How much did health insurance raise rates on an annual basis BEFORE Obamacare???

[samrock]

I bet it is less than now.. Anyone have the data???

[Skittles]

1. there is no way to spin a 22% increase

it sucks in every way possible

[uponit7771]

10. not if it always gone up that amount every year

[Skittles]

18. IT HASN'T

[uponit7771]

20. You're right, as the poster stated below its been 5%

[Skittles]

21. the health insurance companies have it made

HUGE price increases AND taxpayer money

EXACTLY what thinking people predicted

it's DISGUSTING

[uponit7771]

22. You're right again, something better than nothing for 20 million people. I would have NO HCI if it..

... wasn't for ACA... even though the A and the C are pretty suspect RIGHT NOW.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. You don't have to spin it. It's anecdote, not data.

Overall healthcare costs went up 5% this year. The number of people who will see this hypothetical 22% increase is trivial.

[Throd]

17. Mine is slated to increase by $3,600 next year. Not trivial.

[uponit7771]

19. "It's anecdote, not data"...

[Travis_0004]

32. I'm sure if yours went up 22% you would not find it trivial.

[Foggyhill]

27. The 22% is not the average, so what is joy point

[Skittles]

36. WTF does joy point mean?

yes, some increases are less and some increases are MUCH MORE

[Foggyhill]

54. The average in pocket cost is not 22% for all aca users

And it's one year vs
10% for health care accross the whole Industry for a decade pre aca


So comparing apples and orange and intellectually dishonest
Bye ignoring you now

[Skittles]

55. LOL

cannot handle the facts?

good riddance!

[JoePhilly]

28. What is it State by State?

[TomJulie]

38. No solid for sure cut & dry info....

from my employer, yet!! And that's because they don't know the exact figures they will have to deal with per employes.. All we know at this time is, in 2017 be ready for a big increase in weekly check deductions and the co-pay will go up, most likely by a large amount.

Before Obamacare was passed our co-pay was $20 per covered person, that's it. Now it's over $700 per person paid before any co-pay kicks in. Already, it's almost like not having healthcare and throwing your money down a pit for nothing.

The company I work for was using Blue Cross & Blue Shield but went to Cigna 2 years ago for a better rate.

Heathcare may not mean much to many of you here, but for me and my family, it's a BIG, BIG thing. It's as important as any issue to us.

[Skittles]

40. OK back off

Obamacare is NOT *CAUSING* THE INCREASES

that is a REPUKE TALKING POINT

[TomJulie]

60. Really?

Care to explain this?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/10/25/arizona-obamacare-premiums/

[Skittles]

61. I am not denying they are going up

but HEALTH CARE costs are not going up BECAUSE of Obamacare

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp

the PROFIT needs to be taken OUT of the American healthcare system

[csziggy]

2. I have no idea - before Obamacare I could not get insurance for any amount

Until my husband went to work so we could both get health insurance. We both were in the "pre-existing condition" category so as long as I ran my own business we went without health coverage. We paid all our doctor and hospital bills out of pocket, including a full reconstruction of a shoulder.

Obamacare allowed my husband to retire from a job he had begun to hate that was destroying his mental and physical health. This coming year we will both be eligible for Medicare but the two years that we have been on Obamacare may have saved my husband's life. If he'd had to keep working for that corporation, he would have stressed out and not have been the man I love.

[TomJulie]

47. Obamacare

Obamacare didn't allow your husband to retire. Your husband was fortunate enough to be able to afford the monthly premiums to at least have some insurance to fall back on if a catastrophic illness, etc occurs. If he has the Bronze plan, which is the most affordable, many health providers won't take it...and even if they do, the out of pocket deductible exceeds $5000 until any co-pay kicks in. You may as well junk Obamacare and just pay as you go rather than the outrageous premiums and not use them. But if you do, there comes the Obamacare penalty.

[csziggy]

48. You don't know what you are talking about

On our retirement income we could not have afforded the premiums. We get a subsidy that makes our out of pocket for the premium about the same as what he was paying for his employer provided insurance.

We have a Silver plan which is equivalent to what he got from his employer - the same deductible, pretty much the same drug coverage.

Without the subsidies and the negotiation through Obamacare, my husband would not have been able to retire until we both were eligible for Medicare. Since I am six months younger than he is, he would have had to work another two and a half years. As I said, it was a job he had grown to hate because of the corporate policies and his health was suffering as a result of their disregard for the needs of the workers.

With the subsidies, he could afford to retire and maintain the same coverage as we had when he was working for about the same price - in fact this year our premium is significantly less than it was last year. I haven't gotten the information on 2017 yet, but it will only be for me and only for six months.

So all in all, you made some VERY incorrect assumptions without any information. Try informing yourself before you go off on a wild goose chase.

[uponit7771]

51. This is crazy on its face, without Obamacare I know of SBOs who wouldn't be able to retire...

... why deny this is so?

tia

[Hoyt]

3. Actually, for years premiums increased 20-30% or more, and people compensated by increasing

deductibles, copays, signing up with HMOs, etc.

Poster above is right, there is no way to spin it except it's not abnormal.

In fact, Medicare's Part B premium will be increasing roughly 22% as well in 2017 (those who are also on Social Security won't see the entire Part B increase because the increase is capped by the amount of COLA they receive).

Point is Obamacare is not the problem, it's the entire system including Medicare, Providers, suppliers, drug companies, and even patients. The entire system is going to have to be revamped before there is any significant relief, and that will take decades. And, part of that is we consumers are going to have to make some sacrifices too.

[BlueCaliDem]

4. Now, more than ever, we need a Federal Public Option. I'm hoping President Clinton will get it

through and improve ObamaCare. That's why we need to give her a Congress that won't obstruct her.

[Hoyt]

5. Agree 100% with Public Option, but I don't believe premiums will be that much lower, initially.

However, it will be the start of a more rational system.

[BlueCaliDem]

6. A Federal Public Option would be almost the same as Medicare-for-All, in that the Federal Gov't will

offer a cheaper alternative that private insurance companies must compete with - as I understand it. I really do prefer a Public Option as opposed to Medicare-for-All. I prefer to have them both simultaneously. Between a government-run health insurance and Medicare, we can successfully get rid of private health insurers since they can't live off of solely wealthy people who appear to be the only people who can buy their overpriced policies.

The public health insurance option, also known as the public insurance option or the public option, is a proposal to create a government-run health insurance agency which would compete with other private health insurance companies within the United States. The public option is not the same as publicly funded health care, but was proposed as an alternative health insurance plan offered by the government. The public option was initially proposed for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, but was removed after Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) threatened a filibuster.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health_insurance_option

Of course that f***er, LIEberman, was against the Public Option.

[still_one]

33. Medicare for all is more like Single Payer. The reason why it is more practicle to embrace

something like that is because the system is already in place

Unfortunately, in this environment, unless something changes in a major way with both houses of Congress, I remain skeptical that it will happen.

What is very doable in the short term though is increase the income level that someone would qualify for a subsidy, and factor in certain expenses such as rent/mortgage etc. in determining subsidy

[scscholar]

35. But Medicare still allows people to pay for coverage out of pocket...

to unfairly get better care, so it isn't single payer since there's more than one payer.

[still_one]

44. Medicare is a type of Single Payer

[uponit7771]

23. It would account for about 10% of current premiums, the rest of the money isn't going to HCI's

... its going to pharm, hospitals groups and doctors

Get those to accept half of what they're being paid now and we have the affordable part of the A and some of the C in the ACA

[Hoyt]

45. That's about what I think, although I think the "savings" would be more like 6% off premiums, and

that assumes a bunch of stuff falls in place.

I just don't think the savings in premiums will be much. I don't see people being happy because their ACA premium went from $600 a month to $550, with a 20% increase the next year. Cutting fees will be tougher than we think, unless we decide to take some tough stances.

But, I think a government dominated system allows us to do what is necessary to make the system affordable, even if -- and I hate to say it at my age -- we have to do some rationing, give people better options for euthanasia (my preference), say we are not going to pay for some drugs and procedures, etc.

How to reach consensus on this is tough.

[uponit7771]

46. You're 100% right, I was giving the gov part of HCI a cut too but we'd have to have some HCI and the

... feds would take 3 - 4%.

The tuff stances would be maybe making doctors take a middle class wage or increasing the use of nurse practitioners for certain issues that people go into the e-room for or increase the number of urgent care.

There seems to be a rational solution to all of this for a country that put a man on the moon before I was born...

Sounds like the tougher part would be who wouldn't get AS rich as they have been

[Vinca]

7. I can only offer my personal history of the nightmare pre-Obamacare.

We are self-employed and had a private policy for more than 20 years. It was affordable even though it had a huge deductible. In 2000 my husband was tested for diabetes. Just tested. After the insurance company got the bill from the doctor our premium went from about $600 a month to $1200 a month even though they had never paid a dime on our behalf in 20+ years. All attempts at reason with them failed so from that time until Obamacare, we were unable to afford coverage. Fortunately we survived. The greedy insurance companies will quickly go back to their old tricks if the GOP gets its wish.

[uponit7771]

24. +1, I would have NO HCI if it wasn't for the ACA ... I benefitted after I advocated for it because..

.... what my SIL went through and now I'm going through something similar but seperate with health.

[blm]

8. From 2000-2010, health insurance premiums increased rapidly, some up to 150%.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/

[ProfessorGAC]

9. At Your High Number. . .

. . .that's a 10.7% annual increase. Not as bad as 22% but still pretty significant.

[blm]

11. There was an overall decrease in rates in years after it began …this could be an adjustment

and also could be insurance industry manipulations. They have their convenient scapegoat for any rate hikes they impose. People tend to believe the headlines. 40-50% of the population will blame anything on Obama.

[ProfessorGAC]

62. I Don't Doubt It

It's a wholly unnecessary layer of profit taking that just gums up the works for efficient healthcare. I put nothing past them

[Foggyhill]

29. But is 22% the average for everyone, that makes

A huge difference
Also, there is a lot more sicker people enrolled now which increases costs for everyone else
There is also the fact the insurance companies and hospitals are essentially trying to fleece the gov. People are just collateral damage

[ProfessorGAC]

63. Didn't Say Otherwise

10.7% per year is huge! So, there is something amiss in a system where the year over year costs increase by 3x of overall inflation. Especially since that's part of overall inflation. If those costs were reined in a bit, the overall inflation number would be lower and the multiple would still be the same.

The extra layer of transactions makes for a broken system.

[Foggyhill]

64. That I agree on, US healthcare is a mess

And ACA is just a band aid on a seething wound

Health care costs have been out of control For a long time

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. It's impossible to use the words "average insurance rates" usefully in a sentence.

Insurers who raise their rates will lose subscribers - it will always be a moving target. If three insurers raise their rates, the fourth will get all the customers, so the net result for customers will be something far lower than 22%

What's indisputable is that in the last five years, overall healthcare cost inflation is lower than it has been for a very long time.

https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2016/07/29/health-premiums-after-obamacare-theyre-lower/

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Health care costs inflated 5% this year, and 3% last year. It averaged 8.5% from 1980-2007. nt

https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Your answer is 8.5%, much more than the 4% last two year avg. I hope you didn't bet too much. nt

[forthemiddle]

25. It won't matter

Because all the political ads have to do is run the tape where President Obama promises a $2,500 a year reduction.
In Wisconsin, Senator Johnson is already reminding people that Senator Fiengold bragged about being the deciding vote for Obamacare.
It's the political season, and both sides are gonna use all the ammunition they can find, and this seems almost gift wrapped (the timing) for the GOP.
Will it work? Hopefully not, but in his case Johnson won in the tea party election that capitalized on Obamacare.

[CentralMass]

26. A key point it that a selling point t for ACA was that it was going to reduce costs.

The Presidentity stated that the average family would save $2500/yr.

[JoePhilly]

30. Now define AVERAGE family.

And then, compare at the state level ... some of the largest increases are in red states that decided to not create their own exchanges or take the Medicaid money the ACA would give them.

Some red states are literally killing their constituents to hurt the ACA.

[ecstatic]

42. Keep in mind, the program was undermined by the supreme court

which allowed red states to opt out.

[uponit7771]

52. It has... PBO and dems have explained how it has already multiple times

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. Project 8.5% health care inflation from 2008 to today and it has.

In fact, the CBO estimates that it's saved *every individual* $1000.

Surprisingly good news about premiums

Three years before the ACA took effect, health insurance premiums were increasing by 10 percent to 12 percent each year, and the rate of the uninsured was growing.

Today, even as news about big premium increases for 2017 raises concerns about the Affordable Care Act’s long-term health, an analysis released last week in the journal Health Affairs seeks to put things in perspective. The upshot: Things could be worse.

It turns out that the average premiums in the individual market actually dropped when the ACA was implemented.

“Average premiums for the second-lowest cost silver-level (SLS) marketplace plan in 2014, which serves as a benchmark for ACA subsidies, were between 10 and 21 percent lower than average individual market premiums in 2013, before the ACA…,” write researchers from the Brookings Institute.

And in 2016 – two years into the marketplaces’ operation – premiums are still lower than they were in the individual insurance market in 2013. They’re 20 percent below the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) original projections, write co-authors of the analysis, Paul Ginsburg and Loren Adler.

In addition to lower than expected premiums, ACA plans include a host of benefits many policies didn’t have before the law took effect. That, along with a guarantee of coverage for all who apply for health insurance and restrictions on medical underwriting should have caused a precipitous spike in the cost of health plans.

These results are not what many experts expected.

Researchers give credit for the downward pressure on prices to a host of factors: Competition created by an insurance market that expanded to include millions more customers, greater authority built into the law for lawmakers to review insurer’s premium rate increases, and a cap on the percentage of revenue insurers can use for overhead and administration.

More importantly, insurers were insulated from financial loss by the law’s risk corridor and reinsurance programs, the latter of which the Commonwealth Fund claims reduced premiums by as much as 14 percent over the three years it’s been in place (it expires after this year).

Source: https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2016/07/29/health-premiums-after-obamacare-theyre-lower/
Follow us: @EyeOnInsurance on Twitter | healthinsurance.org on Facebook

[cilla4progress]

31. There is

Subsidy will go up for those who receive it, so they won't actually pay more out of pocket.

[Skittles]

37. yes

taxpayers can now help insurance companies with their obscene profits

[onecaliberal]

34. Obama is NOT RUNNING

[ecstatic]

41. I had a individual plan and it would raise by 20%+ every year

I'm on a group plan now, but I suspect most people who are actually on obamacare (and not just talking shit from the sidelines) realize that the skyrocketing costs existed before 2009. Especially those who have pre-existing conditions. I'm confident that the dems will fix the problem somehow.

[LenaBaby61]

49. I'd throw the ball back into ....

The GOP's court, and ask them what pre tell are they going to replace Obamacare WITH? And secondly, are they SURE that the 22 million insured adults/children/young adults will have health insurance once they replace Obamacare with medical savings accounts or with NOTHING. Also, ask the GOP what's gonna become of those with pre-existing conditions that many health insurers won't cover due to those pre-existing conditions, and ask them what will become of those young adults who are in their 20's who won't be on their parents insurance?

I swear, if Democrats don't have a spine on this and fight BACK

[JCMach1]

50. Bigly

[bhikkhu]

56. Google says:

A hotlink from http://www.allhealth.org/sourcebookcontent.asp?CHID=67

There's plenty of data out there, with or without spin. From my own experience, I do remember my employer (with some 5000 insured in a self-funded company plan) in 2000 practically begging employees and their families to not go to the doctor unless really necessary, because expenses were going through the roof. Two years later the whole thing crashed and burned, they liquidated the fund and went to a more standard private insurance with a payroll deduction and a big yearly out-of-pocket.

The "health insurance crisis" was a big campaign issue in the last 5 presidential campaigns, and remains to be solved. 22% would be a huge increase, though that's unlikely to be a valid overall number. 10% would be a large number, but within the norm of the last few years.

Personally, I think their is a flaw in the whole system of insurance, which encourages blatant overcharging. As an example, I have a chip in my front tooth (from an accident at 10 years old). I've had the cap replaced four times. The first two were insured and I never saw the bill. The third time I was uninsured, and a local dentist fixed it in about 25 minutes, charged me $125 cash. The fourth time I was insured; it took about 20 minutes, the bill was $380, of which I paid an $80 deductible. I later saw my insurance had judged $220 to be their part, and the balance was written off or something. A dentist (or doctor) has every reason to overcharge when serving an insured patient, the insurance company has every reason to expect they are being overcharged, and the patient has little to no part in it, probably not even seeing the bill.

If any other part of the economy were so blindly run it would work as terribly.