How confident are you can, quickly, learn enough about a topic ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

you are relatively unfamiliar with, to adequately, inform your opinion on that topic?

And, once so informed ... what would it take for you to admit that the internet is NOT a good tool for quick self-education?

[Sivart]

1. Trying to make sense of this question.....

Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

I can learn things quickly. Very quickly. I am very confident in my ability to do this. It has benefited my in a host of ways my whole life, including building my entire career on this ability.

I would never, repeat, never admit that the internet is NOT a good tool for quick learning, because it is an amazing tool for learning, including quick learning.....I have no clue how you could think anything else.

Like all tools, it is only as good as the person or persons using it.

Is there a point you were trying to hide in there somewhere????

[melman]

29. Good luck

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. Depends on how easy the topic is. If it's game of thrones trivia

Then pretty quickly. If it's macro economic, then slowly and if I'm just learning from wiki then my knowledge will be shallow relative to experts in macroeconomics.

[Nevernose]

11. Why hasn't Lyanna Mormont been given her own series yet?

I don't care if she's only been in three scenes, she kicked ass (proverbially) in all of them.

[alc]

3. 1-2 weeks

As an IT consultant off and on (some perm jobs in between) for 30+ years I've repeatedly got up to speed on a business I'm unfamiliar with as well as systems, architectures and programming languages used by the business in 1-2 weeks. I usually make recommendations for business processes and IT systems in that time which the company's business and IT experts agree with. Unlike many consultants I then stay for 6-9 months to lead the development of new systems (often in a language or platform I haven't used before) and implementation of business processes and would find out if my initial recommendations were off-base.

I do it through a combination of meetings during the day and internet at night. Not exactly self-education since I have the daily meetings. But the internet is great for getting lots of detail about terminology I hear and existing systems I "understand" but don't know all of the pros/cons, trade-offs, decisions, options, etc of. And I can do that without taking hours out of the daily meetings to get my detailed questions answered. And after 1-2 weeks I know pros/cons/alternatives that the client's IT people often aren't aware of.

I'm not sure what you're trying to find out so maybe I'm way off topic. Maybe I could have just said: The internet is great for some things; horrible for others; and won't make anyone an expert at anything by itself.

[leftofcool]

4. Self education from the internet???? LMAO!

Sorry! Get a book and read it. Sure, it takes longer but in the long run, you will actually be educated on the subject.

[joshcryer]

5. I think the internet is a valuable learning tool.

But by no means quickly.

[DanTex]

6. I disagree with the second part. The internet CAN be a great tool for quick self-education.

It just depends how you use it. And also what the topic is. As a general rule, the less political a topic is, the better the internet is as a tool for quick self-education. If you want to learn about something like the French Revolution, or X-ray crystallography, the internet is great. You can learn a lot just from Wikipedia, and there are also probably video lectures of university courses you can access for free.

The problem is, if you want to learn about Obamacare, then some people will go to FOX and other people will go to Glenn Greenwald, and nobody learns anything except what they wanted to hear.

[underpants]

14. I agree

[treestar]

7. +1

K&R. The internet makes us think we are experts too quickly. Plus it is full of opinion.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Yes, Sir ...

And, when one is unfamiliar with a topic, what appears to be "fact" is merely opinion.

[Nitram]

9. Depends on the topic. Quantum mechanics, no.

How to plant tomatoes, yes.

[Brickbat]

10. As someone who has to write authoritatively on a variety of subjects on short notice,

I'm pretty confident in my skills.

[whatthehey]

12. The internet is actually a fine tool

If we remember the internet contains many perfectly valid resouces as well as many places of both intentional and unintentional misinformation. Even the much poo-pooed Wikipedia is mostly quite good in areas on which I am most well-informed by more formal academic sources. Would I necessarily trust it about hotbutton controversies? Not without scanning edit histories, but if I couldn't quite remember, say, the broad terms of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk I'd be content to scan that instead of poring through the New Cambridge Modern History Volume XII (I'm not particularly good on 20th C history; that's just the last article I read there.)

Beyond Wiki of course there are many more formal resources from universities and OOP digitized books as well as amateur resources and fora which are very useful if you know or can quickly assess who can be trusted. Given a fairly short time which would vary depending on complexity and interest level and restricted to just the internet I'm pretty sure I could be decently well informed on any topic within my intellectual ambit. I'm never going to be able to master technical astronomy or theoretical physics regardless of source because my math is just not that strong. I give up at about Calc II sadly. But if you want me to become reasonable undergrad level on, say, the history of Scotland before the Act of Union, I could do pretty well just based on online resources.

[underahedgerow]

13. I can't learn though traditional methods of teaching, as in a formal education setting. It's

a thing, I can't process information like other people. Had pretty much checked out of school by age 14, by which I was reading and writing at a 4th year university level, and reading 2000 words per minute. I would check out 2 books a day from the library after school, take them home, read them and return them the next day. But I couldn't and wouldn't do homework, but would ace any tests involving essays. Managed to get C's and D's. Meh.

My point is, I read furiously and fast. I know by now what are legitimate sources, and how to ascertain if a source is legitimate, generally by publications and often authors, depending on the topic. And usually I can just smell bullshit. Especially in politics!

I am auto-didactic, self taught, self educated, and until 1994, it was through books. After I got the internet, my learning and education increased dramatically, on any topics that interest me, and sadly, far too many do. Art, history, lots of history, all types of history... politics, sure. Economics, finance, investment; I taught myself day trading and the stock market; taught myself how to buy, sell and invest in property of all types. It's cool, it's an endless universe of learning something, all the time.

Anything can be learned on the internet, and I can become an instant expert on any topic within a few minutes or a few hours. Learning Wordpress however, has taken me several months. I still have some gaps to fill in there.

[haele]

15. Frame of reference and experiance helps learning. Of course, casual use of the internet...

...is not a good tool by itself. Context is everything when you find snippets of information on the internet.

But, as an engineer should be able to understand the scientific methodology behind any subject to make his/her opinion, someone with a native understanding and experience with development of relationships or motivations should be able to understand most historical situations and/or social issues.
As opinions are ultimately based off personal understanding, any source of information where you have confidence on the validity of the source can be used to add to or change an existing opinion.

Like any library, the internet does have references that can be used in the formation of opinion. It all depends on whether or not the information you find has artifacts or evidence associated with it that can be verified, and whether or not you already have a background that is associated with the subject that allows you to understand what you are reading.

One finds just as much dreck that can send any true believer off in the direction of fanaticism in the main public library as one finds on the internet. Bullies and iconoclasts have always cherry-picked available information to bolster their preconceptions and personal world-views.

Of course, I could be wrong...

Haele

[ljm2002]

17. Au contraire...

...the internet is a GREAT tool for quick self-education!

I have educated myself on many things on the internet, from how-to videos to theoretical stuff in math and computer science, and a lot in between.

Of course, political subjects are much more risky in terms of getting good information. One needs to maintain one's critical thinking abilities, both as to the arguments being made and the sources that are making them. But on the internet, you can easily find opposing views, and you can easily reach many, many reliable sources.

The internet can also be a breeding ground for misinformation, especially so since many people like to read only those things that they agree with to begin with. There are indeed some very real risks to this medium.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. To say 'the internet' is not a good tool for learning is like saying books are no good because

Ann Coulter writes some of them. The internet is the very best tool for self education ever created. This is one of my favorite websites American Memory from the Library of Congress:
https://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html

[leftstreet]

24. +1

[Raster]

26. Thank you!

Excellent resource link.

As with most things in life, the Internet is what you make of it.

[Rex]

19. Yep, a lot of people do that.

Graduates from Google U. My thing, always look at the source of the information. Sometimes it is legit and can be verified and sometimes it is total garbage someone made up to 'win' an argument on the WWWs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. I know ...

I am of the opinion that for most people, with respect to most of the stuff on the internet, if it's understandable, it's probably simplified to the point it is useless; and, if it is on point accurate, most wouldn't understand it ... and that's where The Dunning–Kruger effect kicks in.

[Rex]

21. That is a good point, I see it as were some are getting layman's level information

yet think it is at the master class level. And there is nothing wrong with knowing something at least at layman's level, don't get me wrong.

Just not a very good match between layman's level googling and a masters or PHd in that field - when it comes to argument we know who is going to lose every time.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. You're right ... Nothing wrong with getting/having a layman's level understanding ...

of a topic ... unless one doesn't know/think/won't admit that it is a layman's understanding.

Just not a very good match between layman's level googling and a masters or PHd in that field - when it comes to argument we know who is going to lose every time.

Would that be the fact ... on the internet, he/she that types the most condescendingly, inflammatory, last ... wins the argument.

[Rex]

23. Yeah it does seem like that is how a lot of conversations end.

Someone uses an insult and then 11 replies later all that is left is who gets in the last insult - for no points.

[Ms. Toad]

25. I have used the internet for decades

for quick education on a variety of topics.

* To my daughter's rare disease (35,000 in the US; I got the diagnosis before her doctor did)
* To evaluate two treatment options for a condition I have (and to point out to the doctor what was wrong - and why - before he acknowledged his treatment partially failed
* To learn enough C+ to call engineers on their fibs when they were trying ignore a patent infringement claim
* To investigate a variety of individuals connected with ongoing legal cases (opposing parties, opposing counsel, and judges)
* To write and edit copy on a wide range of topics
* To repair electronic devices so I don't have to spend an arm and a leg to buy a new one (including swapping out hard drives, replacing inverters, screens, LED panels, etc.)
* To understand a new scientific field well enough to rule out prior patent art
* Pretty much anything else I want to learn about

The internet is one of the best tools for self-education available, for both quick and slow. You do have to be an informed consumer who knows how to sort reliable sources/information from total garbage - but the same is true for books or any other resource for education.

[petronius]

27. I am confident in my ability to research and learn, and I disagree that the internet

is a poor tool for it--with the caveat that "internet" includes the full gamut of online resources (and not just Wikipedia, the blogosphere, and a swing through the first few results-pages from a handful of google searches).

Properly used, online tools provide access to a far larger variety of resources, and with more rapid access, than was previously available. I would not say that the 'internet' will always provide the only tools necessary for any given topic, but I will say that it has made education (of both the formal and independent variety) faster and more efficient.

Now whether many/most/all researchers make use of online tools in a comprehensive, rigorous, and thoughtful way, or whether there's an epidemic of self-assessed google-fu expertise on any given topic, is another set of questions entirely...

[Blanks]

28. The internet can't be beat...

For those who say read a book, the books aren't always the latest version. As an engineer, I have to look up the latest permit requirements and the only way you can be sure that it's the most current information is to pull it directly off the web site. A lot of times its new material (to me), but the university worked very hard to make certain that we spoke the language before they unleashed us onto the world.

The government resources that are out there are just phenomenal. The Army Corps of Engineers has all kinds of stuff, and the USGS, EPA has a Google earth overlay, if you want to know where historical sites are, there's an overlay for that too. State governments have all kinds of wonderful education right at your fingertips too

As far as arguing politics, same thing, lots of resources at the department of labor etc. The problem is that no chart, graph, or exquisitely compiled table will overrule the wisdom of a bit of text over an image of the flag or Sam Elliot, or better yet Sam Elliot in front of the flag. That's gonna be what the folks you're arguing with respond to.

[jberryhill]

30. The Internet is a good tool for self education

However, critical thinking skills developed from some other area of study make a huge difference.

Finding "information" on the Internet is the easy part. Evaluating it is the tricky part.

[Agnosticsherbet]

31. Without some knowledge of a subject, it is impossible to know

What Internet source is accurate, propaganda, data spun to misdirect, or complete bullshit.

When I need to understand a topic, I look for books or material published with some peer review. I will look up experts on the subject and seek out their publications.

An unregulated Internet is a great tool, but not to be trusted as a teacher.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. This ...

Without some knowledge of a subject, it is impossible to know What Internet source is accurate, propaganda, data spun to misdirect, or complete bullshit.

is my, exact, point ... and I will acknowledge, we tend to over-estimate our ability to discern among the 4.

[Sivart]

33. I still completely disagree......

Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

I think the actual truth to what you are saying is that a sizable percentage of people are lazy as hell when it comes to learning and they want to get all of the correct information with all of the work done for them spoon fed to them from a single source.

Being able to discern from those 4 is a skill that can be honed, improved upon, and very reliable when developed. Lets not give the lazy people a pass by blaming the internet because research takes time and effort. This has always been the case, even before the internet.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. Actually, we are agreeing ...

There IS a sizable percentage of people are lazy as hell when it comes to learning and they want to get all of the correct information with all of the work done for them spoon fed to them from a single source, and the internet facilitates this. However, there is a larger percentage of people that are merely seeking confirmation for what they already believe, and the internet facilitates that.

But I believe the vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle ... they seek knowledge on a topic, and tend to gravitate towards sources that spell things out, simply, and understandably, that confirms their beliefs; but, lack the ability, or desire, to distinguish between what is "truth", and propaganda, and inaccurate, OPINION found on the internet.

[Sivart]

35. Your original point was about the internet....not about people.....

Your original point, I thought, was that the internet is NOT a good tool for learning quickly.

We are bombarded with bullshit everyday. The internet is not special in this regard. The internet is full of BS. TV is full of BS. Newspapers are full of BS. My boss BS's me, my kids BS me, movies BS me, documentaries BS me, teachers BS me, friends BS me, calorie labels on food BS me....and I could go on and on and on and on.

If you are going to be part of this world, you better learn to recognize and deal with bullshit from everywhere......not just the internet.

The internet is an invaluable tool for anyone seeking knowledge. This is not the same as stating that everything on the internet is accurate. The internet has the same ratio of bullshit that real life has, IMO.

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. I thought my original point ...

if reading the two propositions together ... was the internet is NOT a good tool for quick learning because of how people use it and because people (largely) do not have the capacity, or desire, to discern between fact and opinion.