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Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:20 AM

Please explain: What does it mean when they say US sells Planes to Saudis?

http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-12-30/news/30571771_1_fighter-jets-saudis-arms-deal

Who's planes are they?
Who gets the money the Arabs are paying?
Are they already built and being used by the US Military?
New or used?
50,000 jobs?
Is the US government in the airplane sales business? Why?
Do Republicans want to give the Muslims more fire power? Why?
Possible uprising coming?



Is this just more 1% crap?

28 replies, 3393 views

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Reply Please explain: What does it mean when they say US sells Planes to Saudis? (Original post)
rgbecker Jan 2012 OP
HopeHoops Jan 2012 #1
rgbecker Jan 2012 #7
elehhhhna Jan 2012 #16
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #18
CanonRay Jan 2012 #2
sarcasmo Jan 2012 #12
ProdigalJunkMail Jan 2012 #3
rgbecker Jan 2012 #8
freshstart Jan 2012 #19
freshstart Jan 2012 #4
ProdigalJunkMail Jan 2012 #5
Warren Stupidity Jan 2012 #6
dmallind Jan 2012 #24
brewens Jan 2012 #9
randr Jan 2012 #10
MineralMan Jan 2012 #11
NNN0LHI Jan 2012 #13
freshwest Jan 2012 #14
Fumesucker Jan 2012 #15
freshstart Jan 2012 #17
raouldukelives Jan 2012 #23
aikoaiko Jan 2012 #20
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #21
kestrel91316 Jan 2012 #22
oldhippydude Jan 2012 #25
cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #26
madinmaryland Jan 2012 #27
Enrique Jan 2012 #28

Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:24 AM

1. I think it says exactly what it means.

 

If a plane manufacturer was selling commercial jets, it would name the company. When an article says "US", it means fighter/support military jets. It doesn't matter who makes them.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:03 AM

7. Begs the question: Does the US government make any money on this....?

Or does this just mean, the government is allowing the jet company to go ahead and sell the planes. Does the government have to give permission for anyone to sell arms to another company...say Remington selling bullets? How does it actually work?

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:51 AM

16. Odds are US military aid pays for the planes - that means us.

another transfer of tax money to the corporate overlords.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:56 AM

18. Yes it does, the transaction must go through US gov channels

The price includes those costs and some reimbursement for R&D costs

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:32 AM

2. It means a bunch of corporations made a bunch of money

so what else is new.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:24 AM

12. Which in turn line the pockets of politcians.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:32 AM

3. it means we support the continuation of the current power structure in that country

and your question about "Do Republicans want to give the Muslims more fire power?" is just plain stupid.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:12 AM

8. Didn't mean to come across as stupid question asker...but

With all the anti Muslim talk from the right wing conservatives, it seems a little inconsistant for them to be supporting such a sale.

Just meant as a light hearted jab at King's anti Muslim rhetoric.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201103080014

What I'm looking for is more clear understanding of the actual mechanics of such a 30 billion dollar sale. I pretty much know the US likes having Oil rich Saudi Arabia on our side. Can you help with that?

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:20 PM

19. I'm not sure if this will help you

but you may be able to figure some things out with the usaspending.gov website. It is down right now though.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:35 AM

4. This is a little off topic

but a very interesting Frontline - House of Saud (about US/Saudi relations over the years)

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Response to freshstart (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:37 AM

5. I saw this some time ago...

very apropos...

sP

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:45 AM

6. Sadly big high tech weapons are just about the only thing we make

anymore.

Yes it is a transfer between one branch of the global kleptocracy and another. Some peasants working in the war industry benefit by not getting laid off, but basically the loot is transferred from oiligarchs to MIC-kleptocrats.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:17 PM

24. Strange then that it's less than 1% of exports.....

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:16 AM

9. Sometimes they just borrow them to fly into buildings.

I'm one that thought we should have treated 9/11 as and attack by the Saudis' rather than Iraq. Most of them were Saudis'.

The most effective response would have been and ultimatum to the royal family there. Tell them one more American is killed by a Saudi and we flatten all your palaces and take you guys out! Also, we want Bin ladin's head in a box! Do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Not much chance of that happening, given Bush's relationship with the Saudis'. Not to mention the pics of Bush with young boys they probably have.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:16 AM

10. I means that a group of spoiled rich kids

are getting jets for Christmas from their Islamic parents.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:18 AM

11. What it means is that the US uses arms sales as a

sort of diplomatic tool. If a country does what we want it to, we reward them by selling them high-tech arms. Every country wants high-tech arms, and they have only a couple of places where they can buy them, so those arms become incentives in one way or another.

It is a mistake to do this. It has always been a mistake to do this. While the Afghani rebels were fighting the Russians, we supplied them with arms they could use to harass the Russians. Then, when the Russians left, and we tried to exert our influence in that country, the same weapons were used against us. This sort of thing backfires all the time, but we do not learn.

It has been my opinion since the early 1960s that the major powers should all refuse to sell arms of any kind to other nations. Period. That, of course, was an impossible idea, especially during the cold war. I suppose it still is an impossible idea, but I still hold that opinion, for all the good it does.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:32 AM

13. An American mercenary company called Vinnell Corporation supplies security for the ruling family

Been that way for decades. If we ever wanted to get rid of the Saudi ruling family all we would have to do is order our mercenaries to leave there. The Saudi people would take care of the rest in a jiffy.

There will be no uprising in Saudi Arabia.

Don

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:36 AM

14. I wrote a book in reply but won't post it. But yeah, it's just more 1% crap.

From our 1%, not the government to their 1%. They may even be the same 1%, for all we know. A google of Bandar Bush gives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan

It's all about the money. And don't forget who the second biggest stockholder of the media that tells us what to think is:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129584557

Before any of us fall for the 1%'s latest sales pitch, a war with Iran, we should silence their voices in our heads. Just stay away long enough to hear the sound of that cha-ching in the background, the profits going into their pockets.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:38 AM

15. It means that Saudi Arabai is a bastion of freedom that we must help defend.. n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:54 AM

17. +1

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:05 PM

23. +2

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:52 PM

20. IIRC there is a division in the State Department that does these sales.


I forget the acronym, but I ran across it when reading about US gun sales to Mexico.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:57 PM

21. It's a payoff to one of our few remaining friendly dictatorships.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:58 PM

22. We sell used US military aircraft to other countries, but IIRC we never sell them our

best, state-of-the-art stuff. We keep that for ourselves.

Back in the 70s my dad test flew refurbished F-4s for the USAF that were being prepped for sale to Germany.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:47 PM

25. i do remeber too

back in the days when we had a vigorous 4th estate in this country.. when the Saudis bought the AWACS planes.. there was substantial debate in congress, and was covered by mainstream press.. now this kind of purchase slips through, with little public accountability..yet another victum of the elimination of the "fairness doctrine".. and the corporatization of the media..

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:54 PM

26. re: Do Republicans want to give the Muslims more fire power?

It is not useful to think of "the muslims"

Saudi Arabia is always pressuring us to bomb Iran. Saudi Arabia does not want a nuclear Iran.

Suadi Arabia and Iran are both Muslim nations but are bitterly opposed.

We, not just the Republicans but administrations of both parties, provide the Suadis with arms 1) in exchange for their cooperation in stabilizing the oil market and not fomenting war with Israel, and 2) they are our relative-allies in a war within Islam.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:07 PM

27. The Military Industrial Complex makes a bundle of money. In some cases

the overseas governments are using American taxpayer's money to buy the weapon systems.

Messed up, isn't it.

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:19 PM

28. another question, who is Saudi Arabia's biggest threat?

answer: its own people.

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