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Wed Jan 11, 2017, 12:01 PM

The NY Times "goes there" ..... Treason

Hacking & leaking of Democratic emails was carried out "with the full knowledge & support of Trump"

The memos describe several purported meetings during the 2016 presidential campaign between Trump representatives and Russian officials to discuss matters of mutual interest, including the Russian hacking of the Democratic National Committee and Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman, John D. Podesta.

If some of the unproven claims in the memos are merely titillating, others would amount to extremely serious, potentially treasonous acts.

One of the opposition research memos quotes an unidentified Russian source as claiming that the hacking and leaking of Democratic emails was carried out “with the full knowledge and support of TRUMP and senior members of his campaign team.” In return, the memo said, “the TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue” because Mr. Putin “needed to cauterize the subject.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-intelligence.html

64 replies, 13420 views

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply The NY Times "goes there" ..... Treason (Original post)
Botany Jan 11 OP
Zoonart Jan 11 #1
KittyWampus Jan 11 #3
Dustlawyer Jan 11 #25
niyad Jan 11 #54
KittyWampus Jan 11 #2
Wounded Bear Jan 11 #11
Mr. Evil Jan 11 #32
Rural_Progressive Jan 11 #15
brutus smith Jan 11 #33
Jacob Boehme Jan 11 #42
vlyons Jan 12 #57
Rural_Progressive Jan 12 #63
vlyons Jan 12 #64
JustAnotherGen Jan 11 #21
RiverStone Jan 11 #36
TygrBright Jan 11 #4
Chakaconcarne Jan 11 #5
Merlot Jan 11 #7
Sadie5 Jan 11 #39
not fooled Jan 11 #51
Fast Walker 52 Jan 11 #6
bettyellen Jan 11 #8
Botany Jan 11 #9
bettyellen Jan 11 #10
Botany Jan 11 #14
Plucketeer Jan 11 #37
mobeau69 Jan 11 #18
bettyellen Jan 11 #20
elmac Jan 11 #12
Botany Jan 11 #16
not fooled Jan 11 #52
stonecutter357 Jan 11 #13
Roy Rolling Jan 11 #17
BSdetect Jan 11 #35
longship Jan 11 #19
Nictuku Jan 11 #47
longship Jan 11 #48
Nictuku Jan 11 #49
world wide wally Jan 12 #59
longship Jan 12 #60
hibbing Jan 11 #22
LanternWaste Jan 11 #26
hibbing Jan 11 #29
catbyte Jan 11 #23
Pachamama Jan 11 #24
Mountain Mule Jan 11 #27
classof56 Jan 11 #30
Botany Jan 11 #31
Mountain Mule Jan 11 #40
not fooled Jan 11 #53
UCmeNdc Jan 11 #28
BSdetect Jan 11 #34
Demit Jan 11 #38
zentrum Jan 11 #41
KGBot001 Jan 11 #43
lindysalsagal Jan 11 #44
onetexan Jan 11 #46
eggplant Jan 11 #45
WinkyDink Jan 11 #50
niyad Jan 11 #55
dlk Jan 12 #56
Mike Niendorff Jan 12 #58
ExtraGriz Jan 12 #61
frankieallen Jan 12 #62

Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 12:08 PM

1. We have a BINGO

One of the opposition research memos quotes an unidentified Russian source as claiming that the hacking and leaking of Democratic emails was carried out “with the full knowledge and support of TRUMP and senior members of his campaign team.” In return, the memo said, “the TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue” because Mr. Putin “needed to cauterize the subject.”
and sideline the issue they did. This cannot be explained away. This did happen in real time

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 12:10 PM

3. Time lines and travel schedules and credit card receipts need to be investigated.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:05 PM

25. Ther Russians could have easily provided Cohen with a fake Passport to

protect the visits with Russian agents. A shrewd man such as Cohen would know to cover his tracks for his treason!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 11:47 PM

54. according to another post on another thread, travel to the czech republic does not

require a stamp, if one has come from an EU country.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 12:09 PM

2. It's the mother-f*cking COLLUSION not the -golden showers- which is a distraction

Have your laughs and get them out of our collective system.

It's the COLLUSION.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:41 PM

11. YES!!! And the financing...

follow the money. They must own him. It's the only thing he really responds to, money.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:31 PM

32. Maybe they can get a warrant for Trump's tax returns.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:46 PM

15. Kitty, this is why Progressives don't win all the elections

Last edited Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Like it or not, and I really find it depressing, the "golden showers" are what will rally the middle of the electorate against tRump. Unfortunately a significant percentage of our electorate doesn't even know what the word "collusion" means.

We have a society that is driven by emotion not logic. Look at the ads for everything, all emotionally driven. We keep thinking that if we just give people facts and logic they will vote for candidates that embody facts and logic. It just ain't so at this point.

Can a republic survive this type of society? I don't see how but I've been wrong on many things and I truly hope I'm wrong on this. Despair is not an option but I really have to work at not giving in to it on days like today.

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:31 PM

33. So true!

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 04:37 PM

42. Absolutely right!

You said: "the "golden showers" are what will rally the middle of the electorate against tRump."

And it's this absurd, outrageous circus side-show entertainment that the rubes just can't get enough of.

But after enough guffaws and laughter from the crowd.... they'll hopefully realize finally that they were the butt of this grotesque joke all along.... and that's when they'll decide to storm the castle gates.

We are in for some very strange times.

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:38 AM

57. Despair has driven me to suicidal thoughts

although not so much in the last 2 weeks. I may lose my social security and medicare, and that worries me greatly. Lately I've been contemplating chaos as being an opportunity. Mostly, we think of chaos as being dreadful, and it is. But order always follows chaos, just as order always devolves into chaos. It's a cyclical thing. I'm hoping that the Trump presidency and the criminality of the Republican party will so over-reach, so over outrage, so over damage people in their daily lives, that finally finally, people will start to value moral integrity again.

We have lost our moral compass. Traded it in for the greedy pursuit of money at any cost. We are now reaping the results of some dreadful karma that we have caused upon ourselves. We have stopped practicing the Golden rule of treating others as we want to be treated. Not all of us of course. But enough of us to form the critical mass that has enabled this horror to descend upon us.

What else can I say? We have voted again and again to install corrupt people, easily swayed by money to govern us. There will be no Jesus to drive the money changers out of the temple. There will be no Jesus to overturn their tables. We have to do that ourselves. It is the love of money, not the money itself, but the greedy desire to acquire money that is the root of all evil. We shall not get out of this chaos unless we rectify our moral compass.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:32 PM

63. If something is not sustainable it is not just

a thought from one of my favorite spiritual compasses, Matthew Fox.

Using a system of roads as an analogy, in all things that matter our society has been driving very rapidly down a dead end road. Will there be a cul-de-sac for us to turn around in or are we going to smush our faces on one of those signs they put at the end of a road. No question we're running out of road, the only hope is we've left ourselves with enough wiggle room to head in a more sustainable direction.

Fox talks about our being in the "dark night of the soul" From your post I suspect you're familiar with the concept. Reading about it, meditating about it, really didn't prepare me to be living in it on a global scale. The only relief I've been able to find is by using different techniques to increase my emotional resiliency.

The darkness is never dispelled by more darkness. Each of us has the potential to be a spark of light, put enough of us together and we can help the world get through this storm.

Namaste



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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:53 PM

64. Thank-you and yes

It takes critical mass to effect change. From nuclear physics to politics to personal situations, it takes critical mass to generate enough energy to effect change. I advocate for each of us to clean up our own moral failings and rectify our own moral compass. Get back to consciously practicing the Golden rule of treating others as we wish to be treated. Stop chasing after money. Our elected officials are a reflection of our selves. When there is a critical mass of people, who demand moral integrity, rather than "me first," then we might have a shot at cleaning up this mess.

We live in degenerate times. Sending you a ray of sunshine and a prayer for calm abiding.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

21. Tky Kitty

I had to trash a few words this morning. I know everyone is loving the memes - but the overall actions are far more important than the potential content in the videos.

Also re receipts - I want his daughter investigated. She took a vacay out of the blue with Wendy (sp?) Deng - who I've read at DU is possibly Putin's girlfriend?

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:41 PM

36. Collusion with a hostile nation to rig an election...

Means treason!

As our entire election process has been compromised, seems like a re-do is in order? That is, after we jail the facists.

This is never happened before in US history, so a re-do election may not be as crazy as it sounds.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:04 PM

4. They said the "T" word... about effing time. n/t

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:08 PM

5. So..... I believe Russia helped more than just Trump...

I wonder if this extends into senate and congressional elections.....maybe vote purges... I dunno... BUT, if I were the GOP and Russia helped get me elected, I would want the focus to be on the buffoon in office and not the rest of us...

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:29 PM

7. The Florida rep whos campaign strategy was leaked.

She lost. There were probably more than just one democratic nominee who was targeted.

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 03:12 PM

39. It certainly does

No one person could convince me that the elections in Indiana were not fixed. Those Republicans who had no chance of winning suddenly beat their Democratic opponent by the small margin required to not contest the results.

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Response to Sadie5 (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 10:48 PM

51. Yes

Who thinks that, when billions of $$ are at stake, the 'pukes would hesitate to manipulate elections? The same applies to those few key swing states where Hillary "lost" by a few 10,000 votes.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:15 PM

6. hello... this is freaking awful and CANNOT STAND

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:30 PM

8. And he praised them at the Presser? Is this that new?

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:38 PM

9. And he did not answer the question about contacts between his campaign and the Russians

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:39 PM

10. Yes, he ended the Presser quickly at that point. He knows.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:45 PM

14. If it is proved that Trump and company worked with the Russians to rig the ....

.... elections (I think many many downticket races were efffected too) then
he has to go from office.

This election has never passed my smell test. It was a coup and we had
treason by Trump, McConnell, and Comey.

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Response to Botany (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:53 PM

37. It really boggles the mind

that this SHAM election hasn't been summarily flushed down a toilet and re-run again. How can we just sit back and allow a pussy-grabbing, daughter-lusting, lie-spewing, international shit-stirring illiterate to ascend to the highest and most critical seat of this nation?

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:56 PM

18. NBC reported that he answered it on his way out.

Supposedly they've got it on tape. Not that the answers of a pathological liar are worth a damn.

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:59 PM

20. If it was one word "no" it's meaningless.... he's expert at that BS.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:42 PM

12. sniffles was on national TV

asking the commies to hack Hill emails. He belongs in prison.

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Response to elmac (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:47 PM

16. He hangs himself with his own words.

* We don’t know if it was Russia doing the hacking. Nothing to see here move along ... nothing is here move along.

* The hacking of a major party’s computers (DNC). How did Trump know the DNC had been hacked?

* Trump called for Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s campaign and State Dept. records. Which is a crime.

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Response to Botany (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 10:50 PM

52. Note the color of the tie

That's a suspiciously pinko color there!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:43 PM

13. K&R!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:50 PM

17. The old saying

It goes something like this:

"Don't pick a fight with a newspaper, they buy their ink by the barrel".

It's their PROFESSION AND FULL-TIME JOB to dig up news that contains dirt on politicians and power-brokers, because those politicians and power-brokers are actively using their public persona to tell a different story. As good as a Trump PR machine may be, they are no New York Times. He may fool those who only WATCH the news, but not those who read and understand it.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:41 PM

35. I hate that our future is largely hanging by the point. ANd little else.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 01:59 PM

19. The Times qualified it, as they should.

Treason is specifically defined in law within the US Constitution. The reason it was put there is to prevent a charge of treason being used as a political weapon.

Those who casually fling "treason" around here apparently do not understand why it was specifically defined in our most cherished body of law in the first place.

I do not know if what Drumpf has done rises to that level. That's up to the judiciary to decide, if that question ever comes up.

The NYT correctly characterizes this as "potentionally treasonous". I am sure that their lawyers are acutely aware of the legal status of those words.

Here is Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.


Let that guide us with regards to this issue.

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Response to longship (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 06:42 PM

47. Still trying to decipher this part:

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.


What does that actually mean?

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Response to Nictuku (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 06:51 PM

48. A person is not guilty if ones father is found guilty.

In other words guilt is not passed on through bloodline.

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Response to longship (Reply #48)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 07:46 PM

49. Ahh! Thank you!

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Response to longship (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 11:11 AM

59. How about this?

Aid - insisting the GOP drop it's opposition to Russia's actions in the Ukrain, and
Comfort - Trumps constant denial of Russia's involvement in violating international law by interferring in our election.

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 11:37 AM

60. Than, there's "enemy".

We are not at war with Russia. We aren't even in a Cold War with them. Russia launches NASA astronauts to the ISS, for Christ sakes.

Now, I think Putin's a fucking jerk. But I don't think it is in the US interest to consider us at war with Russia, or to consider them an enemy.

As always, the judicial interpretation of the US Constitution is multifactorial (whether one likes that or not). Therein lies a charge of treason.

My best to you.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

22. Is this the same New York Times that promoted the war in Iraq?

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Response to hibbing (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:08 PM

26. What is the specific relevance of the one story on the other?

What is the specific relevance of the one story on the other?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:19 PM

29. Corporate media...I'm a cynic, carry on

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

23. Meh, nobody cares. Der Drumpfenfuhrer has poisoned the media so bad nobody listens anymore.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:03 PM

24. COLLUSION and TREASON



Traitor and enemy of the state....

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:09 PM

27. Call a spade a spade

Trump committed his first widely recognized act of treason when he called upon Russian hackers to keep on hacking into and releasing Hillary's e-mails while the campaign was still going on. Any citizen of any country who calls for a second country to interfere with the election process from a broad public platform such as trump had and did is committing an act of treason. trump continues to downplay the seriousness of Russian interference with a US election by blaming the dems for not having as secure a system as the republicans supposedly did and also stated that "many" countries have also hacked into the computers of various other American government entities. This is like saying that Russia's actions were okay because all the other kids were (supposedly) doing the same.

trump is not my president nor is he America's president. Not only did he lose the popular vote in the US, but he apparently won the vote in Russia through subversive means.

Comrade trump - 143.5 million Russians can't be wrong.

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Response to Mountain Mule (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:20 PM

30. Well said, Mountain Mule.

Couldn't agree more. Oh, and welcome to DU. Glad to have you on the board.

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Response to Mountain Mule (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:20 PM

31. Trump lost the popular vote by a much larger # then the 3 million figure

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512623597

Trump would have lost the E.C. too if it wasn't for "cross check."

Welcome to DU

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Response to Botany (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 03:52 PM

40. Thanks for the welcome Botany and Classof56!

Actually, I've been around for a while, but when the Great Election Day Hack occurred, it seemed easier to get back on the board by signing up with a new user name rather than attemptig to recover my old one. I like "Mountain Mule" better than my old name, anyhow. This board and you folks are about all that is keeping me sane during these dark days for our country.

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Response to Mountain Mule (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 10:53 PM

53. Never forget




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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:14 PM

28. Finally the press and its public are starting to understand.

Trump is working with the Russian spies!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:38 PM

34. He is still at large when he ought to be Ameicas Most Wanted. Criminal that is.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 02:56 PM

38. No they didn't.

They put it into the subjunctive: "would amount to extremely serious, potentially treasonous acts."

What jumped out to me was how they mentioned that the dossier was "opposition research" five times.

And how they stressed that the material was uncorroborated; unproven (they used "unsubstantiated" six times); they called it "unverified, defamatory material."

This piece had so much punch-pulling in it that it read to me almost like a defense of Trump. Very different in tone to the kind of stories they published on Hillary Clinton. Not even one mention of how this is a "cloud" or a "shadow" on Trump, lol.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 03:54 PM

41. Now this one is credible

....and probably provable. Unlike the pee in a hotel room story which I think is a fake out to discredit the reporting of these real and far more more important life and death stories.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 05:21 PM

43. Support them.

 

It doesnt cost much to get a subscription

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 05:29 PM

44. The question is: Will the DEMS go there?????

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Response to lindysalsagal (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 05:40 PM

46. I'm waiting for Harry Reid to say the T word

i expect the shoe should drop any time now.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 05:34 PM

45. IT'S NOT TREASON.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution. Nor do acts of Espionage committed on behalf of an ally constitute treason. For example, julius and ethel rosenberg were convicted of espionage, in 1951, for helping the Soviet Union steal atomic secrets from the United States during World War II. The Rosenbergs were not tried for treason because the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during World War II.

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Response to eggplant (Reply #45)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 08:54 PM

50. Section 3.

Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


OR.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2017, 11:48 PM

55. HEY, nyt, if you had done your damned job in the first place, we wouldn't be in this mess.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:34 AM

56. When Does Comey's Subversion and Sabotage of the Election Become Treason?

We also have a sitting FBI director who, with malice and forethought, subverted and sabotaged the presidential election. Now he is slow-walking intelligence reports and findings for the same purpose. At what point does his behavior become treason?

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:33 AM

58. And it's not just Trump. It's Conway too (at minimum).


If the allegations in the dossier are true, then it wasn't just Trump who colluded with Putin to influence the election -- it was also his campaign team.

Kellyanne Conway is sweating bullets under that plastic smile.


MDN

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Response to Mike Niendorff (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:55 PM

61. you're correct, the report stated "trump and his teams" coordinated with russia.

it's on page 2, #2

as for commy conway...I don't think even she can lie her way out of this.....she is peeing in her pants.

The intelligence report is now every where and i don't care who leaked it, it needed to be leaked....trump and his team colluded with our #1 enemy during the election to sway the outcome.

If he isn't being audited/investigated by the IRS, he is now...along with the CIA, FBI, NSA, treasury department, and allies around the world.

Fuck trump and his team..they played their games with false salacious reports, lies upon lies, crude condemnation of the press and intelligence agencies...while praising putin and russia. How the hell can people not see that he is a puppet of putin.

is golden shower salacious news? yep, this asshole deserves it, expect more leaks from the press, intelligence agencies, his enemnies, and our allies.

maybe someone from his campaign who is not a part of the collusion will do the leaking? (pun consciously unintentional)

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:26 PM

62. The words, "unsubstantiated reports" appears several times. what does that mean in this case?

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