I have never had a supernatural experience

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Sun Jul 8, 2012, 03:19 PM - Edit history (2)

I have never had a supernatural experience (religious or otherwise), or more precisely, an experience that I perceive as supernatural. I may well have had experiences that another person might perceive as supernatural.

I have found, talking to people through the years, that my lack of supernatural experience is quite unusual. It seems that most people believe that they have seen ghosts or angels or other manifestations that they perceive as supernatural.

I do not consider people who "have seen" ghosts or angels to be crazy. No sensible definition of insanity includes most people. And there are irrational beliefs that are all but universal. For instance, we all need a sense of meaning just to put one foot in front of the other, though there is no rational basis for that sense of meaning.

There are plenty of people I have little difficulty trusting personally and professionally who claim to have seen an angel in the backseat of their car or a translucent weeping child in 19th century garb in the backyard, etc. (As well as seeing auras, having faith in Tarot, ocassionally hearing the voice of god or prophets... the whole range.)

At the same time, however, I do not believe that they saw photons bouncing off real angels and ghosts. I do not believe there was anything there, or at least not what they thought was there.

Over time I have come to view such perceived experiences as a human norm, in the same way belief in some sort of god is a human norm, and just accepted it on a "folks are folks" basis.

How do you feel about other people's supernatural tales?

And, if applicable, how do you handle talking about your own perceived supernatural experiences?

[Ian David]

1. I have experienced things that would have seemed supernatural, had I not been educated.

For example, I have experienced sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations.

Not to mention many, many instances of Deja Vu.

Someone ignorant about the causes of such things would probably have ascribed them to the supernatural.

[cthulu2016]

10. Yes, much of what is in play has to do with skepticism, not experience

Two people with the same experience may process it quite differently.

I am somewhat skeptical about my own mental processes, as I hope we all are to some degree. For instance, taking a time-out when angry is an acknowledgment that what we feel powerfully right now as the total embodiment of justice and truth is liable to fade.

We all see may "see" things but how we interpret the experience can be quite different.

Part of that is knowledge about the vagaries of neurological experience, but I think most comes down to personality.

For instance, anyone who has taken enough of the right kind of drugs should be the first to recognize that not everything we experience is 100% reliable, but I have known a lot of hippies who found mystical drug experiences persuasive.

But it may be that a less skeptical sense of altered experience makes the experience more rewarding, and that people who find it more rewarding would be likelier to want more of it.

(I once found LSD and mushrooms fun, but ultimately disturbing because I didn't like being temporarily crazy. If I had found the experience somehow real then I might have taken a lot more drugs.)

[arcane1]

16. Indeed, I've experienced two types of hallucinogen user in my experience

There are those who enjoy their hallucinations for what they are, and those who believe their hallucinations are real.

The former is a much more fun approach, in my opinion

[demosincebirth]

18. ...or LSD

[struggle4progress]

2. Maybe you just don't recognize miracles when you see them:

[nebenaube]

3. Congrats...

Your brain is normal and free of lesions.

[NNN0LHI]

4. I actually watched a guy having a supernatural experience

He was a completely normal, intelligent, likable fellow. Then he got a hold of some heavy duty acid. Window Pane I think it was.

Before the night was out he was carrying on a conversation with God. This guy never came out of it either. Turned into a Jesus Freak right in front of my eyes.

He still is as far as I know.

His "experience" happened about 1971 and the last time I seen him a few years ago he was still walking down the street clutching a Bible and muttering some shit to himself.

So it does happen I guess.

Don

[hedgehog]

8. As soon as you include the use of acid,

haven't you precluded the supernatural?

For example - I believe that Bernadette had supernatural experience. However, when people stare into the sun as at Fatima and Medjorie and report sdeeing all kinds of optical phenomena, my reaction is

[NNN0LHI]

11. No, I am not positive it was the acid

He may have actually been having a conversation with God for all I know. But I didn't actually hear anyone talking to this guy so I am dubious.

Don

[tularetom]

5. Once I saw a UFO through the windshield of my car

But as it turned out it was the reflection of my car keys in the glass. That pretty much summarizes how I feel about anybody who claims to have seen ghosts, angels, flying saucers, or jesus in a tortilla.

There is plenty of unbelievable shit going on in real life without anybody having to invent more.

So I guess I sort of zone out when anyone says that stuff.

[hedgehog]

6. I find it significant that you included this phrase:

" I do not believe that they saw photons bouncing off real angels and ghosts"

I don't think a supernatural phenomenon would necessarily be "there" - that a person may perceive something by direct stimulation of various brain cells. How you interpret what is perceived is up for grabs.

[cthulu2016]

12. Yes, it's an interesting wrinkle

I said that to someone recently about an angel. She said, "You don't believe I saw an angel," and I said, "Seeing is a neurological phenomenon. I don't doubt that you saw something but I do not believe there was a physical angel in your car."

As you say, a vision need not be seeing, but it was a distinction I wanted to draw.

Would someone else in the car have seen the same thing? If a person had not grown up with images of robed and winged angels would they have seen a robed and winged angel? Etc..

[leftyohiolib]

7. most people here think supernatural is for the feeble minded

i dont but ive seen what happens to people here when they post something spirtiual or supernatural

[Arugula Latte]

9. I've had experiences where it felt like someone had touched me on the shoulder, but no one was there

However, I know the interaction of muscles, nerve cells, the spinal cord and the brain produces all sorts of interesting sensations. I don't need a supernatural story to explain something like that.

[sarisataka]

13. I have seen things

and had experiences I cannot explain and likely never will.

It does not bother me in the least since 99.99% of my life is normal. It does mean I am willing to listen to other's stories with an open mind. Often we can figure rational explanations, sometimes not.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Is that which is unexplained always 'supernatural'? Interesting story...

Years ago, I moved into a house up in the hills, a tiny house. Frequently guests would 'see' a dog in the hall way, more than one asked me 'when did you get a dog'. Once or twice I also got a corner of the eye movement I did not see a dog. 6 or 7 different people 'saw a dog'. After a year or so, a neighbor told me the story of the previous occupant of the house, who had died in what was now my bedroom and was not found for a few days. The neighbor says 'his dogs wore the carpet bare pacing the hallway, it was so sad'. I was of course startled by this, and informed the neighbor that many people had mentioned seeing a phantom dog in that very hallway, pacing. "Is this a real ghost story" I asked. The neighbor said this could not be the case, as the dogs were alive, he'd personally placed them with friends of his few miles away. "I saw those dogs last week."
So what can be said? Supernatural or some sort of natural we don't always notice? People saw something, and perceived 'dog pacing'. Just where a dog had paced for days, with high emotion. Some sort of marker was left, it seems, a fragrance of the tragedy of sorts. But supernatural? I'd say natural and yet undiscovered. Or just a really wild random set of people seeing dog phantoms. Who knows? Not me.

[antigone382]

15. I don't have an explanation and I don't see a need for an explanation.

I have a very similar view to you, in that I don't question people who have dealt with situations that seemed supernatural, but at the same time, I don't view such situations as proof of anything.

I have never seen or experienced ghosts, spirits, etc., though I know several rational and trustworthy people who say that they have. I have, however, had some experiences that seemed uncannily supernatural at the time (deja vu, and several significant events that I "knew were going to happen" before they did). I was newly atheist at that time and it was not a set of experiences that was welcome to me, by any means, but I did not know how else to interpret what I was experiencing.

Over time I have come to view these events more ambiguously, perhaps as natural events that had the appearance of the supernatural at the time (for example, when I "foretold" things that happened, I just had the intuition to astutely predict how those situations would work out, given the personalities and likely behaviors involved). I am in favor of finding a logical and "scientific" explanation for such things, to an extent, but I am not for discrediting individuals who don't feel that their experiences are explained by those methods--particularly when these individuals are not seeking to profit from whatever they think happened.

I think ultimately such things tend to get into questions of meaning. Science doesn't address meaning, and I think those who try to discredit "meaning-making" efforts using science fail to understand the purpose and capabilities of science. If someone claims to feel a connection with the dead, etc., there is an amount of interpretation that should go into analyzing the nature of that connection. I have what I consider to be relationships with lost loved ones. It isn't that I literally believe that I connect or communicate with those people, but I carry on as if they are still present in my life; a memory is a kind of continuous presence, even if it is not "real" or observable. If others view their connection as a more vivid or ongoing thing, if they view the other side of that perception as a being that possesses its own sentience rather than as the shadow or memory of such, what difference does it really make?

(I acknowledge that this is kind of a rambling mess that wanders around to different, tangentially related topics...but I don't have the time to edit it or make it any better. Basically, as you very succinctly put it, I think "folks are folks.&quot

[cthulu2016]

17. good post!

[Voice for Peace]

19. Not sure if I believe in 'super'natural..

If something is there, it's probably natural, and if it's not, it's
probably imagination or fiction.

but having said that, who can measure such things?

I remember taking acid and looking at the bark of a tree for a
long time. I thought I was hallucinating all the colors I was
seeing. But some time later I saw a photograph of the same tree,
taken with a lens much sharper than normal sight. All the colors
were there, just as brilliant.

I've seen things in the woods that appeared and disappeared
out of nowhere, and back again, seemingly quite magically.
I've had messages from dead people, always in the first few
moments after death. I have heard 'angelic' choirs when there
was only silence about me, and many times (both with and
without hallucinogens) have seen and experienced my own body,
and the world around me, as exquisite vibrating energy, alive,
an omnipresent beauty, with no separate self. Are these
supernatural? Imaginary? I don't know. But if they are real to
me at the time, and especially if enjoyable or instructive, that's
good enough. In fact, it's super.

Like with the colors of the tree bark, I'm confident there's a great
deal going on that we normally aren't able to perceive. Things
we call supernatural, if not fiction, will eventually have a scientific
explanation. Either it's there, or it's not.