Has the NRA purchased the contempt vote of 30 Democrats? This is what the allegation

the various gun control groups don't. It is as simple as that. There is no Democratic group that can act as a counterweight to the NRA when it comes to guns.

the paranoids really fall for their bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

that they will need the votes of millions of those paranoids to control congress and the White House and find a way to energize them instead of the NRA, then the future looks grim.

Fuck the NRA. And all their bullshit. And their paranoid followers.

I may not feel as self righteous as you do but then I have kids whose future I care about. A future that requires good Democrats running our country.

Includes right wingers like Grover Norquist, Teddy Nugent, Wayne LaPierre, etc., among leadership.

we don't have a Democrat version of the NRA that supports Democrats who are pro-2A and encourages Democrats who might consider gun bans as acceptable to change their views. Such a group needn't support a single Republican but would align with traditionally Democrat constituencies (union members, etc) that are also pro-2A.

You really expect that to get more than a literal handful of gun owners, Democrat or otherwise, to sign up for?

What else you go? Pro-animal rights that supports slaughterhouses? Pro-organic foods for Monsanto?

Such a group would both supprt pro-2A Dems while working to change the policy views of Dems that support gun control.

If this was about subsidizing crops, we wouldn't be having this argument. Those legislators are mandated to do what their voters want. They may commit political suicide or choose to retire when they are confronted by wing nut voters, but they are not impartial statemen.

Wing nuts vote consistently, they believe in the process more than cynical people who just say their legislature sucks and don't vote. You get what you vote for and what you don't vote against.

The representative were not 'bought off by the NRA.' They listened to their benighted citizenry. We all call up our represetatives and give them hell when they don't do what we want, or we vote them out. Same thing in red states.

The fact is that voting one's conscience is not what they are chiefly up there to do. We have a lot of people in this country that we may consider stupid, immoral and worthless human beings. But they are mobilized and they have convinced these guys to do this.

Look at their districts. They did exactly what the folks put them in office to do. We can sit in a blue district and look down on them. Those representatives reflect their state's values as shown by being elected. Nothing inconsistent.

It's not corruption. It's democracy, as ugly as it is sometimes. And it has been ugly with Tea Party people voting in people to do their bidding. No use getting mad at these guys; the NRA, the RNC, Rush, Beck and the rest did this.

For several reasons, we have trouble connecting with these people. That is why the Democratic Party is falling to the right, not just because of the GOP or being weak. We have not listened and found solutions to THEIR problems An example would be property taxes. I could make a thread on this, but I probably won't. Suffice it to say that the Democratic donkey is mostly an urban animal that is not that into these folks.

Sooooooooooo, if you vote NO to the contempt charge against Holder, they will be coming after you. Isn't that like . . . extortion or something? Blackmail? That does not sound legal at all.

Publicizing public votes on public events is NOT extortion anymore than the ACLU keeping score would be.

Talking about implying retribution for your vote.

Sure, it's the NRA but in principle I wouldn't want anything less for a healthy, representative government.

and corruption being used to affect an election and it is MORE than just simple corruption. THE FUCKING CORRUPTION IS EVERYWHERE
and people are LOST in it.

REASON THAT OUT....IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. UNTIL YOU SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES. UNTIL THEN, YOU ARE GRABBING AT SLITHERING SNAKES.

AND I SEE SNAKES EVERYWHERE, AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE.



THE FUCKING CORRUPTION=TREASON
One American has died directly because of this, how many Mexicans? How many are not DEAD YET?


POLITICAL CORRUPTION...






Meanwhile....The progresssion continues....

If you represent a district with a large percentage of gun owners and NRA members, then you probably want a good NRA rating. First, of course, because you want to be re-elected someday, and second, because you were elected to represent those voters. That's representative democracy, not corruption.

If you accept money or jobs for you and your staff from pharmaceutical companies as a payoff for voting that Medicare should not be allowed to negotiate drug prices, THAT's corruption.

Holding Holder in contempt does nothing at all one way or another with regard to anyone's second-amendment rights.

This is blatantly the NRA telling Democratic congresspeople to toe the Republican line, on something completely irrelevant to anything other than the partisan interests of the organization. If they don't they get labeled as "gun grabbers," or part of the "brady bunch" or any of the other derogatory terms so popular with this group.

In other words, the NRA is stating that unless the congressperson sides with the party the NRA favors, the NRA will launch a campaign of deceit against them.

I don't know if I would call it "purchase" more like hold hostage.

you would think some progressive groups would figure it out and wield political power like that.

worse, they have a lot more power than you are willing to admit.

that the NRA is so powerful? It is all about personalities? OK,

Guns are worshiped by many people, including some DU-ers.

Faith & irrational fear, unfortunately, usually trump logic & reason.

if you want to win elections then you need to come to grips with that fact. If you sacrificial purity tests that leave Dems out of power for decades then carry on.

Pure and simple.

so why not make gun owners more welcome and neutralize the NRA? Call every gun owner a right wing NRA lover and pretty soon you will convince them that you are right. Why can't the Democratic party be the pro-2A party?

But you knew that already, didn't you?

what do I have to believe to be a good Democratic gun owner? What specific laws or policies do I have to support?

A good start would be to quit making posts that imply that more guns = less crime.

Which you do repeatedly, and get called on repeatedly, and deny doing. Over, and over, and over, and over, and over....

Those are things that I usually see only from repigs.

I have told you several times - the only thing we can say with certainty is that more guns did not cause more gun violence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=44667

Instead, the NRA and such will enable another 100 million guns to infiltrate our society over next decade. Sooner or latter we gotta bite the bullet and do something.

Pandora's box has already been opened. No way to shut it now.

without so many lethal weapons available.

alcohol. Or cigarettes.

What you want is impossible. It will never happen.

I love the "logic" of gun religionists!

"People don't obey gun laws so why have 'em!?" (speeding laws aren't dropped because everybody breaks them)

"We'll never ban cigs or drinking so why do it with guns??" (we haven't cured cancer yet, so why treat new cases?)


It is literally ULTRA-HILARIOUS to read the spin and Bizarro World "logic" that gun-religionists carry around in their brains.

the issue is dead. Here we are in a presidential election where gun control is never mentioned - doesn't that tell you something? That is why it is impossible - no one cares except those last few diehards like yourself.

What is ULTRA-HILARIOUS is watching people like you try to convince the world that you are still relevant. Now that is funny.

And I have pointed out = repeatedly = your lack of knowledge of basic statistics. Your gun-religion & faith have removed clear thinking from your brain!!!!!

I'll say it again - and type it slowly so you understand it - there could easily be other factors that lowered crime rates even lower than they are now, and guns brought them up from that level to today's rate.

I have told you this OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER, yet you keep LYING about it. STOP LYING!!!!!!

all that matters is that there are fewer gun deaths every year and you have never been safer. That is why you are one the losing side of history - your manufactured hysteria and outrage convinces nobody except a handful of die-hard gun grabbers. Gun control is a dead issue - the public has moved on.

We might very well be a lot safer without guns, as I've proven. You have proven nothing - except your ability to move goal posts constantly, that you don't understand statistics, that you repeat proven lies, and that you worship guns.

you said:



Now the true measure of gun violence is number of people shot, wounded and killed. Those are hard numbers. In every case those numbers are lower now than they were 30 years ago - lower by about 40%. So how can guns have raised the level of gun violence when the only true measurement of gun violence shows lower absolute numbers and rates across the board?

Fewer people shot, fewer people killed. Explain to me how that raises gun violence rates.

The gun militancy movement is overwhelmingly right-wing, and you don't have to go to the NRA's site to confirm that---the DU Gungeon provides plenty of daily evidence. If you believe that the Obama administration poses any current or future threat to your ownership of guns, then you've moved from being a gun owner to being a gun militant.

to many here any support of guns in any fashion is proof of RW beliefs.

how can Democratic voters be so swayed by the NRA that their congressmen will vote against Holder?

This is about utter CT bullshit being blown out of proportion by the NRA and its cohorts. If any 9/11 Truth group had had the political power to force Congresspeople to vote for its baloney, it would be just as objectionable.

If the NRA were only about promoting responsible gun ownership, it would be one thing. I believe responsible gun owners recognize the need for common-sense gun regulations. But that's not what's going on here. It's rank woo ruling the day over at LaPierre's joint, and it stinks to high heaven.

it is about guns for many here. There is a constant effort to conflate gun ownership with NRA support and to portray gun ownership as a RW phenomenon.

And they are not conflatable with "Reagan Democrats." That's my personal take on it.

But how people can look at the out-of-control amount of guns flowing across our border to arm the drug cartels (not talking Fast and Furious, which was just a drop in the ocean current) and not recognize that we could use some serious and respectful gun control measures there is just astounding to me.

If people want to misrepresent your position here, there's nothing much you can do except state it again and again. There is a middle ground in the struggle over gun ownership in America, and it's up to all of us to keep that option open.

we have achieved historically low levels of gun violence in America while liberalizing our gun laws yet because Mexico can't control their drug cartels, we have to take a step backwards? Don't think so.

The cartels are widely armed with military-grade arms that aren't available from civilian U.S. gun shops.

We need to end the War on Drugs that fuels the violence, not curtail the liberty of more people who have little to do with it.

And there's nothing I've seen suggested to help cut that number down that would curtail the liberty of any responsible gun owner in the United States.

I have no problem with legislation passed by Congress - it at least open to public opinion and influence. I disagree with regulations implemented by executive fiat. And that applies to every civil liberty, not just guns.

You know as well as I do executive regulations are indeed open to public opinion and influence. Congress itself acts as a check on executive power.

I want it to be harder and take longer. History tells us that once government assumes a power it never gives it back.

across the Mexican border from America?

not this particular instance.

Government is always able to find that one innocuous justification that seems reasonable. The question is what reasonable limits are there that prevent them from then implement more odious regulations. Hence the need to ensure the process is slow and deliberate.

There is no need for urgency in regards to Mexico. Mexico's drug wars are fed by much larger dynamics than guns from America. Theft, corruption and desertion in the army, for example, is how the cartels get their serious firepower. Besides the better solution is to legalize drugs, end the war on drugs and treat it as a public health problem. Win-win for both countries.

that can pass the three criteria of strict scrutiny. Certainly not through executive fiat.

I don't see the Democratic Party trying to take away my Smith & Wessons. But anybody who tries will be in a world of hurt.

And, by the way, I'm a law abiding Democrat.

Bake

Stop worshiping guns. If you don't want to be viewed as a crypto-fascist RW nutcase, stop promoting nutty, fascist RW policies. If you don't want your views conflated with the NRA, stop supporting their causes.

Is a valid, business-as-usual Congressional investigation:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014112436#post7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014112436#post8

Or towing the GOP/NRA party line that having too many guns in circulation isn't a "real" problem:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014112436#post17

Or promoting the GOP/NRA LIE that this Fast & Furious bullshit is a scandal on par with Watergate:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002832644#post25

it is pure partisan politics. I certainly don't support it.

I asked you what gun policies are not RW. You said that I should not support RW gun policies - now I waiting for you to tell me what are acceptable Democratic gun policies.

you were the one who said I shouldn't be supporting RW gun policies. Why is it so hard you you to give me straight answer as to exactly what I should be supporting?

but I shit on the NRA. This group is a republican frontgroup who are going to spread lies against Democratic presidents regardless. When has Obama ever threatened anyone's right to own guns? Never, but the NRA still hates him and spreads lies regardless.
That's another reason I wouldn't join that craphole association.

And it's not just logic and reason that are trumped by fear, but also empathy and compassion.

It's hard for some here to grasp, but these are areas in the country where a substantial portion of the population agrees with the NRA. If you accept the premise that a congressman's vote should largely reflect his constituency's views,...

Arms Corporations have a lot of lobbying money.