Which side are you on: Russia or America?

[kentuck]

That's the bottom line, isn't it?

It now appears that Russia was intimately involved in the Trump campaign for the Presidency, according to all intelligence reports.

And now, corporate leaders are in control of all branches of our government. It is also known as fascism when your government is controlled by corporations.

The line has been drawn. Where do you stand? Are you with Russia and her allies in our government or do you stand with America?

Our country is under threat and if you are not with us, then you are against us.

[David__77]

1. I don't agree with the premise.

Russia is not my enemy.

[kentuck]

2. Russia is your friend?

Enough said.

[David__77]

4. I didn't say that.

I said Russia is not my enemy.

[mopinko]

18. so what. they still dont get a vote here.

[Generator]

25. You have a pink triangle

Russia is the enemy of gay people. Do some reading.

[David__77]

27. I understand.

The Russian government has also enacted policies I disagree with. I also don't consider the country of Russia to be my enemy.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

43. the north Koreans don't consider Americans as the enemy

Just American policy makers. It's the same thing.

Even if they weren't your enemy, they should be now. Their actions were that of an enemy.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

64. North Koreans are still waiting for their AOL log-ons to go through

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Friends don't surreptitiously interfere in friends affairs to their detriment.

Their interference in our election was an act of war.

[SHRED]

17. "Your" enemy?

WTH are you talking about?

[David__77]

19. Yes, me

The post, as I understood it, was addressed to the individuals reading it. I understand that my use of the term "enemy" comes from my own interpretation of the post. I understood the post as challenging individuals to take a stand against Russia. As I do not see Russia as my enemy, I have no such stand.

[SHRED]

21. Yeah...They have such an open society

[shraby]

38. Maybe you clicked onto the wrong site??

[David__77]

42. I don't believe so.

...

[TeamPooka]

66. If they helped trump get elected they sure as hell are, even if you don't realize it.

[Hoyt]

3. I hope we aren't going to rehash the Cold War. It was not good for either country.

I'm a little dismayed by all the Russia hate here. I get why we want to attack Trump, but not sure about trashing Russia in the effort. It's not like we haven't interfered in elections before. And I'm not sure Russia changed the vote count in any way. Personally, I think we have missed past opportunities to work with Russia on important issues.

[kentuck]

6. Look at the end results.

Fascism.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. She lost the EC by 80,000 votes, less than one percent in MI, PA, and WI

The constant drip drip from ruskileaks could certainly have made a difference.


It was an act of war that subverted our electoral process, made a mockery of the rule of law, and undermined our sovereignty.

[kentuck]

9. Plus the hate, the lies, the division...

There is no way we can "normalize" this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. President Obama and Secretary Clinton tried to have cordial relations with Russia.

Relations deteriorated when we wouldn't accede to the cordon sanitaire he demanded.

I see a false dichotomy being set up here by some. I wonder what their motivations are. We are progressives who want cordial relations with all the nations of the world based on mutual respect and common interests. Putin wanted a puppet and to that end he did everything he could to saddle us with an authoritarian president.

kentuck, I could have lived with a Rubio or a Kasich. It's hard to live with a fascist who had the help of the FBI and a former KGB agent to get elected.

[kentuck]

16. I hear you

[Hoyt]

30. I just don't get excited about the Ruskies hacking DNC emails. Christ, if you don't want something

"leaked," don't put it in an email or write it where people can come to false conclusions.

I want Trump gone as much as others, well except for Pence standing in waiting, but I don't think this or the recounts are the way to do that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Folks have a right to private communications.

In isolation any ruskileak was of no great moment. Most of it was innocuous stuff. When I worked in an office environment the joke was the person that got trashed at any given moment was the person that wasn't around. That's what the e-mails largely revealed, that and the party rewarding a candidate who had done so much for it: Hillary Clinton. But in toto the ruskileaks put the party and by association Hillary in a bad light. In a close Electoral College election it didn't help. Throw in Comey's shenanigans and a good case can be made we were robbed.

Putin is a bad guy...He's not a small d democrat. He's dictator who is not above poisoning and killing his opponents. The fact we might have interfered in other nation's election isn't dispositive. It took brass ones for him to interfere in ours.

[Hoyt]

37. Fine, tell every hacker about that "right." Might as well say people have "right" not to get cancer.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. So the onus is on the person that gets hacked?

That's like arguing a person who has been car jacked is somehow responsible because he or she was driving a car.

It took brass ones for Putin to fuck with the election of the world's pre-eminent military, economic, and cultural power. Maybe Putin took that risk because he knows after four or eight years of Trump we will be surrendering that status.

[shraby]

39. How do we even know the emails weren't jazzed up for our consumption???

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Putin installed a fascist as president.

It is an affront to every marginalized person who will be the victim of his hate.

[KittyWampus]

12. Because Russia is also interfering in England, France and Germany.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

13. Russia/Putin initiated this act of war - it was not "we" - this is worse than 9-11

[RonniePudding]

20. Thanks, comrade

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

44. Russia doesn't have elections

And since when does the "well we did the same thing to them" argument apply to our nation? Should we start letting Daesh fly drones around and launch air strikes on American soil?

[Hoyt]

59. Who told you Russia doesn't have elections?

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

61. Do you actually believe that Russia's elections aren't 100% rigged?

They can't be called elections if they're a ceremonial farce.

[Hoyt]

65. No more than ours.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

67. okay comrade

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/09/daily-chart-12

[Renaissance Man]

10. This is not rehashing the Cold War.

Understand that Vladimir Putin is former KGB. There are strategic areas in Eastern Europe that Vladimir Putin would no more than love to control. Those strategic areas are American interests.

Does anyone remember when Trump was making outrageous statements about wanting the United States to withdraw from NATO and make the other countries that are party to that agreement to shoulder more of the responsibility in NATO?

Now, just this morning, he chooses the ExxonMobil CEO (someone that's a close friend of Putin) as Secretary of State? Along with appointing so many military generals to cabinet posts.

A coup is happening right in front of our eyes, unless we get up off of our asses and do something about it.

[kentuck]

14. Unfortunately...

Right on target.

[Hoyt]

31. There are strategic areas we have been trying to control for decades. Sorry, I don't buy the "coup"

theory. I don't believe Russia hacking the DNC did any real damage to us in the election. Now Comey, that's a different story.

[KittyWampus]

48. They are related.

[AngryAmish]

53. Come is in the KGB?

That is news.

[world wide wally]

50. Then why did they only leak Dem. Emails if there would be no effect?

[leftofcool]

51. How do you know? I suppose you have seen the classified evidence?

Please enlighten us with your great knowledge of material that Democrats have been requesting from Obama for 2 months.

[Hoyt]

57. How do you know? It's an opinion and you have no facts to rebut with anything but

your opinion.

Do you think we should bomb the Ruskies because they supposedly hacked some emails.

[hollowdweller]

15. When will they say it? The GOP puts party over country???????????????????????????????????

Gov't shutdowns over spending while they spent like drunken sailors when Bush was in.

Obama crafting proposals based on stuff they had proposed in the past and then having them oppose it because it came from him.

Inviting Netanyahu to speak to congress against the president trying to undermine foreign policy.

Saying Putin was a better leader than Obama???? Not just Trump did that.

Finally, keeping the lid on Russia trying to throw the election just because they might be able to get more votes??

The Dems are being handed a golden opportunity on a platter here as far as messaging.

[SHRED]

23. Both parties have

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028349785

[TheFrenchRazor]

60. Party Uber Alles!!! they are TRAITORS to the american people. end of story. nt

[Generator]

22. And it's so hard to not say

to someone that is the father of a friend that is 90! and was in WW2 and voted Trump-is this what you fought for and watched people die for Russia and neo-Nazi's in the white house? And yes I know we were with Russia on WW2 but we had that whole cold war thing as I remember. OH AND PUTIN is a scumbag dictator that kills journalists and outlaws gays. COME ON AMERICA this is treason.

[think]

24. How about waiting for the facts & then draw logical conclusions after weighing the evidence?

[RoccoR2]

26. if you are not with us, then you are against us

where have I heard that one before?

[sarisataka]

32. My thought exactly

Funny for how much we say there is a difference between parties, much of what is being proposed is exactly what was predicted the other side would do if the election ended with a Hillary win.

[MadDAsHell]

28. "United States of" America. nt

[underpants]

29. What is this RUSSIA?

I stand with America dammit!!!

[roamer65]

34. I am against a former KGB Russian dictator meddling in our elections.

I am against the tyranny of Putin. In Russia and here in the USA.

[enid602]

35. Putin

Russia is a third rate country with a declining GDP, declining per capita incomes and declining population and life expectancy. They spend a lot on military and nuclear, but have no economic power. Normally, I would laugh off a third world country's attempt to affect our elections. But I am concerned about Putin. For the last several years, he's headed up and spoken for the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) countries, whose sole purpose is to replace the US Dollar as the world unit of reserve. Putin figures that if the world rejects the Dollar, foreign countries, international bankers and wealthy foreigners will no longer have a need for their dollars, which will then go home. Considering that 90% of US Dollars are currently outside the US, our economy will melt once they come home. This would be the ultimate payback for a Russian Despot who had to witness the meltdown of his own empire some 25 years ago.

[sarisataka]

36. 'murica!

Hell yeah!




*I hope that is what you were going for. Too much?*

[kentuck]

41. Yes.

We are trying to prevent our government from going full-bore fascist. We may be too late, It's more than a simple nationalistic slogan. Don't look at the tree - look at the forest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Let's stipulate the allegation of Russian interference in our election is correct.

How can you as a man or woman of the left countenance a foreign nation interfering in our election to help elect a man who has called Mexicans "drug dealers, rapists and thieves", threatened to ban Muslims from the United States, bragged about sexually assaulting women, threatened to imprison dissenters, and promised to weaken libel laws when it comes to public figures.

[sarisataka]

52. Given that stipulation

Remedy it through the Constitutional process. As the Constitution is silent on such things then it would fall to the Supreme Court to make the ruling.

If the court grants the executive the power to take action to correct the legislative branch then I would be fine with that. Two of the branches are correcting an error in the third

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. The Electoral College should think hard about not appointing Clinton or Trump.

[sarisataka]

56. That is

A good idea. Unlikely, unfortunately, but good

[jO456]

46. Tax returns

I wonder if Donalds tax returns show he is heavily in debt to Russians.

[JI7]

47. Putin or America would be more accurate

[Dems to Win]

54. Which side are you on, FBI or CIA?

I have a memory of some pundit saying a couple months ago on the boob tube: "It's unusual in Washington to see the FBI and CIA on opposite sides of an election."

Anyone else have any memory of such talk? I've not had any luck finding anything with the google.

Now Harry Reid has come out swinging against the FBI, saying it covered up evidence of Russian interference in the election. It is the CIA now pushing this story today, and it was the former CIA director who so publicly endorsed Hillary before the election. It does seem like a big fight between the FBI and CIA -- my instinct is to say I'm on the side of neither.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/10/fbi-russia-trump-election-harry-reid-james-comey-wikileaks


I come down firmly on the side of NO to WWIII with Russia. I don't even know what that means as far as who is working toward this common sense goal.

Color me confused. Well, except I know Trump is a con man. Not confused about that.

[roamer65]

58. CIA.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I have read about both agencies.

It seems the FBI has a lot more hard right wing types.