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Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:27 PM

I killed 12 people......

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Reply I killed 12 people...... (Original post)
HarveyDarkey Jul 2012 OP
Kalidurga Jul 2012 #1
Brickbat Jul 2012 #7
Chorophyll Jul 2012 #2
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #3
loli phabay Jul 2012 #5
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #6
Dragonfli Jul 2012 #8
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #9
Dragonfli Jul 2012 #10
bluedigger Jul 2012 #14
treestar Jul 2012 #12
BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #13
quinnox Jul 2012 #4
DearAbby Jul 2012 #11
Bluerthanblue Jul 2012 #15
lynne Jul 2012 #16
arely staircase Jul 2012 #19
Canuckistanian Jul 2012 #20
ethereal1 Jul 2012 #17
arely staircase Jul 2012 #18
MADem Jul 2012 #21
Forgot username Jul 2012 #22
sadbear Jul 2012 #23
Forgot username Jul 2012 #24
beac Jul 2012 #25

Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:31 PM

1. I think of him as a terrorist.

I really don't care why he did it. I would like to understand, but having the why probably won't help much. The working theory is mental illness. Which brings more questions than answers. If he was mentally ill and his parents had money and at least his mother knew there was a major problem Why did he not get help from a professional? Why did he drop out of medical school? Why did he pick a theater? Why this particular movie? Anyway lots of questions and there will be fewer answers and those answers will lead to more questions. It is going to be an endless stream of whys.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:46 PM

7. It is very difficult to get an adult committed or even seen for an evaluation if they don't want

one. Terribly difficult to impossible. It's a delicate balance between protecting someone's human rights and protecting him from himself. If this didn't come on until after he turned 18, his mother could do little to nothing.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:34 PM

2. He certainly used the same tactics as a terrorist,

right down to booby-trapping his apartment building. We don't know what his motive was (I suspect he's deeply disturbed) but it doesn't really matter. His intent was to harm as many people as possible.

We seem unable to use the T-word when it's a white man acting alone, though.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:40 PM

3. If he had any discernible political motive

 

they'd call him a terrorist.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:42 PM

5. seems it wasnt political rather just i hate the world

though we will find out more in the next days

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:43 PM

6. That's my guess for the time being

 

doesn't seem to fit any political motive.

But who knows?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:48 PM

8. Not really very accurate, Terror is a tactic, not a political belief, a tactic he employed in fact.

It is a tactic that many NON MUSLIMS use as well but are called "lone gunmen" when white.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:51 PM

9. US legal definition is pretty clear:

 

United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)

(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;
(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and
(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—
(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—
(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or
(ii) as a transit point; and
(B) the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—
(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;
(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or
(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:15 PM

10. I agree it is often used for political reasons, but it is also a tactic

ter·ror·ism   
noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

In the first use of the word it says especially (rather than exclusively)
It is nonetheless a tactic specifically used to provoke a state of fear or submission.


But I understand where you are coming from.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:27 PM

14. But what is a tactic?

tactic  

noun
1.
tactics ( def. 1 ) .
2.
a system or a detail of tactics.
3.
a plan, procedure, or expedient for promoting a desired end or result.

tac·tics 
noun
1.
( usually used with a singular verb ) the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle.
2.
( used with a plural verb ) the maneuvers themselves.
3.
( used with a singular verb ) any mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success.
4.
( usually used with a singular verb ) Linguistics .
a.
the patterns in which the elements of a given level or stratum in a language may combine to form larger constructions.
b.
the study and description of such patterns.


While he certainly terrorized his victims during the commission of his crime, unless you can demonstrate that he had a goal to achieve some greater end, his crime does not rise to the level of terrorism, but is an act of random mass violence. It may be that a manifesto or other evidence may yet be uncovered, however.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:17 PM

12. Thank you

the mentally ill are not "terrorists." They aren't thinking anything through or trying to gain political advantage.

It's like "terrorist" is the latest bad word and every bad actor must be labelled with it or they aren't bad enough. That's silly.

We don't have to call this guy a terrorist. It isn't necessary to make him guilty of killing 12 people.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:19 PM

13. tactics are usu. in service to a strategy though

Last edited Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:24 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

this guy didnt have a strategy beyond killing a whole bunch of random innocent people.

edit. thats why its possible to speak of that breivik character as a terrorist, since there was a discernable strategy behind his actions.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:41 PM

4. yep, and Timothy McVeigh, another white male, is still the biggest

home grown terrorist in history in terms of the scale of his crime.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:15 PM

11. A terrorist got his weapons legally...nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:33 PM

15. it doesn't really matter what people call him- or would have called

him had he been anything other than who he is.

I understand what you are saying, but it wouldn't bring back the people who have died, or the people who are hurt.

People are going to have their prejudices regardless. And people are going to kill for reasons that often not even they can explain.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:42 PM

16. Terrorism is a means of coercion -

- violent acts used as intimidation to achieve a specific goal or agenda.

I agree that his method was terrorist-like but he's not a terrorist until we known his reason. Right now he's just insane.

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Response to lynne (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:48 PM

19. but if this insane person had just happend

to have been Muslim the msm or at least the reactionary elements in it would call him a terrorist. As surely as the sun comes up in the east.

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Response to lynne (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:50 PM

20. Yes.

Whatever you think a terrorist is, they usually have an ultimate political goal.

At this point, we don't know anything about the motive.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:44 PM

17. Titles are useless

 

Last edited Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:44 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The Army still does not refer to Major Hassan as a terrorist and he reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he opened fire on the soldiers at Fort Hood, killing 13 people and wounding 29 others. Does this disprove your hypothesis?

He's a muslim, and surprise, was also a Doc. NOw that I think about it, Anwar al-Alauqi pursued a PhD in Human Resource Development at George Washington University Graduate School of Education & Human Development. Perhaps higher education is the root of this evil?

Sarcasm aside, the title of 'terrorist' or 'crazed lone wolf white man' is one thrust upon an individual after an event and most certainly out after much gnashing of teeth and political sensitivity considerations. PC rules the day yet again.

Ethereal1

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:46 PM

18. the double standard disgusts me. nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:52 PM

21. He committed an act of terrorism, and frankly, his motives don't matter to me.

Anyone -- for reasons political or fantastical -- who murders 12 people and counting, and wounds many dozens more, IS a terrorist in my mind.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:24 PM

22. Terrorism?

Terrorism implies religious or political motive.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:25 PM

23. If he were black,

he would have never made it to the police station.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:29 PM

24. I agree

He wouldn't have made it out of the parking lot alive.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:32 PM

25. Sometimes the Google ad algorithm makes me sick.

I wasn't logged in when I first clicked on this OP (had just done my daily cookie clearing) and the ad in the right hand corner wanted me to:

Advance Your Military Career With An MBA!" complete with a guy in camo holding a gun.

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