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Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:20 PM

If you must eat meat... "Replace Beef with Poultry or Pork"

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/solutions/forest_solutions/solutions-for-deforestation-free-meat.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=tw&utm_campaign=tw

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/Solutions-for-Deforestation-Free-Meat.pdf

"Our meat choices have direct implications for the world's forests and climate.

Producing meat, especially beef, requires large amounts of land. Global meat consumption has increased in recent years—and much of the new land for meat production has come from clearing tropical forests. This trend is a leading driver of deforestation and a significant contributor to global warming emissions.

Beef in particular requires vastly more land than meats like chicken and pork, which use much less land to produce the same amount of protein. Thus a simple diet shift from beef toward chicken would greatly reduce the pressure on land and the resulting pressure for deforestation. Even without a dietary shift, a variety of other practical solutions can help significantly reduce the impacts of meat production..."

139 replies, 9611 views

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Reply If you must eat meat... "Replace Beef with Poultry or Pork" (Original post)
handmade34 Jul 2012 OP
progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #1
RockaFowler Jul 2012 #2
Meiko Jul 2012 #41
cstanleytech Jul 2012 #96
CrispyQ Jul 2012 #129
BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #3
handmade34 Jul 2012 #23
slackmaster Jul 2012 #4
DJ13 Jul 2012 #6
cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #73
liberal N proud Jul 2012 #5
Skittles Jul 2012 #66
yawnmaster Jul 2012 #82
kctim Jul 2012 #7
handmade34 Jul 2012 #38
kctim Jul 2012 #101
handmade34 Jul 2012 #108
trixie Jul 2012 #117
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #88
kctim Jul 2012 #106
HappyMe Jul 2012 #8
B2G Jul 2012 #9
pipoman Jul 2012 #14
handmade34 Jul 2012 #24
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #20
handmade34 Jul 2012 #31
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #35
handmade34 Jul 2012 #40
TheWraith Jul 2012 #43
Luminous Animal Jul 2012 #51
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply !
handmade34 Jul 2012 #58
TheWraith Jul 2012 #122
Luminous Animal Jul 2012 #134
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #100
TheWraith Jul 2012 #123
amandabeech Jul 2012 #124
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #131
Luminous Animal Jul 2012 #49
Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #90
permatex Jul 2012 #91
ieoeja Jul 2012 #107
permatex Jul 2012 #111
quaker bill Jul 2012 #55
shraby Jul 2012 #12
pipoman Jul 2012 #15
B2G Jul 2012 #22
pipoman Jul 2012 #68
HappyMe Jul 2012 #17
alphafemale Jul 2012 #78
yawnmaster Jul 2012 #84
handmade34 Jul 2012 #29
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #10
handmade34 Jul 2012 #27
underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #94
ellenfl Jul 2012 #63
XemaSab Jul 2012 #67
mainer Jul 2012 #76
Edweird Jul 2012 #11
TheWraith Jul 2012 #44
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #13
pipoman Jul 2012 #16
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #18
hifiguy Jul 2012 #25
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #28
Posteritatis Jul 2012 #45
jeff47 Jul 2012 #83
drmeow Jul 2012 #130
HappyMe Jul 2012 #19
handmade34 Jul 2012 #26
B2G Jul 2012 #33
Luminous Animal Jul 2012 #56
Quantess Jul 2012 #21
NCarolinawoman Jul 2012 #89
Quantess Jul 2012 #97
permatex Jul 2012 #92
Quantess Jul 2012 #98
bluedigger Jul 2012 #30
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #32
bluedigger Jul 2012 #39
mahina Jul 2012 #64
JBoy Jul 2012 #70
mahina Jul 2012 #86
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #99
handmade34 Jul 2012 #34
Quantess Jul 2012 #36
bluedigger Jul 2012 #37
FarCenter Jul 2012 #42
Quantess Jul 2012 #50
FarCenter Jul 2012 #53
handmade34 Jul 2012 #59
mainer Jul 2012 #79
handmade34 Jul 2012 #80
RebelOne Jul 2012 #46
yawnmaster Jul 2012 #85
permatex Jul 2012 #95
HopeHoops Jul 2012 #47
Swede Jul 2012 #48
handmade34 Jul 2012 #62
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #52
handmade34 Jul 2012 #60
apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #61
patrice Jul 2012 #54
madrchsod Jul 2012 #57
FedUpWithIt All Jul 2012 #65
aikoaiko Jul 2012 #69
JBoy Jul 2012 #71
undeterred Jul 2012 #72
cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #74
mainer Jul 2012 #75
fascisthunter Jul 2012 #77
handmade34 Jul 2012 #81
fascisthunter Jul 2012 #137
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #87
flvegan Jul 2012 #93
handmade34 Jul 2012 #103
kentauros Jul 2012 #118
Beacool Jul 2012 #102
handmade34 Jul 2012 #105
Beacool Jul 2012 #110
handmade34 Jul 2012 #113
Beacool Jul 2012 #125
snooper2 Jul 2012 #104
sweetapogee Jul 2012 #109
kentauros Jul 2012 #120
MadHound Jul 2012 #112
handmade34 Jul 2012 #115
FedUpWithIt All Jul 2012 #121
Fawke Em Jul 2012 #114
Spoonman Jul 2012 #116
uppityperson Jul 2012 #139
FreeJoe Jul 2012 #119
Beacool Jul 2012 #127
Warpy Jul 2012 #126
mike_c Jul 2012 #128
handmade34 Jul 2012 #135
demosincebirth Jul 2012 #132
Marrah_G Jul 2012 #133
L0oniX Jul 2012 #136
uppityperson Jul 2012 #138

Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:22 PM

1. I don't eat red meat, just poultry.. but now need to be sure it's anti-biotic free...

apparently they're know saying that it really does make a difference that the chickens have anti-biotics in them, and then we eat them.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:23 PM

2. I had to give up beef

After my surgery last month I completely lost the taste for beef. I tried to eat some spaghetti that I made before I went in for the surgery and I lost my appetite right away. I'm not sure if it's because I no longer have the gallbladder, or what happened to my gallbladder that makes me not want to eat meat any longer

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:50 PM

41. It's probably the fat content

 

having your gall bladder removed can make you sensitive to fat levels in your food. I have a friend who experienced the very same thing, he can't eat anything with a high fat content.

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Response to Meiko (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:51 AM

96. Just curios but did your friend try eating ground sirloin?

After all if I recall its supposed to have alot less fat than even extra lean ground beef.

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:40 PM

129. I passed a kidney stone in December & have not desired one cup of coffee since then.

I used to drink 2-3 cups a day! I gave my brand new fresh bag of organic Dazbog to my neighbor. He was thrilled!

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:25 PM

3. NEVER!

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Response to BOG PERSON (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:12 PM

23. ...

"...Although tropical forests cover only about 7 percent of the Earth’s dry land, they probably harbor about half of all species on Earth. Many species are so specialized to microhabitats within the forest that they can only be found in small areas. Their specialization makes them vulnerable to extinction. In addition to the species lost when an area is totally deforested, the plants and animals in the fragments of forest that remain also become increasingly vulnerable, sometimes even committed, to extinction. The edges of the fragments dry out and are buffeted by hot winds; mature rainforest trees often die standing at the margins. Cascading changes in the types of trees, plants, and insects that can survive in the fragments rapidly reduces biodiversity in the forest that remains. People may disagree about whether the extinction of other species through human action is an ethical issue, but there is little doubt about the practical problems that extinction poses..."

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Deforestation/

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:29 PM

4. This message has been brought to you by cows

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:30 PM

6. This message has been brought to you by cows

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:59 PM

73. eeT mor cHikiN n/t

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:30 PM

5. Chicken can't replace a really good strip steak.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:57 PM

66. surre it can

and so can fish

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Response to Skittles (Reply #66)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:43 PM

82. They taste completely different! now I want a nice medium rare rib eye steak.

tomorrow, perhaps fish or chicken.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:32 PM

7. Govern your own diet, not mine

 

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Response to kctim (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:38 PM

38. "you can't tell me what to do!"



...the article posted is a serious concern about deforestation of our rain forests and global climate change... I care about these things because it is important for a healthy future for you, your children and grandchildren...

there is empirical prove that excessive meat consumption is contributing significantly to global climate change... I can't force anybody to care but I sure as heck will do what I can to help people understand...

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

101. The article posted

 

does not seriously address WHY red meat is the meat of choice, nor does it offer any practical solutions to the human side of the issue.

People DO understand, they just don't share alarmist views or they simply just don't care. Because of that, the only option to avoid the great cow fart meltdown of the earth is to govern what people eat and I don't support government having that much control of us.

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Response to kctim (Reply #101)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:08 PM

108. alarmist views?

the government (but mostly corporations) already control much of what you eat... we need to look critically at this issue... not just have knee-jerk reactions to a perceived sense that gov't has too much control

"...Deforestation affects the earth's physical environment by causing soil erosion, poor water quality, reduced food security and impaired flood protection, according to a report from the World Resources Institute. Because forests are the source of employment and food for many people, their destruction can cause mass migration to cities. With the influence that tropical forests have on weather, particularly rain, deforestation can cause altered weather patterns...

Biological Diversity: When massive swaths of forest are destroyed, species loss follows. Tropical areas, like Brazil's rain forests, have the world's highest concentrations of biologically diverse species. When the habitat for plants and animals is cut down or burned, species that may not be present anywhere else on Earth disappear. In addition, deforestation of tropical forests leaves many species of migrating birds without a winter home.

Climate Change: Deforestation is a main cause of the higher concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. In particular, deforestation causes high levels of carbon dioxide: it is released when forests are burned or when they decompose, and when trees that used to take in this carbon dioxide are cut down, levels rise. Greenhouse gases are trapped in the atmosphere and act as a barrier for heat that would normally be released into space; as a result, temperatures across the globe rise and change rainfall patterns, ice cover and sea levels..."
http://greenliving.nationalgeographic.com/deforestation-effects-global-scale-2214.html

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:47 PM

117. I raise my own cattle

grass fed, diaper wearing and then I put it to sleep and slaughter it and enjoy the meat.
No drugs other then medical pot.

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Response to kctim (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:29 PM

88. Then don't expect sympathy re global warming or if you get cancer (beef linked to cancer).

Is it super hot, breaking records, where you are? Or more hurricanes than usual? Or record blizzards? Or you've gotten some odd cancer?

If you're one of the ones eating beef, driving a car without regard to the mileage it gets, not caulking your house to lower your bills, not composting, using chemicals in your lawn, etc., then you're one of the ones without as much a right to complain as others who have at least tried.

We can't have everything we want.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #88)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:03 PM

106. Good news then - I'm pro-choice

 

I don't expect, need or want sympathy for the choices I make.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:33 PM

8. Sorry, but you just can't beat

a tasty pot roast or a medium rare steak.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:35 PM

9. Or a filet...or a big juicy burger

And I wasn't aware the US had to cut down 'tropical forrests' to house cattle.

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Response to B2G (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:41 PM

14. Every bit of meat I serve

at my house is raised on my FIL's farm. Every bit I serve at my restaurant is raised within a couple hundred miles of me..none from rain forests..any corn fed oxygenates for nearly the entire growing period..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:14 PM

24. ...

thank you

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Response to B2G (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:52 PM

20. Actually the rain-forests are being cut down to grow corn and soy primarily

 

due to the spike in grain prices caused by our bio-ethanol policies. Which we had to implement to save the earth from things like excess carbon emissions due to the rain-forests being cut down.

Oops.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:28 PM

31. !!


many reasons that our rain forests are being decimated... excessive demand for beef is surely one of them...

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:45 PM

40. excellent links...

when bio-fuels began to be hyped years ago, I was quick to see the serious problems associated with it... so important to stress "buy local" food is better and less energy is needed to get it... mostly we can all do small things!

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:01 PM

43. I'm pretty sure the US isn't cutting down tropical rainforests to make room for cows. nt

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:20 PM

51. Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, and Bunge are contracting for soy production to feed to cows.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #51)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:38 PM

58. !

yup

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #51)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:03 PM

122. And what does soy production in the US have to do with TROPICAL RAINFORESTS?

To imagine that US beef production has anything to do with tropical deforestation requires some really amazing mental gymnastics.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #122)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 04:26 PM

134. American companies contract to farmers in the rainforests and

import the soy to the U.S. Cargill, et.al., (U.S. companies) control, through contracts, about 60% of the soy produced in the rainforests.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:41 AM

100. No but our grain policies effect global grain prices

 

since we're such a huge exporter.

Meaning that by driving up grain prices by our foolish bio-ethanol schemes we're incentivizing the clearing of new land to grow corn and soy (mostly).

We aren't clearing rain-forests and we have enough domestic corn for our cows. But our policies do indirectly influence that region.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #100)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:04 PM

123. So nobody else in the entire world is responsible for their own policies?

Even though we only use corn for ethanol, not exportable grain?

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #123)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:29 PM

124. In normal times, we export plenty of corn as well as soybeans and wheat.

This year, the corn crop is very, very low because of the drought in many parts of the corn belt, such as Illinois and Indiana, which are the number 2 and 5 (or 4) producers.

I once read that McDonald's imports beef from South America, although I seem to recall that it was from Argentina, not Brazil. Argentina has large areas of grassland for grazing and not so much tropical forests, except maybe some along the Brazilian/Paraguan border.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #123)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 03:10 PM

131. That's not at all what I said.

 

But what we do does effect the global commodity prices which in turn effects what other people do.

If Saudi Arabia were to instead start burning a large chunk of the oil they would normally have exported that would alter policies and economic conditions elsewhere. Right?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:15 PM

49. And quite a bit of that soy is purchased by Cargill and, in turn, fed to their cattle.

According to this Green Peace report, 80% of the world's soy production is fed to livestock.

www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/report/2006/7/eating-up-the-amazon.pdf

un-oops.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #49)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:14 AM

90. The livestock are fed the high-protein residue of what is left after the soy beans are processed.

Humans won't eat it, and it beats throwing it away.

Same as what happens to brewery spoils, it's not palatable for humans, but livestock eat it up.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #90)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:26 AM

91. The brewery spoils are called DDG, which is a gold colored granular substance.

 

Our local dairy here in Pahrump, NV., uses it for their dairy cows.

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Response to permatex (Reply #91)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:04 PM

107. Then why doesn't my milk taste like beer?


Yuuuummm, milk beer.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #107)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:23 PM

111. LOL nt.

 

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:24 PM

55. Rain forests are not good at carbon sequestration

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:37 PM

12. Try rolling the chicken pieces in flour, browning them, put them in a cooker

a can of cream of mushroom soup and a can of water over it, put the lid on and bake for an hour..use 2 chickens, you'll need that much cause it's super delicous. If 2 cut up chickes are used, use an extra can of soup. Nothing can beat it for being really tasty.

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Response to shraby (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:46 PM

15. The only thing I would change is getting some..

mushrooms, garlic and onion, sauteing them in a little olive oil, add a little flour, a little red wine, and some milk..salt & pepper to taste. Almost as fast as opening a can of campbell's without the preservatives and less sodium.

That said, chicken is delicious...beef is delicious...don't try to feed me chicken when I am wanting a nice steak..or pot roast for that matter.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:09 PM

22. Beef Stroganoff...it's what's for dinner!

(can be done with chicken too for the tropical forrest devotees).

Beef Stroganoff


1 large round steak cut up into bite sized strips
1 cup sliced mushrooms
1 onion, thinly sliced
2-3 cloves of garlic, minced
1 stick of butter
2 cans of beef bullion (double strength)
1 cup sour cream


Melt butter in large skillet. Coat steak strips in flour, salt & pepper mixture. Brown steak in skillet (stir well after browning to loosen up the drippings). Add mushrooms, garlic & onion and simmer about 5 minutes until, stirring well. Stir in cans of beef broth. Cover and simmer on low for about an hour, stirring occasionally to prevent sticking. Just before serving, stir in sour cream making sure it’s well heated. Serve over buttered noodles.

A good side with this is french cut green beans with slivered almonds. Get some good crusty french bread and a nice cabernet.

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Response to B2G (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 07:41 PM

68. I used to use the cream of mushroom

but years ago figured out how easy it is to make a sauce with a similar flavor. I keep some dehydrated mushrooms around for spontaneously wanting to make some mushroom soup...fresh is better, and canned don't really work for me.

I love stroganoff...I make it just as you do with the exception that I deglaze the pan with dry sherry..

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Response to shraby (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:50 PM

17. If I have a whole chicken,

I roast it up in the oven. When it's done, leave it rest for 20 minutes, don't tent it. Nice crispy skin, juicy meat.

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Response to shraby (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:12 PM

78. Nice Dinner. Still not a Steak.

Nothing will ever substitute an occasional Steak.

Or a homemade burger embedded with blue cheese.

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Response to shraby (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:46 PM

84. That does sound very nice, but it tastes different than steak...

and won't replace it.
a nicely cooked rib eye steak is absolutely delicious.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:25 PM

29. best

to make that pot roast or rare steak from a local farm...

I have always said one of the best meals I ever had (before I stopped eating meat) was filet mignon wrapped in home smoked bacon (all raised and processed by me) I will someday go back to farming and will raise organic pigs...

the discussion here is that the excessive demand for beef is exacerbating the deforestation of our earth's precious tropical forests!

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:36 PM

10. Pig farms are an ecological disaster.

In my area, cows are grass-fed on farms big enough to be sensible.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:19 PM

27. all factory

agribusiness farms are a disaster, whether beef, pork, poultry, etc... all cause serious problems for the environment!

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:42 AM

94. Not to mention the heinous torture and abuses the animals endure.

It's sickening. I wouldn't do those things to a republican.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:48 PM

63. i don't think there are 'grain fed' or 'free range' pigs. not many healthy pig choices. eom

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 07:15 PM

67. For real

Most range cattle in the US use lands that are too marginal for farming.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:08 PM

76. Pigs can grow in forests and pastures. No need for factory pigs.

It's just the American way of pig farming that makes them disasters.

Look at all the wild pigs that thrive in California and in the southwest. Obviously those are completely free-range.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:37 PM

11. Red meat has the diesel fuel I need. Nothing else does the trick.

 

I've tried vegetarian and poultry and pork. They all leave me 'flat'. I have a physically demanding job and a crazy high metabolism so I consume (and burn) unbelievable amounts of calories.

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Response to Edweird (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:02 PM

44. It's most likely the protein, not the raw calories.

If calories were it, you could get those from pasta or the like. But beef such as steak has 30-40% protein content by weight. Compare that to eggs at 10 to 14, bread at 6 to 12, and vegetables at 0.3 to 3 percent. If you have a physically demanding job, protein is needed to help rebuild your body's muscles. Nothing else does the trick.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:39 PM

13. Depends

 

A properly run cattle operation uses marginal grasslands that are useless for agriculture and actually doesn't really hurt the environment.

/large herbivores are an essential part of the ecosystem. We just need to work with it rather than against.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:48 PM

16. You're forgetting that their farts are causing the sky to fall!!!1!

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Response to pipoman (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:50 PM

18. That's why a responsible operation always

 

ties a lit candle to the tail of every cow in the pasture.

It keeps the flies away and helps keep track of them at night.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:16 PM

25. I have an image in my head of cows being

blasted halfway across the pasture every time a fart is blown.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:22 PM

28. A side benefit

 

get's them to a new patch of grass without walking; keeps the meat tender.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:03 PM

45. I think I like the world you live in better than this one. (nt)

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:45 PM

83. It's convenient self-cooking meat. (nt)

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 03:00 PM

130. If I had been taking a drink

when I read this you would be owing me a new keyboard right now (wasn't there a drink spraying smily before - I can't find it)

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Response to pipoman (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:51 PM

19. What about the children!!111

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:17 PM

26. local, organic beef: Yes

Demand for beef is destroying tropical ‪#forests‬. Tell your local retailer you want deforestation-free meat! http://ow.ly/bSVzc

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:31 PM

33. What tropical forests are being destroyed in the US?

And how much of said beef is imported here?

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Response to B2G (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:25 PM

56. It's not the cattle that is destroying the forests, it is the soy grown to feed cattle and sold

to Cargill, ADM, et.al., for U.S. and European markets.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:55 PM

21. Poor pigs and chickens.

I have spent time among both pigs and chickens in my life. Pigs are charming and have a reputation of being smart. Chickens are also charming and nowhere near as stupid as people say they are. Turkeys are also much smarter than they get credit for! Turkeys are geniuses when it comes to stealing human food, actually.

That said, I cannot promise to abstain from meat. But I do not eat very much meat, though. I think a good solution would be if everybody ate less meat.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:01 AM

89. I'm about where you are.

I still eat meat, but not very much.

Spent many summers of my youth on my Uncle's dairy farm in Greenville , North Carolina. What a contrast in experience from where I lived in suburban northern New Jersey.

This was a family farm, which today would be called organic. Lots of cows, chickens, a few turkeys, pigs, and one bull. I got to know those animals well. No. they are not stupid, and they each have their own distinct personalities. They deserve to be treated well for as long they are on this earth. They are totally in our care.

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Response to NCarolinawoman (Reply #89)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 03:59 AM

97. I wish we could get away from factory farming,

and go back to the smaller farms where people actually take care of the animals they are going to eat. Meat animals are victims of naked greedy capitalism, more than we are.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:37 AM

92. Cows may seem dumb

 

but if there's a way to get out of their pen, they'll find it. They are also very destructive to farm equipment, you can't leave any type of equipment in their pen unattended, by the time you get back, all the wiring will be torn off, lights removed, wheel hub oil caps removed with the hub oil on the ground.

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Response to permatex (Reply #92)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 04:02 AM

98. Oh I am sure cows have their talents.

They are cute, too.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:25 PM

30. What's fish, a vegetable?

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:29 PM

32. According to Ron freaking Swanson yes. And suitable for sport only. Not eating.

 

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:38 PM

39. I forgot about that.

Probably because I hate fishing. Love Ron, though.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:51 PM

64. Who the heck is Ron Swanson?

?

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Response to mahina (Reply #64)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:32 PM

70. Character on the TV show "Parks and Recreation"



- Uber Libertarian
- Hyper Masculine
- Meat Eater, Scotch drinker

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Response to JBoy (Reply #70)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 10:34 PM

86. OOOkey dokey.

Thanks.

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Response to mahina (Reply #64)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:38 AM

99. {gasp}

 

Sacrilege!

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:32 PM

34. the article posted

is one concerned primarily with the deforestation of the rain forests... over harvesting of our fish is another concern


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Response to bluedigger (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:34 PM

36. People also eat too much fish.

Seriously. Our oceans are over-fished. I can get a link if you insist.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:37 PM

37. Oh, don't bother.

I'll just eat lobster - it's cheaper.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:53 PM

42. Eat more people; it's good for the environment.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:20 PM

50. Yes! Great minds and all...

It sounds more and more like, I need to finally watch Soylent Green. Soylent Green is people, right?

No really, I do need to see that film.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #50)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:22 PM

53. Well --- if the trend of zombie face munchers continues to develop....

On edit: make that "naked zombie face munchers"...

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #59)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:12 PM

79. Shhhhhh!

I love dogs, but don't have one. It always amazes me how many of my vegetarian/vegan friends condemn meat eaters, yet own dogs.

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Response to mainer (Reply #79)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:30 PM

80. or

the number of people that say "you will have to pry my medium rare steak out of my cold dead hands" but condemn cultures that eat dogs and/or cats??

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:04 PM

46. I do not eat anything that has hair, fur or feathers. n/t

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:49 PM

85. Nor do I. I find hair and fur gets caught in my teeth and feathers, well, they don't digest well...

I INSIST that all my meat and fowl have the hair, fur and feathers removed!
scales on the fish can sometimes be okay...depending on the fish.

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Response to yawnmaster (Reply #85)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:47 AM

95. I just had a vision of the movie Alien Nation.

 

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:04 PM

47. We quit all kinds of meat in '89. It's all evil and bad for the environment.

 

That said, it wasn't that way when farms were owned by families. We get our eggs from a family farm in exchange for herbs we grow in ours. I'll say it. Meat is murder. Dairy farms can be really bad but we're fortunate to have a local company that only buys from farms that treat the cows with dignity. That's not possible in most places in this country.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:09 PM

48. No.

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Response to Swede (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:48 PM

62. ...

http://www.rain-tree.com/facts.htm


"...Nearly half of the world's species of plants, animals and microorganisms will be destroyed or severely threatened over the next quarter century due to rainforest deforestation.
Experts estimates that we are losing 137 plant, animal and insect species every single day due to rainforest deforestation. That equates to 50,000 species a year. As the rainforest species disappear, so do many possible cures for life-threatening diseases. Currently, 121 prescription drugs sold worldwide come from plant-derived sources. While 25% of Western pharmaceuticals are derived from rainforest ingredients, less that 1% of these tropical trees and plants have been tested by scientists.
Most rainforests are cleared by chainsaws, bulldozers and fires for its timber value and then are followed by farming and ranching operations, even by world giants like Mitsubishi Corporation, Georgia Pacific, Texaco and Unocal.
There were an estimated ten million Indians living in the Amazonian Rainforest five centuries ago. Today there are less than 200,000..."

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:21 PM

52. Not interested. But you go right ahead.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #52)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:44 PM

60. not interested

in making a healthier planet? the article is about the seriousness of tropical rain forest deforestation and global climate change...

really sorry to hear your not interested

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #60)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:45 PM

61. Nope: not interested in giving up beef. But as I said, you go right ahead. n/t.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:23 PM

54. Make mine hemp. nt

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:26 PM

57. i rarely eat beef

i`ll eat wild game ,pork , and chicken.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 06:51 PM

65. Or buy grass fed and finished, locally raised beef.

I do agree with the arguments for reducing meat consumption and not leaning too heavily on one type of meat.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:17 PM

69. First they came for beef and I did not speak out...


I keed. I keed.

I probably won't change my eating habits, but I support folks eating less or no meat.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:34 PM

71. When you pry it from my medium-rare, well-marbled hand.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:34 PM

72. Another good reason not to eat animals.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:02 PM

74. Fairly certain my beef is raised in the US and causes NO deforestation. n/t

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:06 PM

75. Pork is actually an amazing protein source

Pigs eat EVERYTHING. Which is why they're a staple in so many poor Asian countries. As part of a green system, pigs fit right in. They eat leftovers, acorns, whatever you throw their way. And they grow quickly, endure multiple climate zones, and their fat is nourishing to those with poor diets.

Plus .. um, who doesn't like ham and bacon?

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:09 PM

77. beef eater here... will take this into consideration

what's the big fucking deal folks?

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #77)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:37 PM

81. I shake my head...

an honest discussion about how our eating habits affect the environment, climate change, serious loss of hundreds of species of animals, erosion, etc, etc... ??

and so many respond "you can't tell me what to do!" ??? it seems that many are willing to care, give lip service, but if they have to consider what they could do to help??

similar to NIMBY

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #81)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:42 PM

137. I just don't get it either...

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:26 PM

87. I totally agree! Gave up beef about 15 yrs ago. Don't miss it. It is linked to cancer, now, also.

I don't eat pork, either.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:42 AM

93. Note the apologists.

Such ego. Laughable here.

Mmmmm...unga bunga tastes good, fuck planet. Same idiots post hate on republicans for much the same sort of thing, SO LONG AS it doesn't impact those taste buds.

Fucking idiots.

Go ahead jurors. Have fun.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #93)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:55 AM

103. oh, the irony...

sure what it sounds like to me... coming from many here.. "...fuck the environment; I ain't giving up anything that I want..."

I would just like an honest discussion about how our personal choices affect all of us and the environment

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #103)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 01:16 PM

118. I hate to tell you this,

but I don't think "discussion" is what too many come here for. That is, debate is king.

However, I would love to have a discussion on this.

Here's something I read some years ago (sorry y'all anal types, I didn't keep a record and link and printout of who said it or in what publication) was that Americans eat way too much protein. And too much protein in the body wreaks havoc on the calcium in our bones. In other words, eating too much daily protein helps the body to leach calcium out of your bones. Hopefully people will see where that can lead.

So, if you can't get people to at least think about cutting back even just a little on meat consumption for the sake of the environment they utilize second to second, then get them on health consequences. Make it personal and then they begin to think

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

102. They can go eat tofu for all I care, but I'm still eating beef.

I don't eat it red meat that often, but I do like a steak once in a while.

The food nazi people should lay off already!!!. There's Bloomberg in NYC trying to ban 20 oz. drinks. How about letting adult people make their own life choices? I don't drink regular soda and have diet sodas in moderation and not even on a daily basis, but it's none of my business what other people choose to eat and drink.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #102)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:00 PM

105. tofu?

I love watermelon. If I had empirical proof that my eating watermelon was directly harming your family, I would stop eating watermelon... guess that is the difference between you and me... I think it is our collective business

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #105)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:17 PM

110. Have you ever had Argentine beef?

It's grown free range in large savannas called pampas. It is also one of their largest economic mainstays and it's truly delicious. There are no rain forests in danger. Cattle has been raised in the pampas for centuries.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #110)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:28 PM

113. sounds good

can't say I've had the pleasure... when I farmed, I had what was probably the tastiest meal ever... filet mignon wrapped in home smoked bacon (all raised and processed by me)... not the point of the article though

of course there is a place in society and within the environment for raising cattle and raising one's own or buying local and organic is super! The point is that there is an excessive demand and with few regulations on large agribusiness, great harm is being done to the environment... it is at a critical point and we would be best served to consider it and what we as individuals might be able to do to help

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #113)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:35 PM

125. It is good!!

I went to boarding in school in Buenos Aires. I love the city, the people and their food. That's one place where I will eat beef several times whenever I'm there.

I wasn't trying to be insensitive about the environment. I'm just adverse to totalitarianism and blanket statements. In some parts of the world raising cattle may be pernicious to the environment, but that's not the case everywhere.



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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:57 AM

104. WooHoooooooo a food thread!!!!!!!




I just checked to fridge to remember what I pulled out of the freezer last night.


I've got boneless skinless chicken breasts and some Italian sausage..

Either way it's going on the grill as it's too fucking hot to cook everything inside. So do I do pasta with the sausage or grilled chicken breasts with some Texas Toast?

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:15 PM

109. at 5'6'' and 142 Lbs

I eat whatever falls on my plate: Chicken, pork, fish and Beef. Especally Beef. I'm having some right now!

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Response to sweetapogee (Reply #109)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 01:22 PM

120. If the cooked contents of this package fell on your plate,

would you eat it, too?


http://www.quorn.us/Home/


Because I'm having some with rice and spices right now (for lunch) and it's delicious!

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:26 PM

112. Ah, what so many of you seem not to know,

 

Is that cows are required animals if you are practicing organic, rotational farming. For those of you who don't know, rotational farming is just that, you rotate different crops through the same field. The reasoning behind this is that some crops, like corn, are harder on the soil than other crops. Some crops, like soybeans, actually add nutrients to the soil.

The typical crop rotation cycle also includes a season of letting the land go fallow, and a season where that field is grazed by livestock, for the fertilizer value of their manure. Now chickens simply can't provide enough manure to do the field justice as far as fertilizer goes, and pigs, well, you don't want their manure in your crop fields for health reasons. So that leaves sheep, horses and cows. Sheep are actually quite good for this, but the thing is, sheep aren't very popular as meat in the US. Horses are far too hard on any field, they eat the plants right down to the root, thus leaving the soil bare, open to wind and water erosion. So that leaves cattle. They have a great ratio when is comes to plant matter going in to meat quantity coming out. They don't eat the pasturage down to the roots. And their manure is absolutely fantastic when it comes to fertilizing a field.

There was a reason that our forefathers practiced crop rotation, and raised cattle, namely because it worked. It was good for the soil, good for the farm. The trouble is, like a lot of things, you have to do this in moderation. Turning a couple of cattle loose on twenty acres is one thing, turning thousands loose on hundreds of acres is entirely different.

So I wouldn't say give up beef, but know where it comes from. Buy your beef from somebody who practices sustainable, organic farming. That way you can insure that you are indeed helping the planet with your choices.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #112)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:38 PM

115. good points

although as a once (and hopefully near future) farmer I don't think cows are a necessity for a healthy sustainable farm, although there is certainly a place for them. ...and I have used pig manure successfully as fertilizer, it merely has to be composted well and correctly. Field rotation (either crop or pasture) is an excellent practice for the health of the soil and animals involved.


yes, this is what we hope to avoid...

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Response to MadHound (Reply #112)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 01:54 PM

121. Good post. n/t

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:28 PM

114. No pork.

Ridiculously bad for you.

Besides, I'm allergic to it and around half the world can't eat it for religious or dietary reasons.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:43 PM

116. Less than 1% of beef consumed in the US

 

comes from Latin America.

Deforestation is fueled by the large beef importing countries of Japan, Russia and China.

(information from my county extension office)

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Response to Spoonman (Reply #116)

Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:07 AM

139. Deforestation is not fueled by beef coming to USA but other countries? That's

interesting information. Have you a link other than local co extn? Thanks.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 01:22 PM

119. I'll give up cow meat, but I can't imagine a life without bacon. n/t

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Response to FreeJoe (Reply #119)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:39 PM

127. Yeah, bacon is delicious.

One of my favorite childhood memories is waking up on Saturday mornings to the smell of bacon being cooked by my mom. I would run downstairs and watch cartoons until breakfast was ready.

Good memories........

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:39 PM

126. The twice or so a year I eat beef

I look for grass fed beef. It's lower in fat, which means it's tougher stuff that requires moist cooking, but it's nicer to the environment that beef that is fattened on grain to the point of sickening before it's slaughtered.

With the failure of grain and feed crops across the midwest this year, the grass fed stuff is likely to become a little less expensive than the feed lot fattened beef.

Of course, poultry and pork is also going to be more expensive this year as the cost of feed skyrockets.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:40 PM

128. here's a better plan if you really care about the environment....

Don't reproduce. Meat production only requires large amounts of land because there is large consumer demand for meat. The real driver of environmental degradation isn't peoples' diet choices-- it's overpopulation.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #128)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 05:56 PM

135. ...

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 03:49 PM

132. I love a juicy Porterhouse, medium rare.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 04:01 PM

133. I eat grassfed beef

But I'm planning to go meatless next month, for health reasons. Not totally vegetarian though because I still plan to eat wild caught north Atlantic fish.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 06:35 PM

136. Chicken and pork are not safe as well ...with all the antibiotics which are having an effect...

on ebola making it more resistant.

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Response to handmade34 (Original post)

Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:00 AM

138. Eat as local and as non-mega-agribusiness as you can. E.O.M.

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