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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:36 AM

 

I'm here to bitch. re: aliens

Not the kind who cross the border. The ones from planet "X". Way too many people try to convince me that aliens are among us or that they helped build the pyramids and are responsible for crop circles. They say that the Egyptians hadn't the technology to build the pyramids. I keep my mouth shut because what I'm saying in my head is "you're an idiot", and I have yet to find someone who likes being called an idiot.

I read science. I've read many books on how the Egyptians built the pyramids. The sources for the rock are there, the tools are there, and remains of the barges that transported the blocks have been discovered. These "idiots" say that they had not achieved the technology capable of lifting the blocks. Bull. They had magnificent technology. Levers, rope, block & tackle, rollers, lubricants, and human strength. For every thousand good science books on the subject, some "idiot" writes a book stating the alien intervention theory, and everyone jumps on board. Why? Is real science so boring? Or, do modern humans grasp the knowledge that they can comprehend for the science that is too complicated?

These "idiots" never see the irony when they say that religion is a fairy tale.

53 replies, 5434 views

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm here to bitch. re: aliens (Original post)
salinen Jun 2012 OP
Mnemosyne Jun 2012 #1
HipChick Jun 2012 #2
Confusious Jun 2012 #8
salinen Jun 2012 #14
ProdigalJunkMail Jun 2012 #13
salinen Jun 2012 #16
flamingdem Jun 2012 #23
snooper2 Jun 2012 #26
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #46
Iggo Jun 2012 #3
targetpractice Jun 2012 #4
salinen Jun 2012 #10
salinen Jun 2012 #11
targetpractice Jun 2012 #17
zappaman Jun 2012 #31
malthaussen Jun 2012 #5
KatyMan Jun 2012 #39
surrealAmerican Jun 2012 #51
spin Jun 2012 #6
Control-Z Jun 2012 #7
salinen Jun 2012 #9
Control-Z Jun 2012 #30
salinen Jun 2012 #35
a la izquierda Jun 2012 #37
salinen Jun 2012 #48
ProdigalJunkMail Jun 2012 #15
HopeHoops Jun 2012 #12
chowder66 Jun 2012 #18
salinen Jun 2012 #20
chowder66 Jun 2012 #28
salinen Jun 2012 #40
chowder66 Jun 2012 #53
Bandit Jun 2012 #19
salinen Jun 2012 #22
ljm2002 Jun 2012 #24
Taverner Jun 2012 #21
ljm2002 Jun 2012 #25
Posteritatis Jun 2012 #27
a la izquierda Jun 2012 #38
GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #29
salinen Jun 2012 #41
daaron Jun 2012 #32
Motown_Johnny Jun 2012 #33
salinen Jun 2012 #44
daaron Jun 2012 #47
salinen Jun 2012 #42
edhopper Jun 2012 #34
salinen Jun 2012 #43
Butterbean Jun 2012 #36
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #45
salinen Jun 2012 #49
Marrah_G Jun 2012 #50
Zorra Jun 2012 #52

Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:42 AM

1. Do you realize that if you leave one 'n' off your nick, that the letters rearrange to spell aliens?

Sorry!

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:44 AM

2. If you think that we are alone in this Universe...

Then God help us all...

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:15 PM

8. He didn't say that

He just said he doesn't think aliens came across a million billion miles to help a bunch of humans arrange rocks.

They had to do it all by their lonesome.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:28 PM

14. Right

 

If aliens did intervene, it'd be much more interesting than a pile of rocks. The technology it takes to get here is fantastic.

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:26 PM

13. if that is what you got out of his post

Then god help us all...

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:30 PM

16. We are not alone in this Universe

 

but we have not been seriously visited yet. Maybe we aren't that interesting to a group of highly advanced beings.

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Response to salinen (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:35 PM

23. Then again they might be "reading" DU!

snork sneek druuuunk? alert alert

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

26. If you understand the extreme vastness of the universe

how can you logically ask for a mythical being to help us?

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:39 AM

46. We are alone.

It's not up to me to prove the premise.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:51 AM

3. I'm not saying it was aliens..

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:55 AM

4. Panspermia...

...is a theory about how life began on Earth. It's scientifically plausible, and will eventually be proven or disproven by the scientific method as evidence is gathered over time.

The belief that an intelligent god created the entire universe is a matter of faith, and can never be proven or disproven.

So, the ideas of panspermia, intelligent life beyond Earth, or even ancient astronauts (no matter how unlikely) can be reconciled with atheistic thinking.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:23 PM

10. the flying spaghetti monster

 

cannot be proven or disproven. I won't waste my time on either.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:26 PM

11. the theory of "directed panspermia"

 

is very interesting. Doesn't exactly answer the question of where life began, because the place where it came from could have also been a target of "directed panspermia". Still, the age of the universe is a clue.

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Response to salinen (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:52 PM

17. Did you see Prometheus?

Great movie, unlikely scenario, but the movie raises so many questions without answers... I've been thinking about it for days afterwards.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:51 PM

31. Me too.

I'm hoping the next one will answer a few of those questions...

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:07 PM

5. We don't like admitting they could do something hard

I think it's a sort of cultural elitism. We "modern" people -- who are standing on the shoulders of giants -- don't like to be reminded that we are pygmies compared to others. I've often seen people poo-poohing ancient technologies and science, as if to say that those damned primitives were incapable of rational thought. So in the extreme case, people who think like this resort to aliens rather than accept that we're not, after all, so much smarter than our distant ancestors.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:51 AM

39. Excellent post.

Everyone in every age believes they're the most modern society with the most modern technology. Serfs in the Dark Ages didn't sit around wishing someone would invent steam engines, they improved their plows, etc as best they could and those improvements were as great and groundbreaking (haha) to their society as improvements are to ours. I personally kind of resent the aliens theory as denigrating to humans.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:06 AM

51. ... pretty much ...

People like to think that ancient people(s) were "stupid" compared to us. It just isn't true. The time that separates us from them is very short, far too short for us to evolve more intelligence. I would argue that we're not inferior, but rather no different at all.

The other bias at play here is how highly we value our tools over our own intelligence. If people today were to build a pyramid, for example, we would use the tools we have: it would be designed with computers, and built with heavy machinery. That does not mean that these tools are necessary to accomplish the task.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

6. If we build the Great Pyramid today we would use concrete ...

What if we built the Great Pyramid today?

***snip***

If you wanted to be completely authentic about reconstructing it, you would do the whole project with people power. It is believed the great pyramid was built with the labor of 5,000, 20,000 or 100,000 people (depending on which expert is doing the estimate). It took 20 years or so to build it. No matter how you slice it, that's a lot of effort. Even if you paid your workers minimum wage, the project would cost billions of dollars just for the labor if you tried to do it that way today.

Building it out of blocks is also going to be a major pain. You would have to find a quarry containing that much stone, cut the stone out of the quarry, load it onto trucks or trains, haul it to the site, unload and lift it and so on. It's certainly doable. Modern cranes and trucks would make it a lot easier. But it is a pain nonetheless.

There must be an easier way. Using today's technology there is. To do it the modern way, you would definitely go with concrete. It would be something like building the Hoover Dam, which has about as much concrete in it as the Great Pyramid has stone. With concrete, you can mold the shape you want and pour.
http://express.howstuffworks.com/mb-pyramid.htm


Obviously we would have a hard time today building the pyramids using the technology the ancient Egyptians used.
For the amount of money that it would cost, we could probably establish bases on the Moon and Mars. However the article mentions that by using concrete the cost of the project might be only $250 million to $300 million.

One of our faults when we view ancient civilizations is that we feel they were not as intelligent as we are today. They were every bit as smart as we are but just lacked our knowledge and science.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

7. So what you're saying is....

aliens are not real and only exist in fairy tales, but God/religion is real and not a fairytale?

Did I get that right?

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:21 PM

9. no

 

the same people who are convinced aliens were the architects and builders of the pyramids, will say that religions are a fairytale. Crazies calling the other crazies crazy.

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Response to salinen (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:51 PM

30. If it pisses you off that people believe in aliens,

then I have to conclude that you don't believe in them. And if it upsets you that people call religion a fairytale then it leads me to believe that you have religious beliefs.

It actually makes perfect sense for a believer in aliens to be a non believer in gawd. The theory that aliens have been on the earth and played a role in the building of the pyramids is based in physical evidence while religion has nothing more than stories to back it up.

So unless you don't believe in either, your anger must stem from a belief in religion. Right?



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Response to Control-Z (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:43 AM

35. I have no religious beliefs

 

and I do not think that the Earth has been visited by aliens yet. It makes sense that there are many places in the Universe that should sprout life. Getting here is a big step. As Earthlings we've just begun to venture into space. The vast expanse is an incredible obstacle for an advanced civilization. We are attempting communication and they probably are as well.

As for my comment on religion. I think there is irony in "alien interventionists" calling religion a fairytale. To me, they are both fairytales and that they speak more about psychology than anything practical.

Call me a bigot, I can take it.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:47 AM

37. What physical evidence do you have for aliens building pyramids?

As a scholar of indigenous groups in the Americas, I find this to be objectionable that takes me weeks to undo in my students brains every semester.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:42 AM

48. to the left

 

just to make our blood boil, tv is full of "ancient alien" type programs.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:29 PM

15. no...I would say you are about 100% wrong... n/t

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:26 PM

12. Aliens?

 


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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:55 PM

18. religion replacement

I think there are people who use belief in unexplained phenomena as their religion. When they cannot find an explanation - even though many exist for many different things...like the Mayan calander and the pyramids - some latch onto an alternative belief. Sometimes it is entertaining and imaginative but many times it is just kind of sad and seems to be a exact match of replacing "god" with "e.t.".












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Response to chowder66 (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:31 PM

20. head on nail

 

unanswered questions are too much for some. Any answer, no matter how ridiculous, is better than nothing. I enjoy saying "I have no fucking idea". But I find that I'm in the minority.

I also think it's a way for people to feel empowered. They have magical information that separates them from common thinkers.

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Response to salinen (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:18 PM

28. I'm in your camp.

I guess I'm patient. I can wait for a scientific explanation and if it doesn't come...that's okay with me.....no explanation provides for imagination.
That's why I find some ideas entertaining but not all or many are feasible. The problem is when people take themselves too seriously and become inflexible. That can go either way though. I don't want to say "That's ridiculous" every time I hear a far-fetched idea, some are far-fetched though and utterly impossible but if I am proven wrong then I will either go into denial and become inflexible myself or most likely I will flex. I just prefer a plausible scientific explanation or an admission that we do not have an answer (which could come...or not!).

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Response to chowder66 (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:51 AM

40. Too many who discuss

 

the "alien" option are intellectual dullards. I ask them "so, when did you study chemistry, physics, geology, paleontology, entomology, etc.", and the usual answer is, "not much'. So they discard real usable information for singular crackpot ideas.

It's because they lack self-esteem, in my opinion, and must make wild ideas to help their egos feel unique and special.

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Response to salinen (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:31 PM

53. in many cases sure

I think you are most likely right in many cases although I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. No one has to have taken a class in any of the fields you mention to disbelieve it. Pretty sure some "alien believers" have taken those classes and they just bend their beliefs to fit the scientific narrative or vica versa.

There were people who called themselves fantasists, sci-fi writers, etc. They put out interesting ideas and were highly creative in presentation but they did not run around calling themselves experts and acting as though it was anything other than imagination. Lucky for us they still exist but things changed.

There was money to be made and there was one person in nearly every town who became an expert and spun ideas, some their own... but mostly from others. They declared great conspiracies and proclaimed fact at every opportunity.
This is where known fantasy turned into conspiracy for-profit. Which now means it is all fact...(come on disprove it...they say!).

I would say it is lazy to buy into the aliens are coming after us fantasy... and it is...but at the same time is isn't... because the amount of effort some give to "alien" beliefs can't be easy. Think of the giant leaps and illogic that must be imagined to fill pages of a book or time on the airwaves and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight for some of these believers. It's here to stay I'm afraid. Maybe it will die down in a generation or two but I doubt it. There seems a deep need for some to feel like something is in control of them or has control over the things they don't understand (or in many cases - refuse to accept). But even more important, how better to make money while doing something as creative as this...even if it is fraudulent if treated as fact/conspiracy.

My guess is that some of these people do have intellects but they use them in the way some other people do - in that they seem to have a difficult time "not knowing" and rely too much on "filling in the blanks". Which is okay... but only if it is declared that it is only imagination at work or theory.

Of course, if they do pull out a spacecraft loaded with funyun munching aliens then I will have to re-evaluate where I went wrong.

Religion replacement of alien belief aside. I do enjoy a good sci-fi book or movie.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:06 PM

19. man had to move and place one stone block every 20 seconds for 20 years straight

Carve move and place one block every twenty seconds for twenty straight years...pretty impressive for humans straight out of cave man age...

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Response to Bandit (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:34 PM

22. not

 

many civilizations before Egypt. Man really never lived in caves. But I know you were just joking.

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Response to Bandit (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:36 PM

24. You think the Egyptians of that era...

...were "straight out of cave man age" (sic)?????

Have you seen any of their artifacts? They were quite an advanced civilization, actually, with remarkably detailed and beautiful art that is a wonder to behold, considering some of it goes back 5,000 years. Their society was also quite sophisticated. Oh, and... slaves. Those big, labor-intensive undertakings were not so daunting when they could command an army of slaves to do the actual work.

So you're thinking... aliens?

Good grief.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:32 PM

21. Watch out or the word police will get you...

 

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:40 PM

25. It drives me nuts too...

...for me, the one that's most disturbing is the idea that life on earth originated from aliens.

Like that in any way resolves the mystery that is life.

It merely begs the question. If life did not originate on Earth, is it any less of a mystery? It originated somewhere in this universe we live in.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that life is an innate property of the universe, and it will appear on any planet where the right conditions exist. Then it will evolve, in a manner that fits with its environment. This seems mysterious enough, and wonderful enough, without bringing aliens into it.

And why is Earth not good enough for our life to have originated here? It's kind of like Groucho Marx saying he would not join any club that would have him as a member. In other words, it's dissing our own mother, Mother Earth.

Oh well, rant off.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:47 PM

27. The implicit bigotry of a lot of the ancient-astronaut BS is what bugs me

Aliens always built the pyramids, or Mesoamerican sites, or half of ancient India and so on and so forth, but they never had a hand in, say, neolithic European monuments, to say nothing of the actual big-name cultures that were running up impressive stuff in about as documented a way as the other examples there are.

What I hear when people are yammering about that sort of thing is basically "Those People were insufficiently white to build something impressive, so aliumz had to have helped them!" Doesn't matter if the construction techniques are incredibly well documented - as you pointed out - they just have to do their best to dismiss or infantilize people they don't know quite as much about.

(That's before getting into the whole crop circles thing, which is contemporary as hell and at least as well-documented as the acts of bored humans.)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:50 AM

38. Yes...

I totally agree. The argument that "ignorant savage Indians" couldn't build Palenque, Tiwanaku, or wherever makes me blood boil.
The frickin' Aztecs figured out how to build floating farm plots, for god's sake, and how to ensure their city had fresh water in a brackish lake.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:47 PM

29. Real science requires critical thinking.

Junk science doesn't.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:54 AM

41. Yes

 

That's how it boils down and it's sad to me.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:10 PM

32. Ayup. The other one that makes my head go KABLOOIE!!! -->

 

is astrology.

One thing at a time though: it's extremely likely that there IS life elsewhere in the cosmos - even, possibly, in our own solar system. What is extremely UN-likely is that any of that life could get here. It's not the technology - it's the physics. Realistically, it would take from decades (doable) to millennia (not) to get here from there (any there). That's using the hypothetical fastest conceivable spaceship. Maybe some aliens developed some robots and sent them our way. If so, let's see the evidence. Otherwise - nope - never happened, and as entertaining as it is, I won't be taking it (or such a theory's proponents) seriously.

Astrology, OTOH. Gah! It's everywhere! Even many Christians buy into it. GAH!!! Save me from gravity so miniscule that the hospital bed exerted more.

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Response to daaron (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:19 PM

33. Ghosts have that effect on me

Astrology is just so vague that you can usually find what you are looking for. I think of it as more of a primitive parlor game.

Alien don't bother me to much either, although the idea that they had nothing better to do than to build huge three dimensional stone triangles makes me scratch my head.

The whole ghost thing bothers me. I honesty believe that there is nothing there in the dark that isn't there in the light. People being scared of the dark and trying to rationalize it with some otherworldly presence just gets to me.


FYI... Relativistic time dilation deals with the problem of a millennial space trip. Time moves slower in a ship that is moving at relativistic speeds. It is theoretically possible to travel that distance in one lifetime even though when/if you return to your starting point a very long time would have passed.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:05 AM

44. except

 

you have a problem with mass. As you approach light speed, things get weird dimensionally.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:39 AM

47. The problem with relativistic speeds -->

 

is the exponentially increasing energy required to go a tiny fraction of a LY per Y faster. Even if one could get a vessel to travel at 1/2 the speed of light, the astronauts would need a fictional warp field to prevent decoherence of their physical forms. For instance, if one could travel AT the speed of light, one would arrive at one's destination as a flash of incoherent light, not as a human being. Going even 1/2 the speed of light would exert such force on one's atomic structure that it's extremely doubtful any passengers in such a vessel could survive. All of Einstein's spaceships were thought experiments - not meant to be understood as plausible scenarios for people.

IOW, relativistic time dilation could only ever help a very small amount, with rapidly diminishing returns on energy invested.

ETA: Why even at 1/2 light speed? Think of a poor little electron (e) - nothing more than a trapped photons 'orbiting' a nucleus at or near light speed. When e is going the same way as the spaceship atom? Well, it can't exceed light speed so its electron cloud probability distribution gets, in a word, fucked.

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Response to daaron (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:59 AM

42. don't get me started

 

and astrology was invented before Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune were discovered. And yes, the strait jacket they should be wearing exerts more gravity.

Christians are especially susceptible because they already have a genetic bullshit deficiency.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:24 PM

34. I've talked to this kind of folk as well,

they have a hard time understanding how humans built something so big
But one should ask if they understand how this was built



or this



or this



Maybe they just have a hard time understanding in general.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:01 AM

43. beautiful groin vaulting

 

aliens are very artistic.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:46 AM

36. Yeah, but aliens totally DID build the donkey wheel on the island.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

45. Every idiot believes that the generations that came before were even stupider than they are.

The inverse is true.

We're raised to believe in magic and feel entitled to have our delusional goddamn "beliefs" treated as if they might be right.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:45 AM

49. Yep

 

the only evolving that's happening is with the ego, it's becoming a monster.

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:53 AM

50. Imagination is one of the things that makes us human :)

It's not always a bad thing. When we see something we can't explain we look for explanations. Sometimes those theories are or seem to be nutty and sometimes the search leads to new discoveries.

Don't get upset, just giggle to yourself as long as they aren't hurting anyone

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Response to salinen (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:04 PM

52. Yeah, they're way off the mark...

Hi! I'm Z, and I'm an "alien" <<< (that's my "real" form)

I hope y'all are having an awesome day, but I need to get right to the point here.

Listen..like, ya know...our guys have never needed to enslave others in order to build enormous phallic symbols and gather shiny stuff as testaments to how wise and marvelous they are in order to impress our females, or engage in lame attempts at achieving immortality , and then go and lie about it and say they did it for the glory of some fictitious, omniscient, egomaniac killer sky daddy.

Do y'all really believe that an omniscient, omnipotent being would think and behave like Hitler or Stalin?

C'mon, now...let's get real. Only a totally devolved thug would want a thug as their deity. Non?

It's disturbing, and quite embarrassing, to see all this crazy shit y'all been doing to each other and your poor world, like...forever?

We don't need ships, monuments, weapons, or any of this other stupid junk you make from what you rip from your mother's belly so that you have something to amuse yourselves with in order to make the time go by faster until you die. You've totally gone off course, and made a real mess here; you are seriously devolving very quickly. It's going to take some serious time and effort to fix this. There's still some time left, but not a whole lot, relatively speaking, of course.

Y'all do realize that if you don't all get together soon, surround the crazies with sheer numbers, and take their toys and their place away, this world, and most of the physical life on it, is toast, right? The crazies have used technology in order to deceive you into believing you have no power to stop them. But you really can.

Believe in yourselves. Do you really want/need a bunch of depraved, ignorant, greedy authoritarian evolutionary throwback morans controlling your lives and poisoning your children?

Place your heart before your head, and kiss yourself hello.



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