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Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 11:39 AM Jan 2017

It's the urban-rural split.



In 2008, Obama set a record: the lowest percentage of counties in the USA won by a winning presidential candidate (28%). And that was in a fairly landslidy year.

In 2012, he smashed that record: 78% of US counties voted for Mitt Romney, but Obama still won both the electoral college and the popular vote convincingly.

In 2016, Clinton lost the electoral college, but won the popular vote by several millions. She won just 17% or so of America's counties; the other 83% or so went to Trump. On the other hand, the average Clinton county had about 135k people in it, whereas the average Trump county only had about 23k.


If you look at a county-by-county map or an American election, it's invariably a see of red, with the occasional tiny spec of blue which just happen to be where most of the people live. If you look at a cartogram, with the counties scaled by population, you see something like a mangrove swamp, with swollen islands of blue separated by shrunken rivers of red of approximately equal area.


When Republicans talk about "urban" voters, I used to assume that that was just a dog whistle. I still think there's probably a large element of that, but I also think that to some extent they probably are genuinely talking about urban voters.


I think that the clearest way to define a cultural split in America is not red-state vs blue-state but rural vs urban. There are some conservative cities and some liberal or at least Democratic rural areas, but overall the cultural split is spectacular and widening.


The Democrats have problems with white voters, richer voters, male voters and less educated voters. But above all, I think they have a problem with rural voters (the GOP, by contrast, have a problem with urban voters, thankfully).


People have talked about racism, and about economic anxiety, and about anti-establishment feeling, but for my money the biggest factor in Trump's victory was that, even though he lives in a city, he managed to present himself to rural voters as one of their own, whereas Clinton came across as urban (since when was "metropolitan" a pejorative?) to her finger tips.


If you've watched the first of the Hunger Hames films, consider how the idyllic rural community at the start is portrayed and how the evil decadent city is portrayed. That really is how a lot of rural voters see it, I think.


The most important property I'd like to see in a future Democratic candidate is a background, and in particular a manner, calculated to appeal to rural voters. And I'd like to see their speech writers take a bunch of confetti with words like "rural" and "heartland" written on it, and scatter it over each of their speeches.
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
It's the urban-rural split. (Original Post) Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2017 OP
I live in rural America. SamKnause Jan 2017 #1
I grew up in rural America. CrispyQ Jan 2017 #5
You are right. SamKnause Jan 2017 #6
90% wrong. How can you look around and not realize Hortensis Jan 2017 #17
Hyperpartisans are destroying this country. Rex Jan 2017 #18
Hate radio is what trained them to be knee jerk. -nt CrispyQ Jan 2017 #19
Yes. And we MUST recognize that in order to combat it. Hortensis Jan 2017 #21
I don't blame the dems for the right's destructive actions. CrispyQ Jan 2017 #23
Well, agree we need to be more clever, certainly, in opposing Hortensis Jan 2017 #25
"...to copy their tactics would require becoming like them." CrispyQ Jan 2017 #43
In hindsight we would all have liked to see more of that. Hortensis Jan 2017 #44
rush has a couple million listeners, OReily has less than that. there were 150 frankieallen Jan 2017 #27
As long as the democrats are painted as being for gun control hollowdweller Jan 2017 #2
The white evangelical vote gap is even worse. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #3
We as a party keep pushing the rural vote away again and again. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #4
Republican policies will only make things economically worse for rural dwellers. dawg Jan 2017 #7
Oh, I know the Republican policies are going to screw them. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #9
This: "I think it is a political loser for us to talk about gun restrictions." CrispyQ Jan 2017 #13
Yup. Your post is spot on. I see the exact same thing in Maine. RBInMaine Jan 2017 #28
It would seem that the suburbs are the crucial swing municipalities FarCenter Jan 2017 #8
Been that way for a long time. MindPilot Jan 2017 #10
The "rural/urban" thing has been going on for many thousands of years BumRushDaShow Jan 2017 #11
I disagree. Modern hate radio and television is a new thing. hunter Jan 2017 #22
I'm not arguing that the role of the media was not at fault BumRushDaShow Jan 2017 #24
Nice post! Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #29
The most dangerous Trump supporters are affluent straight white men... hunter Jan 2017 #12
Well, I'd hope they do more than give lip service to rural (scattering of terms and mannerisms) n/t X_Digger Jan 2017 #14
I think they already were. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2017 #15
I saw it in the early '90s. Democrats left rural voters behind in Virginia. X_Digger Jan 2017 #16
When Democrats have addressed their concerns, it's often with few details. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #26
racism was why he was able to present himself to them as one of their own JI7 Jan 2017 #20
It was mainly economic frustration, not racism, that swung it to Trump. PERIOD! RBInMaine Jan 2017 #30
no, it was racism since they voted against democrats who opposed trade and supported JI7 Jan 2017 #31
Economics fuels that. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #32
it's still racism JI7 Jan 2017 #33
They are not all racists - it's way too simplistic. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #34
the think it's acceptable and presidential JI7 Jan 2017 #35
I wrote about it elsewhere, it was a Hail Mary pass of desperation by poor rural people. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #36
When the now-"President" included the following in his "economic" rhetoric - BumRushDaShow Jan 2017 #40
The REAL underlying story is the massive imbalance in representation Stinky The Clown Jan 2017 #37
I agree but we can't fix that until we put Democrats back in control. yardwork Jan 2017 #39
Funny you mention that! Stinky The Clown Jan 2017 #41
Recced it! Thank you. yardwork Jan 2017 #42
Democrats must take back the rural counties. yardwork Jan 2017 #38

SamKnause

(13,082 posts)
1. I live in rural America.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 11:48 AM
Jan 2017

I support a progressive socialist government.

So do my friends in rural America.

So does my niece who lives in rural America.

If you listen to Fox 'news' or talk radio it fries your brain whether you live

in the city or rural America.

Fox 'news', Rush Limbaugh, and hate radio was concocted to do exactly what it has done.

Spread lies and destroy democracy in this country.

CrispyQ

(36,411 posts)
5. I grew up in rural America.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 12:45 PM
Jan 2017

Been a city slicker now, for over 40 years. One of the key differences I've noted is that city people don't listen to AM radio nearly as much as rural people do. On the farm, we had AM radio on all the time, for weather reports, market updates, equipment auctions, all sorts of things that are geared to rural living. The right wing was smart to buy up all the radio stations & put Limbaugh on. Then they got him on the military & university channels, too. All the while, the democrats were running as fast as they could from the word liberal, because a two bit actor poked fun at it. Even now, they do nothing about hate radio. I'm not sure they even factor it into the current election losses. The dems are complicit in this takeover of our country. They have not been a true opposition party for a very long time.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. 90% wrong. How can you look around and not realize
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 05:19 PM
Jan 2017

that the right has been trained to knee-jerk reject ANYTHING the Democrats support? THINK--AND STOP PARROTING FAR-LEFT AND RIGHT-WING PROPAGANDA.

Voices like Limbaugh only need to say "Democrats are against cannibalism" for these trained attack dogs to realize that something about the Democrats' position must be (of course) evil and/or stupid and supportive of cannibalism. Therefore they know they are to oppose the Democrat position on cannibalism. They need know no more.

As for the rest that should be incredibly obvious, despite the propaganda:

1. National politics is no longer local. Rural conservatives tune in to the same Fox TV and the same radio and on-line Infowars as urban ones.
2. Conservatives are increasingly separating out and moving to more conservative areas.
3. The electoral college makes low-population-state votes count up to 3X high-population states.
4. Intensive voter suppression took place in many red states.

It wasn't that our candidates didn't speak to ALL working Americans at all levels, they DID!.

IT IS THAT MOST CONSERVATIVES DID NOT WANT ANYTHING THEY ASKED FOR TO COME FROM DEMOCRATS. They voted against not only their own interests, but their children's and grandchildren's, out of a despicable hyperpartisan hostility against Democrats/liberals that threatens to destroy our republic. As our founders foresaw nearly 250 years ago and worried about greatly.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
21. Yes. And we MUST recognize that in order to combat it.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 05:34 PM
Jan 2017
They have been trained to be the worst political versions of themselves. Not us.

These VERY pervasive attempts, coming from both the right AND the far left, and Russia, to turn us on ourselves and blame ourselves for the right's destructive actions must be rejected for what they are. The truth can be tremendously empowering, but first we have to understand what it is.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


Leaders haven't been studying General Sun for over 1700 years because he was wrong.

CrispyQ

(36,411 posts)
23. I don't blame the dems for the right's destructive actions.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 06:24 PM
Jan 2017

I blame the dems for not standing up to them. I blame them for playing nice, or by the rules, or going high while they go low, or bringing a knife to a gun fight. The dems stopped being a true opposition party 35 years ago.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Well, agree we need to be more clever, certainly, in opposing
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 06:10 AM
Jan 2017

Last edited Sun Jan 22, 2017, 06:48 AM - Edit history (1)

those who abandon all decency and principles in order to win, but to copy their tactics would require becoming like them.

Not that we could. We don't just lack the right's fear and intolerance to be whipped up into a frenzy, we lack the eagerness of large numbers to be harnessed into a force: The right's characteristic attraction to even obviously bad authoritarian leaders that we are seeing demonstrated so devastatingly right now. Authoritarians have, psychologists have discovered, a willingness to literally give over their consciences to those leaders and "just follow orders," at least until they've finally had...too much of what they thought they wanted. These are sources of their strength, but they are also huge, repellent, destructive weaknesses.

We're at a low point, sure, thanks to many anti-democracy factors. But America wasn't created by the silly limp weenies the hard-core right enjoys imagining us to be, you know. Obama and Hillary didn't treat the transition with respect out of weakness but out of strength based on strong principles.

Deluded conservatives, and sadly their authoritarian-leaning cousins on the far left, misunderstand the power of Americans who truly believe in equality of all and in government of, by and for all. But in the end, those who do not have nothing to offer to compare to that. And don't forget, most voters chose the principles for which we, at least, stand and rejected trumpism.

CrispyQ

(36,411 posts)
43. "...to copy their tactics would require becoming like them."
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 01:04 PM
Jan 2017

Okay. But they now control two branches of the federal government, 33 state legislatures & they get a SCOTUS nom right out of the gate. They pretty much have their boot on our neck, but I'm so glad the Democratic Party went high.

I've been searching for the paragraph that states it so perfectly & I should have known it would be from The Rude Pundit

Americans like their world Manichean. They like to pick heroes and villains. They want to know which team to root for. They don't like gray areas. They don't want to point out that both teams played a good game. Obama believed that Americans were smarter and better than they actually are, even as every election except his in 2012 proved that they aren't. This was Obama's fatal flaw: the belief in the better angels of our nature, a phrase he used several times throughout his presidency. We don't have better angels, Mr. President. There are no angels. There are only humans, and, god, we are fucked up.

Because of that belief, Obama couldn't see that his 2008 election wasn't just about hope and change. It was about destroying an old order. I've said this many times in the last eight years, and I'll say it again: Obama's greatest failure was in not taking out our domestic enemies right after he was elected. The Justice Department should have gone after the torture-approving members of the Bush administration and the bankers and financial con men who dicked over the economy. The message would have been loud and clear: there is some shit we won't eat. Instead, Obama let Republicans know that working together was his priority, and those sons and daughters of bitches exploited that every chance they could, constantly saying that because Obama wouldn't give in to their every whim, he was the one refusing compromise, undermining and outright lying about what he was doing.



It is exactly this go-along-to-get-along attitude that got us where we are. The dems don't have to sink to the repubs level, but in a fight, sometimes you have to get in the dirt & risk some blood.

there is some shit we won't eat.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
44. In hindsight we would all have liked to see more of that.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 02:29 PM
Jan 2017

But Rude Pundit's sounding more than a little Trumpish here. Those people he wanted Obama to "go after" are mostly white and very wealthy and are hugely powerful, some individually but all as part of larger groups that can make and break whole governments.

I can look into the past and promise everyone what would have happened "if only" also. Rude Pundit has no corner on blowing hot air from an armchair. So here we go if he'd been directing Obama:

Obama's target groups, mostly conservative and already ranged against him, would have fought back with all the power those who control over 80% of the wealth and property of this nation could muster.

A black-on-white race war run from the White House and bent on destroying American values and even Christianity itself is how the swiftboat machine aided by the national media profiting tremendously from all the flack would have portrayed it.

It would have provided the huge fuel for righteous rage so many on the right longed for but Obama's cool intellectual decency and the Democrats' genuine focus on their wellbeing left them scrabbling to accumulate. And the many enormous controversies would have caused deep rejection of Obama on the left.

In the end, as media portrayed Obama as a scary angry black man behind that cool mask, most decent Americans as usual would have had no idea what to think. Convinced there was no goodness in either party, most would have retreated from their initial hope into disheartened disillusionment, and the Democratic Party would have genuinely been in the broken disarray right wing and far left media so dishonestly enjoy portraying.

End of explanation of what would really have happened. Given the choice between respecting Obama's strategy and Rude Pundit's, I'd go with Obama's every time.

Everyone agrees that we have to adopt smarter, more aggressive strategies against ruthless enemies, starting years in advance -- in an environment where fewer people can win elections against the will of the majority and where The Rough Beast and our enemies abroad are already successfully using modern communications as a harness on the brains of those fewer people.

Itm, I'll make another prediction--into the future this time. Although WE are The Rough Beast's worst enemy, it itself is close behind because of their tremendous lack of suitability to leadership of a great nation. They can't help misusing power, they couldn't competently serve the people even if they wanted to, and they will turn on each other.

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
27. rush has a couple million listeners, OReily has less than that. there were 150
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 07:48 AM
Jan 2017

million votes cast in this election. You can't really blame right wing media completely, there has to be much more to it.

 

hollowdweller

(4,229 posts)
2. As long as the democrats are painted as being for gun control
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 11:50 AM
Jan 2017

We will lose rural areas. #1 reason my entire state is republican now and used to be nearly 100% democrat.

#2 Dems have failed to protect union workers, both from outsourcing and from having to face concessions. When unions were strong, and they meant the difference between earning a living wage you could be middle class on and not, everybody voted dem.

You hear a lot of stereotyping from dems on here of rural folks. That is for the very reason you highlight, they don't really know many rural folks. That is the same reason Trump wins these areas because he can stereotype blacks, gay people, people who live in the city and most of those rural folks do not have any exposure to many minorities.

Trumps whole "carnage" thing? That's how a lot of rural people see the urban areas. They haven't been there so they think maybe they were like they were in the 70s, instead of all gentrified.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
3. The white evangelical vote gap is even worse.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 12:10 PM
Jan 2017

Without them, Hillary would have won the majority of the white vote too.

They might be a partial explanation for the urban-rural divide since I think most of them live in rural areas.

The concentration of Democratic voters in densely populated areas doesn't help matters given the electoral set-up.

Nationwide, Democratic senate candidates beat Republican candidates by over 6 million votes... for just 34 elections! Much like the Presidential election, Democrats achieved that wide vote gap by big wins in highly-populated areas and losses in less-populated areas of the country.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
4. We as a party keep pushing the rural vote away again and again.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 12:22 PM
Jan 2017

I live in a rural town (Connecticut has no county Government, just 169 towns and cities). I chose to live out here, as I'm a "nature lover", and a blue collar town with modest post-WWII housing developments scattered in nothing but forest was an ideal affordable place to live. I work in a more urban area, so every day is a culture shift. There are issues in which we as a party have to do better if we are ever to get these places to back us.

Take guns - rural people want absolutely nothing to do with gun control that results in them not being able to own guns. People out here are far away from police services, if they even have them. Many towns use resident state troopers and a few constables. But crime is relatively low. What keeps many wanting a gun is that we have to contend with occasional hostile coy-wolves and bobcats. Several times in the last year people have defended domestic animals with guns. Calling 911 just gives you a shoulder to cry on as you look over the remains of your chicken coop. That doesn't mean abandoning criticism of dumbfuckery, like leaving guns around children. But if your intent to get all of the guns out of a community, then these places will always oppose us.

The other big issue is economics, and this was what killed us in many towns that had voted for Obama but went to Tiny Hands this time around. My town voted for Democratic control at local and state levels, as well as Congress, but broke from that this time to vote for Il Douche. The economy has recovered, but it significantly passed over the rural areas. Businesses are still closing and pay is stagnating, which coupled with our highly technological society is making people left behind really feel frustrated. As schools switch to more high tech tools, like smart boards, the property taxes increase as there isn't enough business to sustain the cost and people fall backwards day after day. I'm lucky in that I have a 6 figure salary engineering job and commute just 25 minutes. But I can see that my neighbors are hurting and nothing seems to get better for them. I'm angry at their vote, but I can understand the despair that drove them to do it.

dawg

(10,620 posts)
7. Republican policies will only make things economically worse for rural dwellers.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 12:56 PM
Jan 2017

Four years from now, they'll know they aren't better off.

On the other hand, you're probably right about the guns. As terrible as gun violence is in this country, I think it is a political loser for us to talk about gun restrictions.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
9. Oh, I know the Republican policies are going to screw them.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:20 PM
Jan 2017

They don't realize that yet, but they will. Their vote was a Hail Mary pass of desperation, only they don't realize the catcher has no arms and is walking into a Punji pit.

CrispyQ

(36,411 posts)
13. This: "I think it is a political loser for us to talk about gun restrictions."
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:55 PM
Jan 2017

I want gun control laws, too, but there are so many guns out there, I believe that if someone really wants one, they'll easily find a way to get one. Or multiple guns. I reminded a Trump supporting cousin that Obama & the dems never took his guns away, like he feared they would.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
28. Yup. Your post is spot on. I see the exact same thing in Maine.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:07 AM
Jan 2017

In rural Maine mills have closed, people have moved away, stores are shuttered, property taxes are high, they love their guns for hunting and protection,.... and Dems have done a SHITTY job speaking to rural economic anxiety, and failed gun control referendums in the last two election cycles have killed us. I have said these things over, and over, and over again in local and county Dem party meetings and have, since the election this year, RAILED on these exact points to our state party leaders. It needs to change NOW.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
8. It would seem that the suburbs are the crucial swing municipalities
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:02 PM
Jan 2017

While most municipalities are solidly red or blue, there are some swing municipalities and they are spread around, mostly in suburban counties.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
10. Been that way for a long time.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:35 PM
Jan 2017

There is this long-standing cultural meme that country folk are more moral, hard-working, honest, religious, trustworthy--in short just plain better people--than us city dwellers.

Recall when Dan Quayle equated "rural America" with "real America"? That is deep in our cultural narrative.

BumRushDaShow

(128,289 posts)
11. The "rural/urban" thing has been going on for many thousands of years
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:47 PM
Jan 2017

Human societies have always aggregated into those living/working in rural areas for agriculture and food production, and those who gathered in urban areas for trade.

IMHO, to make it seem like this is some sort of aberration going on here in the U.S., is doing a disservice to anthropological history, and delays finding the means to address it in a modern sense.

There is no "one size fits all".

hunter

(38,300 posts)
22. I disagree. Modern hate radio and television is a new thing.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 06:00 PM
Jan 2017

A Fox News watching pig farmer, the owner of a multi-million dollar operation, has nothing in common with any pre-industrial agricultural community. This modern "rural" guy is keeping track of pork and feed prices on the internet, harassing his government representatives to repeal environmental rules, and hiring undocumented workers for less than living wages.

He's not the guy who's herding a half dozen pigs to the town market hoping he'll be getting a good price, maybe enough that he can buy a few sewing needles, a bobbin of thread, and a bit of cloth for his wife.

Likewise, the dumb fuck who's "rolling coal" in his jacked up pickup truck has nothing in common with preindustrial rural people.

Modern "rural people" are a mass-media manufactured class.

BumRushDaShow

(128,289 posts)
24. I'm not arguing that the role of the media was not at fault
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 06:57 PM
Jan 2017

In fact I have posted several times, most recently in this subthread, about the pervasive proliferation of RW talk radio, its impact, and how liberals/progressives need to get on that bandwagon in a big way.

But there are certain "cultural" (or perhaps a better term might be "regional&quot practices that have evolved in rural areas and in urban areas, that are distinct from one another.

For example, it is known that when growing up on dairy farms, families pick up the gut bacteria needed to more easily handle raw/unpasteurized milk, whereas those not similarly exposed end up with digestive issues and worse. And this results in a battle between the farmer and the federal government regarding milk pasteurization before mass distribution - and that causes the sparks to fly. The message then becomes - "government bad".

Another example - and one that is a tragedy going on right now - often when you live in areas where the houses are many acres (perhaps hundreds) apart, your water most likely comes out of a well. Yet in urban areas, there is some municipal water supply that pumps water to areas within the municipality after treatment (hopefully). Assuming the rural dweller doesn't have fracking nearby, the ground water is generally clean and perhaps needs some filtering for sediment and occasionally softening. However the city water needs much more given that the water is most likely coming from a (polluted) river and may be pumped through old lead-soldered pipes. So drinking water standards were put in place (which costs money), and this was done to at least try to assure urban dwellers that the water is closer in quality to those in (clean) rural areas. But standards like this were often applied everywhere (urban and rural), and the balking against that began...

You can take issue after issue (I know "guns" were mentioned here) and for some issues, there is not only a total disconnect between rural and urban, but it has devolved into shouting matches because what works one place does not work in another... IMHO one can't throw the whole discussion out because of that. There needs to be some type of adaptability.

I.e., each "region" and living circumstance has "special needs" and IMHO, there should be discussions about what those needs and circumstances are. Some might argue that this leads to a "patchwork" of regulations. Perhaps it does... but then if grouped properly and termed differently, the "patchwork regulations" become "agile (adaptable) regulations", created to tailor to several broad (but similar) categories vs "everyone".

hunter

(38,300 posts)
12. The most dangerous Trump supporters are affluent straight white men...
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:49 PM
Jan 2017

... many of them dressed up as evangelicals who are under the skin pure grifter. The churches are where they find they're marks.

That's where the right wing hate radio comes from, that's where other right wing media comes from. These white men are the ones who are leaning on the preachers, they're the ones watching how they're wives vote, they are the ones who are absolutely terrified of losing their white privilege; terrified that others will treat the as they have treated others.

These guys own the Republican party and they are very skilled at propaganda and electoral dirty tricks.

The Democratic Party ought to be the party of everyone else.

If this means that some Democratic representatives are going to be pickup truck driving, hog hunting, churchgoing, white guys, who speak of traditional family values and actually live those values, then that's okay. I also think our party could field some women politicians who can speak directly to the concerns of rural women and well represent them.

My own politics are far to the left of the Democratic Party, and my environmental views radical. I've an intense dislike of guns. I will never be able to vote for a candidate who fully represents my views. Nevertheless, I was an enthusiastic supporter of Obama and Clinton.

It's also possible that all this conversation about "rural voters" is manufactured by Republican media that seeks to divide us.

The stereotypical rural voter is an increasingly rare breed.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
15. I think they already were.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 02:47 PM
Jan 2017

I think it's clear that most rural communities would, on average (coal mining areas are a notable exception) have been much better off under Clinton than under Trump.

I think that what the Democrats need to work on radically revising before the next election is style, not substance - they have reasonable policies, but they need to sell them very differently.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
16. I saw it in the early '90s. Democrats left rural voters behind in Virginia.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 05:09 PM
Jan 2017

They were touting navy ship building yards in the tidewater region, and screwing over the UMWA workers in coal country.

I've heard the same thing in rust belt states-- that Dems looked at unions and blue-collar workers like something to be scraped off their shoes while talking up urban redevelopment and economic opportunities.

*shrug*

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
26. When Democrats have addressed their concerns, it's often with few details.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 07:13 AM
Jan 2017

It's like, "We will replace those jobs with green energy jobs!"



Are people supposed to believe that? I sure don't.

How's that going to come about? Are a bunch of solar panel manufacturers going to move into an area full of people with insufficient education to carry out much of that work? Are private businesses in those fields going to hire a bunch of people over age 40 to "start over" in that line of work, even if they recently completed coursework to help them do it? I doubt it, and I think they doubt it too!

Proposing FDR-like work projects with government oversight would be more believable, but I think too many neoliberals don't want to break away from their faith in free markets.

JI7

(89,235 posts)
31. no, it was racism since they voted against democrats who opposed trade and supported
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:11 AM
Jan 2017

republicans who were pro trade.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
32. Economics fuels that.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 11:03 AM
Jan 2017

Republicans keep fiiling their ears with "if you vote for us, prosperity will happen. We'll lower your taxes giving you more money in your pocket. We'll make businesses bounce back and hire you". You and I know it's bullshit, but they don't.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
36. I wrote about it elsewhere, it was a Hail Mary pass of desperation by poor rural people.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 11:21 AM
Jan 2017

The Christian fundies OTOH just wanted a strong authoritarian leader.

BumRushDaShow

(128,289 posts)
40. When the now-"President" included the following in his "economic" rhetoric -
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 12:22 PM
Jan 2017
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/


"I just left Pennsylvania, I just left Ohio. I'm going to be very soon in Michigan. Upstate New York is a disaster. You look at these big, beautiful plants that are just rotting. They're just rotting. I flew into Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, yesterday. And I looked down and I looked at ... it looked like a war zone where you have these massive plants, and you could see 25 years ago vibrance, families being taken care of, work, education, health care, people working. It's all in Mexico now,” he said Tuesday while at a rally in Virginia.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/elections/mc-pa-trump-harrisburg-war-zone-20160802-story.html


“We have a situation where we have our inner cities — African-Americans, Hispanics are living in hell because it’s so dangerous,” Trump said during a question about how to heal America’s racial divide. “You walk down the street, you get shot. In Chicago, they’ve had thousands of shootings, thousands since Jan. 1. Thousands of shootings. And I say, where is this? Is this is a war-torn country? What are we doing?”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/trump-injects-chicago-crime-into-debate-a-war-torn-country/


You have ceased with Lee Atwater's strategy of "code talk" and have now gone overt, because you can when you are in charge, and you have guilt-tripped Democrats into cowering at the term "racism".

Stinky The Clown

(67,756 posts)
37. The REAL underlying story is the massive imbalance in representation
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 12:04 PM
Jan 2017

Lots of conservative areas with low populations having their own representative. Far few liberal areas with many more citizens per congressional seat.

yardwork

(61,531 posts)
38. Democrats must take back the rural counties.
Sun Jan 22, 2017, 12:08 PM
Jan 2017

Disinformation among rural voters is appalling. The white evangelical churches are a big part of the problem. Rural voters believe incredible things. They are almost literally flat earthers. Their belief system is worse than medieval - it's like the dark ages.

I grew up there. I see their FB posts. We have a big problem.

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