HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Tom Tomorrow reposted thi...

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:56 AM

Tom Tomorrow reposted this today - in response to the gun-worshippers who are howling today

Tom Tomorrow reposted this today.


It's really the best response to the gun-worshippers who are howling today.

142 replies, 22873 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 142 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tom Tomorrow reposted this today - in response to the gun-worshippers who are howling today (Original post)
kpete Jul 2012 OP
rfranklin Jul 2012 #1
Johonny Jul 2012 #21
GreenPartyVoter Jul 2012 #27
tclambert Jul 2012 #73
ileus Jul 2012 #104
caseymoz Jul 2012 #134
DBoon Jul 2012 #31
SDjack Jul 2012 #57
rateyes Jul 2012 #77
smirkymonkey Jul 2012 #119
nilram Jul 2012 #123
hay rick Jul 2012 #120
caseymoz Jul 2012 #135
madinmaryland Jul 2012 #2
patrice Jul 2012 #3
beac Jul 2012 #4
BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2012 #5
Scuba Jul 2012 #28
Patiod Jul 2012 #6
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #7
myrna minx Jul 2012 #8
hack89 Jul 2012 #9
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #30
hack89 Jul 2012 #33
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #39
hack89 Jul 2012 #40
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #41
hack89 Jul 2012 #43
bongbong Jul 2012 #90
Zoeisright Jul 2012 #66
hack89 Jul 2012 #68
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #78
hack89 Jul 2012 #81
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #97
hack89 Jul 2012 #99
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #103
hack89 Jul 2012 #100
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #102
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #80
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #85
hack89 Jul 2012 #88
bongbong Jul 2012 #91
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #95
hack89 Jul 2012 #98
bongbong Jul 2012 #114
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #101
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #93
AynRandCollectedSS Jul 2012 #117
hack89 Jul 2012 #130
Skittles Jul 2012 #107
hack89 Jul 2012 #108
Pholus Jul 2012 #128
hack89 Jul 2012 #131
LanternWaste Jul 2012 #50
hack89 Jul 2012 #51
Diclotican Jul 2012 #10
kpete Jul 2012 #12
Diclotican Jul 2012 #19
AynRandCollectedSS Jul 2012 #118
nxylas Jul 2012 #13
Diclotican Jul 2012 #15
nxylas Jul 2012 #26
Diclotican Jul 2012 #42
tclambert Jul 2012 #74
Diclotican Jul 2012 #127
DBoon Jul 2012 #34
hifiguy Jul 2012 #49
DBoon Jul 2012 #53
hifiguy Jul 2012 #60
nxylas Jul 2012 #65
bongbong Jul 2012 #92
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #82
Jessy169 Jul 2012 #16
Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #25
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #83
Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #142
Diclotican Jul 2012 #52
Third Doctor Jul 2012 #58
Diclotican Jul 2012 #126
Chorophyll Jul 2012 #11
caseymoz Jul 2012 #14
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #22
PavePusher Jul 2012 #29
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #37
Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #54
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #61
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #84
caseymoz Jul 2012 #133
kiva Jul 2012 #64
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #67
kiva Jul 2012 #116
caseymoz Jul 2012 #132
Amonester Jul 2012 #24
Serve The Servants Jul 2012 #110
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #38
hack89 Jul 2012 #45
hughee99 Jul 2012 #46
TheMightyFavog Jul 2012 #56
Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #17
RedStateLiberal Jul 2012 #18
gtar100 Jul 2012 #35
RedStateLiberal Jul 2012 #44
MountainMama Jul 2012 #75
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #86
RedStateLiberal Jul 2012 #87
tblue37 Jul 2012 #121
RedStateLiberal Jul 2012 #122
tblue37 Jul 2012 #137
closeupready Jul 2012 #20
upaloopa Jul 2012 #23
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #32
Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #62
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #63
bongbong Jul 2012 #94
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #106
bongbong Jul 2012 #111
Walk away Jul 2012 #129
bongbong Jul 2012 #136
Walk away Jul 2012 #138
bongbong Jul 2012 #139
Walk away Jul 2012 #140
amuse bouche Jul 2012 #36
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #70
ellisonz Jul 2012 #124
patrice Jul 2012 #47
calimary Jul 2012 #59
PatrynXX Jul 2012 #48
DiverDave Jul 2012 #55
Cheap_Trick Jul 2012 #69
B Calm Jul 2012 #71
felix_numinous Jul 2012 #72
Tobin S. Jul 2012 #105
felix_numinous Jul 2012 #115
xchrom Jul 2012 #76
Blue_Tires Jul 2012 #79
bongbong Jul 2012 #89
Skittles Jul 2012 #96
Shadowflash Jul 2012 #109
47of74 Jul 2012 #112
colsohlibgal Jul 2012 #113
Skittles Jul 2012 #125
stevenleser Jul 2012 #141

Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:08 PM

1. Lawn furniture kills thousands each year!

 

Like cars and swimming pools.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:28 PM

21. Why must we be a slave to BIG LAWN FURNITURE and its lobby of death!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Johonny (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:46 PM

27. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Johonny (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:42 PM

73. My long-tail cat says we should at least outlaw rocking chairs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tclambert (Reply #73)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:11 PM

104. My manx says outlaw rabbit season.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tclambert (Reply #73)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 01:42 PM

134. Of course he does.


He already has a right to keep and bear claws.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:53 PM

31. a small price to pay, I say

to protect our constitutionally guaranteed right to lounge outdoors

You'll have to excuse me, I'm going to celebrate our history of freedom by lounging and swilling a patriotic American beer along with freedom fries.

Thankful that the commies can't take my lawn furniture away

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DBoon (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:29 PM

57. The National Lawn Chair Association (NLCA) has captured Congress. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:20 PM

77. Lawn furniture doesn't kill people...

people with lawn furniture kill people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rateyes (Reply #77)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:48 PM

119. Hey, if everyone just carried their own lawn furniture the world would be a

a much safer place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rateyes (Reply #77)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 03:06 AM

123. I'll give you my chaise lounge when you pry it from my cold dead hands, you commie!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:59 PM

120. Obama is going to take your lawn furniture away.

You laugh now. We'll see who's laughing when you have grass stains on your clothes from sitting and lying on your lawn.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:01 PM

135. You can cite statistics to back it up, right?


That lawn furniture kills thousands.

The main difference is, when casualties of cars and swimming pools are mentioned, you never hear fans of them argue "Guns kill a lot of people, too." or "People don't drown in pools, they drown in people." Somehow, I don't think the first would help the defenders cause much. Whereas the second would immediately be laughed off. Why?

At least the benefit traded-off for deaths of cars and pools is fairly well known, and not very controversial. A car will get you to work, and only occasionally kill. Nobody protests putting safety devices on either. They can conceivably be made safer and less deadly because neither one are designed to kill people in the most convenient and effective way possible. If you're in a pitched battle, would you want an M16, or a swimming pool?

And, let's face it, both a car and a pool aren't the right tools. Killing with either one is like driving a nail with a vise grip.

Due to goals regardless of facts, debates about guns never go anywhere. I support the Second Amendment, but at least gun fans should admit that if you want gun rights interpreted to be an individual one, and applicable to so much, you are going to have consequences. Aurora was another consequence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:09 PM

2. Kicked and DU Recommended!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:11 PM

3. It extends to other countries too now. We must be sure that they have any and all of the guns

we can pump into them, or our guns will be taken away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:18 PM

4. K&R! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:20 PM

5. Delicate flowers, all of them.

yes. yes, right.





Tom Tomorrow is absolutely brilliant. Actually, it's amazing how CONSISTENTLY brilliant he is!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:47 PM

28. +1 on the "consistently brilliant" comment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:27 PM

6. Perfect

Just rinse and repeat, evidently.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:29 PM

7. That should be on the NRA homepage

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:30 PM

8. DU feels like free republic after every massacre.

The NRA has one powerful deathgrip on this country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 12:31 PM

9. Just remember that you have never been safer in your lifetime

and next year you will be safer yet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:52 PM

30. DUzy.

For sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to hack89 (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:02 PM

39. Sorry, only one award per week.

Ya know, in light of these senseless mass killings I don't feel any safer. Do you?

50 years ago the American populace wasn't arming itself to the hilt to protect against crackpots like this guy with easily-obtained weapons at every turn.

Post all the links you want.

This society has lost it's way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #39)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:03 PM

40. A 50 percent drop in murders and manslaughter deaths = "lost it's way"? OK. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:06 PM

41. Yes, i said lost it's way.

That's correct.

I'd go back to life in the 50's in a heartbeat...............fuck this madness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:18 PM

90. Your reply

 

Your reply is to a gun-religionist who I've corrected countless times on his false "logic". He just keeps posting the same lies over & over. Some gun-relgionists are funny in that way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:56 PM

66. If you think those stats are directly related to the number of guns in this country

you are seriously deluded. There are many, many factors that come into play here, including "improvements in US policing tactics, tough sentencing laws that keep recidivists off the streets, an aging population, the popularity of video games that keep young people inside, and even communal solidarity in the face of economic adversity."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0612/US-violent-crime-rate-down-for-fifth-straight-year

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0109/US-crime-rate-at-lowest-point-in-decades.-Why-America-is-safer-now

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zoeisright (Reply #66)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:01 PM

68. I don't believe that

all we can say is that more guns =/= more gun violence.

The facts, though, are indisputable:

1. A lot more guns.

2. A lot fewer gun deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:21 PM

78. The facts, though, are indisputable:

1. A lot more guns.

2. A lot fewer gun deaths.

And of course the FACT that these two things are not necessarily related. There seems to be no causality.

What are the statistics re # of guns and # of shootings, not just deaths. Better medical & safety emergency responses can explain fewer deaths, it seems, long before the amount of guns available can.

Not to even mention that the irrational reading of the 2nd Amendment and irrational gun worship going on today is ridiculous. The "government can't do anything right" crowd uses the 2nd amendment as a political tool, not a right. And I'm sick of this "wild west" fantasy... like Rep Louie Gomert actually believes apparently... his statements seem he thinks 19th century America was a John Wane movie.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12856827-how-not-to-respond-to-a-tragedy?lite

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlbertCat (Reply #78)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:30 PM

81. Well, aggravated assaults are down drastically too

which is how shootings that don't kill anyone are classified. Better medical & safety emergency responses don't explain fewer aggravated assaults - if it was only a question of more people surviving being shot aggravated assaults should rise.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #81)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:42 PM

97. Which is also a factor that tweaks the numbers.

All told, actual cases of gun related crimes of passion MUST be on the rise to fill the gap left by fewer robberies and survivability.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #97)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:46 PM

99. What gap?

assaults, murders and manslaughter are all down. There is no gap.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #99)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:06 PM

103. Take out muggings from overall gun violence and the numbers should be MUCH lower

The fact that they aren't means something took it's place.

Like the assholes arming up and being themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #97)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:49 PM

100. You don't have to guess.

the FBI has all the crime stats you need. Why don't you do some research instead of tossing ideas out?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #100)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:00 PM

102. Naw, tossing ideas out is more fun.

Besides, I'm one of those silly people who've travelled in places where guns are rare and so is gun violence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:27 PM

80. We've had enough gun violence for one day. I don't have the stomach

for bullshit right now. Try next week.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:42 PM

85. The facts, though, are indisputable:

The two are unrelated.

Wanna know why gun deaths have gone down?

People don't carry cash like they used to. Everyone uses an ATM card so there are fewer holdups.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #85)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:12 PM

88. So if the number of guns has no influence on gun violence

why all the talk about too many guns in America? If restricting guns will have no impact then why do it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:20 PM

91. What spin you do!

 

AMAZING tripe you post!

Guns don't decrease gun killings, they increase it. You keep implying the opposite.

Logic doesn't mix with the Gun Religion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:34 PM

95. I know that. But look at the list of motives.

If we didn't have all these guns floating around out there people wouldn't be able to indulge their impulses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:45 PM

98. So more guns caused more killings? Cite please. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #98)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 07:36 PM

114. Oh you time wasting gun relgionists

 

With your endless Strawmen, lies, and illogic. Will it ever end?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:54 PM

101. BTW: I didn't imply the opposite AT ALL. In fact, I'm saying shootings are for worse reasons.

You can relate to a guy doing a stickup. He just wants money.

But people are blowing each other away for sleeping around or getting fired. Then you have the ones out there with what's called, "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and there's certainly no shortage of THEM in America.

If the NRA really was all about responsible gun ownership they would require guns be limited to responsible people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:26 PM

93. You don't get it.

Since holdups went way down because people don't carry cash like they used to the remaining gun violence is motivated by other factors.

So we need to look at motives.

John Travolta in "The General's Daughter" did a good breakdown.

"Possible motives for murder are profit, revenge, jealousy, to conceal a crime, to avoid humiliation & disgrace, or plain old homicidal mania."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:28 PM

117. Wow...

Commit logical fallacies much? I believe that one's called faulty causation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AynRandCollectedSS (Reply #117)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:13 AM

130. I am not saying more guns reduced gun violence

I am saying that more guns did not increase gun violence.

Are you saying there are not more guns? Or are you saying that there is not less gun violence? Tell me what you think is going on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:39 PM

107. the word is ITS

and PLEASE STOP PIMPING

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #107)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:51 PM

108. You do realize that is a direct quote from the other poster?

small minds focused on trivial things also have an issue with comprehension it would appear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:24 AM

128. I feel like this comment has been cut and pasted all day yesterday. So I will too.

So here are the factors which have been discussed and the special interest groups that have taken credit for this:

1) Guns, guns and more guns (uhhhh, you)
2) Improved police work removing repeats from the streets (police chiefs)
3) Changing demographics of an aging population (Demographers)
4) Evolution of the drug trade as the winners shook out (the DEA)
5) More cops in general (politicians)
6) Then you got Steven Levitt saying legalized abortion had its effects. It is about 15 years between legalized abortion and the drop in the rate.
7) Finally, the prison industrial complex. Their graph of incarceration rate vs. year looks JUST like the violent crime rate.

We all used to laugh at the stock communist character who was so blinded by ideology that he'd devise strange and bizarre rationalizations as to why it was communism responsible for only the good and none of the bad in a situation. My microwave has several bags of popcorn and I await a response for the ages as you try to explain how factor 1 is the only critical one and the rest of them are irrelevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pholus (Reply #128)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:17 AM

131. I explicitly said that more guns =/= less violence.

my point is that more guns =/= more violence. Do you see the difference?

Every point on your list is relevant. My post was in response to all those blaming guns for some imaginary epidemic of gun violence. There is a wide spread perception that America is much more violent then it use to be - that perception is wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:17 PM

50. Precious salt for the wounds of the victims, I'd imagine...

Precious salt for the wounds of the victims, I'd imagine...


ed: typo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #50)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:18 PM

51. You are right

it is just that people have lost perspective - there is some good news out there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:00 PM

10. kpete

kpete

I have never understood the US, and the love for the gun... Other nations, who are at least as civilized as US, manage quite well, without a population who have all type of weapons to their disposal... This is a tragedy reagardness if you suport the idea of an armed population or not.. And I somehow doubt the "founding fathers" of the early 1800s, would agree in the idea that everyone could be armed to the teath... I suspect they also would deny a few of the pepole who have guns the right, as they are not stable to have powerfull weapons to their disposabel... And I also suspect, most of the modern weapons who is beeing used was not even invented when the US constitution and some of its admendeds was made public for the first time...

This is just another tragedies, who could have been stooped, if americans had understood that weapons have no place in a modern world - outside of law enforcement and in the military forces... (Yes I know about the Armed Militia who should defend US against outside and inside enemies - but that was the work of the late 1700s, not the modern world of 2012) And I suspect the modern military in the US, capable of cruising most enemies who want to do US wrong, if need ever arise..

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:06 PM

12. Diclotican

humans need to evolve
we learn nothing from history
we repeat our mistakes without the lessons these actions should teach us

The constitution says
"A well-regulated militia"

we have instead a NON-regulated militia.
the forefathers would be shocked and dismayed

peace, kp

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:26 PM

19. kpete

kpete

True we need to evolve - even though I doubt it will evolve as long as so many like the idea about weapons and are willing to use it so much as they do...

I guess, many who talk about a well armed militia either doesn't read the finer print of your constitution, or just doesn't care about the well regulated thing - but read it as a well armed militia, who the government have no control over..

Your forefathers would be shocked and dismayed over many things in the US of today just 236 year after they decided to build a new country... But the non regulated militia who is existing today I think they would be very against too..

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:35 PM

118. Exactly

The 2nd Amendmant has been distorted and perverted beyond recognition by gun zealots. Its original purpose was to keep Americans and their families safe from a British invasion. I think we're in the clear now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:12 PM

13. But other countries with lax gun laws are not as violent

Switzerland, for example. I believe the problem is at least as much a cultural one as a legal one. Paranoia, racism and the fetishisation of gun violence are more to blame than the 2nd amendment, IMO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:20 PM

15. nxylas

nxylas

Many nations here in Europe -have "lax" gun laws, where you are allowed to have guns in your home - as long as they are in cabinets and the weapons are out of sight in the daily use.. Here in Norway, it is a long tradition about hunting, goes back hundreds of years - and it is also many who have guns home - but they are not used outside of the hunting season... And then just for a few weeks at a time.. The rest of the year, the weapons is for the most part kept under control, and for the most part you could not even know who had guns and not, if you do not know them well..

But indeed a cultural code around gun is also one of the reasons the US have so much gun violence.. It is a whole different tradition and a culture around the whole weapons policy in the US, than in many others nations... Hey Even Canada, who have at least as much weapons circulating in the country - have far less gun shoot and murders from the use of guns than just over the border to US.. Why is there so different idea around weapons, even when people live on the same part of the world. I doubt just a border could explain why it is so few gun shots violence in Canada, and so many in the US..

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:44 PM

26. Michael Moore made the same point in Bowling for Columbine

Canada's gun laws are not that different to the US, and yet there are far fewer deaths from gunshot wounds per capita. Moore attributes that to Canadians' much more relaxed and less fearful culture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:08 PM

42. nxylas

nxylas

It is absolutely something to point to, the fact that even when the two country's have more or less the same rules regarding weapons, the whole concept of using weapon as many do in the US is more or less untold about in Canada.. Not because they have less weapons, but mostly because the whole culture regarding weapons is so different...

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #42)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:54 PM

74. I recommend a comedy movie called "Gunless." An American gunslinger finds himself in Canada,

and has great trouble organizing a gunfight because no one in town owns a gun. It's not illegal, they just all think it's stupid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tclambert (Reply #74)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:18 AM

127. tclambert

tclambert

Aha - I guess I have to found that movie.. It sounds like a great movie

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:55 PM

34. other countries have widespread gun ownership

only the US has a religion of gun ownership

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DBoon (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:16 PM

49. True, that. I have considered buying a quality handgun

recently, so I am not reflexively anti-gun. What I do not understand is the perverted - in the truest sense of the word - fetishization of guns in this country. Want to hunt birds or deer or shoot target practice or skeet? Fine with me. Want to collect antique firearms? Cool - some of them are pretty neat and have historical significance.

People who load their homes with dozens of high-powered weapons and enough ammo to supply a company of soldiers for the entire Battle of the Bulge are something else again. Insecure, paranoid, pathological and bedeviled by issues about their "manhood" suggest themselves as accurate descriptors. Those people are, frankly, nuttier than squirrel turds and dangerous to their fellow citizens. Particularly when they need show no evidence of mental stability while acquiring such arsenals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hifiguy (Reply #49)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:22 PM

53. other countries treat firearms as useful tools that can be dangerous

and respect them as such

In the US firearms are the solution to every social problem, every conflict and have a magic power to right all wrongs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DBoon (Reply #53)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

60. Exactly. I recently moved into a neighborhood

that has been transitioning from quite questionable into a pleasant family community over the last few years. Robbery is not common but is not unheard of either. I have been considering purchasing a high-quality firearm for myself (I live alone) that would never leave my home other than to go to firearms training or target practice. I would never carry it on my person. It would be, as you say, a tool strictly for self-defense, should the need for same ever arise. I have a healthy respect for anything that can be dangerous, be it a high-performance car, electricity, large dogs, or a firearm. All are to be approached carefully and respectfully.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DBoon (Reply #53)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:52 PM

65. And are "cool"

I often see Facebook posts from my friends in South Carolina about how they just bought this awesome new Glock with carbonised flanges and .44 widgets or somesuch bollocks. They talk about in the same enraptured tones that Renaissance poets used to describe their loved ones.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #65)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:23 PM

92. Their Precious

 

> They talk about in the same enraptured tones that Renaissance poets used to describe their loved ones.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DBoon (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:34 PM

82. only the US has a religion of gun ownership

Bingo!

It's that wild west fantasy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:21 PM

16. Our gun-nut paranoid heritage

is due in many ways to the history of how America was settled. Early pioneers spreading out across the wide-open spaces of America where the "savages" and dangerous wild animals lurked -- that was the reality from their point of view, and it WAS based on reality. Thousands and thousands of settlers, sleeping with their guns locked and loaded anticipating an attack and need to fire at any moment, their only peace of mind being that loaded gun under their pillow in the wilderness. Add to that the gun-slinging shoot-em-up lore of the wild west that became an intregal part of the American culture. It is no surprise that the "pioneer mentality" and gun-slinging good-versus-bad guy romantic notions still run deep and strong in the American psyche -- especially for those who are not educated or sophisticated enough to mentally overcome that load of crap and irrational fear that has far outlives its usefulness. And especially when we have a huge propaganda machine (Fox, Rush, et. al) that incites and manipulates the fears and uncertainties of the (brain dead, racist, homophobic, ignorant) Republican masses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jessy169 (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:43 PM

25. +1

This mythology is deeply instilled in the American psyche.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:36 PM

83. Hell Hath No Fury

This mythology is deeply instilled in the American psyche.

(emphasis added)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlbertCat (Reply #83)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 02:34 PM

142. +1

A mythology that is happily reinforced in popular culture and by our leaders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jessy169 (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:21 PM

52. Jessy169

Jessy169

You might be right about much of it being a part of the american mentality - but the funny part is that many who have emigrated to the US, long after the wild west was won for the white man - and long after it was a reason behind a well armed militia, still hold the grand idea about having as much weapons as human possible -and not just an handgun or a hunting rifle, but anything under the sun, up to small cannons.. And that is something I have always found weird, and tragicomic for the most part, tragic because it kill so many - comical because they try to be as much an american as they who have being living in the US for generations.. They kind of "overplay" the fact that they are americans... And the gun slunging will west cowboy of the old ages is maybe a part of it all...

And the few I know, who is living in america are not dumb, uneducated arrogant idiots, who also believe gun to be a right, as the right to breathe air, they are smart, well educated who should look true the fog of the extreme right propaganda machine easy as few..


Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Diclotican (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:30 PM

58. Thank you

That's the argument I've been making for years. Firearms that were being made when the US constitution was written were single shot muzzle loaders that would not fire when wet. None of those descriptions apply now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Third Doctor (Reply #58)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:11 AM

126. Third Doctor

Third Doctor

It is funny how many can think the same mind, even long away from each other. What worked in the late 1700s early 1800s, doesn't work now.. And it is clear as daybreak, that the common use of weapons, as it is today, was nothing like the makers of the constitution had in mind when they wrote the case about a well armed militia to protect the country...

Diclotican

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:02 PM

11. K&R. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:15 PM

14. So, how often mass are shootings being stopped?


. . . by lawful, heroic gun owners? I haven't heard of one yet. As these keep happening, the flaw in the argument that guns offer any good defense when somebody has the drop on you will soon be debunked.

It's looking like these Conceal/Carry laws seldom seem to work in these cases, despite the purported "millions" of times guns thwart criminals (A number without any basis in reality, logic or rationality. Forty thousand is the more accurate estimate. I'm quoting from memory, and I think it's high.) In fact, it looks like for mass shootings armed heroes are seldom in the right place at the right time with their guns drawn.

Knowing what I do about fandom, I'm certain there were a few armed people in that crowd. The ones there either never had a clear shot, were outgunned or were too panicked to draw.

No, to stop one of these, you have to draw first. You know what they say if you draw, be prepared to shoot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to caseymoz (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:37 PM

22. Any conceal carry person probably knows these two things.

1. Any gun that can be comfortably carried and not be conspicuous would not be very accurate.

2. To draw and start shooting would most likely just draw attention to yourself and make you a more likely target.

Best to just lie low and wait for the cops, who by the way would probably shoot you when they came in and saw you with a gun. Save the heroics for the movies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:48 PM

29. False memes, much? n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #29)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:01 PM

37. No. Refute much? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:25 PM

54. That's not the worst of it.

A responsible gun owner would simply not shoot in that situation, unless it was a life or death moment and he/she was basically point-black. A crowded, dark theater full of panicky people is no place to shoot back at a gunman. Even if you're a great shot with a pretty darned accurate gun, you're going to hit innocents, not the attacker. Gun owners, assuming they're armed in a theater, are not going to foil an attack like this because they know they'll only make things worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daemonaquila (Reply #54)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

61. That too. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daemonaquila (Reply #54)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:40 PM

84. A responsible gun owner would simply not shoot in that situation,

Then why carry in the 1st place? In case you need to, oh, open a bottle?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daemonaquila (Reply #54)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 01:40 PM

133. If they're responsible and competent, yes.


But, remember, you don't have to prove competence to own a gun. That's presumed if you don't have a criminal record or a history of mental illness.

My point is, it seems the usefulness of guns in thwarting crimes generally is exaggerated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:47 PM

64. Then why carry it?

Seriously, not snark - if your reasons are correct, then why would someone concealed carry?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kiva (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:57 PM

67. I can think of no good reason for an ordinary person to carry. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #67)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:24 PM

116. That's my thought, but

I was wondering if anyone who advocated concealed carry could refute this and show why it still makes sense to carry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 01:36 PM

132. If you wanted to make my argument


You did. There's totally no reason to think licensed weapons are going to make any difference in these incidents.

The usefulness of guns as preventative or defensive guns for citizens is exaggerated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to caseymoz (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:39 PM

24. I saw one here, although nothing suggests it was going to end in a mass...

shooting:



(Watch the two cowards freaking out as they run for their lives...)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Amonester (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:57 PM

110. Stop that.

That is supposed to never, ever happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to caseymoz (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:02 PM

38. Not one. A massive study was done that showed that handgun owners, besides being more

prone to mental illnesses and acts of domestic violence, actually "deterred" or stopped no mass shootings, very little public crime, and that the incidents of such specimens having thwarted home invasions was vastly over-inflated by organizations such as the NRA.

The bottom line was that there was no actual societal utility in letting Paul Kersey-wannabe's strut around our cities with their Phallic Replacement Devices perched in their pants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:12 PM

45. And what study would that be? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:12 PM

46. How does one determine someone has prevented a mass shooting before it happened?

How do you know that one's intention is a mass shooting until they've already done it? Haven't many of the mass shootings occurred in the sort of places where carrying a concealed weapon might be discouraged (like schools), so there's not likely to be as many people carrying handguns in that area?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to caseymoz (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:29 PM

56. And when you take this incident into consideration:

The shooter was in a dark movie theater. He popped a tear gas canister. He was wearing body armor. Pertty well much only a headshot fouls stop him. I don't think even the best operators in the SAS, SEALS, Delta, Green Berets DGSE, GSG-9, Mossad, or KSK commando could pull off a successful kill shot like that with a standard concealed carry pistol that most ccw holders would use

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:24 PM

17. "A man armed to the teeth with rocks...

 

was tossed out by security at a local theater today, after he threw them randomly into the crowd. One man was treated onsite for a minor laceration. Other patrons were just severely annoyed."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:26 PM

18. I'm sick of our country having to pay this price over and over

but I certainly don't want to take everybody's guns away. That's simply ridiculous. I believe in common sense gun control. Why do righties get so pissed off at the idea of common sense laws to control who can legally buy guns, how many they can buy, and what type of gun? I just don't get it. Is EVERYTHING either black or white to them? (I don't mean race) They paint every issue in absolutes which is just not logical. Why can't they THINK????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:01 PM

35. Questions of the century.

Their "reasoning" capacity is flooded by their personal self-interest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gtar100 (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:12 PM

44. That's so true.

They are all about selfishness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #44)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:04 PM

75. My husband explained that one to me....

any effort to register or control guns is seen by them as the first move to take them all away.

I'm with you. I grew up around guns and have shot them. I'm not anti-gun, but I think all common sense has gone out the window. I just don't think you should be able to buy as many guns as you want whenever you want wherever you want. It's ridculous!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:44 PM

86. I believe in common sense gun control.

Well, I want crazy over the top loony tune gun control!




Hello! Everybody wants common sense gun control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlbertCat (Reply #86)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:09 PM

87. I don't think everybody does.

I've run into wingnuts who say there should be no gun control laws at all and I've heard a few people say we should ban all guns. They might be the vast minority of both sides but those opinions do exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:11 AM

121. Here in Kansas, even being blind is not considered

a reason to prevent someone from having a concealed carry license!

Really--blindness was specifically and deliberately removed (by our Republican legislature, of course) as an obstacle to concealed carry.

Doesn't that make you feel all wam and fuzzy?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #121)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:48 AM

122. Wow. That's just nuts.

Why on earth would they do something so stupid? What was their justification? You can't get a license to drive if you're blind but you can carry a concealed handgun?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #122)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 10:26 AM

137. Typical Republican fanatical devotion to extreme positions, that's why. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:28 PM

20. Right, because institutional authority behind Tuskegee and Japanese internment

and slavery of African-Americans can be trusted to keep our best interests in mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:38 PM

23. The gun lobby is well rehearsed in its rhetoric which to me is used to bully everyone who disagrees

with them.

I said it before at times of other shootings. You never hear a gun apologists come out and decry the deaths just more bullying, intimidation and baying all about their rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:54 PM

32. Yep - this cartoon nails it, right down to how cry-babyish our very own "pro-gun progressives"

are when it comes to debating their deranged, deadly fetish. They are always the first ones on that "alert" button, whining to juries about how mistreated they feel when it's factually pointed out that they seem to share a peculiar number of similar outlooks with the right-wing scum in the Republican party in general and the NRA in particular.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:44 PM

62. How narrow minded.

What, progressives have to hate guns, because you say so? Because YOUR personal opinion of what makes a Dem/Progressive is the only one that counts? Because nobody in the Dems/Progressives disagrees on any important points, like health care solutions, how to solve the economic crisis, or drug or gun policy? Please. When you're running around calling fellow Dems deranged and whiny because they disagree with YOUR personal opinion, why should anyone respect what you have to say?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daemonaquila (Reply #62)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:46 PM

63. Case in point right here. Peddle your complaints to someone who gives a fig; I don't. Thanks. n/t.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:27 PM

94. 100%

 

Exactly what has happened to me - several times.

So much SENSITIVITY mixed in with that tough-guy gun-religionist stuff in their heads. No wonder they're so confused.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #94)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:33 PM

106. Yep: they get all a'flutter with outrage when someone calls them on their BS,

and since that's about all our "pro-gun progressives" peddle - NRA bullshit - they find themselves outraged a whole bunch.

I happen to know for a stone cold fact that some of the teariest private whining on DU comes from our "pro-gun progressives," complete with pleas that they are a poor, misunderstood, picked-on "minority" who need special "protection" from mean 'ole progressives who call them out on their NRA-mongering. I also happen to know that many of them know each other from pro-gun websites, and post stuff here that they later brag about having got away with in those same gun forums.

A friend of mine at DU used to send me links to such stuff all the time when we were on DU2.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #106)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 07:10 PM

111. Yes

 

And the gun-relgionists love to waste the time of sane Liberals by posting the same discredited lies & NRA Talking Points. Some of them also do this to increase their post-count so it appears they are actually Liberal.

Another tactic of theirs is to post endless unsupported crap, and if a sane Liberal makes so much as a peep they go "PROVE IT!!!!"

The number of the rabid gun-religionists who ALSO post in non-gungeon threads is vanishingly small - kinda like the Higgs Bosun (even rarer than the Higgs Boson)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #111)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:22 AM

129. I few years ago I "blocked" everyone posting in the Gungeon...

It took months but it was worth it because I didn't have to read their bullshit in the "Latest" forum. I made an exception for the folks who were obviously posting for more restrictive gun laws (a brave few).

The result? If I went to the gun forum almost every post was blocked but anywhere else? It didn't block any posts at all. I couldn't believe it. I thought surely a few Gun people posted in the General Discussion. Not one that I saw. Then we changed DU and I never had the time to waste on fixing it again.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Walk away (Reply #129)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 09:07 PM

136. Work

 

Sounds like you did a lot of work on your ignore list, and all for naught when they went to DU3.

I just mock and laugh at the gun-relgionists. Their "arguments" are so illogical and hole-filled, it's almost as if they're just copying Talking Points from the latest NRA Bulletin (obviously they are). Watching them squirm as they attempt to defend their Precious is frequently hilarious. I guess I just enjoy getting a laugh from (easily) out-arguing them. It's a form of nostalgia for me; I lettered in debate in high school and it's like shooting fish in a barrel. (intentional gun pun)

I know why they're here; somebody is actively trying to move the gun-Overton Window to the right, and to get groups like Liberals to "love" or at least "meh" guns. The DU gun-relgionists are just following orders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #136)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:34 PM

138. It seems to me that most of them are not Democrats or Liberals.

But if you call them on it their head spin. Every once and a while the post a poll asking DUers about gun laws and it always comes out that a large percentage of DUers are in favor of lax, NRA style laws like "open carry" in parks etc. Do you believe that's possible? They crow about it for a few weeks and use it as part of their "proof" that their "freedom" is more important than everyone else's.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Walk away (Reply #138)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 04:14 PM

139. Paiddddd posters

 

> Every once and a while the post a poll asking DUers about gun laws and it always comes out that a large percentage of DUers

Don't believe it. Look for the Rolling Stone article about the Rendon Group for more info. And in addition fascist organizations like the NRA now openly call for their members to flood political chat boards to make it look like their fascist positions are popular.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #139)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 11:50 AM

140. I figured as much. What sane person would object to sensible restrictions?

Plus they just keep posting articles about old people defending themselves from the bad/dark or young people. They don't sound like anyone I know and I have met plenty of people who keep a gun for protection or hunting. They seem to actually love guns and the thought of using them against their "threatening assailants".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:01 PM

36. Excellent toon

In one year, people murdered by guns--35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada, and 9,484 in the United States.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to amuse bouche (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:10 PM

70. Those numbers abroad would be almost as good as ours

if only everyone in Oz, the EU/UK and Canada were allowed to carry weapons with 30+ bullets in them on their hip (or in their boots, for the really cool kids).

Someday, they will catch up to us.

USA! USA! USA!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #70)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 03:17 AM

124. Merica, fuck yeah!

USA! USA! USA!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:15 PM

47. Love the bit about "... you delicate flower, you." Soooo incisive! So spot on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to patrice (Reply #47)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:30 PM

59. Reminds me of something Garrison Keillor said

musing about the absolute refusal of the knuckledraggers to see any reason to raise taxes on the rich, who can afford to help shoulder a little more of the burden, and what he called "the suffering of billionaires."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:15 PM

48. already had that from my paranoid brother

this morning zzzzz idiot. no nobody is gonna take your guns away and I don't think the assault weapons ban in Denver (not Aurora woulda made any difference..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:25 PM

55. Spot on

thanks for posting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:06 PM

69. A-fucking-men nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:15 PM

71. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to felix_numinous (Reply #72)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:24 PM

105. A lot of food for thought there

I feel like I should say something in response, but I'm not sure what it is.

Noam Chomsky said, not too awful long ago, that he thinks America is still the free-est country on the planet. He's probably taking into account, among many things, the freedoms we have regarding guns.

Violence sells...I think you've got that right. It sells air time on news shows. It sells magazines and newspapers and books. It sells movies and TV shows. I wonder if that guy who shot up the movie theater in a twisted way had irony in mind by doing so before a film that probably does a bit of violence glorifying. A kind of "You like that? Here's the real thing!" Too bad that guy couldn't keep the war contained to his mind and get proper help. I suppose he'll get all kinds of mental health treatment now. You have to be declared sane for the state to put you to death.

I'm a non-violent kind of guy now days. I don't own any guns either. I just don't feel like I need them. When I was a kid I was naturally easy going as well, but my mom and step-dad told me that if I was picked on I should fight to get respect. And I did fight even though it totally went against my nature. I got my butt kicked in the seventh grade by a guy who was bullying me when I decided to try to fight back. I had braces on my teeth and he just busted my mouth wide open. A teacher grabbed us and took us to the principal's office. This kid was much bigger than me and feared by many in our class. But there we were sitting together and I'm bleeding all over the place. The principal knew what had happened and told the other kid, "Look what you did to him." I could see regret in the bully's face and he apologized. Then the principal sent me to the nurse. A strange thing happened after that. The bully and I became friendly toward one another. I think we both did a lot of growing up in that principal's office. I only got into into one fight after that, but it was purely self defense.

It seems like many boys are taught from a young age that they have to be tough and even violent to get what they want in life. I bet Romney was taught that and it manifested itself in his corporate raids with Bain. Bush appears to have been taught that and it manifested itself in two deadly and unnecessary wars.

See what you done did? You gone and made me think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tobin S. (Reply #105)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:03 PM

115. Thank you

for such a respectful response. My point of view is not always received well, by gun owners, game players, or people who want to ban all guns. I am somewhere in between (story of my life!! )

There is a lot to think about--and that is exactly what we need to do.

I don't like seeing the erosion of our constitutional rights--by distorting what they mean, nor by allowing ourselves to have a knee-jerk reaction to a violent and upsetting event and agreeing to give them up. The solution lies somewhere between these two extremes, or we risk perpetuating the problem by overreaction.

I just remember the Patriot Act, and how they presented to us, as a 'temporary measure' that turned out to be permanent. I was uncomfortable about it then and I am uncomfortable with a possibility of another version of it now.

What always happens is that the peaceful citizens end up suffering consequences of crackdowns, while the cartels, people with connections and money, continue to make out like bandits.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace~~fn

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:19 PM

76. du rec. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:21 PM

79. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:16 PM

89. Last panel right on

 

I've been alerted over & over by the "I'm soooooo sensitive!" gun-relgionists when they hated what I posted.

What a rare creature a gun-relgionist is! They're armed to the teeth (frequently) yet they're such crybabies! Freud would have fun in the gungeon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:40 PM

96. that is the TRUTH

FUCK THE NRA and fuck the Gungeon too

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:52 PM

109. Kicked and DU Recommended!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 07:18 PM

112. It's the truth, and those not liking it should go F themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 07:30 PM

113. 2nd Amendment Nonsense

That amendment was written for the militia types in the 19th century. Indians aren't coming out of the nearby forest for you in your cabin in 2012.

A rifle if you feel the need to shoot animals is one thing...but no normal citizen needs an AK-47 or 33 bullets w/o reloading. At the very least it should be much, much harder to buy firearms than it is in this country now..

It's quite astonishing that a powerful crank organization of gun nuts have the dem establishment cowering in the corner, afraid to fight back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #113)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:19 AM

125. CORRECT

it now covers paranoid gun nuts

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 11:51 AM

141. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread