I am getting worried for my Muslim friends.

[leftyladyfrommo]

Right now I am working for a man from Turkey and his American born wife.

Two of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet.

So far things have stayed calm in KC. I am just hoping it stays that way. We have lots of Muslims here. There are two Muslim families on my block.

But fear makes even rational people crazy.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

1. K&R My only regrets are that I lack Muslim friends and have only 1 life to give 4 my country

[Surya Gayatri]

2. "But fear makes even rational people crazy."

A one sentence rationale for the rise of terrorism. Sow terror and reap the whirlwind.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. The rhetoric coming from Trump is dangerous...

He's legitimizing hate by vocalizing it on a national stage. HE is one of the greatest dangers I'v seen yet in the 21st century.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. And Newt. Such crazy talk. nt

[sarae]

8. Newt! I know he's a horrible bigot

but I wonder if he would've publically said these things pre-Trump?

[awake]

4. yes and fear makes crazy people even crazier

We can count on the craziest one Trump use this tragedy to try to build more hate toward Muslims. My fear is not of Muslims but of the number of Americans who will buy into Trumps tactics and vote for him.

[BlueMTexpat]

6. With the unhinged rhetoric coming

from some well-known politicians, the US needs seriously to consider defining "hate speech" as an actionable felony.

In the law of some countries, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it incites violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.
...
Hate law regulations can be divided into two types: those that are designed for public order and those that are designed to protect human dignity. Those designed to protect public order seem to be somewhat ineffective because they are rarely enforced. For example, in Northern Ireland, as of 1992 only one person was prosecuted for violating the regulation in twenty one years. Those meant to protect human dignity, however, like those in Canada, Denmark, France, Germany and the Netherlands seem to be frequently enforced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

The US, under a conservative Supreme Court dominated by Scalia, has not been successful at all with this to date. Now that Scalia is gone and so long as Hillary is elected President, we may be able to enact some common-sense hate-speech limitations. There are models that exist in countries such as those listed above.

[7962]

14. And what do you think when YOUR speech is one day labeled "hate speech"?

I'm sorry, but "freedom of speech" covers a lot of shit we dont like. When you start regulating speech you dont like, the door is open to regulate ALL of it. You think the SCOTUS will ALWAYS have a liberal bent? What happens when the pendulum swings the OTHER way, and half of whats said on DU is considered "hate"?
We already regulate some types of threatening speech and thats as far as it should go.

[AntiBank]

15. "There are models that exist in countries such as those listed above."They dont have a 1st Amendment

There already is a working definition for hate speech here. It's called fighting words. Trump and Newt are nowhere near that level.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

Incitement vs. fighting words

Incitement is a related doctrine, allowing the government to prohibit advocacy of unlawful actions if the advocacy is both intended to and likely to cause immediate breach of the peace. The modern standard was defined in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), where the Court reversed the conviction of a Ku Klux Klan leader accused of advocating violence against racial minorities and the national government. The Ohio statute under which the conviction occurred was overturned as unconstitutional because "the mere abstract teaching of the moral propriety or even moral necessity for a resort to force and violence, is not the same as preparing a group for violent action and steeling it to such action."

The difference between incitement and fighting words is subtle, focusing on the intent of the speaker. Inciting speech is characterized by the speaker's intent to make someone else the instrument of his or her unlawful will. Fighting words, by contrast, are intended to cause the hearer to react to the speaker.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)

[Loki]

7. I'm here too.

It's an uneasy feeling and knowing so many people of many different faiths and nationalities, I worry for all people of good will. They want us to lose that perspective and we must stand strong together.

[RoccoR5955]

9. I am very worried about Muslims in the US

Because when tRump is president, he will go and throw them out, while the redneck gundamentalist ammosexuals will have a holiday shooting them.

[maryellen99]

11. I'm also worried for not only Muslims in the US

I'm also worried for anyone not white as well.

[7962]

16. Even if he WAS elected, thats not going to happen

Even if he attempted it, there would be many court filings to overcome. And actual US citizens cant be deported anyway.
I think 1/2 of what he says is only for attention and he's got no intention of actually doing it.

[RoccoR5955]

19. Meh!

tRump has the money so that if he gets sued he can pay back people. He'll just declare a couple of more bankruptcies at a profit, as he did in the past.
Besides, he's making good money on his campaign by lending it money with interest.

[raven mad]

10. I really don't understand attitudes of fear about a religion.

Not anymore. But then I think of the Catholic church and Crusades.

Plenty of space up here, and our Muslim community is small but strong. And no, they don't carry swords or automatic weapons and concentrated a few years back to turn an old eyesore building in to a mosque that is just gorgeous.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. My brother and SIL are Sufi.

They live discretely with their religion. My brother has to worry about discrimination that would affect his employment. Both of them worry about living in Virginia where it's mostly Christian conservatives. And they have concern about being targeted by fundamentalist Muslims who regard them as apostates.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Just fyi, your State has dozens of officially listed hate crimes every year, most are

motivated by bias against the victim's race, many by bias against the victim's sexuality, a smaller amount are religiously motivated and those are largely against Jewish people or those the shooter thinks are Jewish in the case of Overland Park. There are usually a couple of attacks against disabled people based on bias against them.

It's each and every year. The way we address hate crimes should be that we strongly oppose them all and react strongly to all of them. Just a thought. DU tends to yawn at hate crimes against some minorities. That just makes it all worse.

I'll never think of DU or Democrats the same after Orlando, just so you all know.

[7962]

17. Yes, the excuses after Orlando were PAST ridiculous.

yet follows a pattern here.
If the guy had been waving a bible, do you think we would have seen the same reach for an excuse? HELL no

[Albertoo]

18. I wish all the best to your Muslim friends and I wish a rational debunking of Islam

Being Muslim most often adhering to a familial tradition without knowing much beyond the 5 pillars. I can only wish the best possible life to all Muslims. And that includes being exposed courteously and caringly to information showing why the Quran is an uncaring book full of obvious mistakes.

[closeupready]

20. Me too. I have probably a half dozen close muslim friends.

But none of them has, to date, talked about open discrimination against them due to their religious background - I am in NYC, though, if that makes a difference. K&R