European Leaders Tell a Dazed Britain to Get Going on ‘Brexit’

[Person 2713]

They want to leave, but not now, later.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/world/europe/brexit-eu-vote-fallout.html?_r=0
“I do not understand why the British government needs until October to decide whether to send the divorce letter to Brussels,” Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, told German television.
“I would like it immediately,” he said. “It is not an amicable divorce, but it was also not an intimate love affair.”

The emergency meeting of foreign ministers from the European Union’s six founding states — Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands — revealed impatience and exasperation with Britain.

The EU has other considerable challenges, including the migrant crisis, Greece’s turbulent economy and sanctions on Russia over Ukraine. European leaders, looking at Spanish elections on Sunday and German and French elections next year, want the uncertainty around the British question resolved as soon as possible so they can try to show their own voters that Brussels is capable and on track.

[former9thward]

9. They are the world's 5th largest economy.

They will do just fine out of the EU despite the bitter losers.

[840high]

10. .+1

[PaulaFarrell]

12. maybe, maybe not

Only time will tell. They'll carry on, but whether they will be fine - just dunno at this point. I guess it will still be fine for the wealthy.

[former9thward]

17. Ridiculous exaggerations.

One of the reasons Brexit won was people reacting to that nonsense.

[brush]

30. Jaguar is owned by an Indian corp. not Chinese, but I agree, brexit is gonna hurt

[enid602]

34. random thoughts

Don't forget that Britain's other big cash cow is attracting wealthy immigrants from Asia, M.E. and Africa who are seeking a safe haven for their considerable wealth. With a declining Pound and all the xenophobic rhetoric well, there goes London's fabled real estate market.

PS: it's interesting that the boomers in the UK are exhibiting insularity, protectionism and entitlement, whereas the millenials are more international and forward thinking in their outlook. Almost the exact opposite of the US, at least among Dems. Good to see that POC on both sides of the pond are on the right side of issues.

[Yavin4]

38. They do have the Beatles catalog

So there's that,

[pampango]

15. Of course they will but there is a reason that the far-right has led the Brexit charge.

If Boris Johnson becomes prime minister (with Nigel Farage in his government) look out below!

[treestar]

25. What is the meaning of that

http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp.php

I see it there, but the EU countries are separated out. What is the EU as compared to what would they be?

1 United States 18,558.130 25.081 19,285 20,145 21,016 21,874 22,766
2 China 11,383.030 15.384 12,263 13,338 14,605 16,144 17,762
3 Japan 4,412.600 5.963 4,514 4,562 4,676 4,800 4,895
4 Germany 3,467.780 4.687 3,592 3,697 3,822 3,959 4,066
5 United Kingdom 2,760.960 3.731 2,885 2,999 3,123 3,256 3,374
6 France 2,464.790 3.331 2,538 2,609 2,700 2,804 2,895
7 India 2,288.720 3.093 2,488 2,725 3,007 3,315 3,660
8 Italy 1,848.690 2.498 1,902 1,943 1,994 2,051 2,092
9 Brazil 1,534.780 2.074 1,556 1,609 1,677 1,749 1,829
10 Canada

France is right behind them. It would be more interesting to see how the EU fits in if counted as an economy.

[former9thward]

27. It is not counted as an economy because it isn't one.

28 countries with different histories, cultures, legal traditions, demographics will never work as one economy. It is hypocritical for the U.S. to suggest the UK should be in the EU when the U.S. -- and all of its leaders of either party -- would oppose that type of arrangement for the U.S.

[brush]

31. The US is already in a federal union — 50 states worth.

[former9thward]

32. Its one country with a similar history, culture, and institutions.

Funny how the same people who are so opposed to NAFTA and the TPP want to lecturer the UK about staying in a failure called the EU.

[brush]

35. Not sure the EU is a complete failure

Just reading some of the online articles on Brexit buyers remorse tells me that even some of the UK areas that benefited the most from EU funding (areas of Wales and England) voted against their own economic interests to leave.

The Euro Zone, the currency piece, needs a complete overhaul to make it for Greece and Spain. I understand that the EU and Euro Zone are not one and the same thing.

[treestar]

37. Well I thought that was what they were trying to do

All join together to be larger.

[NBachers]

2. All the King's horses and all the King's men

[scscholar]

3. They voted against their own best interests...

so expect this vote to get ignored and GB to stay in the EU.

[Socal31]

6. Huh?

[roamer65]

8. There will be negotiations on an "associate membership".

I highly doubt the UK parliament will invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. Britain will end up with an EU status that countries like Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy will envy. It will be in the trade bloc but still have a decent amount of autonomy and its own national currency.

The Italians would give their left nut to have the lira back.

[PaulaFarrell]

11. It already has a decent amount of autonomy and its own currency

The EU won't fold on this. If they do, every country will try its own version of blackmail. If Britain gets to opt out of free movement of people (which is what this referendum was about), many countries will want the same deal, and the whole concept falls apart. The EU hopes that Britain will stumble badly and be an example to the rest - its not going to lend them a helping hand.

[HereSince1628]

14. About calling Brexit blackmail...

It seems to me that Britain would have no leverage in "blackmail" if an asymmetry didn't exist.

It seems that an act of blackmail would only apply if Britain gets a benefit out of this at the cost of the EU.

Stood on it's head that would seem to suggest that in the years before the vote that Britain was subjected to some sort of cost (which might not be monetary), whose payment gave the EU a benefit.

I realize that the narrative/belief has been that the relationship of member nations to the EU was a win-win. And it may have seemed that way when the EU grew out of other European agreements on energy and trade.

But was it, really win-win anymore?

[PaulaFarrell]

18. guess we'll see

I think Britain leaving will be lose-lose

[HereSince1628]

20. Yes, I think we'll see, but I think something odd is on because

there is acceptance that other nation's will be doing similar referendums with an expectation that more nations will opt out of the EU.

People aren't always entirely rational, but millions of people across multiple countries coming to similar consensus suggest there is one value, or perhaps a sum of values, to be attained in leaving the EU.

I wouldn't presume to understand that in any detail, especially based on higly politicized American media.

[PaulaFarrell]

22. yes they all hate immigrants

Its not complicated

[HereSince1628]

23. Some certainly so, but I think that view probably overlooks much, and I suspect

that belief very well could have led people to think 'leave' was favored only by extremists who are in a minority.

Getting out to 52% in Britain, and getting to significant calls for similar referendums in other nations doesn't really seem about fringe xenophobes.

Nationalism can involve issues in addition to xenophobia, and I've watched a number of videos since last week that suggest that other reasons really may also exit. Although without opinion research about why people voted to leave it's pretty hard for someone a quarter of the way around the world to understand the balance of that.

As anyone familiar with DU well knows, reliance on facile explanations is pretty common when considering behavior of political opponents,

[PaulaFarrell]

24. you can say lots of words

I live here. It was an anti-immigrant vote. You can argue but you will be wrong

[HereSince1628]

28. I'm not arguing. I'm waiting on more information, and info that has matured with analysis

Early explanations are very often full of mistakes and I'm not sure proximity to is any guarantee of correct understanding.

Media and politicians from Europe and the UK, who are much more proximate than I am are suggesting this was quite a surprise.

How did that happen? It certainly was based on their understanding of opinion near to and surrounding them. And their expectation apparently wasn't correct. Of course that could all be a show for American television, we do have trouble with credible reporting

If 52 percent of a population is xenophobic, I suspect the pollsters of a nation would have detected that. I can't say the government would have known that when they proposed the referendum long ago. Certainly in the past year the refugee situation has become both ugly and very important. Terrorist have made and attacks and all that may have shifted anxieties and opinions. But I would think those opinions should have been detectable.

Again the surprise suggests to me that support was greater than expected and greater than what people thought was the level of xenophobia. Such surprise suggests some things were overlooked, even if the immigration issue hold much of the leverage.

But other things than national opinion impact voting. From my perspective turnout seemed pretty good compared to American performance, but a voter turnout biased toward leave could cause a result that doesn't conform to national opinion, we see that all the time in American elections. And, again I can't really evaluate that from a quarter of a world away.

[PaulaFarrell]

36. it was always close

And there were lots of undecideds up to the last minute. I couldn't call it myself.
But xenophobia is a well known trait of the English - not ALL of course. I'm not saying they're racist, its more subtle than that.

[auntpurl]

29. I have literally yet to see anyone on DU who actually LIVES in the UK

say this was anything other than anti-immigration. Wait, sorry, there is one. But ONE, out of all of us who live in the UK. You'd think people who weren't actually HERE and didn't start paying attention to this until 2 days ago might believe that we have a general idea what happened.

It does try the patience.

[Takket]

4. i don't blame them for wanting this over with quick

many corporations centered their EU operations in the UK. now they are going to pull out and go to other EU nations. I'm sure places like France and Germany are eager for the job growth.

[msongs]

5. france/germany did not want the UK in the EU anyway: "but it was also not an intimate love affair"

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. They should invoke article 50 and fuck right off this week

The people have voted for it and their leaders have pledged to abide by it. So fucking leave.

I agree: what's with this October shit? begin the unwind post haste and cut the bullshitting. No special deals for the Brexit voters. Leave and fuck off.

[tritsofme]

26. Sounds petty and vindictive to me.

The British people have made their decision, and now the government should proceed carefully. Britain is the only one who can trigger Article 50, I don't believe the EU can dictate this timeline.

Cameron is a lame duck, it makes sense that the task of negotiating a departure from the EU should belong to a Brexit government.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Too bad, they can whistle for it

not going to happen for some time, if it happens at all (which it may not).

[vintx]

21. That's a great idea.

Why not risk spreading the sense of crisis (or more than already exists) to the rest of the EU, solely for their own benefit?

[mwrguy]

33. UK can become a preserve where Europe exiles its Islamophobes and xenophobes