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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:13 PM

Gov Dean: No More Electing Dems who behave like Republicans- That's how we lost public option

Former Democratic National Committee chairman and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean said Tuesday that he wanted to see the left elect “real progressive Democrats” this fall at the Take Back the American Dream Conference, sponsored by the Campaign for America’s Future in Washington, D.C. “I’m not interested in electing Democrats who behave like Republicans once they’re elected. That’s how we lost the public option.”

Dean, who can still fire up a progressive crowd, spoke about the need to push for the president’s re-election this fall. The 2004 Democratic presidential candidate received a standing ovation when he said, “One of the reasons I’m supporting Barack Obama for re-election is I want two more Supreme Court justices like Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor.”

He warned against supporting Koch brothers-backed companies and fighting against the unlimited spending allowed by the Supreme Court’s Federal Election Commission v. Citizens United decision in 2010. “How many of you buy Brawny paper towels? Don’t do it. The Koch brothers make it,” he said. “America was not meant to be owned by corporations and I’ll be damned if I’m going to allow that to happen.”

MORE:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/19/dean-america-was-not-meant-to-be-owned-by-corporations/

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Reply Gov Dean: No More Electing Dems who behave like Republicans- That's how we lost public option (Original post)
kpete Jun 2012 OP
Woody Woodpecker Jun 2012 #1
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #3
newthinking Jun 2012 #63
brooklynite Jun 2012 #2
Zorra Jun 2012 #8
ieoeja Jun 2012 #18
brooklynite Jun 2012 #34
ieoeja Jun 2012 #36
kenfrequed Jun 2012 #101
Major Hogwash Jun 2012 #58
OneAngryDemocrat Jun 2012 #72
loyalsister Jun 2012 #78
bvar22 Jun 2012 #93
montanacowboy Jun 2012 #4
northoftheborder Jun 2012 #7
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #14
Raine1967 Jun 2012 #29
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #38
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #45
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #51
nxylas Jun 2012 #81
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #82
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #105
WinstonSmith4740 Jun 2012 #35
whathehell Jun 2012 #57
Citizen Worker Jun 2012 #59
October Jun 2012 #91
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #5
freshwest Jun 2012 #6
nineteen50 Jun 2012 #9
Jamaal510 Jun 2012 #10
zeemike Jun 2012 #15
Bluzmann57 Jun 2012 #92
ieoeja Jun 2012 #23
russspeakeasy Jun 2012 #11
MisterP Jun 2012 #12
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #13
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #16
sufrommich Jun 2012 #20
AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #31
bvar22 Jun 2012 #97
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #99
bvar22 Jun 2012 #100
HereSince1628 Jun 2012 #17
Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #19
Guy Whitey Corngood Jun 2012 #60
Kingofalldems Jun 2012 #85
newthinking Jun 2012 #67
treestar Jun 2012 #21
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2012 #22
ieoeja Jun 2012 #26
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2012 #28
ieoeja Jun 2012 #32
Cali_Democrat Jun 2012 #55
newthinking Jun 2012 #77
mazzarro Jun 2012 #24
ProSense Jun 2012 #25
abelenkpe Jun 2012 #30
catbyte Jun 2012 #27
Cary Jun 2012 #33
knitter4democracy Jun 2012 #37
Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #39
kpete Jun 2012 #70
Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #90
WillyT Jun 2012 #40
woo me with science Jun 2012 #41
MrTwister Jun 2012 #42
tru Jun 2012 #43
proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #44
nashville_brook Jun 2012 #46
One of the 99 Jun 2012 #47
MissDeeds Jun 2012 #48
progressoid Jun 2012 #49
McCamy Taylor Jun 2012 #50
flpoljunkie Jun 2012 #84
Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #52
SidDithers Jun 2012 #53
Chan790 Jun 2012 #62
dionysus Jun 2012 #65
newthinking Jun 2012 #68
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2012 #73
newthinking Jun 2012 #76
Marr Jun 2012 #104
jeff47 Jun 2012 #89
RainDog Jun 2012 #54
Blue Owl Jun 2012 #56
PufPuf23 Jun 2012 #61
ELI BOY 1950 Jun 2012 #64
Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #66
sakabatou Jun 2012 #75
herberto55 Jun 2012 #69
Canuckistanian Jun 2012 #71
DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #83
joshcryer Jun 2012 #74
donheld Jun 2012 #79
eridani Jun 2012 #80
datasuspect Jun 2012 #86
Janice7 Jun 2012 #87
emsimon33 Jun 2012 #88
raouldukelives Jun 2012 #94
bvar22 Jun 2012 #95
Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2012 #102
clang1 Jun 2012 #96
davidwparker Jun 2012 #98
bvar22 Jun 2012 #106
davidwparker Jun 2012 #111
B Calm Jun 2012 #103
L0oniX Jun 2012 #107
bobthedrummer Jun 2012 #108
Arkana Jun 2012 #109
Quantess Jun 2012 #110
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #112

Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:19 PM

1. Then stage a coup, Dean, and take back America

 

Bring out the bats, and we needs to start using 'em to beat the Blue Dogs out of our tent. The Blue Dogs has never belonged into the Democratic tent, and are far better off in a Rethuglican tent if they do not share the progressive ideals of the true Democratic Party.

There is no Third Way anymore. Either you're a Democrat or a Republican or just plain an idiot.

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Response to Woody Woodpecker (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

3. Unfortunately, the Third Way/Blue Dogs own the "not as bad" tent.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:41 PM

63. Anyone else notice the repeated new talking point in this thread?

What's this "Blue dogs are dean's fault" and why is it a short quip being repeated over and over all of a sudden?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

2. You tell me where they can get elected, and I'll support them.

If not, I'll go with the Democratic candidates that can.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

8. They maybe can get elected

where enough aware, intelligent people support them, instead of supporting the bankrolled candidates of the 1%.

Depends on the integrity of the voting system also.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:34 PM

18. District where I grew up voted Democratic most of the time.


Then Bill Clinton got elected and two things happened.

1. the Scary Looking Weapons Ban turned a lot of the electorate against Dems in general, and
2. local Democrats decided to emulate Clinton's electoral success.

Clinton famously spent almost as much time in 1992 running against the Democratic congress as he did against the incumbent GHW Bush. He was "not one of those Democrats" he reminded us time and time again. So Democrats in swing districts decided to copy his blueprint. And they began bashing Liberals and Democrats.

As a result those districts are no longer swing districts. Oh, they may elect a DINO from time to time. But a couple decades ago they used to swing between moderates from either side. Now they only elect Rightists. Because all the pols from both parties keep telling them how horrible non-Rightists are.

The district where I grew up is a perfect example of that as they rarely elect a Democrat nowadays. Only when the Repub fucks up. And that only ever seems to happen *after* the Democrats have already nominated a Rightist candidate for the next election.


More to the point, why do you want to win an election if you're just going to do what the other side wants once elected? The only reason I can see for that is pure selfishness: "I don't care what I do with the power, I just want the money and prestige that goes with that power."

We believe in what we believe. If the electorate disagrees, then we deserve to lose. That's the way democracy works. I don't mind losing. But at the moment we aren't even fucking trying.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:00 PM

34. Because getting 50% of what I want is better than getting 0%...

...which is what I'll get if the Democratic candidate is TOO left-wing for a moderate-conservative district, and a Republican wins instead.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:24 PM

36. You do realize that Republicans vote with Democrats over 50% of the time, don't you?


We focus on the differences, but the truth is we and they agree 90% of the time. So the difference AT THIS PRECISE MOMENT IN TIME is not that big a deal. Over time, however, the constant drift Right has been destroying this country. Or did you miss how this country went from one of the best standards of living 30 years ago to not even breaking the top 20 today?


What about districts that are not moderate-conservative? A lot of the Rightist Democrats come from moderate-left districts. A district just west of Chicago was narrowing and narrowing with each election. A few years back it was almost close enough to call for a recount. 2 years later the Republican incumbent was unprimaried while caught in a scandel.

With the Democratic candidate from 2 years previously leading the Republican incumbent in every poll, fucking Rahm Emmanuel poured money into a primary campaign and succeeded in installing a Rightwing "Democrat" as our nominee. As an outsider she was soundly defeated in the general. Two years later, without any outside DLC/BLUEDOG/THIRDWAY interference, the woman who was "TOO left-wing" ... defeated the Republican handily in the general election.


And then what about those who come from solidly left districts like Chicago? What is your excuse for a Mayor Daley who was a Rightwing wet dream? Even Bob Novak called Daley, "a Republican in all but name."

I am about as centrist in my personal politics as it comes. But I can see that they are trying to game the system so the far right gets 99% of what they want regardless of who wins in the general election.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:54 PM

101. Total agreement.

This is the way things hae been going for awhile. We really need to start primarying out Conservative Democrats.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:13 PM

58. Yeah, I have to agree with that.

The Democrats here in Idaho can't get anyone elected to Congress that agrees more than 50% or 60% with the Democratic party, so we wind up getting Republicans year in and year out.

Representative Walt Minnick was the last example we had in the House of a DINO, but he was 100 times better that Raul "Maddawg" Labrador!!!

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:40 PM

72. The Problem With Electing Democrats Who Vote With Republicans...

The problem with electing democrats who vote with Republicans is that you can't hold them responsible for their votes.

They're responsible to their constituients, not their fellow democrats.

That being the case, it makes more sense to let the seat fall to the GOP, then at least we can promote a progressive as a potential replacement, and maintain a bona fide democatic party agenda that's not going to be abandoned by a bunch of DINOs.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:49 AM

78. Yep, it's real easy to say that from the NE region

The south, midwest, and mountain states have very different voting blocs.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:30 AM

93. A FireBreathing Populist Democrat (a la Huey Long), who:

*comes out of nowhere

*looks like the Marlboro man

*can ride a horse and shoot a gun comfortably

*speaks in easy to understand, folksy American English,

*has Party Support and Party Money

*avoids the Wedge Issues

*runs on a simple platform of Economic Justice for Working Americans

*Stands his Ground unequivocally

*and repeats over and over,
"You know, Americans who have to go to WORK everyday have been getting SCREWED by the RICH for over 30 years. Now, MY Party has to take some of the blame for sending all our good jobs overseas, but if you elect ME, I intend to DO SOMETHING about that."

...can get elected ANYWHERE!

He doesn't have to say anything else.
In the debates or any interview,
ALL he has to do is repeat over and over,

"Well, I don't know about that,
but I DO know that Americans who have to Go to WORK everyday have been getting SCREWED by the RICH for over 30 years. Now, MY Party has to take some of the blame for sending all our good jobs overseas, but if you elect ME, I intend to DO SOMETHING about that!"


This man or woman can get elected ANYWHERE.
The key is Party Support and Party Money for TV ads.
Unfortunately, the owners of the Democratic party will make sure that his campaign is torpedoed with party Money in the early Democratic Primaries.
They WILL do to him/her exactly what they did to Dr Dean.

The LAST thing the Democratic Party wants is THIS man or woman receiving National Attention, or in a position of power.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

4. He was on Big Eddie last night

and he was tearing it up

We really lost something when they drummed Dean out - and it was the bastard blue dogs that did it.

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Response to montanacowboy (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:33 PM

7. Unfortunately, Obama campaign was part of the ignoring of all of Dean's hard work and efforts.

That's a fact. I'm very glad Dean didn't back off, but is still in there strong. I've always liked him.

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:23 PM

14. Wrong! The 50 State Strategy was Dean's and Obama worked that strategy to our advantage

However...

The bad news is that we had to elect less progressive Democrats in order to avoid a electing a wingnut Republican.

I love Dean, but he has to finally admit that while his 50 State Strategy was great for electing Democrats, it was also great for electing Blue Dogs and Corporatist Democrats, too!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:21 PM

29. ^^This^^

I really appreciate you saying that.

I am a big Dean supporter as well, but the reality is that we got so many Blue dogs because of the 50 state strategy.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:53 PM

38. What he has to admit is that the flaw in his strategy was in not working to reform the party's

 

structure and leadership at the state level. It is the state parties that determine who is allowed to run. Failing to flush the OG reagan Democrats from positions of power leads to these DINO's, not the will of the people.

Harry S. said it and it's still true today, "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time"

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:40 PM

45. Neither Dean nor Obama have admitted it, though. I love Howard Dean but I don't know how

he reconciles calling for a more progressive Democratic Party while, at the same time, touting a 50 state strategy. There aren't enough progressive Democrats in states like Nebraska or Arkansas to choose from. Then what?

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:29 PM

51. I don't agree. Progressive Democrats are plentiful in even the reddest of states, they are just

 

not courted nor allowed to get through the local hierarchy by the small-minded jerks that are more concerned with protecting their turf than in furthering the cause of progress. I've seen it first-hand over and over all over the west, in both blue and red states. The party is run by compromised, feather-nesters whose first and only concern is maintaining their own power.

We wouldn't win all the time, but at least there is a clear choice between candidates come election day. Then it's up to the voters at large.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:35 AM

81. Plus "more conservative" doesn't have to mean RINO

I suspect it has as much to do with image as anything. A candidate with tattoos and piercings who was into New Age spirituality would probably have an easier time getting elected in San Francisco than in Buttfuck, Idaho. That doesn't mean the candidate for Buttfuck, Idaho has to be a corporatist drone who believes that the 1% are paying too much in taxes. It just means that they have to appear more "normal", much as we may deplore the closed-mindedness of the electorate in that district.

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Response to nxylas (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:52 AM

82. Exactly The constant drum-beat of lies we are subjected to gets tiresome.

 

The notion that there are no liberal pillars of the community that will get the votes in Wichita, KS., for example, is such an obvious lie that it is insulting. The Party is the only reason we are left with a choice between corporate rep Tweedledee and insane corporate rep Tweedledum every two years.

We're not republicans, we can think and understand what is happening. Treating us like idiots doesn't inspire enthusiasm.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:04 PM

105. I actually agree with you on this. But the great progressives that are available typically

get drowned out by the money. We need to get rid of the money in our politics. Maybe then the Establishment Democrats won't be scared away by Republicans who typically have more money, so Democrats feel that they need to run a monied Democrat in order to win.

This issue is a lot more complicated than just going after progressives. We need to go after progressives who can WIN!!

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:09 PM

35. Absolutely right!

Howard Dean SHOULD be the Surgeon General right now...his 50 State Strategy is the big reason Republicans had to spend money in states they normally didn't have to worry about in 2008. However, he basically crossed swords with Rahm Emanuel, who spent most of his career pulling Democrats to the right, and creating the "Republican Lite" candidate. I understood that Obama wanted (and needed) that "pit bull" mentality as his Chief of Staff, but I really think that's when things started to crumble. I don't think we were even out of January 2009 when Emanuel threw the public option under the bus. He was on TV saying that the public option was not absolutely necessary in the health care bill. When you've got someone like that deciding who gets in to see the President, then all he gonna hear is conservative leaning rhetoric.

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:11 PM

57. Yes, and that's one of my least favorite things about this administration.

Dean is the man!

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Response to montanacowboy (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:18 PM

59. Excuse me but it was Obama who dumped Dean. That's when I knew we were in for a very tough ride.

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Response to montanacowboy (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:56 AM

91. Agree. Everyone went running, and he was the best momentum we'd had!

I hate how he's been so marginalized. For what? A scream that wasn't?

Stupid, stupid, stupid media and masses.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

5. kick for truth

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:23 PM

6. Thanks, Dr. Dean! More DFA action!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:04 PM

9. As long as their vote doesn't make a difference they vote liberal, when it will make a difference

they vote 1% er.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:05 PM

10. He's right.

Forget all these Centrist, GOP-lite policies. The Dems must move leftwards in order to balance out the right wingnuts and stir up passion from the base again. They've tried too hard to appease folks in the middle ever since * stole both of his elections.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:23 PM

15. It would have been a whole different thing if was Dean instead of Kary

Dean would not have conceded and likely had an Ohio recount...and forced the Chimp to once again openly steal it.
But that may not have even come up...Dean would have rallied people to the polls like Obama did....and so many things wold be different now with a President Dean.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:02 AM

92. We'll never know

Kerry (correct spelling) won the Democratic nomination in 2004 and the rest is history. You, me, nobody in here can say what Dean would or would not have done.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:48 PM

23. Dems took a strong Right turn with Clinton's election, not after *.


Clinton ran as "not one of those Democrats" and won. A lot of people thought they could copy his blueprint for success. Or, at least, that is the kind-hearted explanation.

A group in Australia claimed to be copying Clinton's tactics too. At some point it was discovered that this group was being funded by the same people who were funding the Australian Right. Australian's concluded this meant it was a front organization for the Right meant to mitigate any damage done by the political pendulum. When the Right wins, they get everything they want. When the Left wins, they get the most important things (the economic policy). So this group was discredited and drummed out of the party.

At which point many in the United States noted that the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) of which the Clintons were founding members were funded by the exact same people who are funding the Republican party. And we concluded that the DLC was very likely also a front organization. They represent the Right and are just pretending to be Left to ensure a win for the same economic masters regardless of which party gets elected.

Unfortunately, where this was a big story in the Australia media and outraged the electorate at these shenanigans, in the US it is mostly ignored and called a nutty conspiracy theory if it does get mentioned. I thing the Aussies might have outsmarted the Yanks on this one.

Of course, we have no DLC any more. But we do have Third Way and Blue Dogs. And I bet if we looked into their funding....


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:11 PM

11. He was caught in a sunami of "let's stay in the middle,

where it's safe". We know how that worked out. I would vote for him, I would donate to him, and I would work for him.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:12 PM

12. though if you read the whole article, it's just another case of "using activist and lefty language

to uncompromisingly support Business As Usual"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:21 PM

13. The fact of the matter is that democrats are allowed to vote for who they want in...

...the primaries. If you want to get your way then work harder to elect democrats that agree with you. Democrats are elected from all parts of the country and they all can't be liberal. It is a shame, but it is the truth.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:24 PM

16. Yep! Thanks!

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:38 PM

20. Republican gerrymandering is a big problem too. Republicans used it to

great success here in Michigan.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:37 PM

31. Corporate money is not used in the primaries? Diebold is not used in the primaries?

 

Democrats are allowed to vote for who they want in the primaries?

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:11 PM

97. Thats not really true.

SEE: Arkansas Democratic Primary, 2010.

We did everything right to replace Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln in the Democratic Primary.
We had Union support, the Grass Roots, and a very popular Pro-HealthCare, Pro-LABOR candidate,
Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter.

He was polling well against the virulently Anti-UNION, anti-HealthCare Blue Dog incumbent who was campaigning on I'm the one who derailed the "Big Government takeover of Health Care"!!

We did everything the White House asked us to do to "Elect More Progressives!"

Guess WHAT happened,
and Guess WHO we wound up fighting to "Elect More Progressives."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Obama White House!!!
They pulled out ALL the Stops to rescue Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln!
*An Oval Office Presidential Endorsement played over & over on local TV

*Funds from the DSCC

*the White House even sent the Old Dog (Bill Clinton) back home to Arkansas to drum up support for "the woman who wrecked ObamaCare".
Fundraisers and Rallies.

*After the White House had torpedoed the campaign of Pro-HealthCare/ Pro-UNION Bill Halter,
an "Anonymous White House Spokesperson" ridiculed Organized LABOR for "wasting $10Million Dollars" supporting a Pro-LABOR candidate in a Democratic Primary.

*Naturally, after being insulted and Steam Rolled by the White House, LABOR did NOT turn out for the Blue Dog Lincoln,
and she was soundly defeated by the Republican in the General Election.



If the Arkansas Primary was an anomaly,
I could write it off as the White House NOT paying attention.
But Arkansas was NOT unique.
This pattern of assisting Conservatives and even Republicans (see Pennsylvania and Florida Democratic Primaries) was repeated too many times in 2010 to be a mistake.

So, that naive nonsense about
"All you have to do is work to elect Progressives in Primaries"is Pollyanna Bull Shit.


The White House, The DSCC, the DCCC, the DNC, or ANY National Organization
has Absolutely NO Business interfering in local Democratic Primaries.
When they do so, it is ALWAYS to subvert the Will of the People!



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #97)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:29 PM

99. You have a point there.

But the dems in AR like in WV are much more conservative than nation wide.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #99)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:43 PM

100. A Fire Breathing Democratic Populist (a la Huey Long) can get elected in ANY Red State.

Especially if he:

*comes out of nowhere

*looks like the Marlboro man

*can ride a horse and shoot a gun comfortably

*speaks in easy to understand, folksy American English,

*has Party Support and Party Money

*avoids the Wedge Issues

*runs on a simple platform of Economic Justice for Working Americans

*Stands his Ground unequivocally

*and repeats over and over,
"You know, Americans who have to go to WORK everyday have been getting SCREWED by the RICH for over 30 years. Now, MY Party has to take some of the blame for sending all our good jobs overseas, but if you elect ME, I intend to DO SOMETHING about that."

...can get elected ANYWHERE!

He doesn't have to say anything else.
In the debates or any interview,
ALL he has to do is repeat over and over,

"Well, I don't know about that,
but I DO know that Americans who have to Go to WORK everyday have been getting SCREWED by the RICH for over 30 years. Now, MY Party has to take some of the blame for sending all our good jobs overseas, but if you elect ME, I intend to DO SOMETHING about that!"


This man or woman can get elected ANYWHERE.
The key is Party Support and Party Money for TV ads.
Unfortunately, the owners of the Democratic party will make sure that his campaign is torpedoed with party Money in the early Democratic Primaries.
They WILL do to him/her exactly what they did to Dr Dean.

The LAST thing the Democratic Party Establishment wants is THIS man or woman receiving National Attention, or actually holding a position of power.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:31 PM

17. A bully statement...congrats Howard...

too bad you've got next to nothing with which to back it up.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHhhhh!!!!!!

That makes me unhappy!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:36 PM

19. So, is he repudiating his 50 State Strategy, which caused the election of many moderate Democrats?

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:26 PM

60. Nah, he's probably calling on constituents to elect people who won't stab a Democratic president

in the back by blocking or diluting his agenda. After all, liberals pretty much voted for everything Obama put forward. It was your so called bought and paid for "grown ups" who made it harder for the president to push through the change he promised. It's hilarious how the center right hacks in the Democratic party only demand party loyalty from the left and not the right.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #60)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:21 AM

85. I know one thing: Republicans hate and fear Dean

and will attack him any chance they get.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:49 PM

67. Where is this "talking point" attack coming from???????

So now Dean is a bad guy and it is his fault that we have a "blue dog" problem. Where did this idea come from and why is it being spread with almost the same exact language from a number of different posters?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:39 PM

21. But then there would have been no health care plan at all

If there were Republicans there instead.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:48 PM

22. It was Dean's 50-State Strategy that helped us (finally!) regain Congress in 2006

OTOH his strategy also swept in a lot of the same kind of Dems- those from more conservative parts of the country- that he is apparently complaining about. Progressives are going to need to break into some of those more conservative states (i.e. West Virginia) and start organizing to help elect more progressive Dems that "really act like Dems". At the end of the day, however, a majority is still the majority regardless of the precise composition thereof IMHO and the voting records of most Blue Dog Dems are still largely pro-Democratic.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:59 PM

26. I'm thinking he made mistakes in execution.


Because when he sold us on the 50-State Strategy, he said we would be bringing a liberal, progressive message to all 50 states. In execution, I think he must have funded the local party assuming they mostly just needed funding to get their message out when in reality they were still following the DLC strategy of embracing the Rightist message.

I don't recall the DNC under Dean backing rightist candidates against liberals during Democratic primaries. They backed whomever won, but they did not interfere before that. Conversely, we saw Emanuel as DCCC head in 2006 and Dean's successors since he left the DNC do exactly that.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:14 PM

28. I think that Dean had the right idea

We should not be leaving stones unturned anywhere and it's frankly embarrassing that in some areas, Republicans run totally uncontested every election and where the only *choice* people get is in the primary. I think that we need to get candidates for as many races as possible and support them to whatever degree possible. Even if they lose, they will have made the Republicans spend some money somewhere they didn't have to worry about spending money before. As a party, we need to stop ceding territory to the Republicans by default and even when we are in the minority or locked in a fight that we (probably) can't win, we need to make the Republicans fight for every single inch of ground.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:38 PM

32. Absolutely agree. But we shouldn't just support anybody who claims to be a Democrat.


Republicans in Pennsylvania got embarrased recently when a White Supremicist gave himself a write-in vote for a state party committeeman during a primary in a district that had nobody running for that position. He was elected 1-0. Since it is a party position there is no general, and they are stuck with him.

In his final gubernatorial election Adlai Stephenson III was saddeled with a LaRouche Lt Governor nominee. Adlai ended up campaigning for his Republican opponent.

I really don't see these Third Way/Blue Dog/DLC types any different. We don't need 100% purity. But there is no reason to ever support a local candidate who does not support the national party. Since our Senator from West Virginia refuses to endorse Obama for President, I wouldn't give him one fucking penny. I used to be a $100/month sustaining member of the DNC and quit precisely because my money was going to support traitors like that.

11th Commandment according to Republicans: say nothing bad about your fellow party member.
11th Commandment according to DLC/BD/TW: get yourself elected over the bodies of your fellow party members.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:39 PM

55. Agreed

The 50-state strategy did lead to more conservative dems being elected.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:46 AM

77. What? "Blue Dogs" are not a phenomenon of the 50 state strategy

They came from the DLC, not the DNC. Third Way. They have been growing it for 15 years. Sure, Dean learned that he should not have enabled the Dino's that came along with the territory. But there are people in this forum trying to deflect the real cause of loss of momentum in the party. I think there is plenty of evidence that Dean is on the side of progressives.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:53 PM

24. Now, that's what I'm talking about!

Can anyone say that this is not the man wee need at the helm of the democratic party? Instead we get all these namby-pamby democrats that will not fight back or who will put some tepid fight like in Wisconsin!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:58 PM

25. Find better Democrats

The 50-State Strategy gave us three of these Senators:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=827686

McCaskill, Tester and Webb were elected in 2006.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:34 PM

30. +1000 nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:02 PM

27. Damn straight

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:40 PM

33. Words are cheap

No offense to Governor Dean but WE, THE PEOPLE have to speak loud and clear at the ballot boxes.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:50 PM

37. Dr. Dean speaks for me!

We can't out-Republican the Republicans, so we should just be true to ourselves as Dems.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:56 PM

39. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to kpete (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:20 AM

90. kpete

Thanks for the link.

peace to you, Uncle Joe

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:58 PM

40. K & R !!!


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:08 PM

41. Thank you, Howard Dean!

Please keep speaking for us! We need more of this!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:14 PM

42. That's also how we lost Wisconsin against Scott Walker.

 

The real Dem got pushed aside by the corporate Dem.

On edit--his organization, Democracy for America, is still around and very much alive. I sent them 50 bucks the other day, and I encourage DUers to chip in too.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:57 PM

43. Dean in 2016

 

I'd say Dean in 2012, but I know that isn't going to happen.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:57 PM

44. Yes!!!!!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:41 PM

46. the doctor speaks for me, as well.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:00 PM

47. Odd remarks coming from someone

who was one of the most conservative democratic governors in the '90s.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:01 PM

48. Huge K&R

Howard Dean 'gets it' and speaks for the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. Run, Howard, run!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:25 PM

49. And that's why they got rid of him.

He wouldn't kowtow to the neoliberals now running our party.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:28 PM

50. So, will Dr. Dean be personally bankrolling all the Dems who have to compete with SuperPac

funded Republicans? Campaign finance costs are the major reason Dems act like Republicans. Trying to get Dems to act better without campaign finance reform is like putting the cart before the horse.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #50)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:14 AM

84. Perhaps the Koch brothers and their ilk will get Dems to finally support public financing...

but I am not holding my breath. They evidently don't like a level playing field. The Fair Elections Act is repeatedly introduced in each Congress, but never seems to go anywhere. There are only 16 cosponsors in the Senate this session.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:h.r.01404:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:s.00750:

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:29 PM

52. A good sound bite, but it's naive. It's either Blue Dogs or Repubs in certain places.

In some places, lefties will NOT be elected. The choice is either a Blue Dog or a Republican. That's it.

Blue Dogs are frustrating, for sure. But they at least will vote for the Democratic Party bills most of the time. Even a moderate Republican won't do that.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:37 PM

53. Wasn't it Dr. Dean's 50 State strategy...

That helped so many blue dogs and centrist Democrats get elected in conservative districts? Those same blue dogs that "progressives" were happy to see lose in 2010?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #53)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:38 PM

62. 2010? I'd still be glad to see them out on their asses in 2012 or 2014...

provided we were ousting them in primaries to run real Democrats.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #53)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:46 PM

65. yes Sid, yes it was...

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #53)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:51 PM

68. And you determined this how?

What has there been an op ed recently is is this a new talking point? This thread is the first time I have seen this accusation and it seems to be coming on like it is ochestrated?

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Response to newthinking (Reply #68)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:48 PM

73. You know that there was a plan called "The 50 State Strategy"?

Right? That's what he called it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96956854

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/05/16/deans-50-state-strategy-for-the-democrats

Or are you asking if the "new talking point" is that we got saddled with some blue dogs? Because we absolutely did in some cases.

Is it his "fault"? No. Ultimately it was the failure of the party leaders to whip those dogs into shape. But it's a bit disingenuous to not accept that it lead to us getting stuck with some cowards in stupid districts that would never accept a true Democrat.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #73)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:35 AM

76. Good links by the way

I know about the strategy, but I have never heard people blame him personally for blue dogs in the party.

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Response to newthinking (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:22 PM

104. Neither have I, but they're all over this thread with the claim.

Those links were nothing but talk about how the 50-state strategy was working, and describing what it was. I've never heard people blame Dean for the DINO's in the party and really, those are usually the people these same "moderates" spend time making excuses for. So it's kind of an odd sales pitch.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:08 AM

89. Yes, but they aren't the problem

If it really is a conservative district, a liberal will have a very hard time winning. In those cases, it's better to have a blue dog than a Republican.

The problem is a lot of non-conservative districts are represented by blue dogs or Democrats who for various reasons aren't terribly helpful. Such as Feinstein and Lieberman (before he switched to the prima donna party).

You accept a blue dog only when you have no other realistic option. But we should not accept a blue dog when we have better options.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:38 PM

54. k&r n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:41 PM

56. K & R

K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:31 PM

61. Gov. Dean is walking a fine line.

Most of our Democratic leaders behave more like moderate Republicans than what I was lead to believe were the policies that were heart and soul of the Democratic Party.

Its not just that the corporations don't act in the interests of the American People (or World) but American corporate brands and ownership do not act in the best interests of the USA (or World peace and prosperity).

Edit:

PS The Democratic Party leadership conceded the public option early and IMHO any mention by our own Party was "happy talk" for public consumption.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:45 PM

64. He is so right!!!

The public option was SO IMPORTANT and we could not get it done...Senators who are not real democrats
need not apply...Joe Lieberman ...Cory Booker do you get the message...

and how about Rachel stating last night that Cory was mistaken...sad...as Mr. Dean says we don't need them...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:47 PM

66. Dean and Edwards, Edwards and Dean... 2016! nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:26 AM

75. Elizabeth Edwards?

That'd be a great ticket.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:00 PM

69. The New Democratic Coalition

I was just reading about The New Democratic Coalition today. Apparently they are all about protecting human rights while working to promote industry and free trade. They call themselves moderate Democrats. I used to be pretty moderate too but have been pulling to the left in direct reaction to the T Party's push to the right. At first I thought hey, this might be a good idea, but after reading this thread you guys have convinced me to stand my ground and keep fighting for what's right. It seems that the T Party's idea of compromise is them standing firm and us caving in. So, after due consideration I'm back on track. Thanks.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:31 PM

71. There are so few Dem leaders speaking like he does

I say that he and Bernie Sanders should start a 3rd party. Call it the "Democratic Reform Party"

I know, I know, 3rd party means division and vote splitting. But I really think people would like a refreshing change from the conservatives and conservative appeasers in Congress now.

Just putting it out there.

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:55 AM

83. with all due respect

I d\o not want a repeat of up north, where Harper is playing the various factions of the left against each other like a harp. Bush is gone, Harper is still there.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:22 PM

74. +1

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:31 AM

79. Blue dog's run Denver

I've, just in the last two to three months, realized Denver, once a bastian of liberals is run by very conservative "democrats"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 05:55 AM

80. Given the district, are there credible progressive alternatives?

The answer to that question determines my voting behavior. Even the worst Dems are better than the best Repubs. The graphs are lifetime voting record on issues of concern to seniors in the House and the Senate. I did this in WA State for environmental issues, and got similar results.






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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:41 AM

86. "lesserthantwoevilism" will destroy this country

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:52 AM

87. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:02 AM

88. Blue Dog Dems too often would be Republicans IF

moderates were still allowed in the Republican Party.

The Democratic tent has become so large that even Republicans are taking refuge!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:38 AM

94. K&R

I don't know about the rest of the country but around here we like people who stand up and fight for what they believe in. Instead of bending further inward we should be standing tall. Instead of acquiescing to monied interests we should be publicly whipping them. We must never be afraid to stand up for the things that cant stand up for themselves. The folks around here like to see someone standing up for themselves and others and having the courage of their convictions to fight for them tooth and nail. They generally respond very positively. Even if they disagree. Around here that is.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:39 AM

95. Harry was right THEN,

and he is STILL right today!


"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman
QED:2010


Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!




"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Response to bvar22 (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:57 PM

102. Harry was a wise man!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:47 AM

96. re: Gov Dean: No More Electing Dems who behave like Republicans- That's how we lost public option

 

Fmr Gov. Dean is spot on.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:25 PM

98. Right. The fight is in the primary, liberals, not the election. After the primary, fall in line.

Don't like the DINO. Run somebody against him/her.

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Response to davidwparker (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:27 PM

106. If only it were THAT simple.

SEE: Arkansas Democratic Primary, 2010.

We did everything right to replace Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln's failing campaign in the Democratic Primary.
We had Union support, the Grass Roots, and a very popular Pro-HealthCare, Pro-LABOR candidate,
Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter.

He was polling well against the virulently Anti-UNION, anti-HealthCare Blue Dog incumbent who was campaigning on I'm the one who derailed the "Big Government takeover of Health Care"!!

We did everything the White House asked us to do to "Elect More Progressives!"

Guess WHAT happened?
and Guess WHO we wound up fighting to "Elect More Progressives"?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Obama White House!!!
They pulled out ALL the Stops to rescue Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln!
*An Oval Office Presidential Endorsement played over & over on local TV

*Funds from the DSCC

*the White House even sent the Old Dog (Bill Clinton) back home to Arkansas to drum up support for "the woman who wrecked ObamaCare".
Fundraisers and Rallies.

*After the White House had torpedoed the campaign of Pro-HealthCare/ Pro-UNION Bill Halter,
an "Anonymous White House Spokesperson" ridiculed Organized LABOR for "wasting $10Million Dollars" supporting a Pro-LABOR candidate in a Democratic Primary.

*Naturally, after being insulted and Steam Rolled by the White House, LABOR did NOT turn out for the Blue Dog Lincoln,
and she was soundly defeated by the Republican in the General Election.



If the Arkansas Primary was an anomaly,
I could write it off as the White House NOT paying attention.
But Arkansas was NOT unique.
This pattern of assisting Conservatives and even Republicans (see Pennsylvania and Florida Democratic Primaries) was repeated too many times in 2010 to be a mistake.

So, that naive nonsense about
"All you have to do is work to elect Progressives in Primaries" is Pollyanna Bull Shit.


The White House, The DSCC, the DCCC, the DNC, or ANY National Organization
has Absolutely NO Business interfering in local Democratic Primaries.
When they do so, it is ALWAYS to subvert the Will of the People!




Can you IMAGINE the message it would have sent to the Blue Dogs if the White House
had thrown their support behind the Challenger in the Arkansas Democratic Primary?
But NO!
The White House and the National Democratic Party leadership sent the message that they will go to extremes to protect the Blue Dogs and Big Business Conservatives who are running our Party,
AND to protect the worn OUT excuse of "We really wanted to, but we didn't have 60 votes."




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #106)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 02:52 PM

111. No, you did everything right. All of us need to do the same thing. Your post is timely,

given that indications seem the supreme court is going to strike down the individual mandate and then Obama's health care goes with it.

I agree with your last statement. Protecting the 60 vote threshold gives cover to those selling us out. I think as we were cheering in 2008 for the Obama win and the retaking of Congress's houses, the Dem leadership were terrified: cover blown and now we have no excuses. Split houses give them cover to not pursue a progressive agenda.

Like you say, keep Blanche, part of the club, over somebody who would vote for real health care reform.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:13 PM

103. We got rid of a lot of them

in the last election. You'd think the remaining ones would wake the fuck up!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:36 PM

107. I'll vote Dem but I will be wearing a military industrial gas mask when I do it.

I'll participate in the dog and pony show we call Democracy even though that isn't what it is anymore. Corrupt supreme court, congress, military, ect, all catering to corporations. They don't represent me and what's left of the middle class and poor. God bless America ...pffft ...whatever

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:24 PM

108. Yep. K&R n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:35 PM

109. Sorry, Doc, but your Congressional strategy is largely responsible for that.

We elected "Democrats" like Parker Griffith and Artur Davis during the wave elections of 2006 and 2008--both of whom have defected to the Republican Party since.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:11 PM

110. kick!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:01 PM

112. I don't vote for Republicans..even if they have a (D) after their names.

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