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Thu Jun 21, 2012, 04:03 PM

White House Stands By Holder On Fast And Furious

White House Stands By Holder On Fast And Furious

The White House is standing by Attorney General Eric Holder as the House prepares to vote on a resolution finding him in contempt of Congress next week for allegedly not complying with a subpoena seeking documents related to the botched ATF operation known as Fast and Furious.

“The president has full confidence in the attorney general,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Thursday. “We have been and will continue to engage in an effort to resolve this and await a demonstration of an interest to resolve this in a way that isn’t all about political theater.”

Separately, House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters he thought Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) was grasping for a scalp because – despite declaring Obama “one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times” – he has failed to make any big waves as chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

“I believe it’s a show of frustration on behalf of chairman Issa – that he was going to come in and get all this oversight of the Obama administration,” Hoyer told reporters, according to TPM’s Brian Beutler.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/white-house-stands-by-holder-on-fast-furious


76 replies, 8544 views

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Reply White House Stands By Holder On Fast And Furious (Original post)
ProSense Jun 2012 OP
tabatha Jun 2012 #1
Johonny Jun 2012 #2
bvar22 Jun 2012 #3
ProSense Jun 2012 #4
bvar22 Jun 2012 #7
ProSense Jun 2012 #8
whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #19
ProSense Jun 2012 #22
whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #24
ProSense Jun 2012 #26
whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #30
ProSense Jun 2012 #33
girl gone mad Jun 2012 #62
bvar22 Jun 2012 #20
ProSense Jun 2012 #21
bvar22 Jun 2012 #29
ProSense Jun 2012 #31
AverageJoe90 Jun 2012 #56
rhett o rick Jun 2012 #59
bvar22 Jun 2012 #67
rhett o rick Jun 2012 #68
sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #27
ProSense Jun 2012 #35
rhett o rick Jun 2012 #72
rufus dog Jun 2012 #9
Ghost in the Machine Jun 2012 #11
rufus dog Jun 2012 #13
Solomon Jun 2012 #18
whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #36
emulatorloo Jun 2012 #54
whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #64
Dokkie Jun 2012 #23
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #65
KharmaTrain Jun 2012 #5
rhett o rick Jun 2012 #57
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #63
bvar22 Jun 2012 #71
kentuck Jun 2012 #6
rufus dog Jun 2012 #10
TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #14
ProSense Jun 2012 #15
TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #47
rufus dog Jun 2012 #16
TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #70
sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #46
bvar22 Jun 2012 #51
Aerows Jun 2012 #12
TBF Jun 2012 #17
bvar22 Jun 2012 #32
Aerows Jun 2012 #34
bvar22 Jun 2012 #52
Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #25
ProSense Jun 2012 #28
RZM Jun 2012 #37
Aerows Jun 2012 #39
RZM Jun 2012 #40
Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #41
RZM Jun 2012 #42
ProSense Jun 2012 #43
Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #44
ProSense Jun 2012 #45
girl gone mad Jun 2012 #66
bvar22 Jun 2012 #69
Marr Jun 2012 #75
BklnDem75 Jun 2012 #76
Aerows Jun 2012 #38
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #73
slackmaster Jun 2012 #48
Odin2005 Jun 2012 #49
bvar22 Jun 2012 #50
frylock Jun 2012 #53
emulatorloo Jun 2012 #55
FSogol Jun 2012 #58
YvonneCa Jun 2012 #60
frylock Jun 2012 #61
Marr Jun 2012 #74

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 04:43 PM

1. If this is handled right, it could seriously embarrass the GOP and Issa.

I so hope they do.

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Response to tabatha (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 05:03 PM

2. there is nothing on Earth that apparently embarrasses Issa

you have to have the concept of shame to be embarrassed

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:39 PM

3. Not a good idea.

The Democratic Party leadership should cut Holder loose faster than they did ACORN,
and get as much distance from him as possible.
Holder should fall on his sword.

Fast & Furious was/is a disaster.
What were they thinking?





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Response to bvar22 (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:42 PM

4. Bullshit! n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 07:50 PM

7. Bullshit? Really?

You really think it is smart for the Party Leadership to burn political capital "Standing By"
the guy who:

*Literally could not get corrupt Republican Ted Stevens out of jail fast enough,
but has never heard of unjustly imprisoned Democratic Governor Don Siegelman?

*believes that Medical Marijuana is a bigger threat to our nation than corrupt Wall Street Bankers?

*tepid about investigating Election Fraud, Voter Suppression, and hackable BBV machines?

*who supported (by his silence, if not actively involved) the nationally co-ordinated brutal suppression
of peaceful OWS Protesters?

My, my.

At least ACORN was doing some good for the Democratic Party before they were so quickly dumped.

If Eric Holder had shown any inclination for Standing UP for Civil Liberties and Constitutional Protections of our citizens, ...

If he had shown an appetite for Taking On the Wall Street Vultures and going to bat for the Working Class,...

IF he had stepped in during the OWS Beat Down and said, "Wait a minute..."

I would have a different opinion.
But he hasn't, and I don't.

Standing UP for Holder is a waste of political capital.
The White House should keep its distance,
NOT embrace Fast & Furious.

Standing UP for Holder is Obama's "Heck of a job, Brownie" moment.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 07:55 PM

8. Yes, bullshit

and fuck Issa!

Clear?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:03 PM

19. So this is what's left when you strip away

the inane bullet-point lists and regurgitated talking points. Impressive.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:12 PM

22. Tags:

So this is what's left when you strip away the inane bullet-point lists and regurgitated talking points. Impressive.

Stupid, Irrelevant, Attention-Seeking, FAIL!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:17 PM

24. Ha, look who's talking!

84,182 posts?

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:21 PM

26. Wow

Apparently you can count, but big numbers give you a headache.

I'm looking forward to 100,000 post.

That'll be a two-hand head slap, huh?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:33 PM

30. You're the only one looking forward to that

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #30)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:37 PM

33. Yeah,

"I don't have the requisite narcissism (or agenda) to reach your 'heights'"

...especially when one's sole purpose here is jumping into threads to post silly comments about other posters.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:12 PM

62. Why so touchy lately?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:04 PM

20. Oh, I Agree,

Fuck Issa,
but lets not fuck ourselves in the process.

At BEST, Holder will be considered a luke warm, lazy AG,
more willing to Go with the Flow than to risk making any waves,
and THAT is what got him INTO this trouble,
not calling an immediate moratorium on EVERY SINGLE Bush legacy "undercover program"
until further review.

We should choose our battles wisely.
Why all the years of keeping our powder dry
to burn it up on a something like this?

Fast & Furious was, and IS, a monumental Fuck Up,
a Bush Legacy Fuck Up,
but after 3-1/2 years it is hard not to acknowledge some responsibility.

President Obama doesn't need to actively condemn Holder,
but it would be wiser to keep some distance and not enter the fray until all the facts are known.

I love a good fight,
and wish I saw MORE Stand Our Ground from this administration...

....But to waste a good fight?
For THIS?

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:08 PM

21. Again

At BEST, Holder will be considered a luke warm, lazy AG,
more willing to Go with the Flow than to risk making any waves,
and THAT is what got him INTO this trouble,
not calling an immediate moratorium on EVERY SINGLE Bush legacy "undercover program"
until further review.

...with the nonsensical bullshit.

I love how all this advice is being offer to Obama for his own good: "President Obama doesn't need to actively condemn Holder,
but it would be wiser to keep some distance and not enter the fray until all the facts are known."

Here's a fact: Obama is the President. He selected Holder to carry out his policies and to uphold the law. If Obama has confidence in him, take issue with Obama and stop hiding behind concern for him to push Holder hate.

And again: Fuck Issa!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:26 PM

29. Now THAT is odd.

You state:
"Here's a fact: Obama is the President. He selected Holder to carry out his policies"
Forgive me if I'm mistaken,
but weren't you one of those who insisted that the AG was completely separate from the White House when Democrats were calling for investigations and prosecutions of Wall Street Bankers and Bush War Criminals?




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:33 PM

31. What?

You state:
"Here's a fact: Obama is the President. He selected Holder to carry out his policies"
Forgive me if I'm mistaken,
but weren't you one of those who insisted that the AG was completely separate from the White House when Democrats were calling for investigations and prosecutions of Wall Street Bankers and Bush War Criminals?

What the hell does that have to do with Obama having selected Holder for a cabinet position, like he does with all such positions, U.S. attorneys, and other nominations?

Also, what the hell does that have to do with Obama expressing confidence in Holder?





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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:13 PM

56. Agreed. nt

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:31 PM

59. We need to fight every battle. I am sick of keeping powder dry. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 05:17 PM

67. Fight every battle?

We should fight for those who won't fight for you?

Eric Holder, at a minimum, stood idly by while the violent suppression of legal protests at OWS were planned and coordinated at the National Level.
I can't prove it, but AG Holder was most probably inside the loop at the planning stages.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/271203-nadler-letter-to-eric-holder.html

If I were the AG,
and something like that was planned and coordinated at the national level,
and I was left out of the loop,
I would be unleashing MY inner Junk Yard Dog,
whether I agreed with OWS or not.
You don't DO that in MY HOUSE without telling me.

And WHAT do we "win" if we are successful in this ill-chosen battle?
The Status Quo?

We should fight,
but fight the right battles for the right reasons.

Spending Political Capital protecting a lackluster Attorney General
who has shown absolutely no inclination to fight for America's Working Class,
and has an obsession with closing down Medicinal MJ clinics while Wall Street robs us blind and SuperPACS collude with Political Campaigns
is not a fight gets me all fired up.

I can think of a dozen battles we (and the AG) should be fighting,
beginning with obvious voter suppression conspiracies and hackable "private" BBV machines.





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Response to bvar22 (Reply #67)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 06:57 PM

68. Holder was appointed by the Pres. He is doing what the president wants.

We have to support the president at this point. Now is not the time to try to straighten out the president's appointments. I dont like Holder, but I assume he is doing what his boss wants.

We need to fight all the battles, not pick and choose.

As far as expecting fair elections, kiss that idea goodbye. The Democratic Party has not shown one iota of interest in stopping the Republican election theft. 2000 and 2004 hello. The Republicans are willing to do anything to steal this coming election.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

27. Why didn't they 'fuck Issa' when he put forward his egregious and unconstitutional bill of attainder

to defund ACORN?

Why didn't they 'fuck Issa' when he refused to respond to subpoenas himself?

Why didn't they hold him in contempt?

Why didn't they 'fuck Karl Rove' when HE ignored Congressional Subpoenas?

Why didn't they 'fuck all Republicans' and proceed with prosecuting Wall Street Criminals, INCLUDING Issa, who is protecting them?

Yes, 'fuck Issa', we've been saying it for years, to no avail. And he's doing what Issa has always done, big surprise.

Because no one stopped him before.

This is what you get when you don't have the guts to go after criminals, because 'they might retaliate'.

Thanks Sunstein!

As if none of this was not predictable once they were told 'we are moving forward'.

Maybe now they've learned their lesson. NOT prosecuting their criminals will. not. get. any. respect. They do not wait to retaliate, they are always, always on the offensive.

And when Democrats refuse to put THEM on the defensive, they become even bolder. THEY HAVE NO INTEGRITY.

Is the lesson learned now?

I hope so.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:40 PM

35. Yes,

Yes, 'fuck Issa', we've been saying it for years, to no avail. And he's doing what Issa has always done, big surprise...Is the lesson learned now?

I hope so.

...fuck Issa, and you agree.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #35)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:58 PM

72. Wow, you have such a narrow focus that you totally missed the point.

Issa has power because the DEmocrats in Congress are cowards. They grovel at his feet. Just like they groveled at Bush's feet for 8 years. "Yes mr President, you want to kill innocent children in Iraq, in Afghanistan, yes sir, be our guest" "Would you like the Patriot Act, Sure how about domestic spying? Ok if you want."

It is time for OUR Democratic Congressional representatives to stand their ground and stop letting the Repukes run over them.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #7)


Response to rufus dog (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:14 PM

11. Well don't hold back.. tell us how you *really* feel!



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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:26 PM

13. I am soooo pissed off at these purity posts

I don't like Holder but I can see the big picture!

For fucks sake.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:48 PM

18. They really are absurd. Holder is quietly kucking ass just

like Obama does. Yet people say he's done nothing. I see reports of wall street types getting convicted, yet the media doesn't report it.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:40 PM

36. Yeah, fuck that purity shit! I want a lyin-ass tainted government!

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 02:39 PM

54. Then go after ISSA (Breitbart Jr)

Issa is attempting to push a crazed wing nut conspiracy theory into the mainstream.

Partly because Holder is cracking down on voter purges in Florida.

Partly because ISSA baselessly proclaims Obama is the most corrupt modern president ever. He is manufacturing a scandal, just as Breitbart did with Acorn and Shirley Sherrod, Occupy, etc etc.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #54)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:20 PM

64. Issa's a douche spillway

for sure. I'm still not loving the executive order.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:14 PM

23. Not just cut loose

 

Take all the blame and responsibility that comes with it. Fall on the damn sword already so we can move the fuck on.

He is now a dead weight that will take attention away from real 2012 campaigning. Holder should do the right thing and take one big one for the team and while he is at it, take out and dmg as many republicans who voted for this bill in the first place.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:22 PM

65. And if Obama were in the mood to appease Republicans, wouldn't he simply

appoint an attorney general even worse (from our point of view) than Holder?

What makes anyone think that Obama would choose an even more controversial AG?

I support Holder in this. Issa is on a witch hunt. I wonder whether he is motivated by more than just partisan pettiness and fanaticism.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:49 PM

5. Yep...Just Play Right Into Issa Hands...

They want a scalp...and have had Holder in their sites for a long time (ya think cause he's maybe...uh black??). The racism in this whole smelly scam investigation is typical for a party that uses hatred as a political "tool".

BTW...if you want to know what "they" were thinking, maybe Mr. Issa should subpoena the boooosh era people who were responsible for setting up this program. Of course they won't. It's all political circus...and you're wanting to enable this? I have issues with Holder, but this isn't one worth his resignation...

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:26 PM

57. I am certainly not a Holder fan, but now isnt the time to throw him under the bus.

It will look like the Republicans have the Pres on the ropes. And they wouldnt allow the Pres to replace Holder.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:19 PM

63. Listen to the first hour of Randi Rhodes show on 06/20/2012.

Holder did not do anything wrong on this.

Bush started this thing, and Holder's department tried to end it, but according to Randi Rhodes, someone in Arizona did not follow Holder's program.

In my view, this really is a matter of national security, and Issa is in the wrong.

And by the way, other than prove beyond question that the excessively free flow of guns, an artificially created free flow of guns from another country, causes violence in a society full of drug cartels, it has nothing to do with American gun laws.

We are not (yet anyway) a society full of drug cartels and in no danger of being flooded with guns by some foreign country. Fast and Furious was conceived by people in the Bush administration (wouldn't you know it), and it certainly was not created to challenge the gun lobby.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:51 PM

6. The Repubs believe Obama is an easy mark...


They believe he will make a deal. Call off the dogs and we will stop the voter fraud investigations. Call off the dogs and we will discuss making the Bush taxcuts permanent. Call off the dogs and we will work with you on whatever you want. That is what they are thinking, in my opinion.

It would be nice to see the President draw a line in the sand and not compromise with these fraudsters and blackmailers. But, to be honest, I have my doubts.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:13 PM

10. Obama becomes an easy mark with the help of Democrats who are fucking ignorant

The propose we cut Holder and with our fucking purity will win.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:27 PM

14. I hope you said the same about ACORN and all the other under the bus gang.

Fuck Eric Holder, he is less than worthless. I'm not going to be triangulated into circling the wagons around that guy when liberals are cut and forgotten in the search for "centrist" purity.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:35 PM

15. No. Fuck Issa! n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:25 AM

47. Yup, fuck him with a rusty dumpster but fuck Holder stands too.

If "our Eric" had come in to prosecute the last cabal rather than following in their footsteps and didn't have a hardon for the failed drug war we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Protect him, if he willingly oversaw this shit then I think he should be prosecuted which has been my exact stance with the architects of this bullshit.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:37 PM

16. In fact I did

You do not cut in face of opposition. It is playing right into their hands. You punch them in the fucking face and move on.

I have no issue with Acorn, Democrats rolling on them opened the door for Repukes to be bigger assholes. Again, you tell them to fuck off!

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 07:24 PM

70. That is good and decent, Rufus, but you know many of the most forceful defenders

where posting "cut them loose" threads at the time, they were fine with rolling over on Sherod, they were fine with leaving Van Jones hanging, they were uniformly leading the dump Weiner bandwagon, are always talking of ways to placate the TeaPubliKlans and bogus bipartisanship and I do find it beyond strange that all the sudden we hear about some gumption just in time to circle the wagons for a Turd Way part of the problem when we couldn't even be having the conversation if he had went after the criminals that started this shit instead of continuing it to prosecute the failed drug war.

I also notice that there few, if any, claims of actual innocence and instead the excuse that Bush started it which is hollow and stupid considering Democrats were elected to clean up the mess not keep it going. Now we have Democrats on here minimizing deaths, pretending the scheme is kosher, and just generally not giving a fuck about anything but the rule of law standing on the disgusting but predictable TeaPubliKlan hypocrisy on the matter, many of the same folks always pressing for policy assimilation with the fucking crooks.

This is self inflicted to my mind, this behavior and hypocrisy are not only expected but forewarned which is why you prosecute and reverse policy.

I'm also not going to spend any time defending this level of not just amoral criminality but incompetence. If someone would OK a scheme like this they are so brain dead as not to be trusted with any level of stewardship, particularly with the benefit of hindsight. This had ALREADY been a criminal BushCo. FAIL so why would anyone worth a cup of cold piss decide to go with an encore? Worse yet, to persecute the fucking drug war????

Oh come on! The policy is totally indefensible, the purpose is failed and stupid, and the actions seriously dangerous and completely past goofy.

I don't get any of the argument here. This is the kind of shit we are supposed to "stand with"? Not me.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 12:23 AM

46. Rule of Law = 'purity'

That 'purity' talking point was worn out when WE were demanding that Democrats hold Republican criminals accountable.

And anyone with a brain cell functioning KNEW that if Democrats did not have the guts to go after them when they had the chance, this is what would happen.

I think I may have met you back when I was demanding that Issa be stopped from defunding ACORN. That he be exposed, vilified, annihilated, and airc, I was called a 'purist' for wanting to put a stop Issa's non-stop pursuit of Democrats. I was told Democrats just had to do what Issa wanted, because if they didn't, it might make them 'look bad'. I did not agree. So I was a 'purist'. I'm proud to be a purist. Because we purists have been right all along.

NOW we see the results of NOT holding Republicans accountable, just as we predicted.

Did you defend Democrats when they allowed Issa to intimidate them into illegally defunding ACORN too?

Did you defend them when they decided NOT to hold Rove in contempt?

When they decided not to prosecute War Criminals?

When Issa defended the Banksters from prosecution?

Please do not dare to tell those of us who have been screaming for standing up to Republicans for years, that WE are the ones who are wrong here. THIS, what's happening NOW, is the result of all those who defended every cave in by Democrats since 2006 and before.

Now you come to us for support against the very people WE wanted all of you to grind into the dust but the leaderships said 'no' and the very same people who are now attacking US, supported every wrong move they made.

You all emboldened these crooks, as we said would happen.

Signed,
Proud Purist

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 11:59 AM

51. "Obama becomes an easy mark with the help of Democrats who are fucking ignorant"

On THAT, my friend, we absolutely agree.

Perhaps if you used better language,
presented your thoughts in an organized way,
addressed points made in the posts you are attempting to rebut,
and stopped screaming,
..readers here wouldn't rush-to-judgement about which category of Democrats you represent.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:16 PM

12. I detest Holder

And I've made no bones about this. But Issa voted to fund this shit in 2008, and pretending he knows nothing about it now makes him look like an idiot. He's able to do that all by himself, but this is further evidence and will destroy his credibility.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:41 PM

17. +1 nt

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Response to Aerows (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:37 PM

32. Fine! Throw it back in Issa's lap!

..but THAT can be done without embracing the monumental Fuck Up called Fast & Furious.
Somebody's head should roll,
and that head belongs to AG Holder.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:39 PM

34. Can't stand Holder

But if anyone needs to shut the hell up about this, it is Issa who voted to fund this before Holder was ever in the picture.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

52. The problem with THAT strategy...

... is that it essentially admits that Holder Fucked Up Badly.

The "Yeah, but you did it too" is a concession.
Holder should fall on his sword....TODAY,
for the good of The Party and the President.

Holder should call a Press Conference,
admit that Fast & Furious was monumental mistake,
that put guns in the hands of criminals,
got people killed,
AND that it was a continuation of a Bush Program that Issa supported.
ONLY Holder can do this,
and it turns the spotlight BACK on Issa and The Republicans.

Any continued effort by President Obama to protect Holder,
especially by invoking Executive Privilege only paints the White House
with ALL the appearances of Complicity and Cover-Up.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:21 PM

25. Isn't re-electing Obama more important than Holder surviving?

Wouldn't the best scenario be for Holder to accept the blame and quit, so this whole disaster becomes a non-story? And then how about Obama makes an attention-grabbing appointment like moving Hillary to Attorney General and appointing Bill Clinton as Secretary of State?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

28. You should

"Isn't re-electing Obama more important than Holder surviving?"

...ask Obama, but I think the OP is pretty clear where he stands on Holder.

And then how about Obama makes an attention-grabbing appointment like moving Hillary to Attorney General and appointing Bill Clinton as Secretary of State?



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Response to ProSense (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:41 PM

37. So he says now. This is just the first round of volleys

 

Give it a few months.

My prediction is that Holder will not be AG by the next inauguration. I give it 50/50 whether he's dumped before or after the election.

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Response to RZM (Reply #37)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:43 PM

39. After

He's got to be dumped for a multitude of reasons, but this isn't one of them now that all the facts are coming to light.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:46 PM

40. Right now I would slightly lean towards after too. But if this goes on long enough . . .

 

They might just cut their losses. I think the decision has been made, it's just a question of whether or not doing so before the election would hurt or help him. They're crunching the numbers 24/7 and that will guide the decision. If the polls say it would be worse to do it now, they wont. If they say it will, they will.

One thing working towards later is the issue of consistency. Shuffling your people in the middle of the campaign doesn't look good. But if Holder gets hot enough, it might be worth it.

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Response to RZM (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:54 PM

41. Dump him now. Issue goes away.

Forgotten in a week. Ancient history by August. By November, more people will remember Weiner's crotch shots than "Fast and Furious".

No-brainer.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #41)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:59 PM

42. Does that outweigh the weakness it shows? I don't know. I'll leave that to the strategists

 

Who are paid big $$ to do this. It all depends how long they think this will go on. If it's only going to be a couple weeks, they might keep him. If the think it will go on for months it would probably be better to cut their losses and dump him.

I won't be sad to see him go at all. Hopefully his replacement pursues a sensible policy on medical marijuana.

That might actually lend itself to a post-election dump, when I'm hoping the president goes in a new direction on drug laws.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #41)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 10:00 PM

43. This one actually

Dump him now. Issue goes away.

Forgotten in a week. Ancient history by August. By November, more people will remember Weiner's crotch shots than "Fast and Furious".

No-brainer.

...requires a brain. Do you think Issa will drop it? That he'll give the next AG a pass? That Republicans will suddenly end their attempts to make Obama a one-term President?

Here's a hint from the OP:

Separately, House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters he thought Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) was grasping for a scalp because – despite declaring Obama “one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times” – he has failed to make any big waves as chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

The no-brainer position is to say: Fuck Issa.

Try it!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #43)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 10:05 PM

44. OK. I'll concede that reasonable people can differ on this.

But would you be devastated if Holder took it upon himself to quit, admitting responsibility for some mistakes and stating that he didn't want to be a distraction during the upcoming election campaign? I wouldn't.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #44)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 10:09 PM

45. I only wish

OK. I'll concede that reasonable people can differ on this.

But would you be devastated if Holder took it upon himself to quit, admitting responsibility for some mistakes and stating that he didn't want to be a distraction during the upcoming election campaign? I wouldn't.

...that Holder could tell Issa to fuck off.

Still, I liked his official statement: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002834577

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Response to ProSense (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:27 PM

66. So this is where Dems draw a line in the sand?

Directly in front of crooked, useless cabinet officials?

And you want the rest of us to hold the line for this Chiquita-death-squad-loving, gun-running tool after all of the administration's capitulations and relentless attacks on the left over the preceding years? Fuck that noise. I'll keep my powder dry, thanks.

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #66)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 07:09 PM

69. You GO, girl gone mad!!!




I'm tired of fighting for people that refuse to fight for me.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 05:51 AM

75. I can't agree with that. A resignation would be a kind of admission of guilt.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not circling any wagons for Eric Holder, but I don't think dumping him would be the smart move for the White House.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 07:39 AM

76. Is this a joke?

Do you think this witch hunt would stop with Holder? In the face of everything you learned about this Congress for the past 3.5 years, you actually believe that bs?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:42 PM

38. I can't stand Holder

and you know this since we've gone around and around on this. But Issa? Issa who voted to fund the program is the one complaining about it?

That right there is a much bigger hypocrisy than anything Holder has participated in, and again, you know I don't like him.

I've come to the conclusion that this isn't Holder's ball of wax so much as it is a political witch hunt perpetrated by Issa who is hoping to hide his role in allowing this to continue and to make political hay because President Obama's numbers are high.

I think Issa has stepped in it, though, this time, because he voted for it.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:34 AM

73. Hey, I don't know if you knew...

But if Holder loses his day job and Obama appoints a new AG... the Republicans can (and make no mistake, will) hold up his or her appointment all the way to the election. Effectively for five months there will be no attorney general. The DoJ will still function, but there will be no one calling the "big shots." that the AG does.

Big shots such as investigating voter disenfranchisement.

See how that works? Stall efforts to purge Democrats - and yes, we know they're targeting Democrats, or at least, "Democratic districts" - just long enough to pull the election.

Further, Obama letting Holder go will hurt Obama's re-election efforts. The Attorney general isn't some small-potatoes bullshit job that you can pass out to a guy you know who jacks off horses for a living (that's FEMA, take a right at the fourth door). It would be on par with say... if Bush had dumped Rumsfeld halfway in 2004. Death knell for any hopes of re-election. You want to drop the big names from your roster AFTER the election, not before.

Holding onto Holder has its flaws - but they're not BIG flaws. This is barely even a scandal, as far as scandals go. A Bush program, ENDED by Holder, went a little off the rails and an agent may have been killed due to it. yeah, that's bad... But it's not Watergate. it's not Iran Contra. it's not even "Mission Accomplished," it's "shit happens when your department has a dangerous job to do." Police commissioners aren't forced to resign if an officer dies in a sting. if you want to argue that he SHOULD, fine, make that argument, but the fact is it doesn't happen.

Keeping Holder on board until at least the settlement of the election does let the Republicans keep pecking at it. You know, like htye do with the birth certificate thing, or solyndra, or all that other bullshit they peck at that nobody buys. However throwing Holder under the bus not only CONFIRMS that this is a "big scandal," but it also weakens the Obama campaign AND gives the Republicans a free ride to fuck YOU, the voter, all the way into November.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:28 AM

48. Two weeks until the President refers to Holder a "over-zealous in his defense of liberty"

 

In a press conference.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:29 AM

49. It's OK when our side does it!!!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 11:46 AM

50. Jon Stewart summed up my feelings exactly about this growing embarrassment...

...on the Daily Show last night,
especially with President Obama now exerting "Executive Privilege" to protect Eric Holder.
.
.
.
.
What a WASTE of all that Dry Powder.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 12:54 PM

53. like it or not, the admin now owns this issue

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Response to frylock (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 02:44 PM

55. And the issue is ISSA claims this is Obama's secret plot to take away your guns!

If DU'ers can't recognize that ISSA is lying and pushing a wing nut conspiracy theory in order to smear Obama, then they need to do a little more research.

Issa is a Breitbart wannabe

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #55)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:30 PM

58. +1 Spot on. n/t

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #55)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:36 PM

60. Issa is a jerk. I am embarrassed to say...

...he is a California jerk, elected to the Congressional district next door to mine. I hope people here research his history and find out the truth about him.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #55)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 04:09 PM

61. yes, issa is a lying jerk..

but that doesn't change the fact that F&F started in 2009. it doesn't change the fact that holder knew about it in 2010, and it certainly doesn't help that holder was less than truthful about this knowledge when he testified to congress. mix in a little executive privilege and you have the perception of a cover up.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 05:43 AM

74. If the White House had stood by Shirley Sherrod, Van Jones, ACORN, Unions,

the Occupy Movement, and a whole host of other people and organizations, more Democrats might be inclined to defend Eric Holder.

Of course, it makes sense both legally and politically for the Obama Administration to take the position they're taking here, but don't expect me to cheer, or for average people to circle the wagons for a guy like Eric Holder at this point.

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