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Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:29 PM

I am so utterly sick of this Third Way shit.

I come home from a tough day at work, and I get to read how I'm being free-traded by Obama and Halliburton - in secret, of course:


Obama Trade Document Leaked, Revealing New Corporate Powers And Broken Campaign Promises

In late May, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), chair of the Senate Finance Subcommittee on International Trade, introduced new legislation that would require the White House to share trade documents with all members of Congress and their qualified staff. The move was largely a symbolic act of protest against the secrecy the White House has imposed on a new trade deal, known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

The agency responsible for trade negotiations -- the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative -- had denied Wyden office access to any of the draft documents involved in the trade pact, offering an unusual legal argument that only a handful of members of Congress were permitted to view them. After Wyden introduced his legislation, however, USTR partially relented, allowing Wyden to see the documents, but not his staff.

"I would point out how insulting it is for them to argue that members of Congress are to personally go over to USTR to view the trade documents," Hoelzer said. "An advisor at Halliburton or the MPAA is given a password that allows him or her to go on the USTR website and view the TPP agreement anytime he or she wants."

The general public and most nonprofit organizations have no access to the documents, although a number of corporate officials can see them.

Obama's been a tragic disappointment, but I desperately want to vote for him if only to keep the Trust Fund Bully out of the White House. But, each day, I feel like I'm rooting to be smashed with a hammer instead of being thrown in a wood chipper.

This sucks.

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Reply I am so utterly sick of this Third Way shit. (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 OP
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:34 PM

1. Congratulations, you found the loophole.

I'm voting for Obama because he's a fucking fantastic President who deserves re-election.

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Response to tridim (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:35 PM

2. Poverty, homelessness and hunger are growing daily

And the only economic bills Obama gets through are austerity, free trade, and big bucks for bankers.

That ain't what I'd consider a success. But you're entitled to see those as positive attributes, I guess.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:52 PM

6. Ever heard of Congress??

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:55 PM

8. The Congress that rejected the three Bush "free" trade agreements

that Bush signed, because Democrats shut them down - but then voted to pass the same bills once Obama became their Cheerleader-in-Chief?

That Congress?

Yes I have. What of it?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:59 PM

10. Maybe

The Congress that rejected the three Bush "free" trade agreements

that Bush signed, because Democrats shut them down - but then voted to pass the same bills once Obama became their Cheerleader-in-Chief?

...we could bring Bush back. That would make HuffPo, Burr, and Issa happy!

USTR's refusal to share documents with congressional staffers has also raised the hackles of Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who agreed to co-sponsor Wyden's bill after his own staffer was turned away.

<...>

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has been more aggressive, leaking the entire text of the draft intellectual property chapter to the public on his website. Although the document had previously been available over the internet through legally dubious channels, Issa's posting was viewed as a political shot across the bow.

Public health experts and internet freedom advocates have bemoaned both the secretive negotiation process and the actual terms of the trade pact, which they claim threaten to drive up global medicine prices and curb online innovation.

Wyden and Issa are widely viewed as Capitol Hill allies of the tech community as a result of their efforts to block the Stop Online Piracy Act and its Senate partner, the Protect IP Act. The administration's refusal to share Trans-Pacific documents with Wyden for months sparked concern that Obama was selectively freezing out critics of the deal from the talks.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:01 PM

13. I totally

...we could bring Bush back. That would make HuffPo, Burr, and Issa happy!


...fail to see what that has to do with anything.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:04 PM

18. Suggestion:

I totally

...we could bring Bush back. That would make HuffPo, Burr, and Issa happy!


...fail to see what that has to do with anything.

Ask Issa. He's searching for gullibles!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:05 PM

19. Now THAT was funny!

You got me this time!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:13 PM

346. He found plenty of them when he introduced his bill to defend ACORN

So yes, there are lots of 'gullibles' in Congress, which is why we must do our job and make sure they know how the people feel about important issues like, otherwise they could end up being influenced by Republicans on policies.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:48 PM

42. It's: "I accept the 20 lashes because it is sooo much better than 40. Thank you master." nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #42)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:41 AM

102. No, it's: I'm not gullible to RW bullshit tactics. n/t



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Response to ProSense (Reply #102)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:05 AM

188. When I say I dont like our government's free-trade agreements,

and the response is "would you rather have George Bush back". That response is clearly, "I should be happy because it could be worse". That is not an argument and it has nothing to do with the RW.

The fact that I dont like my government's actions related to free-trade, the Patriot Act, domestic spying, drone killing, indefinite detentions, does not mean I am not a Democrat nor does it mean that I wont support Pres Obama for another term in office as some here want to believe to justify their vitriol (present company excepted).

I will support Pres Obama 100% but wont guarantee that I will agree with him 100%. And to ask otherwise is not very Democratic.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #188)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:11 PM

327. Now rick.

If you are going to go and be all logical and honest, why do you bother to post here?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #102)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

222. Then there are a couple of DUers who appear to be Obama-shills.

You can tell a right-wing shill because they never deviate from the party line, even when the party line is hard to defend -- like some fascist act like allowing corporations to have access to "secret" government information about international negotiations but denying that access to the representatives of the people who are part of the people's government.

Same for Obama-shills. They never deviate from the party line, and they always, always, recite the party line -- in perfect talking points -- even when the party line, such as the defense of giving corporations access to information that the people's representatives are not allowed to have -- is reprehensible and incompatible with even a facade of democracy.

It's as if the shills' posts were written for them by some professional or maybe even some public relations group.

And nary a word of doubt. They have an answer for everything.

Somehow, you would expect that if the shills were actually ordinary citizen DUers, they would disagree with the party line just once in a blue moon. And what is more, they would express opinions about things other than those that concern Obama and the party line -- like the latest gossip scandal.

I put one of these shills on Ignore/Do Not Disturb for a while but then I decided I would do other DUers a favor if I read his/her posts and responded. But sometimes it is very hard to respond without pointing out to other DUers just what the shill is doing and what he/she is. Very hard.

What do other DUers think should be the response to obvious shills, Democratic or Republican? Should we put them on ignore or ?????? It's easier to spot the Republican trolls. What about the Democratic shills?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:32 PM

230. And what about dipshits who will fall over themselves to launch hate at Obama?

Because, if you read the article instead of just the title, you will find that the problem isn't with Barack Obama, it's with the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. While this office does act as adviser to the president, they are not one and the same; and the president is actually the good guy here, in opening up transparency on what's going on in the USTR.

Look buddy. I know you're still butthurt that Ron Paul or Vermin Supreme or whoever your too-hip-for-you candidate was didn't win the election in 2008. I'm understanding of the fact that when you see the president, your first instinct is to think "that boy better get my order right, or no tip!" I even understand that despite spending time on a site called "DemocraticUnderground," your main interest seems to be in making sure to spread bullshit against democrats - which I'm certain will go far towards you getting whatever the hell it is you want (which you have thus far failed to express)

But I think maybe it's time you either jump those hurdles, or get off the track. 'Cause you're not going to make the team if your entire focus is on reading bullshit titles from the Woo-woo section of the internet and screeching about how godawful Obama is.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #230)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:48 PM

234. Your post is way off and

offensive. Alerted.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #234)


Response to SidDithers (Reply #236)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:15 PM

261. Sid you shill...

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #236)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:17 PM

263. bout the same

as your smug. I guess.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #234)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 03:44 PM

245. I'm happy for you

I notice that it seems to be whenever someone points out how absolutely ridiculous the raging, senseless Obama-hate gets around here, folks like to run out and wave their arms about how "offensive" it is to have that pointed out. They're especially quick on the draw when facts that counter the original nonsense are brought out.

Why, it reminds me of how people respond when you point out their joke about two 'chinamen' walking into a bar is racist; Apparently, you noticing their lack of goddamned common sense is vastly more offensive than their display of that lack.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #245)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:15 PM

262. Absolutley GODDAMN DIPSHIT

right. I will vote D and ask no questions. Why even bother reading about ANYTHING.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #262)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:30 PM

266. And here comes the hyperbolic pants-wetting

Yes. I'm telling you to never ask questions, Mr. beck. I'm terrible, aren't I, demanding you blindly vote without a peep. I love that you ascertain my motives simply from seeing me call out someone who is demonstrably telling bullshit tales about Barack Obama and making the old "THEY'RE ALL THE SAME OMGWTFBBQ!" argument that has served the progressive cause so well in the past (assuming the 'progressive cause' is to get more far-right lunatics elected which I'm starting to think may be the case)

Very astute, Mr. Beck. You may now go back to "just asking" your questions now. I won't scribble fact-checks on your chalkboard anymore.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #266)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:23 PM

281. I really have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here.

Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Are you just trying to insult everyone? You are succeeding in that. You are condescending, belligerent, and interested in accelerating provocation. Your attitude absolutely shows that you have little in common with me, even though, in theory, we are on the same "side".

I know we're complete strangers in cyberspace, but is it really that difficult to have a little common respect?

I didn't come out of the gate calling you Professor Poopypants, Shit-Eater, Dick Nose, or FuckFace. YOU did. Even worse, you compared me to Glenn Beck. That. Is. Not. Acceptable.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #281)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:31 PM

285. Excellent!

You are correct, sir!

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Response to They_Live (Reply #281)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:57 PM

294. I'm sure we have little in common

For instance, I don't rush to the defense of people posting bullshit, nonsense, fabrications, misinformation, and - well - lies. In fact I rather do the opposite. I understand that among the extensive Obama-hating community here on DU, this goes against standard etiquette - I'm supposed to never challenge or call you guys out when you start your wild-eyed gyrations about what absolute utter shit the man is - but I've never been really good at respecting 'peculiar institutions' such as that.

if I wanted to see someone setting a torch to Obama and all democrats on principle, as JDPriestly did and as you are defending then I would go to right-wing sites, where I can get it in undiluted form. I don't come to DU to see people hawking lugies all over anyone who votes Democratic, much less on the basis of a misleading headline from a fucking woo-woo website like Huffpo.

You don't like it when you or others in the Obama-Basher subculture here on DU get called out on your nonsense? Then I'll tell you what; don't engage in nonsense. There's legitimate shit to criticize. Hell, fill up a dozen posts on that drone bullshit he's pulling, I'm with you. Clutch your head and rant about our new best-friends-again down in Colombia; right on! But you don't need to freak the fuck out when some tabloid rag that's been hating his ass since before the primaries gives you a misleading title with his name in it, kay?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #294)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:10 PM

300. I'm not sure I understand where you draw the line

between Obama Hating and questioning his motives and actions, as well as how he has misrepresented himself to those of us who have voted for him. I guess I never got the meme that Huff Post = bad. Sorry about that. You are apparently familiar with the list of top Obama disappointments, though. And you do seem to agree with some of it, just as I do, but somehow you've placed yourself in a different class than me. Curious, that. Maybe you can let me know which subjects are approved for our mutual criticism of the President of the United States and which ones are not approved, and would automatically make me a Obama-Basher (or is it hater?). I guess I'm getting confused again. Anyways, yeah, just let me know. Because I sure don't don't want to step on any toes.

Oh, concerning the primaries, he's seems to be the ahead.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #300)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:58 PM

321. Huffpo is kind of the online lefty version of the National Enquirer

The occasional actual news story can be found in there... right next to page five gossip, celebrity wedding fashions, and love advice from Deepak Chopra (who will also be doing horoscopes this week!) It's not a publication that impresses me, except insomuch that i'm impressed people will accept it around here and not, say, prisonplanet, when the difference is a matter of spin.

Questioning motives is one thing. But when "I'm just asking questions" becomes a cover for "THAT FUCKING FUCKER OBAMA IS SUCH A FUCKING SHIT-FUCKER THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING THE FUCK ON AND ALL DEMOCRATS ARE SHILLS FOR SUPPORTING THAT FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT FUCKER AAAAAAAARRRRGHHH!" as was the case for JDPriestly - among many, many others - then I have my doubts over how much of your criticism is policy-based... much less lucid and free of intravenous dayquil.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #294)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:15 PM

302. ...and another thing

could you be more specific about the "bullshit, nonsense, fabrications, misinformation, and - well - lies" of this particular story?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #266)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:50 PM

291. oK.... as far as those points you made,

they're good, but we still don't have a candidate progressive ENOUGH to undo the massive shitstorm of a knotted mess that the Bush/Cheney folks left us with. That flurry of terrible legislation has set our country back 50 years (except for the tax rate for the wealthy), and we really needed someone to start unknotting it or cutting the knot at least. I don't see that happening. With both the Dems and Repugs on the side of MONEY, we aren't going to see any Progress until MONEY is no longer part of the equation. Many of us Dems don't see much of a choice, except between getting the thumbscrews, or a hot poker in the eyeball. Not much of a choice. And when a man no longer has a choice, he ceases to be a man.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #291)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:22 PM

305. Now we can attempt a conversation

You're right. Obama isn't really "good enough." He's not as progressive as you'd like; he's certainly not the hard leftist I'd like. But it's honestly time to face reality.

That is; tough shit. Look, neither of us are going to get our personal supercandidate, and we're damned sure not going to see such a person appear between now and November. Unfortunately that's just the way reality works. Can't please everyone. But I'll tell you something, and I want your fellow progressives to listen up.

I understand that Obama's not "good enough." But he is good. Look at our past thirty-two years of presidents. That's a third of a century we're looking at, and what do we see? We see thirty years of republican policy dominating everything, don't we? Reagan for eight years, Spook Bush for four, Bill "I signed NAFTA and welfare reform!" Clinton for eight, AWOL Bush for another eight. We are living in that legacy.

No, Obama is not my dream president just as he's not yours. But he's a damned sight better than what's come before, and most definitely better than option B. I look at him as a toehold for our goals and principles; he's not likely to take us there himself, but he can extend our reach by that much.

You had to have Teddy before we could get Franklin, basically.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #305)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:00 PM

322. Oh..

Agreed. You used the word "progressive" first, so I thought that I might use it in a sentence. I'm pretty hard left actually. I like nature and the ability for humans to live with nature. They're are very few ideal candidates for me. At any level. Good summation of presidential history, but I need more results from him besides pressing the pause button every now and then on the tape player blasting out hellfire and damnation.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #322)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:15 PM

330. Or you'll what?

Again, reality check. I know that people who grouch and rumble about how awful Obama is really don't like being reminded that everyone else out there really is worse. But... that's the fact of our current reality. "Substandard" is at least a few grades better than "completely defective and dangerous," y'dig?

By all means, keep up pressure to push him to the left. The further we can get him to go in the next four years, the better our chances of a much-improved selection in 2016. But bitching and kicking and declaring "I'll let the Republicans win to teach the Democrats a lesson!" as some have done in the past... isn't going to help.

Like I said. Obama's probably not going to take us all the way to the finish line. I for one had no expectations that he would - your mileage may vary. However he'll at least get the baton yea far down the track towards that finish line. I would be happy as hell if he did accomplish the finish line - I'd expect him to change his middle name to Usain, if so - but in the meantime I'm willing to accept that he's at least making a better go of this project than any of the previous guys did.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #245)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:55 PM

320. So the president has no power is what you're saying?

He has no influence at all over policies that will, whether or not you disagree, reflect on his administration?

Where are you seeing 'Obama-hate? I see 'policy disagreement'. Does Obama agree, not agree with what is in the OP? You are defending him, so you must know. And if he has not yet decided then what objection do you have to having hear how the people feel about these policies so that WE the PEOPLE get to influence him before the Corporate lobbyists descend upon the WH.

What you seem to be objecting to is the Democratic process where when the people hear about policies that will be harmful to them, they speak out before those policies go into effect.

Obama is a tough guy, I supported him, for Senate and for POTUS, I think told us to let him know when he was not on the right track and he seemed to mean it, understanding the bubble he would be in once he got to DC.

Helping avoid making a decisions that would be so bad for this country seems to me is not Obama hate at all. To remain silent and let the Corps influence him, looks more like that to me.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #320)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:06 PM

325. You can see what I'm saying, in my post

I state it rather plainly. Maybe try reading it, instead of attempting this huffy, passive-aggressive stuff that you filled that poor text box with before hitting "post my reply!" Seriously, it's all right there.

matter of fact, since I guess you might need your hand held, here's what I said;
Because, if you read the article instead of just the title, you will find that the problem isn't with Barack Obama, it's with the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. While this office does act as adviser to the president, they are not one and the same; and the president is actually the good guy here, in opening up transparency on what's going on in the USTR.


Am I saying he has no power? No, I'm not. However, he certainly isn't omniscient, and I'm sure - I'm also sure that you're sure - that a lot of stuff goes on without his direct approval.Can you imagine the bureaucratic nightmare of trying to get the president to personally sign off on everything

I'm saying that the spitting and the outrage is misplaced. What he's done is opened up the curtains so that you can look at what's going on and do exactly what you're talking about - "I think told us to let him know when he was not on the right track and he seemed to mean it, understanding the bubble he would be in once he got to DC. "

This is different from what I was responding two from JDPriestly, and which That_Guy chose to defend - raving, wild-eyed denigration outside a basis of reality not just of Obama, but also anyone who still supports the guy.

That is, he was calling YOU a shill and saying you should be shunned from DU owing to your continued support for Obama.

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Response to They_Live (Reply #234)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:22 PM

375. Thank you, I've never seen an uglier post.

Last edited Fri Jun 15, 2012, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #230)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:43 PM

274. Somewhat proving JD's point, I would say. n/t

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #230)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:03 PM

297. And who does the USTR report to?

Or are they a non-government agency?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #230)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:01 PM

368. +1000

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:42 PM

233. Thank You.

spot on.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:14 PM

260. ...typed a Smoove Johnny-shill, with a straight face...

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:22 PM

264. JDP, I truly wish I could recommend this reply

It's incredibly on point and very, very well said!



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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:59 PM

267. +1000!

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:27 PM

307. Yep. Yet we're not supposed to mention the obvious...



It is unfathomable that advertisers would not be expected to identify themselves as such...unless you accept that the site prefers it that way.



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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:48 PM

318. yep, bullseye. What I do is usually ignore them

 

figuratively. They are so boring, its always the same thing, like a broken record. THey never have anything interesting to say, its always empty headed cheerleading.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #318)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 01:21 PM

435. It isn't so much that I disagree with them but that, as you explain, their posts

are terribly boring and detract from the value of DU on the whole.

I think some DUers thought I was criticizing those who say positive things about Obama, but I think you understand that I really am talking about one or two people who post here and who appear to post public relations items rather than real contributions to our thought and discussion.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:15 PM

329. +1

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:44 PM

360. Looks like you incurred the longest swarm yet. But tread lightly. The Neighborhood Watch

has their eyes on you.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #222)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 02:09 AM

412. +1

Interesting question, indeed!

PB

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:05 AM

80. OH COME ON, MANNY!!!

you HAVE to be used to it by now, being accused of secretly wanting DUBYA TO RETURN every time you point out the truth about Obama!!!!

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Response to Skittles (Reply #80)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:26 AM

93. Not entirely true.

Sometimes I want Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney to win. And sometimes I'm a PUMA - see the fun down thread.

Quite a shape-shifter, I am.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #93)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:42 AM

104. You're just mad cause you didn't get your pony.

Lighten up Francis.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #104)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:53 AM

110. LOL

Well done!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #93)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 04:59 PM

450. HEHE

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Response to Skittles (Reply #80)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:39 AM

100. Actually

you HAVE to be used to it by now, being accused of secretly wanting DUBYA TO RETURN every time you point out the truth about Obama!!!!


...some people do want that (or similar, specifically the leaker) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002806854

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Response to ProSense (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

356. Really? All sense of honest discussion out the window

just because it is election season? No bottom to your bucket?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:27 PM

254. False choice

It was a false-choice based argument. And not a very good one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:00 PM

12. No not that one, the Tea Party one that is obstructing everything and took America hostage.

You were asking why others bills can't pass, so I figured I'd give a quick civics lesson about why bills aren't being passed and progress isn't being done.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:02 PM

15. So you don't want to talk about the one

whose Democrats turned on a dime when Obama started shilling for Bush's "free" trade agreements?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:15 PM

23. Why, it only advances RW causes and fuels the fire for discouraging voter turnout for Obama.

After all, this IS a public forum & threads like this seem counter-productive to advancing our goal of getting Obama re-elected and stopping us from becoming a RW Fascist-Theocracy. Maybe channel that frustration into something positive i.e. Electing progressives, voter registration drives, canvassing, donating time/energy, feeding the homeless, etc.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:17 PM

24. What if... Obama just stopped doing this awful shit

so you wouldn't have to fear speaking openly about what he's done?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:20 PM

25. I'm not the one in fear, I'm the one voting for him.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:21 PM

26. Seems like I misread your post then.

I must need some sleep.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:22 PM

28. Now...

THAT is hope I can believe in...

We are (wink) promised that he wouldn't do this awful shit anymore, after he's re-elected, and meanwhile, we have this more awful Romney shit that somehow is polling well.

Yes, we got a lot of shit in the pot here.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 08:21 PM

304. Absolutely nailed it, Manny!

"What if Obama just stopped doing this awful shit so you wouldn't have to fear speaking openly about what he's done?"





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 08:40 AM

416. "WHAT IF...OBAMA JUST STOPPED DOING THIS AWFUL SHIT

SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO FEAR SPEAKING OPENLY ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE? "

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 03:41 PM

441. I, for one, would be quite happy to be all "forward"

And into forgiveness and shit if HE JUST FUCKI*NG STOPPED IT!!

His main guy, Rahm Emanuel is in Chicago right now saying it is time to de-criminalize marijuana. Maybe Rahm wasn't as bad as I believed him to be. Maybe Obama wouldn't have gone after the Marijuana clinics here in Calif. if Rahm was still around.

All I really know is the guy who campaigned in Oct 2008, using Edwards and Kucinich talking points, is not the guy in the WH.

And I love your wood chipper hammer smash analogy. I dn';t jsut love it - I feel it.

If you think it is bad now, just wait till the Trans Pacific trade Agreement takes effect, and we can all be put into Chinese run jails for the second our credit card debt receives a bad rating, with Chinese overseers, and the opportunity to provide some One Percenter a free organ of their choosing without their having to travel to Bejing.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:20 AM

200. The RW causes being advanced were/are the Free Trade Agreements.

That is what lurches the country to the right. Not Manny on DU.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #200)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:05 PM

228. Isn't it Hillary's State Department that does the nitty-gritty negotiations

on trade agreements? Aren't the Clintons a lot of the rightward drag on Obama's administration?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #228)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 03:33 PM

243. I don't think Obama is left of the Clinton's. I also don't view the Clinton's themselves as being left

at all. So no, I don't think they drag the Obama administration to the right. How can they drag Obama to the right when they are two peas in a pod.

Do you think Hillary's negotiations are in opposition to what Obama wants?

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:06 PM

204. why trouble your beautiful mind?

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:59 AM

140. As soon as I see Democrats actually fighting ..

... the tea party assholes, I'll buy into your story.

In the meantime, we've all been "Third Way-ed", sold into a New Democrat paradigm that is nothing but Old Republican.

Not that I give a shit really, anyone paying any attention whatsoever can see that our entire political system has been hijacked, and it really doesn't matter a whole helluva lot who is in office - the same bullshit is going to continue until it can't.

Propping up the rich at the expense of he poor and middle class. Pointless wars and military police actions. Gutting of the Constitution. Put them all on your calendar, they're what's for dinner for a long time.

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Response to sendero (Reply #140)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 03:42 PM

442. Thank you. I agree with your logical statements. n/t

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:02 PM

227. Again, if Congress is the problem,

why has Obama used his veto only twice?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #227)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 03:37 PM

244. *crickets*

Failure to see reality at this point is a willful act.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #244)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:58 PM

277. I remember the Truman and Johnson administrations.

Franklin D. Roosevelt used his veto (pocket and regular) 635 times. He was president for 2 and more than 1/2 terms.

Harry Truman used his veto (pocket and regular) 250 times in a little over eight years.

Johnson used his veto (pocket and regular) 30 times in close to six years.

Obama has used his veto only twice in 3 1/2 years.

Ronald Reagan used it 78 times in 8 years.

GWB used it 12 times in 8 years, and he had a supposedly Democratic Congress part of that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes

The veto is one of the constitutional powers of the president. If Obama didn't like what Congress was doing it, he should have used his powers to veto what they wanted to do. Instead he uses his power to decide who gets droned.

Obama knows how to use power when he wants to. He just does not want to use the veto because then he would have to take a stand and maybe offend the Republicans and Blue Dogs. Yet he wants liberal Democrats to support him in November.

A certain portion of politics is about the theater of it, and Obama is a great speaker but not good at the theater of politics.

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