There Is Literally No Way To Get Help When You Are Mentally Ill

[TheMastersNemesis]

I worked for DOL for 24 years. In all the years that I was there I saw one obvious huge hole in our safety net. There is almost no way to get adequate help if you have mental illness. Insurance coverage is very limited. Research into mental health problems is very sparse.

When I worked at the homeless shelter in Boulder, Colorado in the early 1990's dealing with mentally ill or socially ill people was a common every day experience. I often wonder how I was able to run a day labor operation and survive. I learned to be very resourceful and imaginative. You have to think crazy sometimes to relate.

Earlier in my career a friend, neighbor and colleague at DOL had a neighbor. He was in his early 20's and became schizophrenic. He used to come into our job service looking for work and was a real test because he was unmanageable one on one. And he lived in my neighborhood as well. He would roam around aimlessly. He was about 6'2" and very athletic. When he was eventually admitted to a mental hospital. We were all relieved.

There was also an incident where a mentally ill vet had me trapped in my office for 3 hours having me call all over the country trying to find his VA check. What really made me mad was that when I asked for help from the county supervisors and my own management no one responded. I do not remember but I somehow was able to extricate myself from the situation with the help of a county service officer who helped vets. When it was all over I was blamed. I was furious.

My best friend of 23 years shot himself in Sept 1999. We worked at DOL together for 23 years. I was retired and he had been having physical problems and severe depression that he had been treated for in 1982. His wife had divorced him for a kid 20 years younger than him and his son was in trouble with the law. He had one bankruptcy and was on his way to another. He was a Vietnam era vet who loaded bombs on the Kittyhawk and had a roaring deafness (tinnitus on super steroids) because the jet noise.
He could not get ANY meaningful mental health help. We had a mean sadistic manager who had a history of beating his wife and kids as well as his underlings psychologically who threatened my friend about his job. I believe that that manager sent my friend over the cliff. I pass by his house every day when I leave our development.

So I have had a lot of experience with dealing with people who have problems. We have a medieval system when it comes to mental health in this country.

It is very likely this person had some sort of mental issue and his act was not necessarily political. The facts will come out as sthe investigation continues. And I wonder what holes we will find in our system. Surely there were signs that something was terribly wrong with this individual.

[get the red out]

1. You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!

I have dealt with trying to get help for a family member and it was nearly impossible, and they had insurance. When you get the person help, the help often looks at them and you as if to say "what in the hell do you want me to do about it?" The "system" is NOTHING. No real research, a desire to hide the problem because of shame, until it blows up and has to be faced. Archaic systems and ideas regarding mental health. Even pressure on the mentally ill to not dare take medications if prescribed by outside groups in some cases.

We throw them on the streets to die and call it fucking "freedom". We say they would get help if they "really wanted it", while their brains are malfunctioning and they can't think, let alone want or seek help. It's like if society looked at a person in a wheelchair and said they would walk if they really "wanted to".

[kestrel91316]

2. [phone] 000 000 000

People with broken brains shouldn't be able to use those broken brains to conclude that they don't need mental health care and have the system simply nod and say "OK!".

[Daemonaquila]

32. Excuse me?

That sounds terribly judgmental as well as dangerous to basic freedom. By and large, people with mental illness, even rather severe mental illness, are able to function at least at a basic level. Who gets to decide when these folks are "broken" enough that they are required to be supervised and treated by a mental health system? When they must take medications against their will? It has been a long and ugly road, fighting against institutionalization, forced sterilization, and forced medication for people with mental conditions. Sounds awfully totalitarian to me, and a short hop away from the government finding reasons to determine that people with unpopular opinions are mentally ill. I know a lot of officials who'd love to use that strategy against Occupiers and others.

[progressivebydesign]

40. anyone who will become violent without medication, should be institutionalized.

How many times have we had killings where someone who didn't want to take their meds, stopped taking them?

There is a reason for some people to be put in mental hospitals. It's ridiculous to think that it's more HUMANE to have mentally ill people living on the street, scrounging for food, dying under bridges of hypothermia, than to be in a hospital setting. I never understood that... who is that better? And for the families who live through the horror of trying to get someone institutionalized, but can't because of the "oh we can't take their freedoms away," groups who make it impossible? Often when that person does kill someone, usually a family member, the family tells of years of trying to get them into a hospital.

Between the tax cut idiots, and the freedom-at-all-costs, we're harming more mentally ill people and their families.

[kestrel91316]

41. Don't lecture me about "totalitarian" abuses under the guise of mental health care.

I dealt for decades with a mentally ill mother that the system refused to help. When someone is severely psychotic and delusional, it's criminal to leave them to fend for themselves for the sake of personal "freedom".

My mom basically died a long, slow, lingering death due to the consequences of untreated hypertension and strokes because her delusions told her for decades that doctors were trying to kill her. That never had to happen.

You make me

[TheMastersNemesis]

4. No Way To Help Those Unable To Help Themselves

Many mentally ill people are not able to help themselves because they are mentally incompetent. When a schizophrenic stops taking their medication they relapse. The failure to take medication when it is available is very common. And we have NO networks available.

When it comes to homeless people virtually all are mentally ill after 6 months on the street. What the public does not know is that a perfectly normal person who becomes homeless will develop "homelessness syndrome" which has to be treated along with whatever else ails them. Many fall into alcoholism or drug abuse.

One problem is that we do not really know how to treat mental illness in this modern age. We are not very far past Freudianism even today. The only treatment we seem to have is drugs, but that does no handle the problem.

[Posteritatis]

9. And plenty of them are competent, but are still pressured away from treatment

There's still some absolute idiots out there claiming that there's no such thing as mental illness; there's others who decide that mental illness maps directly onto criminality, or evil, or B-movie depictions of "insanity;" there's people who believe that any kind of treatment for same is some mind-control conspiracy or lobotomization or Scientology-inspired torture; it goes on and on.

And that's before any other pressure from friends or family or work or school or the community as a whole, all of whom can often be somewhere between willing and eager to lay on some additional pressure to pretend nothing's wrong or lie about your problems, lest they react in a stupid matter upon finding out you've sought treatment or something.

It's hard enough to get treatment or other kinds of help even if someone knows there's something wrong and genuinely wants to do something about it. Most forms of health coverage are reluctant to, or refuse to, cover such treatment; employers will often treat mental illness as mere malingering; many schools are adopting expulsion policies if they find out a student's started seeking treatment for something while in attendance; I've had a close friend rather brutally punished by a church group for the "sin" of post-traumatic depression. Have all of those, add a few peers who decide that "mental illness" = "axe murderer" and react that way, add some relatives doing a bit more of the same while trying to sweep the genetic embarrassment under the rug...

There's definitely treatments out there, which have turned around or outright saved the lives of several of my friends, but there's also a lot of ignorance, fear, denial and outright hatred too, and every one of those gets very much in the way of everyone, with a few very, very lucky exceptions, who needs or wants to seek help for something.

Of course, as you say, when you take the ones whose illness actually does go far enough that they aren't really competent anymore, all of that actually manages to get worse.

[get the red out]

12. Absolutely

And once someone can be defined as an alcoholic or drug abuser, then they are marginalized in another distinct way, with that as their identity forever.

If there were more real research, we could find better answers, but our society just doesn't seem to be interested. We would rather look at people as expendable.

[GObamaGO]

3. The mental healthcare system in this country is absolutely deplorable

I hate that there are people here, and elsewhere that are immediately jumping on the "political motives" bandwagon.

[slackmaster]

5. That's only part of the problem. The mentally ill person who victimized me this year had abundant...

...access to care. She REFUSED to be treated for her problems even after being committed involuntarily, and paid the ultimate price for it.

[Mz Pip]

10. There's a catch-22 here in CA

You can't be admitted to a psychiatric ward unless you sign yourself in. My son had a harrowing experience with his former MIL who was having a breakdown. She was hallucinating and delusional but when they pulled up to the ER she wouldn't leave the car. The doctors said there was nothing they could do unless she signed herself in. No amount of coaxing from her daughter or my son could get her to admit herself.

A couple of weeks later she fell and fractured her hip and was admitted for that. Only then were the doctors able to do anything for her.

[slackmaster]

13. California Welfare and Institutions Code Section 5150

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5150-5157

A person who is taken involuntarily to a psychiatric facility under Section 5150 and subsequent code at least has the burden of convincing a judge that he or she can be safely released. If the hospital staff disagrees, they can present a case to keep the person confined until no longer a danger to self or to others.

[ieoeja]

22. A mentally ill person refused to take care of themselves when they had the opportunity?

That is just crazy.

[slackmaster]

23. She called me several times from the lock-down hospital where the police took her

One time she said "If I don't get out of here soon I'll go CRAZY!"

I couldn't stop myself from letting out a little laugh. She DID have a good sense of humor in spite of all of her massive emotional conflicts, self-destructive behavior, and self-esteem problems.

[quakerboy]

42. Too much freedom?

It can be a double edged sword. When someone is in the midst of mental illness, they may not be capable of admitting something is wrong. How do you help someone who is refusing help?

I had this discussion with a young man from Africa, and he was clear that in his village, the elders would insist on helping, the person would not be given a choice. Which would suck if, say, you just wanted to be a bit different, dye your hair purple and wear skinny jeans during a period when that was not socially acceptable, and the elders can come and make you change. But might be handy when someone is in trouble and refusing help.

[slackmaster]

43. We have much to learn from villagers in Africa

So it seems.

[Mimosa]

6. Many health insurance policies exclude treatment for 'mental disorders'

I used to have to purchase my own health care insurance (when I could afford it). Blue cross Blue Shield policies excluded therapy or treatment for 'mental or nervous conditions'.

[Posteritatis]

11. "Nervous conditions?" That's just a wee bit anachronistic of them, no?

When I was doing research on the topic I started seeing that term fade out of medical use in the forties. Gah.

Gives a nice hint to whether they'd updated their policies in the last, well, lifetime though.

[coalition_unwilling]

26. At least they weren't barring coverage for 'hysteria' (the term in

common parlance back when Freud did his groundbreaking work).

Although 'nervous conditions' sounds eerily like 'hysteria'.

[cali]

7. awhile I agree with a great deal of your post

if this guy wanted mental health help he could have gotten it. He was enrolled in Med School, for pete's sake. Are you suggesting the school had no mental health structure for students? Unlikely. Damned unlikely.

Sadly, many seriously mentally ill people do no seek psychiatric help and refuse it when it's offered. That's part of the disease.

I don't think your post applies in this case.

[Posteritatis]

15. You'd be surprised

"Coming out," per se, with a mental disorder can be very difficult in schools, especially in really high-pressure programs.

Plenty of schools have a lot of pressure to get rid of students who've been diagnosed with something while in attendance, ostensibly because of liability issues for "when" the student "inevitably" snaps and harms someone. Expelling people over it has become something of a trend in the last half-dozen years or so, especially if they go inpatient even for a day or two.

If I suspected I needed treatment for a mental problem while doing an advanced degree - and I'm assuming for the sake of the discussion that I was competent enough to suspect one; anosognosia is a real problem - I would be extremely nervous about the consequences if the school found out.

[enlightenment]

17. Just because it is a medical school doesn't mean

it has a good mental health program for students. Schools have them, yes - but they are generally underfunded and understaffed; at least partially staffed by grad students in the counseling psychology department, which is probably sufficient for a student suffering a transitory stressor (break-up, failing grade, test anxiety) but probably not for someone with a serious, long-term problem. The university I attended had one program, with two fully qualified professionals and a rotating staff of six grad student 'counselors' - for a student population of over 20,000.

Even if the school had a top-flight program, you answered the problem yourself. People with serious mental health issues often do not seek help - or refuse it.

You are suggesting that it is up to a person who is incapable of thinking rationally to make a rational decision to seek treatment. Frankly, even if the individual sought treatment at the school mental health center, there is absolutely no guarantee that they would recognize or be able to adequately address the issues the person had. There is simply no real system in place, beyond the classic 72-hour psych hold that is pretty much useless, to help someone who is on the edge - but not yet over the edge.

The OP is suggesting that a big part of the problem with mental health treatment in this country is the lack of a system of outside intervention. We don't (can't) do anything until it is too late - rather like those women who are told that their abusive ex-partner cannot be arrested until they 'do something'. By the time we do something, it is often far too late for someone else.

[mysuzuki2]

8. this guy was apparently a medical student until very recently.

he was around drs and other medical professionals every day. If his problems were not recognized and he was not given help in such an environment, what hope would any mentally ill person have?

[greymattermom]

27. not an MD student, a PhD student

PhD students rarely encounter MDs. Our neuroscience PhD students would have no idea how to contact the psychiatry department, who wouldn't accept them without the correct insurance anyway. In many medical centers the school and hospital are distinct institutions.

[mysuzuki2]

31. ah, of course there is a difference. I stand corrected.

The initial reports stated that he was a med student.

[HooptieWagon]

14. Uh, folks. We dont know if he ever sought mental health care.

He may have insurance on his parents policy, and if he was in grad school and his parents owned apartment buildings, Im guessing money wasn't a big problem. And perhaps he was receiving treatment? We just dont know the full story yet.
So, while mental health care is certainly a topic worth discussing, using this tragedy to push a particular agenda when we dont know the background is quite wrong.

[pacalo]

20. Mental health is worth discussing at this point, though, because those of us who know

someone with mental problems recognize it when we see it.

Even if a person with a mental illness had insurance & money, that's no guarantee that they'll take the medicine. The medicine apparently makes them feel zonked out; even if a caretaker hands them the medicine & watches until the medicine is taken, there's a possibility that the pill was swept to the side of the mouth with the tongue to keep from swallowing it.

Just the medicine alone costs just under $2000/month, so I can only imagine what a longterm private hospital stay would cost. Only the super rich would have exactly what they need to get the proper care for their family member.

I had a chat with my son's doctor & he was very distressed at all the recent state cuts to state facilities. The computers were barely working, many patients are no longer getting the state's financial help for their medicine, staff (which was already quite minimal) was being cut -- everything but the two doctors, he said, was getting pared down.

I would suppose that Colorado is no different, but, like you said, we can't be sure of what the guy's situation was until the facts come out. I'm guessing, though, that mental illness is key to this tragedy, & because of the illusion of grandeur that goes along with mental illness that causes a mental patient to do something bold & because mental care is not regarded as important by society, incidents like this will happen again & again.

[Posteritatis]

30. Another reason it's worth discussing...

... is because whenever stuff like this happens, people dive out of the woodwork with the usual staggeringly stupid cliches and stereotypes and worse about the idea of mental illness. People need to be a little preemptive to head off that sort of thing as quickly as they can, because every time something like this is at the top of the news there's pressure to make life that much worse for people who are already suffering enough.

It's always good to see people bringing facts to those kinds of discussions, especially since it's so easy for so many to just emote about "crazy people."

[freshwest]

38. Thanks, been seeing this too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Thank you. I have a family member.

She had insurance and still had a horrible time getting a diagnosis and correct medication. But after 5 years, they finally figured out what was wrong with her and what meds would be appropriate. She did well for 20 years, and then maxed out her insurance lifetime coverage. So she had to go on disability and Medicaid, and essentially start all over again with the diagnosis and meds. She's not done well since her insurance lapsed.

She is the reason I support the ACA. If she had not lost her insurance coverage, she would be able to work and not be dependent on tax payers to pay for her medical care.

Even those with insurance struggle for appropriate care for mental illness.

[1monster]

18. Thank you. I've been there looking for help for a family member. Not asking for a hand out or

any freebees, you understand. We just wanted to be pointed in the correct direction, by public or private sources that were set up to give advice and help those who needed it get the care they needed.

In the end, we ended up where we started out and with nothing but wasted time and tens of thousands of dollars (not one of them from insurance who refused to pay even when the services were covered) poorer.

What happens all to often is that those seeking help, eventually give up because it is not there. It's not always for dramatic cases like the one today. But law enforcement enters the picture, charges are filed and the person who needed help and was not given help ends up in prison, punished far more harshly than a person who is not mentally ill for the same crime.

It's a big freakin' circle. And the "safty nets" set up to help those in need are set up in such a way as to deny help to any who apply. Even when one is just seeking a direction...

[FirstLight]

19. and there is a flip-side too

I was going thru recovery from an abusive marriage and the stress had triggered an auto-immune illness, I went to the clinic several times to ask that they do some blood work or something to help me find out why i was hurting all over and getting sick all the time. I even had a dr tell me when I had full blown strep throat that I was just "depressed" and needed meds....

Eventually i got the right doc and got diagnosed, (got the proper auto-immune meds) and yes they gave my cymbalta because it relieves chronic pain as well as depression...but gee, you think I might have been upset/depressed because my BODY was failing me?

So I sought out some therapy through the county (mind you, all this is taking a couple YEARS to sort through, meanwhile I am struggling as a single parent and only have medicaid insurance) and after 6 months wait, I finally get a worker. I see her maybe a total of three or four times, once every three weeks or so... (if I had been really bad off, I probably would have snapped by then) she barely knew me and diagnosed me with BPD Borderline personality... then funding gets cut and she has to discontinue our sessions. I was told I could go to group sessions every 2 weeks...and the group consisted of every range of disorders, even serious schizophrenia cases...so that wouldn't be much help.
I have had to find my own way...thru meditation and other venues, and I still don;t feel like I have all the answers...nor do I feel like I totally match her "diagnosis"...when most of my life stuff has been traumatic in nature and I mostly needed to deal with the PTSD of it all... thank god I am 8 years out of the situation and fairly well adjusted, lol

Last year I was in the GYN office and we were discussing my history and meds... and she mentioned the BPD
I had NO idea that information was in my medical records!!!!
It frightens me that one day it may come back and bite me in the ass...

[Atypical Liberal]

24. I think mental institutions was one of the first attacks on health care.

There was a big push to "deinstitutionalize" mental health care many years ago.

Now part of this was legitimate - there were people being institutionalized who were not mentally ill, they were simply seen as burdens to their families, or considered too promiscuous, or otherwise a problem.

So the laws were changed so it was much harder to institutionalize someone against their will.

But this was also when a lot of state mental institutions were closed down. It's no coincidence that many, if not most, homeless people have mental health issues. We shut down the state-run mental health facilities and now those people are turned out and, not having enough mental faculties to take care of themselves, end up homeless.

We need universal health care, and part of that needs to include mental health care, including mental institutions where people who are mentally unable or unfit to take care of themselves or be left out in public can be housed.

[Chakaconcarne]

25. I work at one of the larger mental health institutions in the US

Really, the best patients (without family support, etc.) can hope for is a revolving door facility where at least they can be safe and have some kind of belonging to a community. The greater community does not have the means to care for these patients long term. Facilities can't house every patient indefinitely. Until we get an community infrastructure in place.. it's what we have.

[freshwest]

39. Thank you, I know a number of people who recieve services in and out such places.

They need stability, a permanent home if there is no other place for them to go and they cannot handle being shuffled around for someone's bottom line.

[tclambert]

28. If you seek help for mental illness, that's proof you aren't mentally ill.

"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle."

[Posteritatis]

29. Uh, no, it isn't. Christ, the stupid things people say about stuff like this. (nt)

[tclambert]

35. I'm just quoting the legal statutes.

This one is right in the law books, next to: "If you ask for a lawyer, you must be guilty of something."

[freshwest]

33. The GOP did away with mental health parity in coverage years ago, with their 'sin' model. We need to

Stop stigmatizing the mentally ill. If a person needs help managing diabetes, or a spinal injury, it's not generally seen a moral failing. The NIH in the UK and other nations with health care for all, no matter what, don't have the level of homelessness, crime and other factors that deny people the ability to work. The GOP has stripped the funding from all forms of mental heatlh or addictions to the point professionals have been lucky to get positions to help people and many people have lost their lifeline to recovery.

A person can be physically or mentally disabled, but the brain is the coordinator of so much. We've suffered through a national media culture that acts as if the lives of these people is a circus act for our amusement, ala the Jerry Springer show and a host of other shows with people who actually needed guidance and medical care yet are cajoled into getting on national tv to be mocked and made profit off of their recitations of their troubles, which were mostly due to lack of health care. That was the other part of the GOP media, to make us despise each other.

We have the sadistic Nancy Grace performances, the shock jock psuedo-psychology of Savage denigtrating health care for people and those educated to help others insituations not easily measured like a disease diagnosed with blood work. Rush mocked and called for the locking up of people with drug addictions while he was indulging himself. We've been taught to despise anyone who needs help.

Look at what happened to the Iraq veterans with TBI and PTSD. All told to boot strap it by people who had not served. Stigmatized, refused help, homeless. This is not a new thing with veterans, but they are not the only ones suffering in this war or human conscience the GOP has waged on us for decades now. We can turn this around, but we have to reject the lies.

I could add many anecdotes like yours, and what you wrote shows you know the problem as well as many of us here do. Thanks very much for sharing those details with us.

[DallasNE]

34. My Experience Has Been

That the Psychiatrists do a good job of diagnosis and drug treatment but there is no help to be found in treating the inappropriate behaviors and unless one deals with the oppositional defiance and the anger used to solidify the defiance the person will never be able to manage their mental health issues.

[madrchsod]

36. not unless you have a shit load of money

we went through this with our family. one insurance company paid out about 60+ thousand for several stays. another time the insurance cost was around 40 thousand. then a few years later insurance companies started cutting the time for hospitalization and private therapy.

[tru]

37. not blaming the wife

I would not blame your friend's wife for leaving him. Their marriage must have been hell.