Sun Jul 1, 2012, 05:33 PM
Pharaoh (6,312 posts)
Corporate party A and Corporate party BSeen on Facebook........... Break free of the left vs right indoctrinated, brainwashed belief system. TPTB designed the 2 party system as a means to utilize the Divide and Conquer strategy against We The People; a guarantee that we would never Unite !
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112 replies, 6910 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| Pharaoh | Jul 2012 | OP | |
| scheming daemons | Jul 2012 | #1 | |
| Quantess | Jul 2012 | #3 | |
| RufusTFirefly | Jul 2012 | #31 | |
| arely staircase | Jul 2012 | #73 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #6 | |
| freedom fighter jh | Jul 2012 | #17 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #21 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #60 | |
| arely staircase | Jul 2012 | #74 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #95 | |
| arely staircase | Jul 2012 | #100 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #15 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #19 | |
| BlueCaliDem | Jul 2012 | #62 | |
| Permanut | Jul 2012 | #2 | |
| joelz | Jul 2012 | #4 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #9 | |
| Raster | Jul 2012 | #12 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #26 | |
| alcibiades_mystery | Jul 2012 | #5 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #7 | |
| aquart | Jul 2012 | #37 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #61 | |
| hay rick | Jul 2012 | #63 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #102 | |
| StarryNight | Jul 2012 | #8 | |
| SidDithers | Jul 2012 | #10 | |
| Son of Gob | Jul 2012 | #11 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #23 | |
| NYC Liberal | Jul 2012 | #99 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #13 | |
| white_wolf | Jul 2012 | #47 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #56 | |
| pa28 | Jul 2012 | #76 | |
| Iggy | Jul 2012 | #78 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #79 | |
| white_wolf | Jul 2012 | #86 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #101 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #14 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #16 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #20 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #32 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #18 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #103 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #22 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #24 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #28 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #30 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #34 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #36 | |
| L0oniX | Jul 2012 | #64 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #65 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #25 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #29 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #35 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #40 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #70 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #82 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #84 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #87 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #89 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #90 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #91 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #93 | |
| rudycantfail | Jul 2012 | #106 | |
| Fumesucker | Jul 2012 | #51 | |
| Marrah_G | Jul 2012 | #27 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #33 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #38 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #44 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #46 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #49 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #54 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #57 | |
| marmar | Jul 2012 | #58 | |
| Fantastic Anarchist | Jul 2012 | #94 | |
| leftstreet | Jul 2012 | #50 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #52 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #71 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #75 | |
| girl gone mad | Jul 2012 | #80 | |
| rudycantfail | Jul 2012 | #107 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jul 2012 | #85 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #104 | |
| progressoid | Jul 2012 | #96 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #97 | |
| progressoid | Jul 2012 | #98 | |
| white_wolf | Jul 2012 | #39 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #42 | |
| iamthebandfanman | Jul 2012 | #41 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #43 | |
| GarroHorus | Jul 2012 | #45 | |
| Tarheel_Dem | Jul 2012 | #81 | |
| DeSwiss | Jul 2012 | #48 | |
| McCamy Taylor | Jul 2012 | #53 | |
| AynRandCollectedSS | Jul 2012 | #55 | |
| muriel_volestrangler | Jul 2012 | #59 | |
| RevStPatrick | Jul 2012 | #66 | |
| kentuck | Jul 2012 | #67 | |
| ErikJ | Jul 2012 | #68 | |
| ErikJ | Jul 2012 | #69 | |
| Le Taz Hot | Jul 2012 | #72 | |
| sabrina 1 | Jul 2012 | #105 | |
| Drale | Jul 2012 | #77 | |
| dionysus | Jul 2012 | #83 | |
| Nye Bevan | Jul 2012 | #88 | |
| treestar | Jul 2012 | #92 | |
| dtom67 | Jul 2012 | #108 | |
| joshcryer | Jul 2012 | #109 | |
| Huey P. Long | Jul 2012 | #110 | |
| MineralMan | Jul 2012 | #111 | |
| jenias | Dec 2012 | #112 |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 05:48 PM
scheming daemons (21,273 posts)
1. More of the bullshit false-equivalency meme that gave us Bush in 2000
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Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 05:59 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) Be suspicious of threads over the next 4 months that try to tell you there is no difference between the parties.
It is demonstrably false ... and it is the kind of stuff spread by trolls. |
Response to scheming daemons (Reply #1)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:16 PM
Quantess (24,189 posts)
3. There ARE real differences between the 2 parties
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but both ARE run by corporate interests. It's difficult to argue that isn't true.
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Response to Quantess (Reply #3)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:16 PM
RufusTFirefly (4,933 posts)
31. Differences? Indeed.
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Like the differences between Tide and Ivory Snow. Tide has oxy-boosting and Ivory Snow is a gentle cleanser.
But, as Arundhati Roy famously pointed out, they're both manufactured by the same corporation. |
Response to Quantess (Reply #3)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:00 PM
arely staircase (4,994 posts)
73. well put
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Those are not mutually exclusive categories are they? Both parties put corporate interests almost exclusively above anything else but when all is said and done they do represent very different classes of base voter-organizer-small money contributor. And so there are real differences in policy but the wealthy and the corporations always have their finger on the scale. They always have and always will. How often and with what force depends on everyone else willingness to stop them.
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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #1)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:30 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
6. The Supreme Court gave us Bush in 2000
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Besides, I thought Nader was the scapegoat of choice to cover for the felonious five.
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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #6)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:07 PM
freedom fighter jh (936 posts)
17. +1 But . . .
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. . . in addition to the Supreme Court, it was the shenanigans that went on with voting before things got to the SC: the purging of lots of people of color from the voter rolls, the confusing butterfly ballots. And with secretly coded electronic voting becoming common, who knows what other manipulations?
Bottom line: There are plenty of places besides Nader to place the blame. |
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #6)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
21. I put the blame on third party idiocy like is spouted in the OP n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #21)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:02 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
60. The blame for Bush stealing the election belongs only to the USSC.
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #60)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:07 PM
arely staircase (4,994 posts)
74. no nader deserves some and gore deserves some
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Gore could have won his home state if he had tried hard enough and Nader won enough votes in Florida that it is reasonable to assume that had he not participated in their primary Gore would have won it. The SCOTUS would never have gotten the case IMHO had the other two factors not been there.
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Response to arely staircase (Reply #74)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:25 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
95. Gore won the election, so obviously he succeeded in overcoming
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Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:26 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) all of the LEGAL and constitutional challenges he faced. Why do people keep forgetting this? So no, Nader had zero to do with Gore's loss for the simple reason that he did not lose. The SC is solely responsible for that when they stepped in after it was clear that Gore was going to win that election.
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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #95)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:16 PM
arely staircase (4,994 posts)
100. nader put florida within steeling distance (imho) nt
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Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:17 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to scheming daemons (Reply #1)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:05 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
15. Repuke-bad corporation vs Democratic-good corporation.
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I'm more suspicious of responses that diminish the effect of corporations on our government.
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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #1)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
19. I wish I could rec individual posts in a fail thread
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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #1)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:07 PM
BlueCaliDem (5,353 posts)
62. + 1 ~ They're looking for another win a la GWBush
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because they can't run on R'money's record.
You're correct . . . be veeeery suspicious of the false equivalency because it appears to only happen on our side. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 05:50 PM
Permanut (1,285 posts)
2. Oversimplification...
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Certain members of the two parties share characteristics, actions and policies in common, and some are indeed reprehensible, like the effect of corporate money (which seems to be Chomsky's underlying point, and a good one), but there are significant differences - preaching to the choir here - that give rise to such phenomena as Democratic Underground and Freeperville, which have very little in common.
I was not taught to recoil from the hate and hypocrisy on the right by TPTB; I do so from my own principles. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:25 PM
joelz (120 posts)
4. under simplification the majority of americans wanted single payer they got
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to buy private health insurance from companies that give to both parties read more chomsky or hedges here a bit from Cris
The debate surrounding the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act illustrates the impoverishment of our political life. Here is a law that had its origin in the right-wing Heritage Foundation, was first put into practice in 2006 in Massachusetts by then-Gov. Mitt Romney and was solidified into federal law after corporate lobbyists wrote legislation with more than 2,000 pages. It is a law that forces American citizens to buy a deeply defective product from private insurance companies. It is a law that is the equivalent of the bank bailout bill—some $447 billion in subsidies for insurance interests alone—for the pharmaceutical and insurance industries. It is a law that is unconstitutional. And it is a law by which President Barack Obama, and his corporate backers, extinguished the possibilities of both the public option and Medicare for all Americans. There is no substantial difference between Obamacare and Romneycare. There is no substantial difference between Obama and Romney. They are abject servants of the corporate state. And if you vote for one you vote for the other. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_real_health_care_debate_20120409/ |
Response to joelz (Reply #4)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:46 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
9. "There is no substantial difference between Obama and Romney"
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Well, we now know this is a lie: "It is a law that is unconstitutional". Perhaps the author should consider a rewrite? Oh, and by the way....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=1399 |
Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #9)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:57 PM
Raster (12,621 posts)
12. There are MANY substantial differences between President Obama and Rmoney. Many.
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Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:59 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) The original post was NOT about President Obama nor Mr. Rmoney. The original post was pointing out that both parties are "....somewhat different, but carry out the substantially same policies..."
In addition, both parties are soaked up to their eyeballs in corporate funds, and beholden to corporate interests. The original poster was NOT advocating on behalf of Mr. Rmoney nor advocating a third-party spoiler. |
Response to Raster (Reply #12)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:14 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
26. A rose by any other name still smells.....
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And if you'll pretend you don't know the goal of the o.p. and subsequent posts in support of the o.p., then we have nothing further to say to each other.
It's classic passive agressive behavior to skirt the rules, and a not so subtle attempt at suppression. We saw this republican enabling shit in 2000, and it's being repeated. You may choose to give it a pass if you wish, but "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining." |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:26 PM
alcibiades_mystery (28,572 posts)
5. Because Al Gore would have invaded Iraq...
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Oh, wait...
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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #5)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:33 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
7. Joe Lieberman would not have urged him to go to war with Iraq?
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How do you explain all the Dems voting for it then? And continuing to this day to vote to fund it?
Lieberman as his choice for VP makes me wonder what he might have done had he been president. Lieberman is a total warmonger when it comes to the ME. |
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #7)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:21 PM
aquart (67,682 posts)
37. Are you implying that Iraq was a threat to Israel? How?
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I always love classically understated anti-Semitism.
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Response to aquart (Reply #37)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:06 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
61. Are you out of your mind??? I want some proof of that false allegation please.
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Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:08 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) Lieberman was Gore's VP choice. Lieberman fully supported Bush's lies about Iraq.
Now please show me how you made the huge leap from those facts to anti-semitism and I expect an apology. I have no alerted on your post, because I rarely do that, but I want you to explain how you came to make that egregiously false statement. Edited to ask: Are you implying that we went to Iraq for Israel? I will await your answer before deciding whether or not this is a conspiracy theory you are pushing here. |
Response to aquart (Reply #37)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:08 PM
hay rick (3,548 posts)
63. Any criticism of Joe Lieberman is anti-semitic?
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Lieberman was an enthusiastic sponsor of the War in Iraq. Sometimes facts are just facts. Nothing else is "implied"...
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Response to hay rick (Reply #63)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:21 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
102. Thank you. Pretty stunning and totally false allegation
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and no apology either. Not that it was expected.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:39 PM
StarryNight (71 posts)
8. there may be a dime's worth of difference, but that's about it. nt
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:52 PM
SidDithers (27,593 posts)
10. Lots of bullshit gets posted on facebook...
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why are you bringing it here?
Sid |
Response to SidDithers (Reply #10)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 06:55 PM
Son of Gob (1,496 posts)
11. Because he wants people to vote against Democrats.
Response to Son of Gob (Reply #11)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:11 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
23. If I could rec a post in a fail thread, I'd rec yours. n/t
Response to Son of Gob (Reply #11)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:28 PM
NYC Liberal (15,618 posts)
99. Look for more of this stuff as we get closer to the election.
Response to SidDithers (Reply #10)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:01 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
13. He's trying to piss you off.
Response to SidDithers (Reply #10)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:42 PM
white_wolf (5,736 posts)
47. Bullshit? Chomsky is one of the few voices that actually speaks the truth in this country.
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Everything he said in that statement was a fact.
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Response to white_wolf (Reply #47)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:53 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
56. Funy, I have yet to see Chomsky say much of anything that was true. n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #56)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:21 PM
pa28 (3,704 posts)
76. His decades of distinguished work just sank like the Titanic.
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Nice one bro.
Even though you misspelled "funny" the whole critique still holds up. |
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #56)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:24 PM
Iggy (1,418 posts)
78. Ever hear of Sen Feinstein?
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one of the wealthiest, if not THE wealthiest senator?
No conflict of interest with the other capital investment company that starts with a "B"? Richard Blum... Hellooooooooo? what a load. |
Response to Iggy (Reply #78)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:27 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
79. Ever hear of reality?
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Chomsky lives in fantasyland. He's a moron.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #79)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:35 AM
white_wolf (5,736 posts)
86. Yes, one of the most respected men in his field is a "moron."
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Just admit, you can't stand anyone who criticizes the Democratic Party, even if the criticism is true.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #79)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:19 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
101. Are you sure you are in the right place?
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:01 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
14. But..but..we do get to vote for "not as bad". Not "good" mind you, but "not as bad".
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Will that be one teaspon, or two, of arsenic, sir?
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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #14)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:06 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
16. Aren't we voting for corporations either way?
Response to L0oniX (Reply #16)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
20. Not directly, you silly. Just for their employees.
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #20)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:16 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
32. My bad.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:07 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
18. Fail thread is EPIC FAIL n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #18)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:24 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
103. Thanks for reminding me to rec it. Rec'd for Chomsky
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hated by the Right, because he was on them a long time ago.
Btw, I asked before, but are you sure you are in the right place? You seem lost. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:10 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
22. Lots of people hate Chomsky ...doesn't matter to them if he is right.
Response to L0oniX (Reply #22)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:11 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
24. Chomsky is almost always WRONG n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #24)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:15 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
28. Enjoy your stay here.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #24)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:16 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
30. Did you forget the sarcasm smiley?
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nt
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Response to marmar (Reply #30)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:17 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
34. No, Chomsky is a fucking idiot and almost always wrong. n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #34)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:19 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
36. Umm, okay.
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nt |
Response to marmar (Reply #36)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:19 PM
L0oniX (17,992 posts)
64. Obviously some have come here from CluelessUnderground.duh
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Response to L0oniX (Reply #64)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:21 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
65. I know. It's all rather funny, in a tragicomic kind of way.
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nt
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Response to L0oniX (Reply #22)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:13 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
25. Chomsky is (EEEK!!) Too liberal!!
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But, it is fun to watch the "moderates" squirm and rationalize the two-party/one boss system.
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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #25)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:15 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
29. Know what would be even funnier? If Chomsky could get elected dogcatcher. ANYWHERE!
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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #29)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:18 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
35. Chomsky isn't a politician. And, he's too damned honest to be a successful one.
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #35)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:29 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
40. "Too honest"? Translation: If you can't do? Critcize.
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The last refuge of an unelectable scoundrel.
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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #40)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 09:18 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
70. Alas, we have a government made up of electable scoundrels.
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But, thanks for pointing that out.
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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #70)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 11:54 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
82. Do me a favor? Please tell me what it is that liberals do between presidential elections?
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If, as seems to be the run of the mill complaint, both parties suck equally, what are you guys doing between elections? I've got news for you & Noam, pointing fingers is not a strategy, and typing angry screeds on the internet is not activism. How many people know, or even give a shit who Noam Chomsky is?
I beg you, do something besides complaining. The tea party did it. They started small, by grooming candidates who could take over school boards, and city councils. Liberals should stop talking so much, find people who adhere to your strict ideology, who want to run under your banner, and finally put some skin in the game. Venting your spleen here does absolutely nothing in furtherance of your ultimate goal. |
Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #82)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:20 AM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
84. I'm not angry, I'm amused.
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Being an Anarchist, I don't have a "Strict ideology" or a "banner".
I'm just a citizen who thinks that holding (alleged) "public servants" accountable is the responsibility of the citizens of an (alleged) democracy no matter which of the establishment parties they belong to. You seem to be the one with the "strict ideology" and have found candidates to run under your "banner". Nor did I say that both parties "suck equally". I've been a registered Democrat since 1965 and usually vote for Democratic nominees. But, I don't give them a pass just because they're "not as bad". |
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #84)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 01:03 AM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
87. You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that this BIG tent is your personal....
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playground. Many belief systems under our BIG tent. As I stated before, pissing and moaning on the internet is in no way, activism. The time to voice all the many grievances of the chronically discontent begins with organizing meetings within your local party establishment. Ever hear of bottom/up?
That's the problem I have with you guys, you pop up every four years, make a bunch of noise, and are rarely heard from in between. Why you guys think this country is clamoring for some US version of Hugo Chavez, is truly baffling, and a bit absurd. There's been no indication of that, not since Bill Clinton was in the White House. Every candidate who has run to the hard left has been, and will continue to be, soundly rejected by the rank-n-file. If "liberals" are convinced that they know what's best for all of us, why have they been unable to convince the party at large? Primaries are where we duke it out, and the last one standing always seems to be moderate/center-left. Why is that? |
Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #87)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 01:16 AM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
89. Why? See the OP.
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We have two capitalist parties who are beholden to the monied interests who pay them well with bribes..er...campaign contributions.
Unfortunately, the "Big Tent" is bought and paid for by the capitalists and run by their lackeys. "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789. "Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795. “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams |
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #89)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 01:48 AM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
90. Aren't they all dead? How far back you wanna take us?
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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #90)
Tierra_y_Libertad This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #90)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:22 AM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
93. Noam Chomsky is dead??
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Do you discount the others words because they're dead? So are FDR, Truman, and the Kennedys. But, since you pointed to Clinton, I can guess that the 3rd Way sell outs are your ideal.
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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #93)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:43 PM
rudycantfail (300 posts)
106. When you get a rebuttal like #90
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do you ever wonder, "why the hell do I even bother?"
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Response to L0oniX (Reply #22)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:46 PM
Fumesucker (32,056 posts)
51. Oh, it matters to them, they hate Chomsky because he *is* correct. n/t
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:15 PM
Marrah_G (22,679 posts)
27. Right on Noam!
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:17 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
33. It's interesting how posts promoting third party movements are allowed to stand on DU
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Maybe this forum should be renamed Third Party Underground.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #33)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:23 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
38. Are you fearful that the OP might effect your vote?
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Or, anyone's? This is a discussion board. Not an echo chamber for the establishment.
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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #38)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:36 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
44. ANYBODY who is not 100% behind Obama and is posting on this forum is my enemy. n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #44)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:41 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
46. Spare us the GW Bush ultimatum bullshit.....You can be completely behind Obama.....
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...... and still criticize Democratic Party policies. That Stasi guard lockstep crap is tired. |
Response to marmar (Reply #46)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:46 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
49. That's the kind of shit that lead to Holder being held in contempt.
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Because the right wing backed Bush 100%, nobody was ever going to be held in contempt, but the bullshit from leftist purists createds a climate where the right is emboldened for this sort of shit.
Fuck that shit. Anybody engaged in it is as much my enemy as Limbaugh. |
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #49)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:49 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
54. 'createds a climate where the right is emboldened for this sort of shit'
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No. Weak-kneed centrists and Blue Dogs who don't fight and ally with the Repugs created that climate. The "leftists" aren't the problem. |
Response to marmar (Reply #54)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:55 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
57. Cenk Uygur, Noam Chomsky, David Sirota, and idiots like them are the problem. n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #57)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:59 PM
marmar (61,325 posts)
58. So Noam Chomsky forced 17 Dems to vote to hold Eric Holder in contempt?
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Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:00 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2) The intellectual dishonesty is laughable.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #57)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:39 PM
Fantastic Anarchist (2,537 posts)
94. It seems to me that it is you that is the problem.
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #44)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:46 PM
leftstreet (22,212 posts)
50. Maybe that's why the membership here is so low
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ya think?
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Response to leftstreet (Reply #50)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:48 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
52. Good point
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Mostly people who have nothing good to say about the Democratic Party any way.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #44)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 09:20 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
71. How about 99%? 85%? 44%? Or, are you a complete "purist" and only 100% is good enough?
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #71)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:19 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
75. Right now, 100% is imperative. Anything less makes the person my enemy.
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Period.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #75)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:40 PM
girl gone mad (20,634 posts)
80. That's just loco.
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Maybe even a little bit loco zoco.
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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #80)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:49 PM
rudycantfail (300 posts)
107. That's a DUzy!
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #75)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:22 AM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,779 posts)
85. And, you're calling others "purists"?
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I love irony.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #44)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:26 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
104. Save that rightwing 'with us or against us'
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for non-Democratic boards. You seem to have forgotten what board you are posting on.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #33)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:02 PM
progressoid (27,380 posts)
96. The OP is not promoting a third party movement.
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I see it as encouraging us to break our party from it's big business ties.
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Response to progressoid (Reply #96)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:04 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
97. Any post making the "Republicans and Democrats are the same" bullshit argument,...
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by its very nature is advocating for third parties.
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Response to GarroHorus (Reply #97)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:11 PM
progressoid (27,380 posts)
98. In your opinion.
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Pointing out our party's embrace of corporate cash and power does not necessarily mean advocating third parties.
I will stay a Democrat and fight to return the party to it's liberal and progressive ideals. In fact I think it's my duty as a Democrat to do so. A third party consideration doesn't enter into the equation. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:27 PM
white_wolf (5,736 posts)
39. Once again Chomsky speaks the truth.
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I wish we had a couple 100 more of him around and a lot less of these pragmatic "centrists" and "moderates." I'm sick of their right-wing bullshit.
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Response to white_wolf (Reply #39)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:32 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
42. You know what they say...."wish in one hand......"
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Like there's some big demand, in the U.S., for the Noam Chomsky's of the world. Hell, there's not even a demand for Chomsky in the Democratic Party.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:30 PM
iamthebandfanman (6,761 posts)
41. I recced
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because i agree...
but as long as the system is the way it is.. ill vote democratic ill just keep hopin' one day we will finally have a 4 party system (not 3, i dont think 3 helps anybody)... |
Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #41)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:33 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
43. In case you didn't notice, there are tons of parties. They're completely unelectable, but....
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they're there, and on the ballot every four years.
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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #43)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:37 PM
GarroHorus (1,055 posts)
45. and are DIRECTLY responsible for 8 years of Bush. n/t
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #45)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 11:33 PM
Tarheel_Dem (16,980 posts)
81. Exactly. nt
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:44 PM
DeSwiss (17,458 posts)
48. Correct assessment.
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The Siamese Twins
- And anyone who can't see this is blind in one eye, and can't see out the other......
K&R |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:48 PM
McCamy Taylor (13,711 posts)
53. Same as Gore Vidal's "money party"---but with Citizens United one side is getting all the corporate
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money. So, now there is a difference.
Interesting sentiment for a post at DU. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:49 PM
AynRandCollectedSS (108 posts)
55. I understand the point, BUT...
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Unless you're ready to storm the Bastille and bust out the guillotines (and I might follow you if you do, but YOU make the first move, okay?) then working within the system is all we can do.
Otherwise, sitting here and making blanket statements without really researching each individual circumstance is meaningless and distracting. For example, do you even know how the ACA came about or do you just assume in your fantasy world that the nefarious PTB met in a dark room (like at Jekyll Island all those years ago) to unleash their dastardly plans upon the American people? It was a process, and like any process undertaken in the American legislative system, major compromises were eventually made. Do you know why the two-parties sometimes seem the same? Because they have to compromise like this all the time and neither ever gets what they really want. Is there a level of corporatism that I want OUT of politics completely? Yes. Based on JUST that fact can you assume that both parties are the same? NO...it's a logical fallacy, at best and a way to undermine their very real differences in an attempt to disempower those that support them, at worst. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:00 PM
muriel_volestrangler (65,808 posts)
59. No-one's stopping you breaking free of the Democratic Party
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Just leave it, if it pisses you off so much. It would make more sense to moan about it somewhere else than on a Democratic-supporting site, though.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:27 PM
RevStPatrick (1,935 posts)
66. Corporate party D and Corporate party R
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The Blue and The Red.
I call them the Global Corporate Socialists and the Global Corporate Fascists. I'll take the Global Corporate Socialists every time, but there are certainly things I don't like about them, and I'd rather have some more real choices... |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:31 PM
kentuck (66,799 posts)
67. More true today than any time I can remember...
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Really. How different were Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan? |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:37 PM
ErikJ (2,808 posts)
68. Corporations OWN the GOP and RENT the Dems.
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:44 PM
ErikJ (2,808 posts)
69. T. Hartmann video- There's a Major Difference in the Two Party Platforms
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 09:36 PM
Le Taz Hot (14,633 posts)
72. I find the fact that Chomsky's critics
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are made of the right wing and "third-way" Democrats more than a little coincidental.
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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #72)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:30 PM
sabrina 1 (34,893 posts)
105. Yep, lots of people have noticed that.
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Ironically while they rail against Chomsky, they only help to prove him correct.
We must save this Party from the right wing infiltrators who call themselves the 'third way'. It is our party and we should never have been so casual about what was going on to bring rightwing policies into this party. 'Big Tent' did not mean absorbing the right into the mix. They have their own party. The Dem Party is the party of the people, NOT the party Corporate America and I think Chomsky and others want to see people fight to maintain at least one party that operates for the people. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:22 PM
Drale (7,487 posts)
77. Ok if there is really no difference
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then lets just elect all Democrats since it won't matter.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sun Jul 1, 2012, 11:56 PM
dionysus (22,297 posts)
83. yay, more anti-dem bullshit on DU... take it over to the treebaggers, they'll love it.
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 01:14 AM
Nye Bevan (11,266 posts)
88. Yeah sure. Both parties are the same, so why bother to vote?
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This type of post is theoretically against DU rules during election season; however, the jury voted 3-3 to keep.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:21 AM
treestar (41,423 posts)
92. So do what, close all businesses?
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Let's have no businesses and no jobs!
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:20 PM
dtom67 (419 posts)
108. Critical Observations are far more valid than Blind Political masterbation...
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This post is a fair assessment of our situation. Why do you think Obama is trying to run without corporate donations?
If being confronted by an idea like this makes you stay home instead of voting then good riddance. This post should be food for thought. Chomsky is not interested in our bi-cameral system . He really isn't concerned with being a "Liberal", either. He is a utopian thinker who believes that grass-roots movements are the key to winning a just society. He really has nothing to do with political discourse within our political system( i.e. he is neither a Democrat, nor a liberal. He is, however, a populist. This makes him OK in my book.) His Quote being posted here should be seen as an attempt to keep us honest; If any among you believe that corporations don't write policy in Democratic administrations, than you are truly naive. It is an issue we must address before both parties really do become the same. Posts that promote endless fist-pumping about how we are gonna "destroy Romney in november " are far more likely to make people stay home on election day than posts of dissent. Why vote if Obama is a shoo-in? Of course, he is not a shoo-in. We have to keep pushing to raise awareness and get out the vote. |
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:23 PM
joshcryer (39,853 posts)
109. Chomsky is of course right, but he endorsed Obama.
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:39 PM
Huey P. Long (1,932 posts)
110. occupy. -eom
Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:52 PM
MineralMan (54,641 posts)
111. Chomsky is a recognized expert at linguistics.
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He has earned a distinguished reputation in his field.
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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 04:13 AM
jenias (1 post)
112. Spam deleted by azurnoir (MIR Team)


- And anyone who can't see this is blind in one eye, and can't see out the other......