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Fri Jul 6, 2012, 12:52 PM

"Taxes are penalties" works against "taxes are fair"

It doesn't do Democrats any good to keep bashing Romney on this one. If that gets crystallized because it gets repeated endlessly then "raising taxes on the rich" translates into "penalizing success" which is right in the Republican wheelhouse.

I don't think we realize how Roberts really messed with us yet.

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Reply "Taxes are penalties" works against "taxes are fair" (Original post)
dkf Jul 2012 OP
kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #1
dionysus Jul 2012 #4
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #2
Chan790 Jul 2012 #3
Igel Jul 2012 #5

Response to dkf (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 12:56 PM

1. Looking out for Rmoney again?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 01:02 PM

4. no shit.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 12:59 PM

2. It is the right that is making that framing ...

This is an exclusive, either/or argument. President Obama and his surrogates have consistently called it a penalty. Now, Roberts and the gop is calling it a tax.

Either way, they only ones that are making the taxes=penalty/penalty=taxes argument are the ones those norquistains (and "strategic far-sighted Duers) that have always made that argument.

No harm here.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 01:01 PM

3. Taxes as just.

Works both ways as a frame. It's just to pay your taxes to fund society. It's just to penalize poor conduct with punitive taxation.

Sidesteps that whole "punishing-success" thing. We're not punishing success, we're just taxing people justly.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:33 PM

5. Taxes are taxes.

They're neither just or injust, all on their own.

Pick your values.


Pick your taxation targets.

Pick your taxation levels.

Then you can evaluate "fair" or "unfair." Until you've done those three steps, you're burying your assumed values and making them inaccessible to discussion. Nice universalist thinking, but certainly biased.

There were even those who considered head taxes to be fair. (Often called "poll taxes," but "poll" meant "head" at the time and had no necessary connexion with elections. In a lot of jurisdictions you had to have paid your poll tax before you could vote, but in most of human history poll taxes existed in the absence of any popular elections, which involve one vote per head and were, in a sense, a head count.)

Some places in the US used to have a window or fireplace tax. I guess that's progressive and "fair," esp. if you had a one-fireplace or 3-window household exemption. I've heard of closet taxes, too.

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