Holy Crap - Mitt runs a death camp for troubled teens!

[Scuba]

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/dark_side_of_a_bain_success/

When the morning staff arrived at 7 a.m., they discovered Brendan facedown on the floor of the Purple Room, his body already stiff with rigor mortis. The state’s chief medical examiner later determined that Blum had died of a twisted-bowel infarction, which requires emergency surgical intervention.

...

The failure at Youth Care was not due simply to the carelessness of a few workers — a point underscored when a Utah court found that the threshold needed to pursue criminal negligence charges against the two monitors in 2008 wasn’t met and the charges were dismissed. And it wasn’t the only example of alleged negligence or abuse at treatment centers for adult addicts and “troubled teens” that are owned by Aspen’s parent company, CRC Health Group, according to a Salon investigation based on government reports, court filings and official complaints by parents and employees, along with interviews with former clients and staff.

...

Court documents and ex-staffers also allege that such incidents reflect, in part, a broader corporate culture at Aspen’s owner, CRC Health Group, a leading national chain of treatment centers. Lawsuits and critics have claimed that CRC prizes profits, and the avoidance of outside scrutiny, over the health and safety of its clients. (We sent specific questions on these basic allegations to CRC and owner Bain Capital. CRC would answer only general questions; Bain did not reply.)

And CRC’s corporate culture, in turn, reflects the attitudes and financial imperatives of Bain Capital, the private equity firm founded by Mitt Romney. (The Romney campaign also did not reply to written questions.) Bain is known for its relentless obsession with maximizing shareholder value and revenues. Indeed, this has become a talking point of late on the Romney campaign trail; he bragged to Fox in late May that “80 percent of them [Bain investments] grew their revenues.” CRC, a fast-growing company then in the lucrative field of drug treatment, was perhaps a natural fit when Bain acquired it for $720 million in 2006. In conversations with staff and patients who spent time at CRC facilities since the takeover, there are suggestions that the Bain approach has had its effects. “If you look at their daily profit numbers compared to what they charge,” Dana Blum said of CRC’s Aspen division in 2009, “it’s obscene.” That point, ironically enough, was underscored by the glowing reports in the trade press about its profitability.

Per the article, there have been six deaths at the treatment center since Bain/CRC bought it. Profits over all else, right Mitt?

[Wounded Bear]

1. Drip, drip, drip.......

Wow, sad story, but not unexpected when medical care gets taken over by for-profit entities.

The fact that the group is a Bain Capital subsidiary just adds to W Mitt's slime ball image.

[get the red out]

2. I've read other articles about teen treatment centers

From what I've read, many will keep the child as long as possible in order to milk the parents' insurance all they can, and even the parents savings. I've read that in many of these institutions the kids are so traumatized that they come out much worse than they went in. It's like parents catch their kid smoking pot and send them to "treatment" and when they come out the parents are broke and their child has horrific PTSD. Not a good outcome.

I don't know about this center specifically, but there have been a large number of horror stories associated with this type of set-up.

[Patiod]

8. A young friend of ours came out a mess

The stuff she told us about it was horrific. Her mom died, and her aunt wasn't up to the job of raising a kid who had already been traumatized by her mom's cancer and subsequent death, so the aunt (a Teaparty enthusiast, incidentally) sent her to Casa by the Sea.

When that facility was closed by the Mexican government, instead of thinking "maybe this isn't the place for this child", she sought out ANOTHER WWASP prison, and incarcerated her there until she reached 18. Then she turned her out on her own. With predictable results.

There is nothing but harshness, cruelty, and capitalist indoctrination in these centers - they were not allowed to speak to or look at one another, but instead forced to listen to Tony Robbins, Zig Zigler etc for hours every day instead of being allowed any human interaction.

[knitter4democracy]

16. I've had students come back seriously traumatized.

Teen death camp isn't an exaggeration. What they did to my students was despicable and disgusting. They are truly evil people.

[progressivebydesign]

26. I worked for a residential treatment center, a REAL one for kids in the 80s.

What a world of difference. They had employed actual psychiatrists, and psych techs, and qualified counselors, for the kids. The house staff had to have psych college credits and were supervised closely and trained. The kids were treated with respect, and there were protocols on how to respond when any of them got out of control. I remember there was a controversy with one kid who acted out violently and tried to take out a few of the staff in an office. He was restrained, and we had all kinds of investigations, etc. because they held him down against his will.

That place would never have gotten away with the for-profit model of care. They have been there since the 30s, and are probably still around.

[freshwest]

87. They are, and under relentless attack by privatizers, who want to profit to the max, until dead.

[obamanut2012]

75. A lot of gay kids get sent to these4 places, too

There's a reason so many of them are in Utah: very lax oversight regulations.

[get the red out]

77. Very red state

It figures. It's so easy to get buy with child abuse by using the word "treatment". Frightening.

[Patiod]

3. Romney is hip-deep in the Youth Abuse industry

http://wwaspdiaries.com/2011/10/07/the-mitt-romney-troubled-teen-connection/

This hits home with me because a young friend was badly abused in one of these centers (it was so bad that the Mexican government actually closed down one of the facilities in which she was imprisoned -- Casa by the Sea, which was one of the facilities run by Mitt's former finance director)

[HelpmeHelp]

4. This article has been VERY helpful for me. I can avoid the CRC

facilities while looking for a Dual Diagnosis facility for my son.

[nolabear]

9. Good luck with your son. And do be very, very careful.

There are good places, but these kids are very vulnerable as I'm sure you know and, like little ones and the elderly, are often not believed when they should be. Transparency, transparency, transparency.

[backscatter712]

5. This seems like a good time to remind everyone that Romney also funded "pray-away-the-gay" "therapy"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/26/romney-charity-money-went-to-pray-away-the-gay-group/

[patrice]

12. 1++++++++++++

[patrice]

14. Agreed. Though that would NOT* fall under the issue of Mental/Behavioral Health parity in insurance

coverage, in order to get a grip on outfits like Bain/CRC Health Group doing "pray-away-the-gay".

But, maybe something like health coverage parity for Family Therapy in dealing with their LGBT members . . . ?

*NOT - because LGBT are not sick; it's the families who are dysfunctional about them.

[patrice]

6. The "successfull" Bain business model in action. nt

[patrice]

7. Mental & Behavioral Health PARITY in the PPACA N-O-W! nt

[Bossy Monkey]

10. He said, "Corporations are people, my friend." He just forgot to mention they're murderous people nt

[patrice]

11. Poorly paid low-level workers AFRAID to "buck the system" and make a decision about care:

“They didn’t trust our judgment in emergency situations,” explains Josh Randall, a former Youth Care residential monitor, who wasn’t on duty that night. “If you’re working for $9.50 an hour on the graveyard shift, you don’t want to buck the system.” At any rate, the monitors had little expertise in how to respond — it was an entry-level job requiring only a GED, plus a CPR and safety course overseen by Youth Care itself.

[Scuba]

15. Thanks for adding. I very relunctantly removed this para to comply with the limit of four.

[patrice]

17. You are welcome. I'm sensitive to these issues, because of family experiences with

youth - AND - elders.

[Dalai_1]

13. OMG

we will be hearing more about this!
Thank you for posting !

[tosh]

18. K&R.

Truly obscene!

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Your tittle is a tad over the top

having had relatives who actually died at an actual death camp... (Treblynka)... you might want to reconsider the tittle.

And yes, they should have been held accountable, not necessarily the staff, the company.

[Scuba]

20. A tad perhaps. I debated, but in the end I'm OK with it.

Those who died at Mitt's hands are just as dead, are they not?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yeah, but there is a difference, big difference, at policy level

show me where that was the intent. I can show you, just from the Wanse documents where that was the intent.

[proverbialwisdom]

90. Film recommendation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_film

[img][/img]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436364/

The rise of national socialism in Germany should not be regarded as a conspiracy of madmen. Millions of "good" people found themselves in a society spiralling into terrible chaos. A film about then, which illuminates the terrors of now.

Storyline
John Halder is a 'good' and decent individual with family problems: a neurotic wife, two demanding children and a mother suffering from senile dementia. A literary professor, Halder explores his personal circumstances in a novel advocating compassionate euthanasia. When the book is unexpectedly enlisted by powerful political figures in support of government propaganda, Halder finds his career rising in an optimistic current of nationalism and prosperity. Seemingly inconsequential decisions lead to choices, which lead to more choices... with eventually devastating effect. Written by Anonymous

Wrong is wrong and often insiduously minimized, as demonstrated in GOOD. RECOMMENDED + Special Features.

[4th law of robotics]

27. I think intent is a factor

if someone chokes to death at a restaurant you own have you murdered them?

[Scuba]

29. I never implied that Mitt's "death camp" was the equivalent of any other.

[4th law of robotics]

32. Death camp has a pretty well understood meaning

and it doesn't mean a camp where someone happened to die.

If so a lot of summer camps and retreats are death camps.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. This is from Websters

death camp noun

Definition of DEATH CAMP

: a concentration camp in which large numbers of prisoners are systematically killed

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death%20camp

Pretty accepted meaning, don't you think?

[Scuba]

36. This is also from Websters...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole

hy·per·bo·le noun \hī-ˈpər-bə ˌ lē\

Definition of HYPERBOLE: extravagant exaggeration (as “mile-high ice-cream cones”)

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Yes, you engaged in it, and I called you on it

for the record, if you used that hyberbole to compare this to the Tutsi massacre, you would be called on it as well. Some hyperbole is in really bad taste.

[patrice]

44. It's not 100% the same. Neither is it 100% different as you are trying to make it. There ARE

similarities and differences and it DISHONORS both to deny that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. ( WARMING GRAPHIC) So tell me, what exactly is similar

in the death of a teen (as horrible as it is) to the death of 20 million people done by the state?

Here some more photos.







For the record here are some real comparisons from Serbia






You see that was a proper comparison, fitting the term, CONCENTRATION CAMP. Thankfully the Serbians never quite developed FULLY, and not for lack of trying, DEATH CAMPS.

But you are seriously comparing these camps run by a subsidiary of Bain Capital with that... seriously.

[get the red out]

43. Torture camp for sure

Because there is real damage done and an intention of punishing into compliance.

[patrice]

22. That's so very very sad. I am sorry & I think identifying the SIMILARITY in what it was that

did that to your relatives, with the same thing that does the same thing in a different manner on another scale, honors your relatives by telling the truths about this hideous thing that reaches throughout time and across borders.

And, as someone with a family member, a young man, who died because he could not get appropriate care, I have first hand knowledge of how what killed him was the same thing as what killed your family members too. I also don't imagine that you wish to imply that your family members suffering is somehow more ___________ than other human suffering. Different? yes, but IMHO, not ESSENTIALLY different.

There are also different kinds of deaths, not all of them physical, so we might speculate that these CRC death camps could be involved in other forms of oppression that, while not killing a person's body, can result in the loss of their own unique humanity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. The camps are horrible on their own

but the comparison is so way off the top it is not even funny.

For the record, if the comparison was done to any other known policy of mass killing, I would have the exact same reaction... because it is way over the top.

[randome]

50. I agree. If saying the IRS is like the gestapo is wrong then so is the term 'death camp'.

[The Magistrate]

23. Close Enough For Government Work, Ma'am: Romney Profits From Teen Murder!

Killing of youth finances dancing horse!

"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. No, not close enough for government work

not by a stretch. Show me where in Bain Capital policy, the methodical killing of people is enshrined. They are evil enough. But this is not close for government work by any means, shape or form.

OTOH, I can show you documents from the Third Reich, Wanse conference comes to mind, where mass killing is in place.

So no, not even close to government work.

In fact, they don't benefit form this. There is no profit in the death of these kids.

[The Magistrate]

33. To Profit From It, Ma'am, Is Sufficient For The Attack Line

Romney pockets cash from murder of teen; cash pays for a few moments of wife's dancing horse; your kid's life is worth a short smile on his wife to R-Money; is this what you want as President of the United States, a man who would kill your kids for pocket-change?

"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Again go argue with Websters

death camp noun

Definition of DEATH CAMP

: a concentration camp in which large numbers of prisoners are systematically killed

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death%20camp

The term has a very well known definition.

And no, he does not profit from it.

1.- It brings attention, lower number of clients/

2.- Potential lawsuit.

3.- You do not get all the money you could from a DEAD client.

[patrice]

41. Language lives, books are only its calcifications. & Re getting money from a DEAD client, I hope

you'll read up on a wide-spread practice in American "health" "care" known as Risk Management and perhaps also take a close look at CMS reporting systems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Familiar, this is the worst kind of hyperbole I have seen on DU

in a LOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time.

[patrice]

47. Please respond to the questions. :-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. It is quite simple

you are comparing a state policy that willfully and systematically killed 20 million people with corporate policies. That my friend IS hyperbole of the worst kind.

You insist on the Nazi analogy, wrong decade... the 1930s medical practices would be a little closer.

[Scuba]

81. Nadine, I respect your sensibilities and don't want to offend. Sincere question though...

Is my use of "death camps" to describe Mitt's business any more offensive than using "inquisition" to describe tough questioning?

Would you also object to using "inquisition"? If so, why?

Sincere question. I in no way want to minimize the horrors of Nazi Germany but I'm not seeing my use of the term as doing that. If you can help me see it differently, I'll change the title.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Actually inquisition is used in that way

Here you go


Main Entry: inquisition ?[in-kwuh-zish-uhn, ing-] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: official inquiry
Synonyms: cross-examination, inquiry, interrogation, investigation, third degree, trial

Here is the entry from Roget's for Death Camp

Main Entry: death camp
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: concentration camp where prisoners are systematically killed
Synonyms: Auschwitz, death factory, extermination camp, killing fields

[Scuba]

83. So it's OK for "inquisition" to be used as hyperbole, but not "death camp"?

I'm sorry, but again I fail to see the distinction. Fact is I hear "death camp" occasionally used in ordinary conversation.

"That factory is a death camp."

"Going through Paris Island in August was like being in a death camp."

Whether or not Roget's cites this is immaterial.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. read the theseaurus definition AGAIN

Thesaurus, words with similar meanings...

It should be obvious, but I guess language is not obvious anymore.

The synonyms to death camp are things like Auschwitz and killing fields.

The synonyms... never mind, if you do not get it from actual Roget's thesaurus, I think I cannot help you.

[Scuba]

85. Reasonable people can disagree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Yup, problem is I gave you both dictionary

And thesaurus definitions.

I guess you are also disagreeing with linguists on this one.

And what you think is hyperbole for inquisition, is actually in the thesaurus entry for inquisition.

Where is the shrug emoticon?

[patrice]

48. Can you imagine that some might regard your position as hyperbolic? TTE, "NO comparison whatsoever!"

Scratch a "Leftie" find what might be a fascist, every time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. You can call me all the names in the world

but willful disregard of history puts you in a worst place.

For the record, that also tells me that you do not know what fascist means either... like all my "friends" in the RW, don't know what communism is either. Do yourself a favor and INVEST in a dictionary. These days they even are in electronic form and fairly cheap.

[patrice]

58. Why don't you answer my questions? Or just say you don't know or don't care? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. What question, I did.

If you insist in using nazis for your analogies, death camps are not it. The policies of the INSURANCE industry are closer to what happened in the 1930s, which also tells me, you have NO FRACKING CLUE of the history of the Nazi regime.

Another book you should invest on, for the intro to it, Rise and Fall of Nazi Germany by Shirer.

He goes into details into THAT period of the Nazi regime that actually HAS SOME PARALLELS to what is going on today.

But hey, if you are going to engage in holocaust denial by willfully ignoring the horrors, I can't help you.

There are more recent books than Shirer's but he's a fairly decent intro, even with the vast amount of historiography done on it since it first went to print.

Oh silly me, I forgot, books are a sign of the authoritarian...

[patrice]

65. I will not be distracted by your mischaracterization of my position. What question? My question abou

t your understanding of what Risk Management is in "health" "care" services and also my question about what you know of CMS reporting systems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Yes, once again, carefully rereaad this

they are closer to the policies of the 1930s, if you insist on using Nazis, and even that one would be weak, but closer.

[patrice]

25. The crime matters for a million people BECAUSE it matters for one person and, if it doesn't

matter for one person, then it doesn't matter for a million people.

THAT's what killed your relatives and my nephew.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Again, the comparison is way over the top,

nowhere in their policies do their benefit from the death of a client. I can show you where the Third Reich intended to kill people.

[patrice]

38. There are intentions and then there are intentions. The organic mechanisms that "intend" are not

a light-switch, TTE, intention-on or intention-off.

A spectrum is a better model, a moving shifting spectrum, processes within processes, of which that which we refer to as "consciousness", i.e. in this case what can be identified as intent, is only a small fraction.

Have you ever visited low-end urban, or better yet rural, long term care? How might we characterize what is intended there?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Yes, and no, it is not a death camp

sorry.

From websters

death camp noun

Definition of DEATH CAMP

: a concentration camp in which large numbers of prisoners are systematically killed

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death%20camp

[patrice]

46. Your absolutist dependence upon a BOOK suggests autocratic intent. Correct me if I am wrong. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. (WARNING GRAPHIC) You mean we should all abandon a dictionary for accepted definitions?

What is next, not using the thesaurus too? Or perhaps we should forget history? I was not going to do this, but this is what a death camp looks like.

You argue with that.







So you tell me that I am being autocratic by actually, I don't know RELYING ON HISTORY and ACCEPTED DEFINITIONS? The horror, I know.

It looks to me that you are engaging in a fallacy there... as well as a willful ignorance of a well known and accepted past.

[patrice]

57. Abandon? No, you're the one proposing FALSE-dichotomies here. I'm just saying don't mistake

words for reality. I'm saying different things CAN share certain essential traits out there in the real world of human experience, you know, the one that ISN'T in books.

You're saying a book is more important than the experiences of these people in CRC facilities and those like them, NOW. You are saying that the SAME truth that made both this and that possible does not exist.

Why soooooooooooooooo threatened? Ownership issues? Ownership is usually driven by power and the desire for "more" power. Not so?

Appearing threatened by a truth suggests at least some grounds for questions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. The one engaging in a false dichotomy, and you are following

is the OP...

So are you Patrice...

I will be here all day... way over the top with the OP and you are willfully going into it, showing me you have NO FRACKING CLUE of the history of that period, none whatsoever.

I should not be too shocked, Americans usually don't know even major accepted events.

[patrice]

62. And I'll save you the trouble before you go there: You are going to need to point to where I said

those pictures are NOT pictures of death camps.

Odd that you can't see that no one is disputing your claim about the death camps in these pictures. Wouldn't such a dispute be fundamentally contradictory to the claim that CRC runs death camps too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Again, engage in more hyperbole

go for it...

You need to pick up a history book or two

[patrice]

69. And you need to put them down and go out and discover that people everywhere have the same

rights as those in your pictures did.

If a right does not apply to everyone throughout all time it isn't a right; it's a privilege. If it's wrong for death camps to happen, how can it not also be wrong for one person to die in legally defined CONSTRAINTS in a CRC facility? Why are you saying one group has more need for justice than another?

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Well when it comes to rights

why I wrote, the company needs to be investigated, and prosecutions need to happen. But that prosecution does not fit the level of a crime against humanity, in my view probably second degree at best for the staff.

And the company should face the music in CIVIL COURT.

That is the difference we are talking about here, are we not? You are tying to make a criminal\ civil mater, into a war crime.

Perspective helps... usually.

Oh and what amazes me is that you are arguing with me and telling me to put my books down, when I have actually been engaged in refugee interviews, that actually were victims of genocide. That is the part that amazes me. These folks by the way, the family of this teen, has a better chance of having their day in court, than the victims of genocide I helped debrief... again, perspective could be useful.

[patrice]

73. I need to go exercise. Nice talking to you, . . . really. :-) Have a good day.

[Flatulo]

94. All I can think is, if we call these youth treatment centers 'Death Camps' then what

The hell do we call actual death camps??!

The comparison is so absurd that I have no words.

[hue]

52. for the Ones who were killed it IS a death camp!!

The killing of one innocent child is like killing an entire world! And it looks like they suffered there for quite a while before they passed--without their parents or family! Actually this, in some ways, is worse than a death camp as the rich got richer from the children's suffering!
I wouldn't be definition perfect when it comes to vulnerable children dying!

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. No it is not

you are seriously comparing the willful execution of 20 million people with this? It is hyperbole of the worst kind.

The COMPANY should face the music, for at least negligence, but please do find me the actual extermination plans in company policy.

[Flatulo]

107. I read an awful lot of posts on DU that strike me as pretty ridiculous, but

this one is extra-special.

The Nazis employed their top engineers and scientists at the task of inventing completely new and more efficient methods for exterminating human beings en mass. They invented new poison gases, like Zyclon, because carbon monoxide was too weak. They employed architects and engineers surveyors and builders to clear the land, design camps, layout ingress and egress roads, build disposal ovens, and developed an entire infrastructure around the business of the extermination of living souls.

They did all this work - spent millions of Deutschmarks - because their stated goal was the the annihilation of an entire race. They set to the task like we set to the task of going to the moon. They had schedules, budgets, progress reports. People were hird and fired and promoted and demoted based on how well they performed at reaching the goal of annihilation of the Jewish people.

Since there were so many Jews, literally tens of millions scattered throuoghout Europe, this was a really, really big job. But because the Germans were such clever, industrious and hard-working people, they did a pretty darn good job of it.

So tell me again how the accidental death of a youth by under-trained and underpaid workers compares to the death camps. I'm just dying to understand this.

[progressivebydesign]

24. So where do you begin with this stuff? There are so many things outrageously wrong.

1) Mistreatment of the residents, leading to death and injury.

2) Exorbitant prices that are paid for by our insurance companies AND our SCHOOL DISTRICTS (talk about fleecing the taxpayers!)

3) Paying people barely minimum wage to care for the residents, then ignoring the employee's input.

4) Not staffing higher paid and more specialized employees.

5) Taking yet another company and borrowing millions against it for acquisition fees" and saddling it with 600 million in debt.

6) Again, buying up smaller companies to dominate an industry, and fleece the taxpayers.

Of all of this, I think the thing that will resonate most with people (even beyond the death and injuries,) is that these companies are charging 15k to 20k a month, and we're paying it through our insurance premiums and our tax dollars. No wonder the school districts are going broke, and WHO is profiting? Well.. Mitt and his investors again with their Super PACs. No wonder he doesn't want anyone to see his tax returns. He has found a way to fleece America, and move the wealth to his friends. What a scumbag.

[LongTomH]

37. This is the tip of the iceberg....these 'youth camps' are a major industry!

There's a network of private 'treatment centers' and hospitals for troubled teens, with conditions ranging from simple neglect to outright abuse. Some of them take kids imprisoned by courts; most will take kids sent because their parents couldn't handle them, or just didn't want to bother.

In many cases, the way the school deals with an 'unruly' child is to place them in restraints, which has been know to cause death if the child has a respiratory problem. The links below are from a Google search on 'deadly restraints,' which Google turned into 'deadly restraint nationwide pattern death:'

Deadly Restraint: A Hartford Courant Investigative Report
Deadly Restraint: A Hartford Courant Investigative Report Day 2
Deadly Restraints pdf file
Risks of Restraints pdf file
Restraints news and information - Institutionalized Child Abuse

Some of these articles came after a series in the Hartford Courant revealing that children and teens had died as a result of restraints. I remember seeing a series years ago, coming from another newspaper source talking about children dying in restraint in the southwest. Every so often the issue surfaces and maybe, the locale or state actually take action; but, the problem is ongoing and nationwide.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Yeah, but they are NOT death camps

they should be uncovered, written about, some people should face the music, but they are not death camps.

[patrice]

66. Say that to their DEAD. Sheesh. :-|

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. So tell me, if I have a burger and I choke on it

is the restaurant a death camp too? By the very loose definition you are using, yes.

[patrice]

70. wow. If you're not held in legally defined CONSTRAINTS & prevented from receiving or

pursuing care, as persons in a CRC death camp are, you are not in a death camp when you choke on your burger.

Why isn't that more obvious to you?

As I said . . . wow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Is this a war crime?

Does it fit the definition of one?

No Patrice, it is a CRIMINAL case, with CIVIL undertones

Perspective, you lack it.

[Occulus]

102. Nadine. Usually I like reading what you have to say, but right now, on this thread,

you sound exactly like Fredda Weinberg.

She was banned from DU2 for, IIRC, this exact behavior; i.e., flailing about with her "dead" "father's" "Jewish" "corpse" and beating people with it. Jews do not- they do not- own the terms "death camp" or "holocaust". Nazi Death Camp, yes. WW2 Holocaust, yes. But not the words themselves.

Please stop. You are not making yourself look good here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. Not my dead father

20 million people, Jews, Gypsies, LGBT, political prisoners, it wasn't just Jews.

And this is diminishing the horrors of that holocaust. My view, purely, and if this gets me banned, suggesting the correct use of language on things like this, it speak about DU and not me.

There are some things that one has to stand for.

For the record, having debriefed actual victims of genocide, forty years after the Holocaust, these words have meaning. This particular set of words, a particularly horrifying meaning.

[LongTomH]

74. OK, I can agree that the phrase: "Death Camps" in the OP title is over the top!

Can we get past that, and focus on the very real abuses of these places, where young people are traumatized and sometimes die?

By the way, I didn't use the phrase "death camps," I just posted links to articles on abuses.

Edited to add: I can understand why you're angry, Nadine! I have a close friend whose father got out of Germany just in time to avoid Hitler's rounding up of the Jews.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. That we should, problem is the

Hyperbole ain't helping.

These places should be investigated for both civil and criminal violations...no argument from me on that. Even made it clear to the op when told him to reconsider the title.

[eridani]

96. I'm usually not very strict in the language policing area, but in this case

--IMO "death camp" is over the top.The US invasion of Iraq is a war crime of the highest order, even though the intent was not to kill civilians but to put the country under US military domination. It was perfectly predictable that civilians WOULD be killed, but that wasn't the purpose. Similarly, punishment for profit will predictably yield occasional deaths, but the intent was profiteering rather than murder.

[Smilo]

39. Remember - corporations are people......

people are just a source of revenue to be squeezed dry and discarded.

[hue]

49. Same horrors all over again; from Bush/Cheney to Mitt Rmoney! Sociopaths/psychopaths!!!

[Zalatix]

59. If this gets out it's over for Rmoney.

[RT_Fanatic]

79. It's already "out."

If it weren't, we wouldn't be discussing it here. It will never be discussed in the MSM, however. Sad, but true.

[Liberal_in_LA]

78. omg. Mitt's money has blood on it.

[Blue Owl]

80. Six of one, half-dozen of another...

At the end of the day, the important thing is that Mitt descends into his luxurious 4-car garage via his automobile elevator.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

88. Perfect example of why it's advantageous for CxOs . . .

. . . to be psychopaths ie: no conscience. See: 'Snakes in Suits' by Hobert Hare and Mitt Romney.

They can't have a bothersome little thing such as "conscience" getting in the way of good profits now, can they? - and just think - the entire United States is run by these murderous bastards. Right now, they're trying to buy themselves a government.

[hughee99]

89. So 4 (or 7 years) after Romney left Bain Capital,

they took over a "death camp for troubled teens" and yet Mittens runs the place?

[Scuba]

91. He owns it.

[hughee99]

93. Yes, but does he run it?

Does he still make the call on what companies to buy and destroy, and how to run the ones that are still in business?

[lonestarnot]

92. Sorry assed motherfucker!

[progress2k12nbynd]

95. Wow have to agree with a lot of the replies, over to the top...

considering I'm probably not the only DU'er that lost ancestors in true death camps in Europe.

I suppose if your sensationalist title got the reccs you were hoping for, all is right with the world though...

[Scuba]

97. I care about the recs only in the sense that they draw further attention to Mitt's ...

... business practices. My "over the top" title appears to have worked as I had hoped.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. And some of us also care about the correct use of language

The people who gave you those recs, like you, have no concept of language...one of the few times I wish we still had unrec.

[Scuba]

99. Language is a living organism. Trying to constrain it to serve one's own priorities is futile.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. And both the dictionary and thesaurus are not with you

Accepted definitions are there for a reason...it is so we understand each other

By the way, I checked. Death camp is nowhere in any urban dictionary, where differing uses first appear.

So no, you have no concept of the correct usage.

Skinner I want unrec back for idiocy like this.

And yes, I make part of my living by actually using language.

[Schema Thing]

101. And the other part of your living as a Virtual Dominatrix, I presume?

You're not claiming that you or anyone else doesn't understand the original post and it's title, you're just telling the OP you don't like it and don't think it's appropriate.

Skinner, I want you to start banning people who spend a little too much time dominating your site

[Posteritatis]

103. Even for some of the topics here that's dragging this subthread in an especially dumb direction. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Personal attack, uncalled for,

welcome to ignore.

(Instead of addressing the point you attack NICE)

[Initech]

106. For profit sociopaths