Nice Attacker Spent Years in Therapy, Was No Islamist...uninterested in religion.

[vkkv]

Family speaks of violent nervous breakdowns as a result of psychological problems, but neighbors and other relatives say Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel most often seemed unassuming, sporty and uninterested in religion.

"My brother had psychological problems, and we have given the police documents showing that he had been seeing psychologists for several years," Rabeb Bouhlel, Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel's sister, told Reuters.

Bouhlel's father told French television that the family had sought medical treatment after his son had a breakdown.

[Silver_Witch]

1. yet another person in deep trouble and not a terriorist11

we must stop the fearmonging.

[6chars]

2. Why do people keep calling him Nice?

[Cirque du So-What]

3. ...

[Her Sister]

42. Nice is location of attack. I know, it makes OP title strange!

[PersonNumber503602]

71. oh you...

[Cirque du So-What]

4. The RW blogosphere

is choc-abloc with assurances that the attacker underwent a 'last-minute' radicalization. Sure would like to see that meme put to rest.

[6chars]

14. WaPo is more MSM than RW blogosphere

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-for-france-attack-in-nice/2016/07/16/4327456e-4ab9-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_nice-515am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

It remained unclear whether the Islamic State had directed the attack, was taking responsibility for an assault it inspired or was simply seeking publicity from an event in which it had no direct hand. But no matter the exact connection to organized groups, investigators appear to believe that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, 31, was taking his cues from their message.

The link underscores the difficulty of preventing the spread of extremist ideology in a world where even people like Bouhlel — whose family and neighbors portray him as a troubled loner — can be spurred to attack without training, resources or connections.

“It seems that he radicalized his views very rapidly. These are the first elements that our investigation has come up with through interviews with his acquaintances,” Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said Saturday, without offering details. Five people have been detained for questioning in the case.

“We are now facing individuals who are responding positively to the messages issued by the Islamic State without having had any special training and without having access to weapons that allow them to commit mass murder,” Cazeneuve said.


One interpretation is that ISIS has a way to get its message to unstable people who will very quickly take it up and act on it.

[Igel]

20. Why?

Because it's politically better to blame the mentally ill than Muslims?

If he was radicalized at the last minute, then he was. If he was mentally ill, then he was. If he was both, then he was both. Rather than seeing "memes" put to rest, I'd rather have something like a fact that's not considered unspeakable just because it's offensive.

[cwydro]

49. Excellent post.

[840high]

28. I'll leave it to the police to determine.

[MariaThinks]

54. that's what the authorities in Nice are saying. I imagine they know more than we do.

[bdwker]

5. Where is this from? Link?

[vkkv]

12. Sorry I thought I posted the link, here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.731329

[MariaThinks]

6. i guess he just copied the islamic state's tactics at mass murder of children.

[MH1]

7. I strongly suspect that the technique he used

appears in fiction books and video games.

Probably didn't have to get the idea from ISIS.

That's not saying he didn't. Just that it isn't the only place he could have gotten it.

[dlwickham]

8. we're blaming video games now?

okay then...

[MH1]

10. Nope, not at all. Just that once he decided to commit mass murder, he had plenty

of sources for ideas as to techniques.

The poster I was responding to, seemed to be suggesting that he copied ISIS techniques. That is no more a logical inference than to assume he saw it in a video game or a book. (Did you think I was blaming books, too?)

[mwrguy]

11. Grand Theft Auto games

among others

[Nevernose]

36. It's LITERALLY in the first issue of Al Qaeda Magazine

But blame video games now. Not his mental health or what the French authorities are calling a rapid radicalization. Perfect sense

[MH1]

45. Well, you see, I never read any issues of Al Qaeda magazine, myself

So I wouldn't know that. But somehow I'd heard of killing people by plowing into them with a car or truck before.*

Also you didn't bother to read to my reply to the first poster who's hot button was "video games" as if I had suggested confiscating gunz to a gun lover. (which was not at all the point of my post, but apparently the use of certain words has a trigger effect on some people)

Sheesh, just fucking sheesh.

*Someone mentioned it's in the Grand Theft Auto game. If that is true, then WHY would you assume the guy got it from "Al Qaeda Magazine" and not "Grand Theft Auto"?

[MariaThinks]

53. It's too bad that he did everything isis wanted him to do and then yelling slogans in arabic to

throw us off his true motives

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Do you think ISIS

invented mass murder?

[840high]

29. No. But they're good at it.

[MariaThinks]

55. isis is inspiring it all over the world and as we continue to deny this we become complicent

in their murders.

[melman]

9. The brother said he sent the family $150,000

Where did he get the money?

[Albertoo]

13. There is evidence he was manipulated by Islamists

Terrorists are often 'bad' Muslims (petty criminals who do booze and drugs) who seize the offer of redemption fanatic islamists sell them.

An ex-Muslim posted a thread on that very point here yesterday, explaining why the non-observant Muslims can be recruited by being offered 'redemption' in jihad.

[YOHABLO]

15. What evidence ? So he mows down a crowd because of his emotional problems and ISIS takes credit?

[Albertoo]

16. Phone contacts with islamists + his relatives suddenly receive cash + attack logistics

[840high]

31. Yep - posters bend over

backwards to deny what investigators said.

[Albertoo]

35. Looks like it

[Democat]

27. It's impossible for some DUers to see facts

As long as it's non-white non-Christian people, they are always innocent.

[840high]

34. Bingo.

[MH1]

46. Please post links to the "facts". I don't appreciate the insinuations here.

I'm not denying the possibility that this guy was motivated by ISIS.

However, the fact that he used a tactic that ISIS uses (which I'm not aware of an actual case, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen), which happens to be a tactic that has been used by others, is in fiction books, news and (OMG I don't believe I'm going to type it and bring down The Wrath) ... video games.

It's intellectually lazy, or just plain stupid, or even bigoted, to automatically attach a cause based on a spurious association like that.

Now if there is more, actual evidence, fine, show it. I'm quite open to it. I happen to believe in my gut that he very well may have been radicalized by ISIS. But the guy was apparently mentally flipped out. So maybe that was a bigger cause than anything, you know?

And when I hear people drawing conclusions based on bigoted non-evidence, I'll call bullshit. Which is what I'm doing upthread. And I don't like the insinuations in this subthread that anyone who challenges the flimsy non-evidence being presented here, actually tries to discuss on (gasp) a discussion board, is somehow an apologist for ISIS or Islam.

[scscholar]

17. I would never call an attacker nice (ntxt)

[awoke_in_2003]

19. My sarcasm meter may not be working today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice

[scscholar]

21. He was an attacker in Nice. He was not a nice attacker! The media keeps getting that wrong! (ntxt)

[awoke_in_2003]

23. I don't watch TV news

Are they pronouncing it Nice rhyming with ice, or rhyming with niece?

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. People seem really invested in disassociating this guy from terror.

Golly...wonder why...hmm.

Oh, wait. I know.

[vkkv]

24. Um, because the source of this piece is an ISRAELI NEWS outlet?

Yes, Haaretz would definitely have a bias against tagging him as a Muslim terrorist, right?

[6chars]

38. Omg

Haaretz.

[840high]

32. I know why.

[MH1]

47. Help me out here. Why? Is every murderous attack now "Terror!!! Terror!!! Terraaaaaa!!!"

Funny, I remembered how that was mocked here during the Bush years.

You know, MAYBE, just MAYBE, somebody just wants to discuss the possibility of other factors?




Okay, naw, that can't be it. I guess the reason is whatever you "know" that you're not saying.

[Democat]

26. Some on DU are really wanting this to be anything

except what is probably was.

[AntiBank]

37. +1

[Joe the Revelator]

30. The lengths DU will go to ignore the facts...

This guy was radicalized. Don't make excuses for him.

[840high]

33. They make excuses after every tragedy.

[pkdu]

39. I prefer to go with his ex-brother-in-law , who actually knew him...

" he wasnt a muslim , he didnt go to the mosque , he ate pork , he drank , he was a shit

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Why? Mateen's father rushed to the press to put forth a similar narrative then he

Tweeted a bunch of anti gay hate material himself as the graves were being dug, DUers endorsed that hate monger father in their rush to sell the narrative they desired to speak.

In what other cases of mass murder have we turned to the families of the killer to ask them why it happened? Is that the usual method? No, it is not because family always has their own objectives. I mean, Donald Trump's family all claim Trump is a brilliant genius. Does that make it so? They actually know him!!!!

[pkdu]

62. Except this "family member" is the brother of the woman he used to beat so she left him...

sometimes a sick self-loathing "shit" is just a sick self-loathing "shit"

[GummyBearz]

65. Giving the brother in law more reason to dissasociate the attacker from his own religion

[melman]

72. Exactly

"He was no Muslim" is meant as an insult.

[JI7]

67. and fucking kim davis commits adultery while condemning gays in the name of christianity

[MowCowWhoHow III]

40. Witnesses tell French police truck attacker was religious: investigative source (AFP)

#BREAKING: Witnesses tell French police truck attacker was religious: investigative source
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/754583464544829440

[malaise]

41. He appears to be no different than the German who took down an entire aircraft

full of people.

[melman]

44. Right

Just a lone wolf. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141521528

[Her Sister]

43. Which comes 1st: ISIS or the Mental breakdown? Chicken or egg?

Last edited Sun Jul 17, 2016, 08:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Think it could be either way!

Person has mental breakdown and then chooses any rationale (ISIS) to pull off something-something (Some form of terrorist attack)

Person joins ISIS which then leads to mental breakdown & therefore some form of terrorist attack.

[MH1]

48. Thank you, but don't look upthread, you'll find out

what a horrible person you are for not blindly accepting the dominant narrative.

Intellectual curiosity is not always favored by some here, apparently.

[Her Sister]

51. Yes I see that! People misunderstanding your meaning above! LOL!

Seems a bit MUCH! Ridiculous in a way!

and getting OUTRAGED! Wondering what that's about....Hmmmmm...!!!!

&

[vkkv]

63. Wow...

You do a fantastic Sarah Palin immitation! And I DO mean that as a compliment.

Her Sister
51. Yes I see that! People misunderstanding your meaning above! LOL!

"""""""
Seems a bit MUCH! Ridiculous in a way!

and getting OUTRAGED! Wondering what that's about....Hmmmmm...!!!! """""

[Her Sister]

64. You doing a fantastic moment a la Trump and I mean that as a compliment

vkkv
63. Wow...
View profile

You do a fantastic Sarah Palin immitation! And I DO mean that as a compliment.

Her Sister
51. Yes I see that! People misunderstanding your meaning above! LOL!

"""""""
Seems a bit MUCH! Ridiculous in a way!

and getting OUTRAGED! Wondering what that's about....Hmmmmm...!!!! """""

[vkkv]

57. Well, the egg comes first of course. It is in the egg where cell mutation take place, DNA strands

are 'mixed', hybrids are formed and evolution takes place. For example: FrankenFish ( the new hybrid salmon)

Next point - It is my and others' opinion that anyone who believes in a great, all-powerful sky-fairy who created each life on earth individually and is granting our after-lives to heaven or a "hell" or Valhalla or Elysian Fields or Happy Hunting Ground even Stovokor -are already mentally ill...
ISIS > Mentally Ill.. Mentally ill > ISIS.. pretty equal in my book.

Just because one read it in a book (the Bible), doesn't make it true. One ( not you) would have to be nuts to think so. Wouldn't you agree?

[Her Sister]

58. lol! Your answer on egg/chicken!

Mental continuum & illness can come from any religion or non-religion. BTW am atheist.

[vkkv]

60. You must have forgotten that I was repsonding to YOUR post.

The parameter you set was: which came first, mental illness or a devotion to ISIS.

[Her Sister]

61. Yes! Makes sense!

[Yo_Mama]

50. Okay but there is evidence this was Islam-inspired terrorism from investigation.

What the man was in 2005 and 2007 and 2009 and even 2011 is not material to this act.

FAZ has an article summing up what the French are saying:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/kampf-gegen-den-terror/attentat-in-nizza-sehr-radikal-in-sehr-kurzer-zeit-14344366.html

Unfortunately in German, so here is the Google translate version:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Faktuell%2Fpolitik%2Fkampf-gegen-den-terror%2Fattentat-in-nizza-sehr-radikal-in-sehr-kurzer-zeit-14344366.html&edit-text=

The attack was planned. Several witnesses have told the French that, at least recently, the man had become religious in some form. His wife and family probably would not know this, due to not being with him.

The perp had done two drive-throughs before the attack in the rented truck. He asked by text for more weapons before the final attack. The recipient is one of those arrested by the French police after the attack.

Add to that the large amount of money dispatched to family in Tunisia. The money was dispatched through unofficial channels. Who would send all that cash by individuals? How would you know it would get there? Some sort of network was used to do this.

Further, the constant calls to the family in the last month were probably made with the purpose of confirming that the money did get there.

The man did not act alone. It appears he was paid to do it, and his state of mind probably had a lot to do with why he did it, and why he was vulnerable to the teachings of these people.

What confounds me about your reasoning is that most of the terror attackers, esp. in France, have not been conventionally observant of Islam. They have instead been secular criminals who apparently "got religion" in the worst way before their deaths.

Guilt and the desire to cleanse oneself of sins may have a lot to do with these actions. The desire to go out as a "hero" may have something to do with it.

If you looked at the profile of most of the "homegrown" attackers in Europe, it looks very like this man's.

The guy they were hunting for due to the Paris attacks? Never known to be religious; worked in his brother's bar for time; criminal.

The kosher market/Hebdo attackers? Career criminals.

The Morrocan who wanted to whack the train but was taken down by passengers? Dealt drugs in Spain, was wandering around Europe, then "finds" a bag full of heavy weaponry in a park in Belgium and takes the train.

You are not dealing with reality here at all. All the EVIDENCE is that most of the homegrown ones are not the devout ones leading the life they are told to live to go to heaven.

There seems to be a Muslim criminal infrastructure throughout large portions of Europe that probably justifies its deeds on the grounds that they are fighting the infidels and funneling money to Muslim causes; this group appears to be able to draw on its internal resources to find individuals predisposed to die and then draws on its resources to help them die in the "right way".

[Albertoo]

59. ^^^ excellent post ^^^

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

68. Very well stated. You don't have to be pious to believe

This scumbag was a loser in life, and sees a great reward in a very sensual paradise. (72 virgins or not, there's going to be lots of sex.) He's of an age where his libido is probably quite high, so he buys a ticket to everlasting sex. It sounds too simplistic to be real, but it's not a coincidence that most of the terrorists and supporters of ISIS are male of a certain age. (And ISIS promises them sex with slaves in the ME, too. )

[MariaThinks]

56. i'm more interested in hearing from the families of the victims that those of the murderer

[JI7]

66. and mamy christians who oppose gay rights commit adultery and a bunch of other sins

They redeem themselves by going after gays.

At the very least it provides them an excuse.

[Quantess]

69. I guess that fucker is off the hook then!

Whew!

[vkkv]

70. You just suggested that, no one else here did... nt