the way the plague of evil spreads, and infects others, is "language".

Deliberate lies and propaganda fed to naive, weak minded people, is a very dangerous thing, and entire societies can be made to self destruct.

Live = liveliness... The opposite of live is evil, and the goal of evil is to take away, and destroy the liveliness of others.

The picture in the OP is not the kind of language that promotes liveliness, it is however,the kind of language that promotes evil.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)


Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:20 PM

57. You certainly are angry, aren't you?

I think the idea of Jared Loughner being a right-wing extremist has been thoroughly debunked. He was crazy. End of story.

Also, if the right-wing poses this huge danger to all Democrats, liberals, progressives, lefties, or whatever, and all lefties are peace-loving, gentle, harmless souls how do you explain assassination attempts on Reagan, Ford, Bush 1, Bush 2 . . . Face it, there are nutcases on both sides of the aisles. No political party has a monopoly on hate, stupidity, or craziness.

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Response to Marcia Brady (Reply #57)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:33 PM

67. Loughner Is Crazy...

Loughner certainly is crazy, but sane enough to have a collection of neo-nazi literature sitting at his home (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47308.html).

Unlike some of the other books he had lying around, like the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf, the nazi literature Loughner had from the American Renaissance isn't something that you can just pick up at the local Barnes & Nobles.

He had to get the material either directly from the American Renaissance or from someone else who did.

No one goes to that kind of trouble unless they're more than interested in what it is they're reading.



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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:34 PM

58. Thanks for posting. Never forget.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:16 AM

79. Gabby Giffords? That shooters friends said he despised George bush

 

Went on and on how much he hated the former 'president'.
I noticed you left out the Ft. Hood murders.
Why?

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Response to Zax2me (Reply #79)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:20 AM

80. I hear the same thing from Tea baggers all of the time...

I left the Fort Hood Murders out because they are not examples of radical conservative terrorism. Any other questions?

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:38 AM

82. Good OP!

You are correct and hate speech needs to be stopped and classified as inciting violence.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #82)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 02:19 AM

84. Yes! Let's work on a list of words and phrases and ideas we should ban.

We can always add to it!

We just need to get the top 20 or so right now, and start shutting people up!!!!

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #84)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 02:26 AM

85. I'll Settle for a Bona Fide Debate...

I'll settle for a bona fide debate, like we did back in the old days under the Fairness Doctrine, in regards to political speech broadcast on the PUBLIC'S AIRWAVES.

The one thing about propaganda is that it's always a one-way communication - messenger to message receiver.

The public's airwaves are no place for propaganda, and reinstating the Fairness Doctrine is a good way to do away with a lot of the propaganda out there without resorting to full censorship.

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Reply #85)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:56 PM

92. agree (nt)

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Response to OneAngryDemocrat (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:20 AM

88. this is the reason i'm voting for obama. nt

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