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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:52 AM

CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!11!!1!!

Seriously.


Senate Dems balk at ending Bush-era tax rates on wealthy without a deficit deal
By Alexander Bolton
The Hill

A growing number of Senate Democrats are signaling they are not prepared to raise taxes on anyone in the weak economy unless Congress approves a grand bargain to reduce the deficit.

At least seven Democratic senators have declined to rule out supporting a temporary extension of the Bush-era income tax rates, breaking with party leaders who have called for letting the rates expire for people earning more than $1 million per year.

That gives Senate Republicans a chance to push a temporary extension similar to the deal Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) struck with President Obama in December of 2010.

Democrats running for reelection, such as Sens. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), have declined to endorse their leadership’s call for a tax increase on wealthy families.

The rest: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/233389-senate-dems-balk-at-ending-bush-tax-rates-for-wealthy

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Arrow 171 replies Author Time Post
Reply CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!11!!1!! (Original post)
WilliamPitt Jun 2012 OP
Turbineguy Jun 2012 #1
Samantha Jun 2012 #32
kentuck Jun 2012 #48
deutsey Jun 2012 #57
Samantha Jun 2012 #67
RC Jun 2012 #77
Samantha Jun 2012 #113
Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #54
Samantha Jun 2012 #111
Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #115
Samantha Jun 2012 #128
dreampunk Jun 2012 #45
Xyzse Jun 2012 #114
dixiegrrrrl Jun 2012 #60
Maraya1969 Jun 2012 #64
turtlerescue1 Jun 2012 #94
Paka Jun 2012 #158
WI_DEM Jun 2012 #2
spanone Jun 2012 #3
sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #4
99Forever Jun 2012 #5
JHB Jun 2012 #11
orpupilofnature57 Jun 2012 #6
wordpix Jun 2012 #7
BumRushDaShow Jun 2012 #8
bluedigger Jun 2012 #13
BumRushDaShow Jun 2012 #38
bluedigger Jun 2012 #106
no_hypocrisy Jun 2012 #9
Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #16
MessiahRp Jun 2012 #18
Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #22
theaocp Jun 2012 #27
MightyOkie Jun 2012 #34
theaocp Jun 2012 #43
ieoeja Jun 2012 #104
MightyOkie Jun 2012 #156
Blanks Jun 2012 #127
Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #35
theaocp Jun 2012 #44
MightyOkie Jun 2012 #155
theaocp Jun 2012 #160
kentuck Jun 2012 #53
99Forever Jun 2012 #21
still_one Jun 2012 #10
FarCenter Jun 2012 #12
xxqqqzme Jun 2012 #19
MightyOkie Jun 2012 #37
theaocp Jun 2012 #29
FarCenter Jun 2012 #140
morningfog Jun 2012 #59
emulatorloo Jun 2012 #20
frylock Jun 2012 #26
morningfog Jun 2012 #47
Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #14
Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #15
kentuck Jun 2012 #56
MightyOkie Jun 2012 #157
bullwinkle428 Jun 2012 #17
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #23
erpowers Jun 2012 #24
frylock Jun 2012 #25
ProfessionalLeftist Jun 2012 #28
Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #30
Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #39
AverageJoe90 Jun 2012 #58
Jackpine Radical Jun 2012 #80
kentuck Jun 2012 #86
Jackpine Radical Jun 2012 #161
hfojvt Jun 2012 #31
ProSense Jun 2012 #33
kentuck Jun 2012 #41
Savannahmann Jun 2012 #69
Doc Holliday Jun 2012 #103
morningfog Jun 2012 #68
Savannahmann Jun 2012 #71
RC Jun 2012 #88
steve2470 Jun 2012 #74
boxman15 Jun 2012 #133
woo me with science Jun 2012 #36
kentuck Jun 2012 #40
morningfog Jun 2012 #50
Skittles Jun 2012 #149
pansypoo53219 Jun 2012 #42
MineralMan Jun 2012 #142
Kaleva Jun 2012 #143
steve2470 Jun 2012 #144
Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #145
FloridaJudy Jun 2012 #146
RC Jun 2012 #147
FloridaJudy Jun 2012 #164
RC Jun 2012 #165
UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #166
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #167
morningfog Jun 2012 #46
riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #65
deutsey Jun 2012 #49
Samantha Jun 2012 #51
salib Jun 2012 #52
patrice Jun 2012 #55
Savannahmann Jun 2012 #61
patrice Jun 2012 #62
kentuck Jun 2012 #63
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #78
kentuck Jun 2012 #84
Savannahmann Jun 2012 #85
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #116
kentuck Jun 2012 #117
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #119
Savannahmann Jun 2012 #122
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #126
kentuck Jun 2012 #131
kentuck Jun 2012 #123
aquart Jun 2012 #95
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #118
librechik Jun 2012 #66
msongs Jun 2012 #70
Cigar11 Jun 2012 #72
Cali_Democrat Jun 2012 #73
Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #75
Flint Stone Jun 2012 #76
WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #91
Flint Stone Jun 2012 #97
kentuck Jun 2012 #100
Flint Stone Jun 2012 #110
Samantha Jun 2012 #129
kentuck Jun 2012 #132
WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #101
dawg Jun 2012 #79
TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #99
Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #105
steve2470 Jun 2012 #81
otohara Jun 2012 #82
tularetom Jun 2012 #83
kentuck Jun 2012 #89
freshwest Jun 2012 #87
theaocp Jun 2012 #90
patrice Jun 2012 #93
Zorra Jun 2012 #92
patrice Jun 2012 #96
kentuck Jun 2012 #98
patrice Jun 2012 #109
nineteen50 Jun 2012 #102
steve2470 Jun 2012 #107
patrice Jun 2012 #108
WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #112
patrice Jun 2012 #136
patrice Jun 2012 #137
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #120
kentuck Jun 2012 #125
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #135
kentuck Jun 2012 #138
mmonk Jun 2012 #121
kentuck Jun 2012 #124
mmonk Jun 2012 #139
kentuck Jun 2012 #141
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #130
revolution breeze Jun 2012 #134
Skittles Jun 2012 #148
ErikJ Jun 2012 #150
lonestarnot Jun 2012 #151
geekd Jun 2012 #152
ErikJ Jun 2012 #153
geekd Jun 2012 #171
patrice Jun 2012 #163
geekd Jun 2012 #170
Jamaal510 Jun 2012 #154
eridani Jun 2012 #159
steve2470 Jun 2012 #162
rightwinger77 Jun 2012 #168
markpkessinger Jun 2012 #169

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:54 AM

1. Maybe this is a stupid question

but would not increasing taxes by definition reduce the deficit?

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:52 AM

32. The biggest driver of the deficit is

the Bush* tax cuts.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:11 PM

48. And the taxcuts cause the deficits...

and the deficits cause the cuts in Medicare and other programs, and the cuts in spending cause the economy to go down, and the deficits create huge debt that is a burden for years and years, and we want to continue these deficits or these spending cuts?

The ironic part is that they will have little impact on the economy because most of the taxcuts are for the wealthy and will not be spent in our economy. It is a false reasoning by the politicians and propagandists that want the taxcuts to continue. Quite the opposite, the economy will not recover until we get rid of these taxcuts.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #48)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:20 PM

57. Yep

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Response to kentuck (Reply #48)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:34 PM

67. Absolutely

I was submitting another response as you were posting this. Take a look at the chart I posted below in another post.

The real kick in the belt for me is when I hear that Dems are saying they won't consider an extension unless a "Grand Bargain" is achieved in trade. The Simpson-Bowles plan had a couple of acceptable recommendations, but when one wanders further into the weeds, it is very upsetting, especially when we see some of the income tax deductions proponents of that plan would discontinue. A great example of that is the mortgage interest deduction. What thinking, rationale person would actually defend that point when looking at the state of our housing market? A driving factor to purchasing homes was promulgated in years gone by the ability to deduct mortgage interest from one's taxes. So if that is stricken, what will that do the incentive of many buyers who find buying a home just not as attractive an option.

And that recommendation on altering the way Social Security cost of living increases are awarding is another shot at the wallets of seniors.

"The plan raises taxes and cuts spending for $4 trillion in savings over the next 10 years. It cuts Social Security by raising the retirement age and reducing the payout for many workers and reducing cost-of-living adjustments. The plan also increases costs for some Medicare beneficiaries and eliminates most tax expenditures but lowers individual and corporate rates to 29 percent."

The above quoted material can be found here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/jamie-dimon-simpson-bowles-plan_n_1478484.html

SO THE ESSENCE OF THE ARGUMENT THESE DEMS ARE PROMULGATING IS THIS: WE WILL EXTEND THE BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY AS LONG AS WE STRIKE A GRAND BARGAIN CUTTING ENTITLEMENTS AND OTHER PROGRAMS WHICH WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT THE WALLETS OF THOSE WHO MOST NEED MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS.

Just how stupid do these Dems think its base is?

No Simpson-Bowles Grand Bargain; no extension of Bush* tax cuts.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #67)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:56 PM

77. Those are not Democrats

 

Just how stupid do these Dems think its base is?

They are DLC Republicans. We cannot just assume the (D) by the name means they are Democrats, or even somewhere around the Center anymore.

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Response to RC (Reply #77)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:23 PM

113. I agree with you about the right-leaning Dems - they should just move on over to the other

side of the aisle. New Dems, Blue Dogs, Third Way....

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:17 PM

54. Some of us called the obvious YEARS ago. Wake the fuck up. We are on our own.

 

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Response to Huey P. Long (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:20 PM

111. I was one of those and don't cuss at me n/t

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Response to Samantha (Reply #111)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:35 PM

115. haha, yes, well, not meant 'at' you, but just echoing using your reply

 

as starting point. Believe me, no offense to you meant!

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Response to Huey P. Long (Reply #115)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:19 PM

128. Okay, I understand and am now officially unoffended

Talk to you later.

Sam

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

45. email to my two Senators and 1 House "Representative":

PLEASE STOP THE HAGGLING AND STOP THE BUSH TAX CUTS. NO DEALS. SIMPLY LET THEM RUN OUT! WHAT THE HECK'S GOING ON OUT THERE??

No deals, no tradeoffs, just do it.

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Response to dreampunk (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:34 PM

114. Agreed

Even if my taxes rises, and even if it is hard, it is spread throughout the year and people make adjustments accordingly.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:23 PM

60. maybe

if the increased revenue were applied to the debt
instead of being spent for other things
like DOD, which is taking a HUGE chunk of the budget.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:28 PM

64. Sticking this in here

Tester, Jon - (D - MT) Class I
724 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-2644
Web Form: www.tester.senate.gov/Contact/index.cfm


Manchin, Joe, III - (D - WV) Class I
303 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3954
Web Form: www.manchin.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact-form


http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #64)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:34 PM

94. THANKYOU!!

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 04:57 AM

158. Thank you! n/t

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:55 AM

2. The Democrats often do more to defeat themselves

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:56 AM

3. k&r....sob's

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:58 AM

4. Called Sen. Pryor's office and spoke with an aide. I'm sure that Mark will

take Alice Walton's call on the subject directly.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:00 AM

5. Tonedeaf.

What does it take to get these clowns to listen and ACTUALLY HEAR?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:10 AM

11. A few million dollars in campaign funds. n/t

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:02 AM

6. " Don't want to raise taxes on anyone " is a ploy

You can tell who's trying to ingratiate themselves with the 1% ,and who cares about " anyone ".

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:04 AM

7. no doubt these DINO senators are hearing from their rich campaign donors: "don't raise taxes on ME

or you won't get your campaign bribes."

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:08 AM

8. The President could veto

and they will not have enough to override.

Hopefully the very vocal cadre of groupies on DU who parrot the "But what did he do when he had 60 votes in the Senate?" repuke talking point, will see why the nonsense that they keep uttering was never really the case. People like Blanche Lincoln and Evan Bayh are no longer in the article's cadre of conservadems but if they were, they would have done the same.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:19 AM

13. "The President could veto..."

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:57 AM

38. Not a "good one"

but based on recent legislative threats amplified by media, something like this may never reach his desk because of the threat itself (from past experience). And in this case, should these 7 get re-elected based on their "utterances" of support and not based on actual passed and signed legislation before the election, then someone like Bernie Sanders can filibuster the thing so that it would die in the Senate before any further action was taken. And in any case, he could filibuster the attempt at any time before or after.

I know that there are many on DU who thrive on Armageddon-speak but given whatever the chances are in the various congressional races, the strategies will be decided near or after the election, including the option of a pocket veto if something like that did get past Harry Reid. I.e., tax changes can be revised with the new congress depending on its makeup.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:54 PM

106. I understand the "threat" argument.

And the President may have used it effectively a few times, so far. His amazing non veto record may very well be due to the astoundingly unproductive congress currently "legislating". He hasn't had much to veto.

I don't know anything about Armageddon - I'm a heathen. I do know that it's much too soon to predict what might occur with a new Congress and President ____.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:09 AM

9. Unless Harry gets his minions in line, the tax cuts will be permanent via temporary extensions.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:25 AM

16. Senators are not the Majority Leader's minions

They are elected to represent their respective states. Sometimes those states are not very blue, and Senators need be flexible.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:32 AM

18. Harry COULD refuse to bring the vote to the floor though

To me that part is a no-brainer.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:36 AM

22. He could, but a stalemate would mean that everyone (rich, middle class, and poor) would get

a tax hike.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:47 AM

27. Stop buying into rightwing framing.

It's NOT a tax hike.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:54 AM

34. It isn't?

 

People who never paid the higher tax before might have a different opinion. Thinking in particular about those "rich" people that first became rich after 2001/2003.

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Response to MightyOkie (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:08 PM

43. That's still rightwing framing.

Change the conversation and you win the argument. You're conceding before the argument has begun. Try harder.

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Response to MightyOkie (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:06 PM

104. Why did you put "rich" in quotes? That usually translates as "fake rich" people.


While $250,000 a year doesn't put you into the category of the super wealthy, it most certainly puts you into a fairly elite club: the 2%.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:55 AM

156. That's kind of the way I feel about wealth...

 

...and tax policy. I know this sounds a bit kooky, but I just can't bring myself to complain that people who make way more than me and already pay more in taxes than me should pay even more or that what they already pay is unfair. Are their cheats and frauds? Yep. But I have to think that the overwhelming majority of the "rich" are everyday Americans just trying to live their lives. Still, your general point is understood.

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Response to MightyOkie (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:17 PM

127. Isn't the argument "we don't want to punish the the job creators"

That would appear to be entrepreneurs. One of the reasons to bump up the income tax is so that the 'job creators' will spend more on things that are deductible i.e. more employees, newer vehicles, updated office equipment etc. Just to get out of paying more in taxes.

If we are just increasing the income tax on someone drawing a salary of over a quarter of a million dollars a year; they aren't really job creators anyway. They can tighten their belts a little.

The percentage of their personal budget that goes toward transportation is smaller for this group than it is for the poor, and when the price of gas goes up a little; the poor have to tighten their belts. Increasing the out of pocket expenses for the more successful is only fair.

The Bush tax cuts need to expire. Their continued existence isn't stimulating the economy nearly as much as letting them expire will stimulate the economy.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:55 AM

35. Most voters would consider an increase in their tax rate from one year to the next to be

a tax hike.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:08 PM

44. You're conceding the argument on the right wing's terms.

Why would you do that? Change the conversation.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:45 AM

155. What does that claptrap even mean?

 

Conceding an argument? Changing the conversation? This is quite simple: If on June 30, 2012, you are paying 35% tax, then on July 1, 2012, you are paying 39%. That's an increase. Period. End of sentence. End of conversation. Now, if your point is that this process/analysis is conceding to the "right wing", rather than conceding to 1st grade math, I can't help you.

Since it seems that the prevailing issue in this thread is that the Bush tax cuts merely temporarily altered enacted tax rates, hence there is no increase as ending the cuts would merely restore those original rates. Unfortunately, for those who never paid the higher original rate to begin with (which was sort of my point) for whatever reason, unless they have their handy-dandy DeLorean with the optional flux capacitor and time traveled, they will pay for the FIRST TIME any restored original rate. Now, you can try harder next time rather than being a smart ass.

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Response to MightyOkie (Reply #155)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:31 AM

160. You like arguing from the right wing's perspective.

I choose otherwise. Giving Grover Norquist the red meat he wants by calling it an increase is unfortunate. All that and you want to end the conversation there, too. I don't like giving in to these goons so easily. Sorry you do. Why not call me a smart ass again? Maybe you'll feel better.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

53. I didn't think the very poor paid income taxes?


How much would their taxes go up, say at $25,000 ??

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:35 AM

21. Yeah?

Well, those Senators "flexibility" is why so many of us see them as the worthless sellouts they are.

Next up, you'll tell me how important it is for me to support every "Democrat," despite how badly they screw us once elected.

Go ahead, I need a laugh.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:10 AM

10. This is why the Democratic party essentially stands for nothing today /nt

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Response to still_one (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:15 AM

12. Senators are individuals with their own agendas responding to their supporters in their states

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:34 AM

19. Except their votes impact

the ENTIRE country. And the 'supporters' requiring a response are probably withholding envelopes until they know the outcome. These tax cuts were a horrible idea in the face of the pretzeldent's two wars. There is no reason to continue to compound the horrible policy.

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Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:56 AM

37. That's democracy for you.

 

I mean, a representative republic.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:48 AM

29. Define "supporters"

Please and thanks.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:29 PM

140. The people and organizations that fund their campaign: the organizations that work on their election

People who just vote or write comments on the internet do not qualify.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:21 PM

59. How many voters would sway from Dem to Repub in any of these seven

states if the Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire? How many people would actually even be impacted in these seven states. This is a ruse.

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Response to still_one (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:35 AM

20. Seven asshole Senators do not represent the entire Democratic party.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:47 AM

26. you're only as strong as your weakest link

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:11 PM

47. And the Democratic Party is weak if it can't keep its Senators in line.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:22 AM

14. Increasing taxes on the wealthy right now will not have any impact on the economy...

 

The wealthy are not going to spend more, invest more, hire more or anything else simply because they are paying a little more in taxes.

These DINO candidates are a disgrace to the Democratic party. I would prefer to have an R sitting in those seats because at least then everyone knows they are on the other side. If you aren't with us you are against us. Didn't W teach us that?

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:24 AM

15. I mean they won't spend or hire more or less depending on the amount they pay in taxes

 

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:19 PM

56. You are correct.


But they can pass a tax break for the working middle class as soon as the new Congress comes in, if they want to? They are playing games.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 04:04 AM

157. But there has to be a revenue solution somewhere; right?

 

That's where I am lost in this.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:29 AM

17. There's going to be another fucking "deal", just like there was 2 years ago.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:40 AM

23. Worthless Blue Dogs!

Whose side are they on?

Certainly not yours or mine.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:44 AM

24. Seems to be an Argument Against Tax Extension

“I was in the middle of the negotiation in December of ’10 with the vice president over extending the current tax rates for two years. The argument the president made in agreeing to do that two years ago was that the economy needed it,” McConnell said at a recent press conference. “The growth rate is actually slower than it was in December of ’10.”

“If the economy is even slower, there’s even more incentive to extend all the rates,” the aide said.


If you extended tax cuts based on the premise that the extension was needed to make the economy better and the economy got worse does that (the fact that the economy got worse) not defeat your argument.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:44 AM

25. gawd damn you obstructionist republicans!!1

errr uhhh....

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:48 AM

28. WTF??!?!!








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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:49 AM

30. I will sit home in November if it passes. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:02 PM

39. This would likely be taken up in a lame duck session, as it was in 2010

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:21 PM

58. That will only make things worse.

If we do that, the Repubs will start acting even more brazenly than they already have. To stay home on Election Day.....is to show weakness. They're kinda like the schoolyard bully; if you do nothing to defend yourself then they'll always screw with you. But if you stand up and say, "No, I won't stand for this crap anymore", and fight back, then we will have a chance to make things rights.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:59 PM

80. No way. Too many other things riding on November.

How would you like the Koch brothers nominating Ruth Bader Ginsburg's replacement?

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #80)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:09 PM

86. You make a good point Jackpine... but


it is starting to sound more and more like judicial blackmail. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. How much can we continue to surrender?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #86)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:07 AM

161. So the Democrats offer a slow slide to Perdition.

The Republicans will get us there by pushing us off a cliff.

The slow slide at least buys us some time.

The only argument in favor of the off-the-cliff approach is that conditions could quickly become so intolerable that a massive uprising would result. I'm not persuaded of either the accuracy or the desirability of that prediction. For one thing, down there at the bottom of the cliff you won't find many resources to fight the oppressors with.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:51 AM

31. gotta love the classics

But I am certainly not gonna call Congress to ask them to extend the Bush tax cuts for those making less than $1,000,000.

Maybe if you drop 3 zeros off of that number, but a million dollar threshhold is, or will be, just another huge betrayal of the working class. And some Democrats won't even support that?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:53 AM

33. Seven:

Manchin, McCaskill, Ben Nelson, Bill Nelson, Pryor (voted against health care reform), Tester and Webb.

Tools!

Let the tax cuts expire automatically.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:05 PM

41. Can the President not veto revenue bills?

Even if these Democrats vote for it? The ball is in the President's court. Is that not correct?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #41)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:39 PM

69. Yes the President Can.

Bill Clinton who had TWO TERMS given to him by a grateful public did veto a budget bill shutting down the Government. The public steadily blamed Newt the toad and the Regressive Rethugs for it. In the end, the Rethugs caved like the spoiled little bastards they are.

Why is it that nobody remembers the time when strength got us what being liked did not? I mean, seriously. For a minute now, just one minute. Bill Clinton vetoed how many welfare overhaul bills the repugs sent? He told them he would, and he did. Until they addressed his concerns and set the program up to perform as HE was willing to accept.

President Obama on the other hand, refuses to break out the rubber stamp and slam it down leaving a big red box with the word "VETO" and then sign that he is absolutely standing up for principal.

President Clinton may be a tad too moderate for my tastes. But at least we had someone who would FIGHT for us. Now we have a more LIBERAL president, who rolls over gives up at the first sign that someone may say something mean about him.

If you want to know who was more dangerous to the Rethugs, Clinton, or Obama. Look at it this way. By this point in his administration, President Clinton was already under investigation for Whitewater. A six year boondoggle that wasted something like sixty million dollars to prove that Clinton didn't do anything wrong. Not even a process crime was brought against him or the Administration. Unlike that f***** bas**** Bush where Scooter got busted for lying to investigators.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #69)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:57 PM

103. indeed

"...he is absolutely standing up for principal."

I'd much rather he stood up for principle instead.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:35 PM

68. Democratic leaders need to get them in line.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #68)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:44 PM

71. Democratic Leaders are too busy reading polls that tell us the predictable.

Small Minded Racist people are going to vote Republican. Then the Leadership tries to figure out what we can do to get the small minded racist morons to vote for us. Nuts. Well we can made the rich richer, that always makes the small minded morons happy.

Guess what guys, they are going to vote Republican. They would vote Republican if Adolph Hitler was the nominee. Especially if Hitler was the nominee.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #68)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:11 PM

88. They are in line. Just the wrong one.

 

They are lining up at the same feeding trough as the Republicans. We have to get rid of Citizens United.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:49 PM

74. my Senator Bill Nelson, ugh

ok going to email him now.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:46 PM

133. The usual suspects.

Blue Dogs are just as bad as Republicans in my book. At least we know where the GOP stands.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:56 AM

36. Exactly what everybody who is not LYING

to him or herself knew would happen.

When do we stop pretending? When?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=146626

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:03 PM

40. Get ready for it.

It was the plan all along.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:12 PM

50. This isn't even a surprise. We knew the tax cuts were essentially permanent

when Obama and the Dems caved the last go round.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:20 PM

149. CORRECT

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:06 PM

42. RETARDS. publikkklans blackmailed an extension for unemployment extension.

TEN FUCKING YEARS and NO JOBS. where's ytthe jobs? they said it would take away UNCERTAINTY. POPPYCOCK! this is the biggest thing STRANGLING THE ECONOMY.

i want ALL the bush taxes killed. ALL OF THEM!

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:54 PM

142. You know, the word "retard" when used to describe a person or group

is really offensive to people who know or love someone with developmental disabilities. Please don't use that expression here on DU. Thanks.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

143. Maybe you could edit your post to leave out the "R" word.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:03 PM

144. Please use another word besides "retard".

The other posters have explained why. Thanks.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:20 PM

145. Please stop using people with developmental disabilities as an insult.

It is hurtful to them, and the people who love them.

I'm sure you can come up with some really creative substitute insult without much trouble.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:23 PM

146. The word "retard" is offensive

To those with developmental disabilities, their families and their friends. There are so many synonyms in English for jerks: please pick a more suitable one.

Or jerks will do just fine, for that matter.

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Response to FloridaJudy (Reply #146)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:32 PM

147. Calling people 'jerks is offensive to soda jerks.

 

Please find another word.

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Response to RC (Reply #147)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:39 PM

164. When was the last time

You saw a "soda jerk"? They don't exist any more. They've gone the way of the ice man and the long distance operator.

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Response to FloridaJudy (Reply #164)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 05:20 PM

165. I remember them.

 

I'm sure some are still living.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:28 AM

166. So you refuse to edit out the offensive word?

 

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:43 AM

167. The subject line is extremely hurtful.

There are many of us who either have developmental disabilities, mental illnesses or have family that do.

My son has autism and I volunteer with a local chapter of an advocacy organization on their behalf. They are some of the best and nicest people I know.

If you wouldn't start a sentence with "N***ers! or "F*gs!" then you shouldn't use this slur either.

This post should have been hidden as disruptive, but it wasn't. So here's the disruption you requested and the jury failed to identify.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:10 PM

46. This can't be. We were told ad nauseum that the Bush tax cuts would

really, really, pinky-promise expire this time. We were told it was brilliant maneuvering by Obama to set this up. We were told after Obama extended them the last time, that would be the last time. I just can't believe this could possibly happen. Not after all of those assurances.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #46)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:30 PM

65. +1. Hate to say I told ya so

but yeah, a whole boatload of DUers essentially called this scenario when it went down 2 years ago.

So yeah, "told ya so" applies dammit

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:12 PM

49. Great...More from the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight

Fucking idiots.



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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:15 PM

51. James Fallows discusses this issue succinctly

Take a look at this chart:



posted here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/the-chart-that-should-accompany-every-discussion-of-deficits/238786/

At this link, right above the chart posted here is another chart which clearly explains all the factors driving the deficit. Fallows calls the chart, "The Chart Which Should Accompany Every Discussion of Deficits."

The Bush* tax cuts only extend token help to the middle class; it greatly benefits the wealthiest of Americans. This is what we should be saying to those Dems who posture their position as protecting the interests of their constituents. They are protecting simply the wealthy, not the common man.

Sam



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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:16 PM

52. The message is already clear

Call and remind them if you way. However, they do not get elected because of the people. It is money, at least from what they likely calculate.

Besides, even if they are removed/replaced they have already been promised a cushy life by those they truly represent.

This is not likely to enfluence these bluedogs.

Instead get busy putting people in that can still be enfluenced by We the People.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:19 PM

55. Since I'm from Kansas & it doesn't matter, should I focus on CALIFORNIA? Tell me how the CA tail

ain't waggin' the dog here, what with the Bush-tax-cut stuff Pelosi has been pulling off in the House and all.

I will humbly accept correction if I'm wrong here.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:26 PM

61. Somebody tell me why we need Republicans?

I mean, we have the neo-con's in our own party. I mean, come on. If we can't agree as Democrats, as a principal of the Democratic Party, that we do not support giving billions of dollars that our Government needs to do what we the people need it to do, that what can we agree on? What principal do we have left to distinguish ourselves from the RW's?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:27 PM

62. William,

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:27 PM

63. Damn, this is depressing...


Please tell me it isn't true?

The Democrats are now the Party that believes taxcuts are the way to stimulate the economy?

Please tell me they are not playing us all for fools?

And they will wait until after the election and after everyone has made their decision to break the news to us?

Barack Obama could fix this today. No deals. No letting the Bush taxcuts expire if you will give us X and Y... Just give us your word.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #63)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:56 PM

78. Um, contrarian view here, but tax cuts do have a stimulative effect. It's just that tax cuts

 

are a relatively inefficient stimulative tactic, compared to,for example, direct transfer payments to the poor and middle class (like unemployment insurance). IOW, you don't get nearly as much stimulus bang for your buck with tax cuts as you do with transfer payments or a jobs program where the governmetn hires citizens and pays them to work.

There are technical reasons having to do with the velocity of money and the multiplier effect why tax cuts stimulate but why they do not do so as efficiently as the alternatives mentioned in my preceding paragrah.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #78)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:03 PM

84. Yes, if they are spent.


But there are much better ways to stimulate the economy other than taxcuts for the wealthy.

Basically, the deal is, you will definitely get the taxcuts continued if the Repubs win and you probably will get them extended if the Democrats win. A distinction without a difference, some might say?

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #78)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:05 PM

85. I was listening to NPR Sunday Morning.

NPR was talking to a Union Rep, and explaining for all of us who turned in on our drive home after work, that Union's led to the great Middle Class of the past. At that time, roughly a third of the money flowed to the very rich. Now, it's about half of all the money goes to the very rich.

So the argument is they spend it, and hire people. Ten years later, with all the money they've been making, who has been hired? A Gardener that they want to deport. A maid they want to deport. And more lawyers who work around the clock to make sure the very rich don't pay any taxes.

Think about that, half the money goes to the very rich. HALF. The rest of us are struggling to survive. But Lord no we can't tell that SOB sitting on HALF the money this nation made this year to cough up a little. THAT would be bad for the economy.

Tell me again why having more than eight percent unemployed, millions of empty houses, are all good for the rich economy?

Yet the Clinton economic policy led to a booming economy, and budget surplus' instead of deficit. But that was bad because the rich paid more right?

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #85)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:09 PM

116. The tax cut issue is a red herring, imo, that allows Congress to ignore

 

its fiscal responsibility to spend to create jobs - deficits be damned - when the private sector is not creating jobs.

I merely wanted to point out that tax cuts tend to stimulate the economy but much less efficiently than a jobs program or direct transfer payments to the needy do.

IOW, the deficit is not a problem. Period, end of story.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #116)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:11 PM

117. It's a problem when the Repubs are effectively using it...

to cut programs that people need so they can give taxcuts to the wealthy.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #117)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:18 PM

119. It's a problem for sure. No debate from me. But the question of

 

whether to extend the tax cuts or let them expire is, imo, a 'red herring' when the question is how best to stimulate the economy.

When the private sector is not creating enough jobs, the government must create them, deficits be damned. Standard macroeconomics 101.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #119)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:32 PM

122. Then the Government needs more money to hire people

Which means that the rich need to pony up their fair share of HALF OF ALL THE MONEY in the country.

HALF.

The richest few collect half of the money. They obviously aren't hiring with that money, therefor the Government must take some, and hire some. Painfully obvious 101.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #122)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:14 PM

126. The government needs to hire people period. The tax

 

base, deficit and debt are all distractions from what must be done to get the economy moving again, imo.

Marginal tax rates (and inheritance taxes also) must be adjusted upward on the wealthiest of our citizens, there is no question. But the time to do that is when the economy\GDP is growing at 3-4% per year, not when it is doing its current dead cat bounce.

Having the tax cut issue around allows those responsible (Congress) to shirk their duty to do what logic and history say must be done, create jobs through government public works programs.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #126)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:42 PM

131. But the economy will not grow at 3-4% because...


the repubs are using the deficit as an excuse to cut state and government spending, creating less jobs and less growth. Unless you can convince the voters that deficits don't matter, we have to raise the taxes to cut the deficits in order to stop the games being played by the Republicans, which is tearing down our economy and our institutions.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #119)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:38 PM

123. Then, it would only keep the deficits high...?

..and continue to give the Repubs the excuse to cut Social Security and Medicare and everything else under the sun. We desperately need to get out of this cycle or the Democratic Party will continue to exist only for the purpose of appointing Supreme Court Justices.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #78)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:35 PM

95. Yet these cuts have destroyed our economy.

Which was completely predictable.

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Response to aquart (Reply #95)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:12 PM

118. That's actually an interesting counter-argument and I think there may

 

be something to it. To wit, to the extent that continued lower taxes for the wealthiest allow for ever greater concentrations of wealth, that may be what has contributed to damaging our economy.

When the private sector will not hire citizens, the government must. The marginal tax rate issue is thus, imo, something of a red herring, at least when the question of how best to stimulate the economy is at hand.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:31 PM

66. Quelle Surprise!

I'm about to let go the edge of this cliff I'm clinging to. The Blue Dogs are standing on my last nerve!


AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGHHHHH

Oh and have a nice summer vacation, traitors in the Senate!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:43 PM

70. Obama will veto any extensions, right? rofl nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:44 PM

72. FACT

The GOP will do ANYTHING to stop The President ... ANYTHING!

The Democratic Congress; especially those who are up for re-election will show NO BALLS to look like they will help The President.

At this rate, The GOP will get their America back.

If so, I how they get the exact same America they left The President in 2008.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:46 PM

73. Your avatar says it all

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:54 PM

75. This is why the Republicans seem to always control the agenda

and the Democrats never seem to. It's why I'm becoming completely disillusioned with politics.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:54 PM

76. Go right ahead and call......

A million calls, ten billion calls, it isn't going to matter. Unless you're a campaign contributor, crony capitalist friend, or wall street (lower case intentional) executive they really don't give a rats ass what you think. These guys don't work for us, and clearly don't need your vote anymore since they've rigged that too.....

But you go right ahead and call if it makes you feel better....

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Response to Flint Stone (Reply #76)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:28 PM

91. You're right, I give up.

Or something.

Enjoy your stay.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #91)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:36 PM

97. No, I haven't given up

I just know that the time for phone calls is over. You'll figure that out some day too.

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Response to Flint Stone (Reply #97)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:43 PM

100. When did you figure this out Flint Stone?

Will Pitt has been following these events very closely for at least the last 11 years, I know for a fact. Do you know something we don't know?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #100)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:19 PM

110. I guess I do

I have two eyes, two ears, a brain, and have lived here for 48 years. That makes me an expert on American Democracy as it is applied to our peasant population.

Again, if you think phone calls have an impact on our democracy, go have fun. I know better......

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Response to kentuck (Reply #100)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:31 PM

129. kentuck, I honestly think the only reason this subject has vaulted into debate at THIS moment

is to change the subject ASAP from the immigration issue. The Republicans were outmaneuvered and they don't want to dwell on that issue any longer than necessary. So just throw out some red meat to get the Democratic base ticked off and talking about another hot-button issue.

President Obama already said unequivocally he would not sign legislation to extend the Bush* tax cuts any longer. So the Republicans would have to override his veto which would give us some time to develop a strategy. Just my thoughts ....

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #129)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:44 PM

132. Very perceptive.

You may be right.

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Response to Flint Stone (Reply #97)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:46 PM

101. I appreciate your concern.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:57 PM

79. 7 assholes plus every Republican is still less than 60.

They do not have enough votes to extend the cuts.

All they can do is vote *against* Democratic legislation that would extend the cuts for those making less than $250K a year. And if we can't spin a vote *against* a middle-class tax cut against them, what good are we as a political party anyway?

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Response to dawg (Reply #79)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

99. In anything that must be done there are always at least seven assholes

and they aren't always the same assholes because folks are captured by different industries so the onus kind of rotates around which leaves me to believe there are really more like 35-40 assholes but most of them play hero at one time or the other. Sure, there are some that are consistently assholes but their running mates change based on the issue and in any event they will be propped up by the party rather than culled which makes messaging a fucking mess because it is hard to attack the opposition without turning on "our own" so we end up tip toeing around the opposition and trying to make hay off of nuance that you still cannot keep on message or implement.

To make matters worse, the few actual liberals always fall in line so the center of gravity goes to the cats that have to be herded and they dictate the terms and still go off the reservation and in turn the party supports them.

At this point we don't have much of a party, just a confederation of folks that are anti-Republicans for widely varying reasons generally led by folks with a high level of ideological agreement with the opposition on fiscal and martial issues in a fiscally and militarily dominant society and instead focusing on social issues that won't impact bottom lines in any serious fashion and increase our ability to wage war.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #99)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:23 PM

105. Your genius and insight should not go unnoticed. I notice. -eom

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:00 PM

81. President Obama needs to put maximum pressure on these Senators

Call them into the Oval Office alone, refuse to campaign for them, etc etc.

If he doesn't.... I don't know what to say. Sometimes President Obama needs to act somewhat like LBJ, LBJ's many faults notwithstanding.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:00 PM

82. Done - Will Call Everyday

grrr...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:01 PM

83. I didn't like him very much at the time but you know who would never put up with this?

LBJ, that's who.

He would have summoned these 7 spineless weasels to the oval office, grabbed them by the balls (well, most of them anyway) and told them they goddamn well better support the elimination of those tax cuts or there would be consequences. And there would be, too. The executive branch has a lot of power in the direction of government resources.

Johnson really understood how the senate worked and he knew how to get votes there. Maybe Obama should have spent another few years there before running for president. Or he needs an ally in the Senate. Somebody like LBJ.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #83)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:14 PM

89. Unfortunately, many of them do not know how the Democratic Party works...


I wonder why they call themselves "Democrats". Democrats basically believe in a progressive income tax so they can alleviate the inequalities in our society, such as unemployment, food, housing, health, education, etc. If you forget that, we might as well fold up the tent...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:09 PM

87. @#$%&*!!!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:17 PM

90. Many folk in 2010 were willing to play this game

for the extension in unemployment. I was not among them. That being said, what are those same supporters of the extension last time willing to have the Republicans hold hostage this time? Everybody's got a price ... what's yours?

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Response to theaocp (Reply #90)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:32 PM

93. It's probably "Defense" cuts this time, as they are the ones who will scream waaaaaaaay louder than

the poor, who don't contribute to campaigns and don't vote, and the elderly who are mostly uninformed, and education since it's being privatized and everyone hates teachers anyway.

The military will be the squeakiest wheel this time, so cuts to the military will be the bargaining chip if they do the budget before ending the Bush Tax Cuts.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:30 PM

92. This is how the 1%/Third Way makes Dems ineffective: Infiltrate. Divide. Conquer.

The Third Way Party is not the Democratic Party.

It is the 2nd party option of, for, and by, the 1%.

∀/☮ccupy

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Response to Zorra (Reply #92)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:36 PM

96. Buy just enough Democrats to keep them defensive, but don't give them enough $$$$$ to

authentically empower them against Republicans, ergo, Blue Dogs and DINOs.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

98. If this is true..?


The Democrats are playing with fire. Just like the Repubs with the immigration bill, many in the Democratic Party do not want to see these taxcuts extended once again. This is a deal breaker.

President Obama is working on his legacy. He may win the election by keeping this a secret until after the election, but his name will be mud if he cannot make a courageous stand. It is not a courageous act extending the Bush taxcuts. He has already said he would not extend them. Why should we not believe him?

Maybe everyone is just jumping to conclusions? The President will not permit these taxcuts to be extended again by making a deal with the Repubs. Will he??

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Response to kentuck (Reply #98)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:17 PM

109. That's exactly what it means. Not just the budget, but EVERYTHING on the calendar, just like 2010.

~

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:48 PM

102. Forced to vote the 1%ers are easy to spot no matter their affiliations

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:04 PM

107. kick nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:15 PM

108. Pryor's office was very perfunctory and kind of snotty.

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Response to patrice (Reply #108)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:22 PM

112. Thank you for calling.

Call again.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #112)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:04 PM

136. Yes. every day.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #112)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:05 PM

137. Gonna go ahead and add the Kansas "representation" to my call list just to needle them. nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:20 PM

120. Well they can do nothing and the taxes will go back then and there.

But the middle clase will suffer from this. The rich won't feel it.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #120)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:41 PM

125. If the Democrats win...?

can they pass another taxcut for the middle-class, if that is a problem?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #125)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:04 PM

135. Well the house would need to go first by law and the house is...

...likely to stay gop. So we will have to see.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #135)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:07 PM

138. Maybe they will and maybe they won't...

I think the House has a good chance at going Democratic.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:21 PM

121. Same old shit.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #121)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:40 PM

124. And the "same old shit" is bad ..

or us and the country.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #124)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:09 PM

139. Indeed and it makes me weary.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #139)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:33 PM

141. Me too...


And there is only one person that can relieve the weariness. That is President Barack Obama. Unfortunately, Barack Obama is not an expert on economics. He listens to the experts. Because he is a pragmatist. He will do what they say will work. If they tell him that if the taxcuts are permitted to expire, it could throw the economy into another recession, then he will keep the taxcuts in place. He will not do what his heart tells him is the right thing to do. He will do the political thing that he thinks will work. However, he will not make his decision until after the election. I would like to have his decision today, before the election. But I am only one voter.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:34 PM

130. Just got a beg letter from Tester. Guess what my answer was. n/t

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:57 PM

134. I tried calling Mary Landrieu's office all day

Phones are busy. I e-mailed her office, as well as David Vitter's (like that is going to do any good).

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:18 PM

148. it's all BS

they just don't want to raise taxes on THEMSELVES

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:54 PM

150. Who do I call? And what are their phone #'s??

My fingers are getting itchy.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:05 AM

151. Sens. Jon Tester (Mont.) Joe Manchin (W.Va.) Ben Nelson (Neb.) Jim Webb (Va.) Claire McCaskill.

Who are the other two?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:10 AM

152. like I have been saying...

 

I have been saying this ever since I joined this forum and every single person has called me crazy and unreasonable.... VOTE OUT EVERY SINGLE INCUMBENT!!!!! LET THE PEOPLE TAKE THE POWER BACK!!!! GATHER AROUND CONGRESS ON ELECTION NIGHT AND LET THEM KNOW WHO REALLY RUNS THIS COUNTRY!!! or lets just give it away to whoever has the savvy to talk us out of it....

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Response to geekd (Reply #152)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:43 AM

153. That's T-Bagger strategy

Its late and I'm too tired to remember why right now.hahaha Something like flushing out all the Progressives out so the RW can install all new T-Bagger toadies. They got the money and machinery for that.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #153)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:30 AM

171. toadies huh??

 

last I heard, you generally get fired for leaving a job undone before vacation. which is exactly what the entire body of congress did. remember the mpaa chairman calling out congressman for the taking of kickbacks. i could be crazy it was hard to garner anything else out of what he said. FLUSH EVERYONE OUT!!! everyone is invited to the party!! the party of accountability..... lemme guess, they got software for that huh???

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Response to geekd (Reply #152)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:13 PM

163. No. We need to establish OUR OWN bona fides & what you demand is the opposite of doing so. Critical

empirical analysis developed through concrete local grassroots' relationships is what is needed, not scatter-shot kill-'em-all-let-god-sort-'em-out "strategy".

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Response to patrice (Reply #163)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:26 AM

170. quite the contrary

 

This sends a message to anyone who decides to go on vacation and leave a job undone. Last I heard that gets you fired in the real world. concrete local grassroots sounds great for politics, I am sold. But in practice, not just theory it does not always work out like that. and its bullshit that the default vote is usually the incumbent, call it ignorant human behavior. We are a creature of habit and ignorance alike, imagine that. they need to understand "they are here for us", not us for "their paycheck and vacation home"!!!! last I heard they were called "public servants". so why do they get away with giving tax breaks to entities that have no business getting them, and not being able to manage out our tax money into budgets. does politic science include 4 function math in it?? we send a message this year because the economy isn't getting any better.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:21 AM

154. Well,

so much for the T-Party's accusations of Democrats being socialists...
I hate to say it, but I guess the Democratic party really is nothing more than the lesser of two evils.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:41 AM

159. Some fax numbers

14062527768
14064529586
14065867647
14064495462
14067824717
14062573974
14063658836
1406728-193
1202-248594
13043437144
13042848681
13042623039

Free faxes!

http://faxzero.com/
http://www.gotfreefax.com/
Email, for obvious reasons, is restricted to constituents. Phones and faxes are not. For critical issues, consider adding faxes to your activist arsenal. Sometimes staff will ask your address when you call. If you don’t live in Oregon, explain that you are calling or faxing because of Medicare privatization.

A note on free faxes: they must be from a valid email address. When you send a fax, they send it first to your email address and give you a link to click on. Only clicking the link you got by email will send the fax. Limit 2 per day, no more than 3 pages. For $10/month you can send more faxes and more pages. If you want to ramp up your activities as an online activist, and can afford it, this would be a good investment.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:56 PM

162. kick nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:56 AM

168. Raise taxes across the board, it's the only way.

 

The only way out of this mess is to go back to Clinton era tax levels on all Americans. Also ending all subsidies and tax deductions. I work two job's and already get royally fucked over, but it has to be done.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:01 AM

169. Dear Senators Blue Dog:

Kindly read, mark, and inwardly digest Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz!

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