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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,900 posts)
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:42 PM Jul 2016

Why it's so hard to build affordable housing: It's not affordable

A real estate developer wanted to increase affordable housing in Denver, trying to make fiscal sense out of a plan to build rental apartments for people making only 30 percent of the area's median income—the kind of housing America desperately needs. He discovered that, no matter what lever he moved or compromise he made, he was going to need some money from the government to make it work. Then he was going to need some more.

Almost one in four U.S. renters spends more on housing than they can afford, according to a report in June from Harvard University‘s Joint Center for Housing Studies—and the problem gets worse at the lower end of the income spectrum. About 10 million renter households earn 30 percent or less of the area median income, accounting for a quarter of the renter population. The U.S. would need to add more than 7 million cheap apartments to meet demand from such extremely low-income renters, according to a recent report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition.

“If we want to prioritize closing the gap for low-income households, we’re going to need more funding from public subsidy,” said Erika Poethig, director of urban policy initiatives at the Urban Institute, which published an online simulator Tuesday for the purpose of illustrating the challenges to building new affordable housing. Our Denver developer above is fictional, but he's an illustration of what that simulator churns out: No matter how you slice it, creating the affordable housing needed today probably requires government help.

With the interactive tool, users can play developer, toggling their costs and expected revenues in an attempt to make a project "pencil out," a real estate euphemism for profitable, adjusting everything from rent levels and vacancy rates to debt service coverage, administrative expenses, and construction costs. The data underlying the project comes from a handful of recent affordable housing developments in Denver, a fast-growing city in the middle of an apartment-building boom that has increased costs for developers of market-rate and rent-regulated buildings alike.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/why-its-so-hard-to-build-affordable-housing-its-not-affordable/ar-BBuSQBH?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=edgsp

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why it's so hard to build affordable housing: It's not affordable (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2016 OP
Maybe one answer LWolf Jul 2016 #1
I think the point of the article when one reads further Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2016 #2
Okay. LWolf Jul 2016 #16
Republican and Democrats in the inside circles have no qualm here. Baitball Blogger Jul 2016 #25
even non-profit developers have to "pencil out" maxsolomon Jul 2016 #5
Not using the given LWolf Jul 2016 #15
for-profit developers have a profit margin in their calculations, maxsolomon Jul 2016 #18
I think I just said LWolf Jul 2016 #20
we need both profit and non-profit maxsolomon Jul 2016 #21
the point is that it's not possible for anyone geek tragedy Jul 2016 #10
Profit margin on a piece of land is everything Warpy Jul 2016 #3
location, location, location 6chars Jul 2016 #4
I wonder how much is due to inflated real estate prices Sanity Claws Jul 2016 #6
And that is why HUD has programs... Freethinker65 Jul 2016 #7
This goes back to the "online simulator" at Urban Policy Institute. Igel Jul 2016 #8
Fee schedules for permits OxQQme Jul 2016 #9
You better pay the architect before you get to the point where you pay permit fees! maxsolomon Jul 2016 #19
The cost of the permits... Johnyawl Jul 2016 #22
There's Habitat For Humanity OxQQme Jul 2016 #11
Good organization Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2016 #12
There is no market solution to this problem and there never was Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2016 #13
Housing is a human right. rug Jul 2016 #14
This reminds me of the allegory about the oversized truck w in the tunnel... kristopher Jul 2016 #17
Some of that is also NIMBYism. alarimer Jul 2016 #23
I agree Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2016 #24
Maybe the solution involves cheaper construction materials and streamlined regulation. David__77 Jul 2016 #26

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
1. Maybe one answer
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:50 PM
Jul 2016

is to make affordable housing public, and take the profit out. If the developer doesn't have to "pencil out," the problem doesn't exist, and the housing gets built.

It seems like this is a continuous problem in many areas; it's so hard to provide things like housing, health care, etc., without interfering with the profits at the top.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,900 posts)
2. I think the point of the article when one reads further
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:52 PM
Jul 2016

is that any kind of low income housing will have to be subsidized.

Baitball Blogger

(46,699 posts)
25. Republican and Democrats in the inside circles have no qualm here.
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 06:03 PM
Jul 2016

Subsidized housing has kept the good ole boys in the construction industry living high on the hog.

maxsolomon

(33,297 posts)
5. even non-profit developers have to "pencil out"
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:58 PM
Jul 2016

they're not making a profit, yet they cannot make it pencil out. that's the point.

I've been working in this area for 2 decades. it must be directly subsidized, and even then it's like pulling teeth. and then people complain that it looks too cheap, or god forbid, too nice. all the government wants to provide nowadays are "tax credits".

Europe does it so much better. http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/gov-affordable-luxurious-housing-in-vienna.html

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
15. Not using the given
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 05:35 PM
Jul 2016

meaning of "pencil out:"

in an attempt to make a project "pencil out," a real estate euphemism for profitable

Of course, if "pencil out" means "complete within available budget," then they certainly need to do so, non-profit or not.

I look forward to reading your link.

maxsolomon

(33,297 posts)
18. for-profit developers have a profit margin in their calculations,
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:26 PM
Jul 2016

non-profit developers do not.

neither of them are in the business of losing money.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
20. I think I just said
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 01:46 PM
Jul 2016

that, or something like that.

I'll stand by my original premise: perhaps it would be easier to provide affordable housing without "losing money" if it were non-profit. Then all that profit can be added back into the budget.

maxsolomon

(33,297 posts)
21. we need both profit and non-profit
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 02:17 PM
Jul 2016

my firm is doing workforce apartment buildings with a for-profit developer - but on parcels that are part of a public housing redevelopment. there's not that much profit for them, frankly. 3-4%?

we're also doing non-profit, subsidized housing - but those developers have to compete on the open market for parcels.

in general, its not the profit margin/greed that prevents affordable housing from being built. its the land cost. so, you're right - government needs to get in the game.


 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
10. the point is that it's not possible for anyone
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 03:19 PM
Jul 2016

in the private sector to build it and not lose money.

The only way it gets built is (a) government subsidies or (b) the government just pays for the whole thing.

Either way, of course then the question becomes how much do taxes go up to pay for it.

Warpy

(111,241 posts)
3. Profit margin on a piece of land is everything
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:54 PM
Jul 2016

and a yuppie barn or apartment complex is going to generate more of it on any given piece of land. Builders can't stay in business producing stand alone 2 or 3 bedroom houses for working people.

This is where the mean old gummint needs to step in to any capitalist venture: if you need more of something, subsidize it. If you need less of something, tax it. It's the only thing that has ever worked.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
4. location, location, location
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:55 PM
Jul 2016

structures aren't so expensive. the problems with affordable housing arise when in order to have a decent life, you need to be in one location and not another, e.g., near jobs, transportation, schools, stores, safety, amenities. The scarcity of these drives up prices of places where we would want more affordable housing, which makes it expensive one way or another to create that housing - developers are paying for land and they have to cover that cost and that's harder to do if they have more affordable units.

From a policy perspective, we need to make all locations more livable, and then the need for affordable housing in particular areas will be much diminished. Better jobs and wages wouldn't hurt either.

Sanity Claws

(21,846 posts)
6. I wonder how much is due to inflated real estate prices
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 03:02 PM
Jul 2016

Capital from all over the world is flowing into US, Canada and certain other markets increasing prices tremendously. The investors are trying to launder money and trying to find so-called safe vehicles for investments.
Too much capital out there. Not enough for laborers.

Freethinker65

(10,009 posts)
7. And that is why HUD has programs...
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 03:08 PM
Jul 2016

...such as the LIHTC (low income housing tax credit) and RAD (rental assistance demonstration) programs to provide incentives to developers to build affordable housing. Of course, with government money, comes additional paperwork and bureaucracy, that is often very cumbersome and tedious.

OxQQme

(2,550 posts)
9. Fee schedules for permits
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 03:17 PM
Jul 2016

in Multnomah County/Portland: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/34184

Lots of hoops to jump through before any shovel touches the dirt.

I wouldn't want to move in to my new house and have it catch fire because of an electrical fault, or have the sewer back up because the contractor ran the outflow uphill, or some such un-inspected flaw.

But geez, the permit prices are enormous prior to paying the architect.

maxsolomon

(33,297 posts)
19. You better pay the architect before you get to the point where you pay permit fees!
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jul 2016

Or they ain't giving you the drawings!

Johnyawl

(3,205 posts)
22. The cost of the permits...
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:32 PM
Jul 2016

...reflects what the City has to pay for qualified, professional inspectors, and support staff. Municipalities, counties and states normally pay a decent salary with gold plated health care and retirement benefits. Then they have to provide automobiles and expenses to get out to job sites to do the inspections. None of this is cheap, and everybody wants those costs covered by fees, not taxation.
 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
13. There is no market solution to this problem and there never was
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 03:51 PM
Jul 2016

Subsidizing a stagnant rental stock (and no, the new luxury rentals in New York and Los Angeles don't count) is a completely pointless endeavor.

We need to build public housing again, but we also need to prevent it from being garrisoned by criminals and mismanaged into disrepair.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
17. This reminds me of the allegory about the oversized truck w in the tunnel...
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 05:53 PM
Jul 2016
Experts pondered how to remove it, with some wanting to touch off the cab and others suggesting demolishing the structure of the tunnel entrance. After a considerable time elapsed, a little girl watching from her family's car asks her father why they don't just let the air out of the truck's tires....


Instead of trying to make impossibly cheap housing, why not pay a real living wage and provide a real social safety net for those unable to work?

The top 1/10th of one percent probably wouldn't approve, but I really don't care.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
23. Some of that is also NIMBYism.
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:58 PM
Jul 2016

So many people, even good "progressives" don't want subsidized housing anywhere near them, for fear of lowered property values. Apparently the mere presence of "those people" will lower property values or degrade the neighborhood or some such.

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