Official Rachel Maddow Show Watch Party thread!

[bettyellen]

I just ordered a bottle of whiskey.

[uponit7771]

1. Anything new other than Benedict Donald is a traitor?

[JTFrog]

3. Says she has Drumpf's tax returns. nt

[uponit7771]

5. All of them.... With schedules?!?!

[JTFrog]

6. No details....

The suspense is killing me!

[uponit7771]

7. Got it!!

[bettyellen]

18. They're his 2005 and he reported 150 million income

[bettyellen]

8. We don't know except that she says it's true - seriously! We will find out in 30 min...

[bettyellen]

19. 2005 only

[kstewart33]

73. She is first presenting her entire tax-related case against Trump.

She's doing it because she knows her ratings tonight will be sky high, and she wants to tell them the entire story. She's doing a great job.

[JTFrog]

2. Please let there be something there.

I really hate even getting my hopes up at this point, but.....

[bettyellen]

11. I am hoping it cracks the issue WIDE open so people insist on seeing all of them....

[LenaBaby61]

13. I really hate even getting my hopes up at this point, but.....

Agree ...

HOPE they're current FEDERAL taxes and not old/current State taxes.

[LenaBaby61]

4. Official Rachel Maddow Show Watch Party thread!

[demmiblue]

9. Meh.

Though I hope that I am pleasantly surprised tomorrow!

[bettyellen]

14. Maddow deserves more than a "meh". Her reporting has been exemplary as of late.

[ailsagirl]

151. HEAR, HEAR!!

[Fearless]

10. Take down that traitorous bastard Rachel!

[shenmue]

12. I may get some popcorn

[bettyellen]

22. I'm making a whiskey on the rocks.

[Loki Liesmith]

15. If it's just the 1040

How interesting can it be?

[scheming daemons]

16. It is the 1040 from 2005, reportedly

[Loki Liesmith]

17. That's about when foreign money

Started recapitalizing him. But without the supplemental filings I don't know how much it will tell us.

[bettyellen]

20. I hope- I thought it could be later....

[Kaotic]

122. That's when the real estate market was the hottest..the Ruskies started bailing out Trump

around 2008 after none of the U.S. banks would loan him or anyone else $$.

[bettyellen]

21. Kick for Amaryllis and all those who cannot watch at home- let's quote for them!

[Amaryllis]

26. THANK YOU bettyellen!

[theglammistress]

23. I'm so excited

We've been waiting for this - ANY tax news really.

[bettyellen]

24. Bummer they are not recent but welcome any press attention they do get!

[L. Coyote]

25. Trump probably leaked the two best pages for the one year he actually paid something.

Yes, I've been in politics toooo long!

[uponit7771]

38. +1, possible ... Benedict Donald is grimy bastard

[politicat]

156. Even 38M on 150M in income is barely in the assets billionaire category.

Definitely not in the income billionaire category.

If that's a good year, then he's not nearly as rich as he brands himself. (Though 2005 wasn't a great year - market was janky, lost about 200 points between 1/1/2005 and 12/31/2005. Real estate was flaky. That was a mini-recession year.)

If he's typical of most developers, he's leveraged to his hairline (the real one or the toupee one, doesn't matter) and has at least as much debt as assets. Often more. Income in real estate development is a result of churn, and it never sticks around for long. We don't have his debt statements.

We can't forget that around $42M of that income was "work" income -- $3M an episode for 14 episodes. That wasn't business/investment income. It was from the sideshow.

I think the takeaway may be -- he's not as rich as he says he is. Not if that's a good year.

[bettyellen]

27. Report obtained by David Cay Johnston from DC report

[bdamomma]

37. David Cay Johnston

better watch his back. He knows tRump well.

[bettyellen]

40. Ohhhh. Tks for correction- he will be joining Rachel to discuss the forms in depth....

[True Dough]

28. How long until we get a defensive Drumpf tweet?

FAKE TAXES!!!

[uponit7771]

29. Hope this is not a trap, these could be released by Benedict Donald himself !!

[itsrobert]

30. Rachel seems nervous

Or she is trying to hold back her emotions?

[Amaryllis]

33. Is she reporting something to get emotional about?

[bettyellen]

39. She said her and the guy who passed them to her will be going into detail...

[uponit7771]

34. They must have schedules, otherwise the simple 1040 tells us little... they must have schedules

[PatSeg]

60. It seems to be nervous excitement

That's how I'd be.

[itsrobert]

63. exactly

she's setting it up nicely (I hope)

[chillfactor]

31. I have some red wine next to me.

[bettyellen]

36. Whiskey and water on the rocks here.

[uponit7771]

32. WOW NIXON WAS A CROOKED FUCK !!! Damn even had to pay 500,000 for fraud deductions!!!

[bettyellen]

35. Significant that this is only 1040 and it's coming now...comping to Nixon who also hid his taxes and

Cheated.

Going over history and context - HRC's taxes are seen back to 1997.

DT lied about the audit, IRS says it's not a reason.
And all candidates have released since Nixon.

[MFM008]

41. watching

[bettyellen]

43. She is using this as an opportunity to explain why more current returns matter so very much!!

[Amaryllis]

42. Live stream here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028792075

[bettyellen]

44. Oh wow! Open two windows and watch w us!

[Amaryllis]

49. I did! HAve to leave at 6:30 unfortunately but will check out this thread for details of

second half when i get home.

[bettyellen]

57. There's also a downloadable podcast that should be available at 8pm PST

[JudyM]

54. Thanks, Amaryllis!

[Baitball Blogger]

45. Long overture.

Nothing new yet, nine minutes in. She is teasing, I think, showing how the tax records could enlighten us regarding many of the sweet deals that we already know about.

[bettyellen]

50. I'm guessing she's using the hype to educate new comers, which is good...

[BannonsLiver]

84. It's actually just the format of the show

Every night she begins with a segment roughly 20 minutes that is a deep dive into one subject, usually by way of a circular route as far as her rhetorical style. Some people don't like that, but I usually appreciate the added context. She's really not doing anything different with tonight's show.

[uponit7771]

66. This is smart, she's got an audience tonight might as well go through the good stuff

[bettyellen]

46. She's explaining the probable Russian money laundering ....

[nolabear]

47. We should have known she's been weaving something with all those oligarch stories.

This has been in the works for some time.

[stillsoleft]

59. Now I think her first tweet was brilliant

And worth the risk. Everyone is watching

[WiffenPoof]

48. She is connecting the dots..

Potential money laundering.

[Amaryllis]

52. She is brilliant at setting the stage for maximum impact.

[WiffenPoof]

58. From your keyboard...

...to God's ears

[bdamomma]

51. Russia is wrapped

around rumps groin area.

[Greywing]

53. I think this will be a nice little package about financial ties to Russia

and Deutsche Bank ... that's why WH moved so fast (move along, nothing to see here)

[riversedge]

55. I made a homemade lemon meringue pie this afternoon. Cooled now and enjoying my

first piece.

[malaise]

67. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

I love lemon meringue pie

[riversedge]

79. I only make it a few times a year-maybe 3. It is a treat. Have a nice evening.

[malaise]

83. Haven't made it in years

Used to make it a lot

[riversedge]

127. We were suspose to get a few buckets of smelt for tonight so I bought some lemons but then

the folks getting the smelt said it is a slow year--water too cold yet (it has been only 2 to 3 degrees above zero last several days here). Anyway, had these fresh lemons to use up (will have to get more for next week--hope the smelt are running).

[malaise]

131. Nothing like fresh lemons

make some lemonade

[bdamomma]

116. hmmm.....

that sounds yummy! enjoy.

[WiffenPoof]

56. Is she scripted....

Or is she just winging it?

[uponit7771]

62. Right now she's summarizing Benedict Donald's nasty news... SMART, she's got an audience tonight

... and might as well go through some of the hard evidence

[Baitball Blogger]

64. She doesn't sound like she's winging it.

But, she does seem like she's building up to something. She keeps asking questions and concluding that the tax returns might be able to provide information.

[nolabear]

65. I think scripted but beautifully done.

[Amaryllis]

68. often wondered that myself. She is brilliant enough to do it iwth just bullet points, no teleprompt,

but probably has to be scripted for legal purposes. Sure it gets run by their lawyers.

[malaise]

61. Help yourself

[bettyellen]

88. Yummy!thank you!!

[Baitball Blogger]

69. Tax Return is for 2005.

[WiffenPoof]

70. You KNOW Trump is watching this...

Shitting his clown pants.

[Amaryllis]

71. Tweet follow up or will it be like after O wiretapping where he goes silent?

[bettyellen]

78. He preemptively released the income declared and said it was "illegal" for her to release them...

[monmouth4]

72. So is Bannon, I'm sure..nt

[True Dough]

80. So are the Russians

via the microwave in Rachel's studio!

[C Moon]

161. :D

[Equinox Moon]

125. It is possible he leaked this himself.

We will never know.

[babylonsister]

74. He might be beholden to Russia, bottom line. Keep

the pressure up until he releases those tax returns. ALL of them.

[bettyellen]

85. That's the drum Maddow is beating....

[babylonsister]

90. I know, I'm watching!

[bettyellen]

75. Is he "financially beholden". We can't know without getting these tax returns...

Unrelenting pressure to release them.

[Kaotic]

76. This is an 11 yr old pre-financial crisis tax return...not optimistic there will be anything

there. The Ruskies got involved with Trump after the financial markets went into meltdown and Donnie boy needed a bailout.

[Kaotic]

102. This is a YUGE NOTHINGBURGER!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Kingofalldems]

165. Exactly what Fox news said the next morning. And by multiple 'news' people there.

[Amaryllis]

77. Daily Beast report on what taxes reveal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141728276

[oberliner]

86. Which is basically nothing

Unfortunately.

[WiffenPoof]

81. This is one of the rare times...

...that I don't mind a long set up by Rachel. She has the audience tonight... Perfect time to review and connect the dots.

So far, so good.

[bdamomma]

82. oh WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Karma. ha! this ought to be good.

[shenmue]

89. Yes

[uponit7771]

87. CRAP !!! NO SCHEDULES !!! CRAP !!! The schedules are the details of the right offs !!

[bettyellen]

92. Bummer- can they extrapolate what could be on the schedule?

[uponit7771]

95. Nope, the 1040s are basically summary pages... oh well

[D_Master81]

91. dailybeast

if that dailybeast article is correct, its basically saying what i said it would be, he made a ton of money and paid around 20% in taxes. this wont change any minds

[riversedge]

93. The reporter who got the return will be coming up.

[bettyellen]

99. Who could be giving this up and might they have more?

[riversedge]

119. Well, we have a few crumbs on the tax trail. Guess we just have to stay tuned for now unless

someone above my thinking scale gets a glue as to where more might be or if any good information can be gleamed from these 2 pages.

On another note, I think the White Houses indignation on this return is fake. I think Donald released them. After all, it showed he did pay millions of taxes. IMHO. No evidence, just a hunch.

[elleng]

94. Turned up in David Cay Johnston's mail box.

She notes First Amendment gives her/MSNBC right to publish it.

[uponit7771]

97. ... and its only the summary pages which don't mean shit since the details of rights are on schedule

[pangaia]

96. I had and have a feeling this will be nothing...

[oberliner]

101. It is a big nothing

As expected.

[WiffenPoof]

98. Damn.... This better not fizzle out....NT

[riversedge]

100. Only 2 pages--not the schedules or other required pages that would be included in the 2005

tax filing.

[oberliner]

103. Big zero

No useful information.

[riversedge]

111. We do not have the sourse of his income. drats.

[bettyellen]

104. Speculation that Donald could have leaked these himself, has leaked before....

[Kaotic]

120. I absolutely believe Trump leaked this himself...

Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return. This is a big nothingburger.

Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.

[riversedge]

105. David Cay Johnston saying possible that Donald leaked his own 2 page return.

[Kaotic]

123. Probably, likely certainly..this return makes Trump look good actually.

Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return.

Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.

[calimary]

149. Welcome to DU, Kaotic!

I noticed that, too. Somebody with 500 businesses and all kinds of convolutions (and possibly money laundering) over several decades would NOT be able to fit it into two pages, would they?

[JenniferJuniper]

106. Merry Fitzmas

[bettyellen]

109. Welcome back to DU, JJ!

[bettyellen]

107. Alternative Minimum tax is the only reason he paid a lot less tax.....

And DT wants to get rid of that.

[ffr]

139. You mean more. His FIT was $5.4m, AMT was $31m.

Fixed.

[Takket]

108. meh

nothing here the hurts 45 at all.

but she's making a good point that it is absurd that this is all we have.

[no_hypocrisy]

115. I'm underwhelmed.

More or less speculation of what's NOT on the tax return.

If MSNBC had more information, they're withholding, perhaps after the WH raised a squawk about illegality.

[Kaotic]

110. Trump leaked this return...NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return.

Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.

[pangaia]

113. And she fell for it...

[bettyellen]

118. She's used it as an opportunity to educate new viewers, so that's good.

[TimeToGo]

124. No, not really. It gets him sympathy

Now he can say, see?

If she wanted to educate -- she could have explained what we have, and then talked about the importance of getting all the returns. Not spend all that time building.

And you don't tweet it out -- raising all these expectations.

[Kaotic]

126. exactly..she's being used.

[bettyellen]

128. Anyone who discusses the taxes is doing it in the context of "what is he hiding" and that's good!

[TimeToGo]

133. Only those of us who already think that

[bettyellen]

137. She spent the entire show explaining why it's crucial to the Russian investigation....

And why it appears so shady he has not.

[TimeToGo]

148. Yes, that's fine

And good for her. But she had nothing. And now it will be spun that there is nothing.

As I said, talk about the return for a couple of minutes, and then spend time talking about how this is not enough and give the reasons that you point out.

But she knew she had nothing before promoting the show. So, that's on her.

[bettyellen]

140. She gave a run down of the Russian connections as context for the details we need to confirm or

Price false the allegations of being beholden to foreign powers. I thought she put out a great recap of the last couple of months reporting for new viewers.

[Lucky Luciano]

136. That would be fine except it was hyped. Glad she reported it,

...but it was overplayed. I actually turned on MSNBC and I never watch tv news.

[bettyellen]

138. HA - then it worked!

[Lucky Luciano]

146. It worked to get me to turn on the tv, but I don't

feel like much has changed. A bullet point of info for me. Hopefully the rabbit hole goes much deeper...and I will be thrilled if she goes further down that rabbit hole which she will definitely try to do.

[bettyellen]

150. She spent the whole hour basically trying to drum up bigger interest and explain

In real detail what answers we need and why it's crucial.
I get that for you and me it's like a rerun, but I don't mind if she managed to get a whole lot of new eyes on the whole thing. I thought the summary of connections and possible self dealing was really good even though none was new to me. I know people who never or rarely watch will tune in.

[HoneyBadger]

144. I assume that you would rather it not be leaked unless it was worthwhile

Guessing that whoever provided it, did so requiring that it be publicized. If their requirements were met, perhaps they will leak the next piece.

[JenniferJuniper]

112. CNN.com is reporting WH released the tax records.

[DeminPennswoods]

129. No, just confirmed the info

nt

[JenniferJuniper]

132. "WH releases some tax details"

Current headline

I know they don't want to mention MSNBC, but this is clearly implying this came from the WH first. Whether that is true or not who knows, but even Rachel's guest said he wouldn't be surprised if these pages came from Trump.

[DeminPennswoods]

141. MSNBC sent the 1040s to WH for confirmation

Maddow said MSNBC sent a copy to the WH asking them to confirm they were indeed Trump's 2005 returns.
That's why info/statement came from WH came first - they're trying to get in front of the story.

[JenniferJuniper]

147. I understand that. Point is CNN is helping the WH out here.

[bettyellen]

114. DT peeps involved with "State sponsored network of international criminals"

Which explains why we need much more info on sources of income.

[Adrahil]

117. Well, it's not nothing, but it ain't much...

We need to know income sources.

[SHRED]

121. Yup

[elmac]

130. yep, bet tRump leaked them

a shiny object to keep people focused on anything but Russia and his crime boss putin. 12 yr old, come on, its before the crash.

[ffr]

134. We think a lot alike!

Hope it's all tied out nicely to bridge the gaps between 2006 and 2016's Russian collusion.

[DeminPennswoods]

135. A couple points to make

First, Rachel's right that Trump's tax returns are in a lot of places, not just at the IRS. And, if someone leaked the 1040 form, the chances are increasing that more returns will turn up.

Second, look at the WH response. It confirms the info, but goes on to try and sound threatening to others who might send copies of tax info to reporters. That tells me the WH is thinking along the same lines as Maddow.

[bettyellen]

143. Excellent points, and I thought it was a good primer for those newer...

She covered a shit ton of connections and had a lot of new viewers tonight.

[moonscape]

160. Why does she have a lot of new viewers tonight?

Ah, editing to say I get it. Was gone all day and just catching up!

[Tatiana]

142. Why this show was important.

Rachel essentially gave cover to one of dozens of individuals who may have copies of Trump's previous tax returns to release them. And, she expressed in no uncertain terms why it was important for the public to have access to the information.

If there are some low-level unaware people involved who have access to the returns, Rachel allowed her guest to spell out exactly what we needed to see.

Plus, she has the WH in a panic thinking that she may be getting close to what they are trying to hide. That White House statement was ridiculously long and lacking in professionalism. It sounded slightly panicked.

So... I'm waiting for the patriot to step forward and leak the information. Now that they know what to leak and understand that it can be published by a journalist under the 1st Amendment.

Tonight's show really felt like it was meant for someone(s) in particular.

[grantcart]

145. unless Trump leaked it, which is the most likely explanation

i

[TimeToGo]

152. Yep

[Madam45for2923]

154. I like your take!

[HoneyBadger]

153. My conspiracy theory is that the return was tweaked

It is illegal to publish actual returns. So maybe the leaker copied the exact info to another blank form. Or tweaked the numbers by an insignificant digit. Enough for Maddie to question the validity. Enough for everyone to avoid jail. By the White House validating the round numbers, but not the returns, they appear to know this. Gives the leaker and Maddow mutual credibility. What next? What role is the White House playing in this?

[TimeToGo]

155. "It is illegal to publish actual returns."

Says . . .?

[HoneyBadger]

157. Newsweek last year

http://www.newsweek.com/was-it-illegal-publish-trump-tax-returns-506310

[mnhtnbb]

158. No. Rachel addressed this. It is NOT illegal to publish the returns if they were unsolicited.

The press has the right to publish them--covered by the 1st amendment.


Trump's lawyers have argued (about the state returns that appeared last fall) that it was illegal to publish
them but have gotten no where with that argument.

[moonscape]

162. And mine is that this is a giant set-up by T and

Assoc. It shows him actually paying taxes, something he didn't do for prior years. It shows him actually making $$, which many other years might well not. It comes as diversion from health care and leading into tax 'reform' - and the WH doesn't sound pissed off enough.

Granted, I haven't been home long from a day away w/ no media and am catching up and didn't watch Rachel, but ...

[ancianita]

159. I'm feelin' the hysterical/historical moment! But the larger American concern: divided loyalty.

[Bayard]

163. Disappointing....

Wasn't much there. No schedules, and from 2005. But, its getting all kinds of, "Breaking News" hype.

Another case of--Look over here at this sparkly thing, instead of focusing on Russia. Rachel has repeatedly shown she can do a lot better than this.

[deaniac21]

164. We have been played for ratings.....