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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:38 PM

 

If you are against porn, you are anti-woman

If you believe porn is wrong, then you believe a woman's sexual expression is wrong.

You believe that the human body is wrong.

You believe that our genitalia is a mistake.



If you believe porn is wrong, then you believe James Joyce is wrong. You believe Shakespeare is wrong.




To me, being anti-porn is no different than being anti-vagina.

Accept it, the human being is a sexual being.

We have sex.

We like to have sex.

We like to watch sex.

If you don't like watching sex, don't.


You can come up with a million reasons why porn is evil, but it all goes back to you. You, have a problem with sex. And you are no different than the sexist lawmakers in Michigan.

You want to ban sexual expression.

You want to ban reality.

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Arrow 107 replies Author Time Post
Reply If you are against porn, you are anti-woman (Original post)
Taverner Jun 2012 OP
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #1
Taverner Jun 2012 #4
riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #16
obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #65
HuckleB Jun 2012 #106
bluestateguy Jun 2012 #2
mythology Jun 2012 #23
Evergreen Emerald Jun 2012 #3
Taverner Jun 2012 #5
Cali_Democrat Jun 2012 #6
Taverner Jun 2012 #8
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #7
Taverner Jun 2012 #9
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #19
cliffordu Jun 2012 #33
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #43
sendero Jun 2012 #69
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #104
msongs Jun 2012 #10
Taverner Jun 2012 #12
sadbear Jun 2012 #11
Taverner Jun 2012 #13
sadbear Jun 2012 #18
FiveGoodMen Jun 2012 #31
Lionessa Jun 2012 #42
seabeyond Jun 2012 #39
Control-Z Jun 2012 #58
Lionessa Jun 2012 #44
sadbear Jun 2012 #49
Lionessa Jun 2012 #52
sadbear Jun 2012 #53
Lionessa Jun 2012 #56
Control-Z Jun 2012 #76
limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #14
cliffordu Jun 2012 #40
RZM Jun 2012 #50
limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #66
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #15
Skittles Jun 2012 #17
Old and In the Way Jun 2012 #20
fishwax Jun 2012 #41
Old and In the Way Jun 2012 #60
Whisp Jun 2012 #21
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2012 #24
Whisp Jun 2012 #29
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2012 #35
Whisp Jun 2012 #57
LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #28
BlueToTheBone Jun 2012 #22
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2012 #25
FedUpWithIt All Jun 2012 #26
Fla_Democrat Jun 2012 #27
LeftyMom Jun 2012 #34
Fla_Democrat Jun 2012 #62
LeftyMom Jun 2012 #67
leftstreet Jun 2012 #48
Fla_Democrat Jun 2012 #61
MineralMan Jun 2012 #30
Zoeisright Jun 2012 #32
seabeyond Jun 2012 #36
kwassa Jun 2012 #37
cyberswede Jun 2012 #68
Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #38
cliffordu Jun 2012 #46
Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #82
LeftyMom Jun 2012 #94
cliffordu Jun 2012 #98
fishwax Jun 2012 #45
tabatha Jun 2012 #47
DevonRex Jun 2012 #51
Chorophyll Jun 2012 #54
Control-Z Jun 2012 #72
Chorophyll Jun 2012 #78
Whisp Jun 2012 #85
Chorophyll Jun 2012 #99
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #55
apocalypsehow Jun 2012 #59
MindMover Jun 2012 #63
obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #64
Solly Mack Jun 2012 #70
Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #71
Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #73
dionysus Jun 2012 #74
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #75
seabeyond Jun 2012 #80
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #90
tkmorris Jun 2012 #83
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #87
seabeyond Jun 2012 #93
tkmorris Jun 2012 #95
seabeyond Jun 2012 #97
cali Jun 2012 #77
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #91
Shankapotomus Jun 2012 #79
MichiganVote Jun 2012 #81
Fozzledick Jun 2012 #84
MichiganVote Jun 2012 #86
Fozzledick Jun 2012 #89
MichiganVote Jun 2012 #92
Fozzledick Jun 2012 #96
geek tragedy Jun 2012 #88
DURHAM D Jun 2012 #100
DURHAM D Jun 2012 #101
Cali_Democrat Jun 2012 #102
DURHAM D Jun 2012 #103
Rex Jun 2012 #105
ithinkmyliverhurts Jun 2012 #107

Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:39 PM

1. lame

these pro and anti porn arguments are becoming equally lame. i might even say that this particular pro porn arguments is lamer than the usual anti-porn arguments. didn't think that was even possible

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:42 PM

4. So do you think sexual expression is wrong?

 

Give me a reason why my argument is lame, if you could

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:57 PM

16. +1. A new low. nt

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:05 PM

65. +1

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:12 PM

106. +1

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:40 PM

2. ...walking away from the ten foot pole....

sloooowly.....

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:02 PM

23. I know most of us guys exaggerate

but I don't think anybody is going to believe that you have a ten foot pole to touch this with.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:41 PM

3. that is pretty good typing for only using one hand.

:0

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Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:42 PM

5. Oooh ooooh snarky comment! You win!

 

Because obviously logic loses when snark takes place!



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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:44 PM

6. oh boy

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 PM

8. Yeah. I know. Despite your opinion you gotta admit I "stepped in it"

 

But it's hard to conceal your beliefs.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 PM

7. looking at too much porn is not good for a person.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 PM

9. Yes, because masturbation is TOXIC!!!

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

19. no becuase it can give you a unrealistic idea of sex and what a person should look like.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:15 PM

33. You are SOOOOOO wrong about this.

Sorry.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:23 PM

43. For some people not all. Some people por does not have any adverse effects to them. But...

...others who are not mature enough sexually it can be harmful in ways. I would not ban it.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:24 PM

69. How is it different than...

... any movie? Many movies are filled with 99th percentile in the looks department people. How is porn different?

It isn't.

Face it, sex in most porn is "idealized" to the male point of view, since males make up 99% of their audience. Only a moron would think that most porn is realistic in any way, any more than any other kind of film is actually realistic. It is FANTASY, like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. It is not real, and everyone knows it.

These sorts of arguments are really lame, they act as though viewers of pornography are idiots. It's really the other way around.

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Response to sendero (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:18 AM

104. Look people can handle porn. I agree but for some it causes...

...issues. I am not saying stop porn.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:47 PM

10. videos of ppl having sex good/bad kinda depends on context and consent IMO

2 people going for it for fun and recording versus unwilling participants who are in it for desperate reasons or being abused in the process. I can watch numerous other animals making it on PBS every week but nobody screams porn about that.

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Response to msongs (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:48 PM

12. Keyword, "consent"

 

But if there is a problem with abuse, it's the ABUSE that's the problem

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:48 PM

11. Seems a bit extreme

There is a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding surrounding porn. But I believe those against porn have their hearts in the right place. They just don't know what the hell they're talking about.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:51 PM

13. I don't. I think their hearts are right where their preacher/rabbi/imam wants them

 

Hating ourselves, hating our bodies, hating our genitalia.

Consider how many religions have pushed a "virgin birth" (it's not just Christianity)

This is a hatred of women

They hate the fact that a woman can pleasure herself and have no need of a man

They hate the fact that a man can pleasure himself and have no need of a woman

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Response to Taverner (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:58 PM

18. Ehh...

I just know that I experience a little cognitive dissonance every time I enjoy some good porn because I know while I like it very much, I wouldn't want my daughter anywhere near that profession. Hypocrisy? Maybe.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:13 PM

31. Just for what it's worth...

If I had a kid (boy or girl) I really wouldn't want them to become a tightrope walker because I'd be so afraid of what might happen to them.

But I wouldn't be ashamed to watch someone else walk a tightrope.

Maybe that's relevant, maybe not.

Food for thought.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:23 PM

42. Beat me to it.

 

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Response to sadbear (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:21 PM

39. I wouldn't want my daughter anywhere near that profession. Hypocrisy? Maybe.

maybe? honest anyway. nor would most all fathers. and then there are the few that would cheer the daughter on..... meh

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:50 PM

58. And the ones

who might participate. And now we've devolved into tragic, abusive, pornography.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:24 PM

44. What about your son? Would you feel the same?

 

Another angle, what if your daughter just really enjoys sex, isn't in porn, but beds a different guy every night, and loves it. Then what? Is that okay? Or is it truly that you think your daughter shouldn't enjoy sex more than "society" allows for women?

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #44)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:29 PM

49. Same for my son, too.

As for my daughter enjoying sex, I'm going to let her enjoy her childhood first. She's 12 and I'm not quite ready to think about her "bedding a different guy every night." You see, her mother and I both really enjoy sex, but each of us have only had one other partner. So I don't necessarily see the connection between really enjoying sex and bedding a different partner every night. So no, I guess that's not okay with me. But that has little to do with porn, IMO.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #49)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:33 PM

52. Well sounds like you're pretty pre-determined to decide for her what is okay and what's not,

 

rather than allowing her to enjoy sex on her terms.

Again, if it were your son, would being "a stud" bother you as much as having "a slut" for a daughter? Or conversely, and hopefully, would you be equally proud of both for allowing themselves sexual freedom.

She's 12? Most girls from the studies I've read are already sexually active at that age, don't think about it too much longer. I hear they have all decided that oral and anal isn't really sex, so they seem to have a lot of that in those younger years. Good luck!

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:36 PM

53. Forgive my asking,

but do you have children?

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Response to sadbear (Reply #53)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:40 PM

56. Yes, and I'm very proud of my daughter.

 

And get in regular arguments with my son about her sexual preferences because he's quite a sexist when it comes to sex.

I never enjoyed sex. She does. That's great. Whatever she's doing, it's working for her, wish I had been able to relax enough about sex to do the same. Glad I was able to end a family legacy of women never being sexually satisfied.

Both are grown.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:55 PM

76. I think you are way off base, Lionessa.

You know nothing about sadbear's daughter, or him it appears, and yet you school him in sexual parenting? It is obvious that the subject makes you angry. I'm sure you have your reasons but it's no excuse to jump all over a man who seems to be rather reasonable.

From the little he has said, it sounds like he and his wife will do better than most parents. The fact that they enjoy sex so much and are not ashamed by it says a lot. And since there is a mother involved I would guess their daughter stands a pretty good chance of having healthy sexual experiences as well (without necessarily bedding a new man every night). Can't you congratulate him on what actually is a pretty open mind?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:53 PM

14. I would agree with you if it were all volunteer work.

But people are compelled to work in that industry because they need the money and waitressing doesn't cut it.

It's the worst kind of exploitation, where the person's body is the actual commodity.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:22 PM

40. Hmm......

I was a bouncer in a nightclub.

I made big money. I needed it. I was exploited nightly for my physical gifts and a penchant for counterpunching rather well.

I believe facing mutilation and blunt force trauma (or worse) is the worst type of exploitation.

YMMV.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:31 PM

50. That's not porn's fault. It's waitressing's fault

 

A lot of jobs don't cut it. Porn is one option for some people (very few, when you count them all up). The drug trade is an option for others. And bouncing nightclubs, and delivering pizzas, and whatever the hell else.

That's the not the fault of porn. The fault lies with the fact that it's tough to make a decent living in the service industry. Your post seems like more of an indictment of the service industry than the porn industry.

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Response to RZM (Reply #50)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:09 PM

66. There is just something different about having sex for money,

Partly because of the history of exploitation in the sex industry. Partly because of the history of a male dominant world in general.

Partly just imagine being out of money with no real options and being compelled to have sex for money despite not wanting to. The same is true for pizza delivery I guess, but I just think this is something that nobody should have to do, because sex is different than delivering pizza somehow, or different than being a stripper even. It just violates more.

I'm not suggesting to outlaw it. But I don't see any reason to celebrate the porn industry without thinking about this other side of the equation.

What you said I agree with, people should be able to make a decent living without resorting to porn.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:54 PM

15. Given white trade

Child abuse, and a few other things, including slavery are part of well porn.

Now if you mean movies, as long as people follow safe practices and are willing adults...

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:58 PM

17. one extreme to the other

REALITY is actually somewhere in the MIDDLE

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

20. Somewhere between you and the History of Women

Is where most of DU falls. Just wanted to tag this for easy reference. Good luck!

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:22 PM

41. do you mean History of Feminism?

I kept reading that line, thinking I must be missing something quite deep, until I figured out that you probably meant the HOF group on DU.

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Response to fishwax (Reply #41)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:57 PM

60. You are correct, I'm embarassed to admit.

I wrote, thought, "is that right?", and promptly convinced myself it was. Should have checked.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

21. lol. what a thoroughly stupid OP

no one wants to take your pron away, Taverner. settle down, plug in that DVD and enjoy, no one cares.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:03 PM

24. Some may WANT to

It's not going to happen.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:08 PM

29. maybe his dog wants to take his pron away

so the poor thing can get fed once in a while.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:18 PM

35. Or his neighbor

KEEP IT DOWN YOU PERV!

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:47 PM

57. maybe the neighbour thinks it's the dog making those noises...

o, I didn't want to go there! bleach please!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:08 PM

28. exactly, unless kiddy porn is involved, that i wish

Would disappear completely.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

22. Worse than lame. n/t

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:04 PM

25. Let it go, dude(n/m)

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:06 PM

26. ...

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:06 PM

27. What if it's gay porn?

Are you against women, if there are no women in the film/dvd/photo?






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Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:18 PM

34. I once saw somebody on DU try to argue that gay porn was still oppressing women somehow.

I'll see if I can find the post.

edit: Found it. Decided not to post a link because it's not fair to poke fun at the mentally ill, and the offender is TS'd anyhow.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:02 PM

62. Wow, I hope they were funnin

but, maybe not.








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Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:13 PM

67. I found the posts.

I had forgot who made them and now I wish I hadn't brought them up, because I suspect mental illness.

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Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:28 PM

48. When people say 'porn' it's usually code for 'naked women'



You ask a good question but no one is going to answer it

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #48)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:00 PM

61. Then you get into the whole CFNM

and it kinda goes haywire. Come to think about it.. there is a woman (or several women, depending on the video) in CFNM..

Oh well, I better stop asking stuff, before rule 34 kicks in, and all the addendum that go with it.









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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:13 PM

30. Not really. Sexual expression is something

individuals do with other individuals, in most cases. It's not something that most people do so others can watch. That's something else...

I'm ambivalent about pornography. I don't use it, myself, so I don't have enough direct information about what it represents, in general, to make broad statements about it.

Yours is a very broad statement. It's also very likely to be incorrect in some ways, as are most generalizations.

However, if your goal was to provoke, I'm sure you'll succeed. But, what's the point of that, really?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:14 PM

32. Buh-bye.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:19 PM

36. bah hahahahahah. luv ya tav, but this one

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:19 PM

37. If you are against porn, you are probably pro-women.

Porn is only wrong in that it doesn't accurately reflect healthy sexual relationships.

It isn't wrong because it shows sex, or because it shows sex explicitly. It is wrong because it shows a distorted view of sex predicated on male fantasies of female sexuality that have no basis in actual sexual reality, at least for most of the population. It does serve to stimulate men in a visual way as a tool for masturbation. It is wrong because the sex shown is essentially unreal, and exploitative of women as objects rather than persons.

Then there is the problem with the industry itself, and the exploitation of the actresses that work in it. Many of them have emotional and/or substance abuse, or financial difficulties that lead them into this profession.

What I find on DU, repeatedly, is the insistence by male posters that to be anti-porn is to be anti-sex, when in fact to be anti-porn, in most instances, it to be anti-fake-sex and anti-real emotional relationship with another human being.

Speaking as a male poster.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:23 PM

68. Good post. nt

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:19 PM

38. Porn caters mainly to MEN. It doesn't celebrate women; it sells visuals of their body parts.

I've seen documentaries of women in the porn business. It is without a doubt a sad way for a woman to earn a living, from a woman's point of view.

Women don't get rich in porn. They don't expand their minds, become more valuable to society. Their porn work is not celebrated upon their death.

Women don't get into porn by design. It's because that's what left to them after failing at something else, or because they're troubled, or even because they were kidnapped and enslaved.

Porn involves not just women, but children, both female and male.

You are sorely lacking in knowledge about the porn business and what it does to its victims: the people who sell, or are forced to sell, visuals of their body parts.

It's all about getting money from men based on their love of visuals of gentialia of women and children.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:26 PM

46. I can send you links to sites that are owned and run by women and their

partners - they film themselves and put them on the internet.

They are pornographic in that they are explicit, but these are committed couples doing this from the comfort of their own home.

Is this any different?

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #46)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:09 PM

82. There are always exceptions. But w/o men who want visuals of female genitalia, porn would

not exist.

Any business that includes trafficking in child abuse and making money from it...that says something about that business. And it is a business. It caters to men, mainly.

Consider that most criminals, esp. murderers, and esp. serial killers, are avid porn users, and you get an idea of where porn can lead.

Not that most people who watch or read porn end up killing people. It's just that most people who murder people or sexually assault people are avid watchers/readers of it. That, too, tells you something about that business. And it is a BUSINESS that makes money off from exploiting women's and children's body parts.

As Ted Bundy put it:
Ted: Before we go any further, it is important to me that people believe what I'm saying. I'm not blaming pornography. I'm not saying it caused me to go out and do certain things. I take full responsibility for all the things that I've done. That's not the question here. The issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior.

JCD: It fueled your fantasies.

Ted: In the beginning, it fuels this kind of thought process. Then, at a certain time, it is instrumental in crystallizing it, making it into something that is almost a separate entity inside.

JCD: You had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life, with printed material, photos, videos, etc., and then there was the urge to take that step over to a physical event.
Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement, until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far.

Ted: Once you become addicted to it, and I look at this as a kind of addiction, you look for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement, until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far - that jumping off point where you begin to think maybe actually doing it will give you that which is just beyond reading about it and looking at it.

JCD: How long did you stay at that point before you actually assaulted someone?

Ted: A couple of years. I was dealing with very strong inhibitions against criminal and violent behavior. That had been conditioned and bred into me from my neighborhood, environment, church, and schools.
I knew it was wrong to think about it, and certainly, to do it was wrong. I was on the edge, and the last vestiges of restraint were being tested constantly, and assailed through the kind of fantasy life that was fueled, largely, by pornography.

JCD: Do you remember what pushed you over that edge? Do you remember the decision to "go for it"? Do you remember where you decided to throw caution to the wind?

Ted: It's a very difficult thing to describe - the sensation of reaching that point where I knew I couldn't control it anymore. The barriers I had learned as a child were not enough to hold me back from seeking out and harming somebody.

JCD: Would it be accurate to call that a sexual frenzy?

Ted: That's one way to describe it - a compulsion, a building up of this destructive energy. Another fact I haven't mentioned is the use of alcohol. In conjunction with my exposure to pornography, alcohol reduced my inhibitions and pornography eroded them further.

JCD: After you committed your first murder, what was the emotional effect? What happened in the days after that?

Ted: Even all these years later, it is difficult to talk about. Reliving it through talking about it is difficult to say the least, but I want you to understand what happened. It was like coming out of some horrible trance or dream. I can only liken it to (and I don't want to overdramatize it) being possessed by something so awful and alien, and the next morning waking up and remembering what happened and realizing that in the eyes of the law, and certainly in the eyes of God, you're responsible. To wake up in the morning and realize what I had done with a clear mind, with all my essential moral and ethical feelings intact, absolutely horrified me.

JCD: You hadn't known you were capable of that before?

Ted: There is no way to describe the brutal urge to do that, and once it has been satisfied, or spent, and that energy level recedes, I became myself again. Basically, I was a normal person.
I was a normal person. I had good friends. I led a normal life, except for this one, small but very potent and destructive segment that I kept very secret and close to myself.

Ted: I wasn't some guy hanging out in bars, or a bum. I wasn't a pervert in the sense that people look at somebody and say, "I know there's something wrong with him." I was a normal person. I had good friends. I led a normal life, except for this one, small but very potent and destructive segment that I kept very secret and close to myself. Those of us who have been so influenced by violence in the media, particularly pornographic violence, are not some kind of inherent monsters. We are your sons and husbands. We grew up in regular families. Pornography can reach in and snatch a kid out of any house today. It snatched me out of my home 20 or 30 years ago. As diligent as my parents were, and they were diligent in protecting their children, and as good a Christian home as we had, there is no protection against the kinds of influences that are loose in a society that tolerates....

http://www.tldm.org/news6/bundy.htm

Every second, a child or woman in the U.S. is sexually assaulted. It's usu. done by a man who frequently views porn.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #82)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:31 PM

94. That's nonsense. Gay porn exists. In fact, it's a huge industry.

And the target market consists of people who don't want to look at naked women AT ALL.

Your argument is ignorant at best.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #82)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:45 PM

98. Uh......I am too tired to adequately display my disgust

that you would use Bundy for an argument against porn.

If what you posit here was correct, there would be MILLIONS of bundys out there.

There most certainly are not.

Bundy was a sexual psychopath. Because he blamed porn for his psychopathology matters not one whit in the real world.

Your last sentence is patently false.

It would be more truthful to say that most people who sexually assault others drink alcohol.

Almost all of them have driver's licenses. Many have pets.

See?? Anyone can play!!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:25 PM

45. one can be "against porn" (which can mean many different things) w/o being any of that

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:28 PM

47. Laying down the rules, heh?

The experience of humans on this planet is extremely varied and rich and complex.

You cannot see that.

Your logic is false, and your "if A then B" statements are extremely narrow.

I think you are making excuses for yourself, because you cannot appreciate the opinions of others.



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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:31 PM

51. Dude, ever think about anything else?

Spice up your conversation a bit. And your life. Read a book with words that have more than 4 letters that is not about porn or sex.

Then tell us all about it. Because that might be interesting. Other people's sex lives? Pure snooze fest. Just like other people's respiratory rates and bathroom habits.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:36 PM

54. Blanket statements like this don't help your argument.

For one thing, some porn features only men. So if I don't like it, I'm anti-woman?

Some porn is lovely. Some is dag-nasty. It's kind of subjective.

But for sure some of it objectifies the crap out of women, and denies their desire and their agency. My being aware of this does not make me "against" all porn, and it sure doesn't make me anti-woman.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:43 PM

72. Nicely put, Chorophyll.

A rather exceptional post.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:58 PM

78. Well hey! Thank you.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:17 PM

85. Log Jammin' with Karl Hungus

academy award material I am sure.

I think the worst part about porn (the 'normal' consenting adult ones where no one is drugged or threatened, or forced to choke on semen, etc.,) are the lame assed scripts.

I haven't seen any for a long time but that is the impression I am left with - I don't remember parts smooshing together or any of that, but the ridiculous low brow script.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #85)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:48 PM

99. Yeah. Ingmar Bergman it ain't.

"Did you order pizza with extra sausage?"
"Yes! And so did my friend!"

That's okay -- no one's watching it for the brilliant writing or acting. Which is fine.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)


Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:51 PM

59. Hah-hah....(*cackles*)... This oughta be fun!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:03 PM

63. Watching pornography is having an affair with yourself.....

and when you are having an affair with yourself, you diminish/weaken/lessen other real human contact relationships....

and you hurt all other real human relationships when watching pornography....

it is a vicious circle of deceit....self deceit.....

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:03 PM

64. Posting

To stay off a jury on this one.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:29 PM

70. I saw this and took a guess that your other thread on the topic got locked. So I went looking.

I was right.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:29 PM

71. I am gay.

I kinda of feel like my stances on pornography one or another have very little effect on women.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:46 PM

73. It's people like you that keep me coming to this site. nt

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:50 PM

74. yes, because artful films with titles like "Cum Dupsters Vol. 5" are pro woman.

you just jetpacked over the shark.. badly....


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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:55 PM

75. Thank goodness men are here to tell us muddle-headed females what to think

otherwise we would get it all wrong on our own.

Quick, tell us what we're supposed to think about birth control too!

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #75)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:59 PM

80. lmfao



ya. cause i cannot figure it out on my own.

hey woman... good seein' ya.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #80)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:25 PM

90. Hey you!

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #75)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:10 PM

83. It isn't "men" telling you what to think, it's Taverner

I like to think I am a man as well, and I find this OP to be pretty damned stupid. Don't imagine for one second that the point of view expressed in it is in any way typical amongst all men. It isn't.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #83)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

87. I know. I just find his assertion

as genuinely befuddling and insulting as the all-male GOP hearings on birth control. I appreciate your candor and clarity.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #83)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:30 PM

93. true that. and dont ever stop reminding us. but, i think most know and love tav and get that

this is really, all about him. did your wife give you my message. that was my bad. and i know i have been forever confused with you two. well, i thought you were one. gonna TRY to do better on that.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #93)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:39 PM

95. Yeah she showed it to me.

No worries, we share everything anyway so there really isn't a whole lot of difference between us in what we post. Except maybe her love of Genealogy. I try to help but all those endless lists of birth and death records just make my eyes go all swimmy.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #95)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:42 PM

97. isnt that a hoot....

hubby and i do to. makes everything really easy. and he is the geneology dude. i love what he finds. he has found some good stuff that knocked his father off his feet. i kinda appreciated it, lol. but, ya. us too. makes no worries.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:57 PM

77. what codswallop.

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Response to cali (Reply #77)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:28 PM

91. You win the internets for the day.

"codswallop"

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:58 PM

79. 1. There is a difference between

porn and sex. You can be against porn but not against sex.

2. Porn is the selling of sex. Porn actors are paid to sell sex to people they would otherwise not have sex with.

So I'll ask you a question: how do you feel about a person who sells their vote?

Or someone who sells their love to the highest bidder?

Are those actions wrong or do you see nothing wrong with those acts of selling oneself either?

3. If you're arguing that sex is not wrong, you're right. When engaged in by the wrong people, it's just dumb.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:04 PM

81. Said the 14 year old to himself in the mirror while Moms and Pops are out shopping.

Come on really? Really? Porn is a business and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's sexual expression. We're not talking Manet or Picasso here. Nice that you bought the line of the porn marketing though. Good luck with that.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #81)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:17 PM

84. Not Manet or Picasso? Really?




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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #84)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:19 PM

86. If you knew anything about these paintings and their history, you would not infer their intent/porn

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #86)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

89. OK, how about a little basic content analysis.

Let's start with Picasso's Sleeping Woman, shown above.

What does she have on her mind?

(Hint: it's on top of her head.)

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #89)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:29 PM

92. Ok, let's say you go to school to study Art History where you'll find these paintings are commonly

analyzed. And then ask you Art History professor when he/she is going to give a lecture on 'Daisy does Dallas' or whatever the current fav is.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #92)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:39 PM

96. What does popular entertainment have to do with it?

Eroticism has always been a major element of fine art, sometimes boldly explicit, other times subtly hidden for those with the insight to spot it.

Meanwhile, back to Picasso. Note that her hands have five non-thumb fingers, suggesting the blurred appearance of objects in motion.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

88. Erotica=good, porn=bad.

There is a difference, besides lighting.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)


Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:56 PM

101. Bumping

this has not been discussed enough.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #101)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:57 PM

102. LOL?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #102)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:15 AM

103. Why does this keep dropping?

We really need to have a discussion about porn.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:10 PM

105. Hate to say it but liking porn has nothing to do with liking women.

And you can hate porn and still be anti-woman or love porn and be anti-woman. It is this strange thing called free will. Gets to everyone eventually.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 03:17 PM

107. Just like my ol' granny used to say.

She'd say, "Boy, now if you don't like porn, well, that means you don't love your old granny. Now you want to love your old granny now, don'tcha, boy? Well, then go gettin and watchin' yourself some porn. Show granny you love her."

Am I right?

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