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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:33 AM

Toon- 40% of middle class wealth wiped out!

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Reply Toon- 40% of middle class wealth wiped out! (Original post)
n2doc Jun 2012 OP
xchrom Jun 2012 #1
Rectangle Jun 2012 #19
lob1 Jun 2012 #40
nashville_brook Jun 2012 #2
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #3
HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #4
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #5
Blanks Jun 2012 #10
tiny elvis Jun 2012 #16
Blanks Jun 2012 #21
Red Crow Jun 2012 #38
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #18
Blanks Jun 2012 #22
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #27
Blanks Jun 2012 #28
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #30
Blanks Jun 2012 #34
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #36
Blanks Jun 2012 #44
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #45
Blanks Jun 2012 #47
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #48
Blanks Jun 2012 #49
girl gone mad Jun 2012 #26
midnight Jun 2012 #37
snot Jun 2012 #23
laundry_queen Jun 2012 #24
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #46
Blanks Jun 2012 #29
girl gone mad Jun 2012 #41
Blanks Jun 2012 #42
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #31
Ishoutandscream2 Jun 2012 #25
99Forever Jun 2012 #6
mlevans Jun 2012 #7
Peaceful Protester Jun 2012 #8
Blue Owl Jun 2012 #9
yardwork Jun 2012 #20
cstanleytech Jun 2012 #11
bighughdiehl Jun 2012 #17
bluesbassman Jun 2012 #12
Dont call me Shirley Jun 2012 #13
Peaceful Protester Jun 2012 #14
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #33
grasswire Jun 2012 #35
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #39
HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #43
BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #15
Stuart G Jun 2012 #32

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 AM

1. du rec. nt

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Response to xchrom (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:31 PM

19. Anyone know how the top 1% fared?

Did they also lose 40% of their wealth?

I'm sure sure they also suffered right along with us..

Right?


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Response to Rectangle (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:57 AM

40. Their wealth went up by 40% of our wealth.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:50 AM

2. k and r

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:14 AM

3. K&R. Thanks for posting. n/t

 

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:22 AM

4. The Great Risk Shift by Jacob S Hacker.

Everyone should read this book.

The theft (and let's call it what it is) didn't just happen; it was planned for decades as a response to things getting a bit more leveled out post-Great Depression.

All of the wealth went SOMEwhere . . . just not to your pockets.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:58 AM

5. +1

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:14 PM

10. All of the wealth didn't necessarily 'go' somewhere.

The biggest investment that most people have is their home. When the housing bubble burst and a lot of people were upside down on their homes (or whatever it's called when you owe more on it than it's worth) that was not an example of wealth going somewhere else; it literally dissipated.

I'm not saying that the banks aren't evil or anything; I'm just saying that they didn't financially benefit every time a homeowner lost equity in their home.

I like the cartoon. What really sucks about the entire thing is that the $7.7 trillion sweetheart loan program between the FED and the banks is construed as Obama's fault even though it happened on Dubya's watch.

I'm not sure why more attention isn't given to that.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:41 PM

16. debt is not dissipation. debt is your ass

as in, 'they will take it out of'
misplaced blame is not what really sucks, partisans

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Response to tiny elvis (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:58 PM

21. The resale value of homes decreased.

The debt was taken on when the loan was made. There are no guarentees that something you buy today will be worth what you paid for it tomorrow.

We just don't expect it to happen to our homes. It happens to our vehicles all the time.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:44 AM

38. Where some of the $ went............

Some people took out equity loans on their "above water " homes and then spent the money on lavish vacations etc.I personally know two people who did this.One got $90,000 and one $60,000.The first one had her house foreclosed ,the second one is way underwater.That is where some of the money went.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:23 PM

18. they didn't financially benefit every time a homeowner lost equity in their home.

Sure they did. Not only did they get paid for it through Bush's bailout but it turns out they got enough to buy every home in America, then they STILL went to the homeowners and acted like they never got paid a dime and want their money.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

22. In the end they benefitted.

However, they stood to lose money every time a loan defaulted. They didn't benefit every time a homeowner's home value decreased.

Their ass was on the line too. However, congress and the white house had their back, but that's not the same as saying they benefitted every time someone lost value in their home.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the bankers took advantage, the real problem was with the behavior of the people in the government. From the financial institutions deregulations up to the bailout.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:46 PM

27. they stood to lose money every time a loan defaulted.

No, because they took out bets the instruments linked to them would fail. Even with an S&P AAA rating.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:08 PM

28. I had forgotten about that aspect. They had insurance.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:39 PM

30. More than that, they had Credit Default Swaps

So they traded on future failed foreclosures and were making money by signing people up for low interest loans and then ballooning the payments to unpayable amounts so they could steal their homes and resell them at inflated amounts which were also designed to fail. This drove up local real estate values allowing them to justify higher loans linked to instruments they sold which led to higher commissions.

This is why banks that lend money were barred under Glass Steagall from futures tradings the way investment banks operate. They gamed the system for the commissions alone, passing on the debt to the whole damn planet.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:29 PM

34. A lot of they's and them's.

Obviously not everyone was involved in such an elaborate scheme.

How many people do you think we're involved in this? Who are they? Are the names of these people actually available information?

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Response to Blanks (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:16 AM

36. Are the names of these people actually available information?

Oh sure. Just get a list of who got raises.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:39 AM

44. So why don't the occupy people go egg their mansions or something?

I guess everyone has bought into this whole 'corporations are people too (my friend)' philosophy and so people can't even be a minor nuisance to the individual people who caused the meltdown.

Or at least publish a list of these people's names and home addresses so that everyone can visit their houses on google earth. Find out what political donations they've made etc.

If we're all so pissed off at them, and they can be identified why aren't we picking on them at least a little? The specific people; if we can easily figure out who they are.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:38 PM

45. Oh sure. Like they live in tract homes

Many live on estates or in highrises where you can't even get past the doorman.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:10 PM

47. That's not really the point.

It's kind of like dealing with serial killers. You say the victims name, try to build sympathy in the heart of the serial killer....

OK, it's the opposite of dealing with a serial killer. We expect for corporations to be faceless and while some despise them; others admire them and yearn to be a part of them. Everyone wants to distance themself from a scumbag.

I think if you could feature a fat cat a week, show where they live on google earth, illustrate how they have benefitted from the meltdown, highlight how much they have given, and to whom, in political contributions.

You've created an image that you can point to. Think Glen Beck and George Soros. So you create this image (actually several images) and say how much the conservatives love him etc.

There just isn't as much emotion stirred up toward Bank of America (or any other entity that is represented by a logo) as can be stirred up toward something with a face.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #47)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:35 PM

48. True

But the accusation by posting specific info would be that it's like publishing the private addresses of abortion doctors.

I don't need to know where they live.

I want to see them frogmarched through the NYSE in front of their fellow travellers who admire them.

But then, I'm the type that thinks it would be really cool to have a bunch of guys burst in on the NYSE like the Untouchables and say, "This is a raid!"

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #48)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:10 PM

49. Set up the frogmarch.

Let me know when it happens.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:37 PM

26. All of these bank losses were socialized.

Bush and Obama spent $29 Trillion bailing out the banks.

The banks are now flush with cash so they can swoop in and repurchase assets at pennies on the dollar. This is the same scam the rentier class has perpetuated for centuries now. Load up the masses with debts that can never be repaid, creating a bubble as excess bank credit creation drives asset inflation and speculation. Once the bubble pops due to lack of currency in the real economy to cover these bank bubble debts, shift the losses onto the public balance sheet. When everyone is broke from the recession caused by the reckless financial sector, the banks are positioned to start the cycle again.

The only way to stop it is to rein in the banks and have the government spend sufficient amounts of currency into the economy to sustain healthy levels of economic activity.

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:19 AM

37. It's worked out real well for them.....

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:49 PM

23. The losses on individual homes were just a fraction

of the GAINS they made on derivatives. The mortgage bubble was bad, but it's almost a red herring.

The real crime consists in that Goldman Sachs et al. were buying insurance policies -- credit derivatives -- against losses on mortgages they didn't own and knew would go bad. AIG issued those policies and didn't have the money to pay on them when the bubble burst; but we bailed out AIG, so Goldman got paid, when it should have had to eat its losses.

This is simple fact; and the same basic thing went on and is still going on all over the world.

So yes, the money did not go poof. The losses on mortgages, and the premiums paid for the derivatives, were just a small price paid by certain players to win big on "bets" they knew would go bad. Which the US gov't made good on, at your and my expense.

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Response to snot (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:09 PM

24. Not only that

They made a lot of money shorting those same derivatives. They were bundling toxic assets, selling them, then betting against them. They made a freaking killing.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:49 PM

46. The numbers were astronomical

I've tried to tell people a tiny percentage on this is huge incentive by pointing out that in the days when regular savings accounts actually paid 4% that meant a million dollar deposit would pay you $40,000 a year in interest. That's what Republicans are fighting to make tax free. Capital Gains. Money from money. The main revenue of the idle rich.

These people know the math and were skimming from billions. Every transaction gave them a cut.

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Response to snot (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:19 PM

29. Technically the government 'invested' in AIG.

and are expecting a return on the investment.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/08/news/companies/aig-treasury-bailout/index.htm

Of course that was last month.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 05:48 AM

41. Obvious bankster propoganda.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203960804577241641930529830.html

AIG just conducted a two-fold master class of i) how to confuse Wall Street of having "superb" earnings, and ii) how to avoid paying any corporate taxes for years to come. Because as part of the company's just announced massive $19.8 billion profit, a whopping $17.8 billion was nothing short of the oldest tax accounting gimmick in the book - the release of a valuation allowance (i.e., deferred tax liability vs deferred tax asset conversion). In other words, apples to apples, the real Net Income attributable to shareholders was not $19.8 billion but realistically $2 billion, which would compare to last year's $11.2 billion if only it was not for a $13.5 billion gain on divested business posted in Q4 2011, when the company again was fudging numbers like a drunken sailor. Anyway, we are confident even the algos will figure it out eventually. But the real slap in the face coming from this bailed out company is that as a result of this accounting change, AIG will essentially not pay any taxes for years to come, most likely until its next insolvency.

Reuters explains: "Bailed-out insurer American International Group reported a profit of $19.8 billion for the fourth quarter, after an accounting determination that it is likely to post future profits let it release the value of some tax benefits. The move essentially means AIG will not pay tax on tens of billions of dollars of income in the coming years, thanks to benefits that stem from its financial crisis-era losses." In other words, the company that is still primarily held by the Treasury, i.e., America's taxpayers, has just repaid its generous bailout provider by halting all tax payments on future profits, courtesy of some bespectacled tax accountant in some dark room agreeing that AIG can now use its NOL carryforward in perpetuity, as the firm is now "viable."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bailed-out-aig-posts-huge-beat-tax-gimmick-will-not-pay-taxes-years

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #41)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:19 AM

42. Obviously, but if the government bought stock

And then sold that stock at a profit (regardless of the sleaziness of the company where they bought the stock) doesn't the government then make a little profit?

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Response to snot (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:46 PM

31. Let's not forget the role S&P played

And when their name came up over and over as having taken money to provide AAA ratings they decided to head off criminal proceedings by lowering the credit rating of the entire United States so any attempt to expose them could be called a retaliation for their lowering the credit rating of the United States.

To quote Malloy, Have I said yet tonight how much I hate these people?

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:14 PM

25. Thank you, Hugh. I will look for it at my local socialist library

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:04 AM

6. K&R

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:49 AM

7. Bad toon.

Toons is s'posed to be funny. Toons is s'posed to make us laugh.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:33 AM

8. Divide and Conquer


The privileged few once used pro-corporate conservative policies to "divide and conquer" different groups of European Immigrants while taking from the Native American.

Today, pro-corporate conservative policies have been attributed with the housing market collapse and for an approximately 40% loss in wealth of the Middle Class.

These policies allowed corporate interests to gamble on Wall Street in an unregulated market while using other peoples money or mortgage derivatives.

The privileged few are not yet satiated. And with money left to raid, the Middle Class is still the target. Conservatives now have Social Security and Medicare in their crosshairs.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:17 PM

9. Remember, it's the Union's fault

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Response to Blue Owl (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:33 PM

20. +100000

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:49 PM

11. Mission Accomplished nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:54 PM

17. Yep....

mission accomplished, indeed. You read my mind.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:03 PM

12. Wuerker's been knocking 'em outta the park lately. K&R

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 02:11 PM

13. The middle class just "lost the money"

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:12 PM

14. Some people blame Bush for the state of the union, but...

Bush was actually a good president in that he sought to bring Republican policies to fruition. The problem was not in the execution of these policies, but the actual policies themselves; Republican policies produce Global Wars AND Global Recessions!!

NOTE: According to economist Mike Kimel, the 5 former Democratic Presidents (Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, and Truman) all reduced public debt as a share of GDP, while the last 4 Republican Presidents (H. Bush, G. Bush, Reagan, and Ford), all oversaw an increase in the country's indebtedness.

Summary: Democratic policies are far better for the overall economy than Republican policies.

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Response to Peaceful Protester (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:53 PM

33. Democrat policies??? Nt

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:54 PM

35. they can't help themselves, apparently n/t

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Response to grasswire (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:35 AM

39. So it would seem...

If I infiltrated freerepublic, I like to think I could, for a short time, keep up the ruse. But, for some reason, they cannot stop themselves from saying "democrat" party, no matter how many times they are corrected.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:20 AM

43. PP is no freeper and has edited the post.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 03:36 PM

15. in a depression, money returns to its rightful owners:

the booj-wah-zee

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:55 PM

32. k & r thanks for posting...nt

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