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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman Who Spanked Her Children With Belt After She Caught Them Stealing Gets Arrested And Sets Off..
Woman Who Spanked Her Children With Belt After She Caught Them Stealing Gets Arrested And Sets Off Firestorm Of DebateLOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) A woman spanked her children after she says she caught them stealing and her subsequent arrest has touched off a firestorm about spanking, discipline, parental rights and abuse.
The question is how much is too much?
The single mother of six apparently found out that three of her kids (boys ages 10-13) broke into a neighbors house and stole property. After spanking the kids with a belt, she was taken to jail and her other children removed from her home.
Schaquana Evita Spears was quick to justify her actions on a local TV station.
Everything I do is for my kids, and because I didnt want them to commit another crime, She also added, she could not live without her children.
more...
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/06/24/woman-who-spanked-her-children-with-belt-after-she-caught-them-stealing-gets-arrested-and-sets-off-firestorm-of-debate/
anoNY42
(670 posts)A different story I read yesterday mentioned that she left marks.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)around which means the belt can end up landing anywhere and making marks. Maybe some people don't believe in corporal punishment and that is their right but the kids were older and knew better. If they were caught and went to a detention home that may have been far worse.
I grew up in a time when, in a situation like this, the belt would not be questioned. In fact I had a 1st grade teacher that had paddles. Now a day parents rights have been totally undermined and kids are supposed to be treated like China dolls. They play a sport and everyone on the team has to get an award because ther should not be a "loser". Dress codes can hardly be enforced because individuality needs to be able to be "expressed". School is a place to learn and get prepared for real life. No wonder kids are having difficulty as adults.
Authority has been turned upside down. The family unit is being destroyed.
This woman and those children are dealing with the influence of social media, television, a society getting it's values screwed up and no realistic view of what is taking place around them.
BTW. This is coming from a liberal.
anoNY42
(670 posts)Sounds pretty Republican to me. I was not whipped as a child and I still respected authority.
Demit
(11,238 posts)They're not.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd inaccurately infer as much also to if it validated my biases.
840high
(17,196 posts)with this Mom. Spanking i better than jail.
cornball 24
(1,475 posts)A mother of six raising her children alone while working who is trying to keep her children on track is losing her family to a broken system. Well ain't that just great!! Obviously, she is a perfect target for those who have never walked in her shoes. I am sickened by the harsh judgment in many of the responses on D.U.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Why does anyone think that's so awful? Some people. Those people should DEFINITELY be judged.
cornball 24
(1,475 posts)word used to describe the situation. Not sarcasm!
kcr
(15,315 posts)Wow! Amazing!!!!!!!!! Everyone has their first time experiencing things, and it's wonderous amazement. Glad I could expand your horizons.
cornball 24
(1,475 posts)as you pontificate about expanding my "horizons". Ain't you jes the e-pity-me of no-ledge! Yawn!
kcr
(15,315 posts)I must have misunderstood. I thought you meant it was first time you heard vicious when referring to a beating with a belt. That seemed to be the gist of your post. But, clearly, I was wrong.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)I've thankfully never seen a child beaten to death. Most people haven't. Yes, beatings with belts that leave marks are brutal. If your definition of vicious leaves out brutal, well. I know which bar I think should be used.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Instead, they raised three kids who all graduated college and have worked and contributed all of their lives and never had any trouble with the law.
I would have been MUCH better in a foster home doing it for the money. Right.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Goodness, if only there could be a time machine.....
adigal
(7,581 posts)My parents were very good people. This is what they did back then. None of us were scarred from a spanking. It was NOT abuse.
And BTW, do you have kids?? Do you have a car video?? I think that is abuse, or at the least, neglect. Do you let your kids watch their ipads at dinner, or shove an ipad in their faces when they are 2 years old?? Abuse. It is BAD for kids' brains, all sorts of research is coming out.
If you do those things, I want you arrested for abuse. Because...it's my opinion.
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'm sure they're wonderful people. Am I supposed to change my opinion and make children open season to beatings because of people I've never met? I'm sorry. But, no.
What the sam hell is a car video? And, let me get this straight. Beating children with belts, which causes excruciating pain, is a-okay. But Ipads are abuse? Um. Yeah. I'm going to stick with my assessment of what is and isn't abuse. But, thanks. And, again, I'll say, I'm totally sure your parents were awesome.
adigal
(7,581 posts)is abuse. God forbid parents talk to their kids. No, parents anesthesize their kids so they can blab on their cell phones. And ipads, etc, actively damage young brains. Abuse. Look at the research.
And I don't believe in spanking, but I also don't think this mother was abusive.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Chatting on political message boards? Is that abuse? Nah, I bet that isn't.
Anyway, so is there some function I'm not aware of with car videos (whatever that is. I still haven't had that explained to me) that mutes people so they can't talk? That's horrible. Something should be done about that. I do favor regulation.
adigal
(7,581 posts)But seems to be very popular nowadays!!
kcr
(15,315 posts)Are they leaving them alone in the house/car? If so, then that act is neglect, whether there is a TV/video in the house or car, or not.
Otherwise, show the neglect. What is happening. Is it the voice stealing mechanism so people can't talk? Is it some electronic zapping thing? What?
adigal
(7,581 posts)And yes, with everyone glued to their devices, there is no talking. The devices do seem to steal their voices. I watched a young couple at lunch put an ipad in front of their one year old and proceed to ignore him/her the entire meal. A family of six all texted during dinner, completely ignoring each other.
Children's brains need conversation - not TV or video dialogue, real conversation. Ignoring that is neglect, at the least. Lock them all up.
I bet you have a car video.
kcr
(15,315 posts)What is a car video? You still haven't explained this contraption to me. I thought I was up on all the latest tech, too.
You are backwards on the science, I'm afraid: http://thescientificparent.org/its-official-we-can-all-calm-down-about-screen-time/
adigal
(7,581 posts)There are more and more studies on the limited pathways kids have in their brains because of the same repetition over and over. That boredom creates creativity and creative problem solving. Handwritten notes are better for recall. Students can't attend to a project or topic for more than short periods of time due to internet use. Students aren't able to analyze a passage for deeper meaning as well as before technology.
I'm a teacher, and these are just a few of the things we have been taught in the past two years.
And you know what car videos are. Video players in a car.
kcr
(15,315 posts)They're citing the American Academy of Pediatrics. But, okay. I've got other sources of the exact same thing you might like better. A few, in fact
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanshapiro/2015/09/30/the-american-academy-of-pediatrics-just-changed-their-guidelines-on-kids-and-screen-time/#766ae54f137c
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/health/screen-time-rules-change-pediatricians/
And surely you will trust:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pediatricians-rethink-screen-time-policy-for-children-1444671636
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)This is survivor bias, its quite rampant for survivors of all sorts of stupidity.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)go to totally different school system is better while being jerked out of their home. The guilt that they will feel will hurt much more than the belt and for a longer period for period of time. The embarrassment of what happened coming out to all of these kids friends will come out and will humiliate these kids. The possible bad influence of other kids in the foster home might cause more damage. It definetly is more traumatic.
Kids, especially boys, can get carried away and do something really stupid like this. Society has stepped in and in their infinite wisdom they have totally dealt with the situation like the imbeciles that they are and I would venture to say that their stupid ideas that are undermining parental authority could very well have led to what the boys were doing to begin with, which makes it harder and harder for parents to control their children. Yet if something goes wrong the authorities are quick to point the fingers at the parents when kids get into trouble. It is insane.
I like your "sarcasm" but seriously there is a bigger picture here than what you obviously have looked at.
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'd like to know just how bad abuse has to be before action is justified. I note that those who use this justification for sanctioning abuse rarely answer it. See, I happen to think the answer to this problem is making the system better. Not coddling child abusers.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)
dislocated her shoulder when she went to hit my teenage brother. She went to the doctor and she told him what happened (this was before a doctor was legally obligated to report "child abuse" He laughed and told her you have good feet, kick him. Next time she did and she broke her toe.
If you got in trouble with my dad ..well my brother, not a lot but every so often, he would get a "spanking" so my dad would take him in the garage. I laugh now because it reminds me of the old "woodshed". He didn't do that to me or my sister though. My mom was a hair puller...Spanker.
I am still here. I am not in jail. So many of my friends were "spanked" didn't really do "bad" things because they were scared of what would happen if they were caught. These are now college educated people who are very successful. Some of my friends parents didn't spank. It varied from family to family. Some of the kids that did get in trouble came from families where the parents didn't spank and some came from families that did. I just know that my friends and many people that I have met thruout my life have had corporal punishment and all agree that it is not, child abuse. They are 2 different things and have been for centuries. Society has changed the definition of both and decided that they are one in the same.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)or if the abuser thinks they're doing the right thing. To me, it doesn't matter, just as it's irrelevant for victims of other crimes. The crime itself is terrible, and children have a right to be protected from it. If it were an effective parenting tool to use electro shock on children, I doubt many of the same people would be advocating for it. It's not relevant. Also not relevant whether it was considered abuse in the past.
A lot of things weren't considered wrong in the past that are now. Society evolves and progresses and laws change to reflect that. There is a conservative element that yearns for the past, thinking it was so much better and the laws should reflect that. They're wrong.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)decided to believe. It is now a crime because there are people that decided that wanted to make it a crime. People that insist on being "evolved" and that everybody else are breaking laws and or criminals just are not practical and haven't been around long enough to remember the good old days when kids respected authority in general...When I knew what what expected of me. My kids feel the same way. Even my older grandkids feel the same way. They see one of the kids that has totally gotten her way and controls the adults. The world evolves around her needs. When kids get too difficult for the parents to handle they take their kids to the doctors and get labeled with ADD. ADHD and put on some type of medication. Medical science has "evolved" helping with children's problems.
The mother is not a criminal. It is too bad that the "evolved" society has decided to make her one.
kcr
(15,315 posts)on their own. And yeah, I'm sure that the people who enjoyed the crime before it was illegal usually want to keep on doing the crime and never think it's practical. Bummer.
As for the rest of your post. Yep. Change. Medicine, technology, everything advances. The same old-school backward looking people hate that, too. Bummer.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)reasons. The control of information on a mass scale is now possible. OYeah GMO, antibiotics in our foods, a pill for every ailment, 10 year olds with cell phones,
GAD, Prescription drugs are now killing far more people than illegal drugs, and while most major causes of preventable deaths are declining, those from prescription drug use are increasing, an analysis of recently released data from the U.S. C, overuse of technology can cause "Digital Dementia"
Assault Weapons, cheese that has sawdust in it, jobs that been shipped overseas, minimum wage that has been stagnant for over 25 years, laws that allow drug companies to bargain price of prescriptions in foreign countries but not in this country...... Those medical, technological and legal advances? Notice the lack of sarcasm? That is part of of sincerity and respect that I learned growing up.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)This mother is trying her best and social services should be helping her, not undermining her. UGH
This could have been handled so much better.
kcr
(15,315 posts)child abuse doesn't just happen in poor families. It's illegal if you're rich or poor.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)as a catchall for CPS. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
kcr
(15,315 posts)It's illegal, rich or poor.
swhisper1
(851 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)But beating with a belt is.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)There are enough people solving their issues with violence.
A better idea would be to have the kids talk to some cops/former inmates to get a better picture of where a life of thievery will lead.
If beatings worked to cure deceit, greed, thievery and thuggery, we could all take our paddles, belts, switches and brass knuckles and go straighten out our legislators, judges and Wall Street, then lay a hurtin' on some Koch Brothers, Trumpsters and Paul Ryan.
If we can't use violence to cure our political, judicial and economic leaders--who are all grown adults well aware of the criminal nature of their choices--and turn them from their sinful ways by beating the fuck out of them, why would we turn around and use violence, welts and bruising to correct mere children?
Sounds like favoring the beating of children is more of a misguided, bloodthirsty focus on working out your violent nature by inflicting pain and sorrow and degradation on the "weakest among you" to me.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)I don't know how old these kids are, but 1. Loss of privileges, 2. Restitution of losses, 3. Apologies also teach values, ownership, consequences more than getting whacked.
Warpy
(111,222 posts)and when an object is used, that's a beating, whether it's a belt, hair brush, or slab of wood.
Were these kids due punishment? Oh hell, yes. It should have been swift, sure, and humiliating as they were forced to return the property in person and work out a plan to pay for any damage they caused to the neighbor's house.
I doubt the authorities would have reacted had the mother swatted those kids with her hand. Using an object that left marks crossed the line. I do think taking the kids away was extreme and shouldn't have been done.
Oh, yeah, I went to schools in the south where a blister board was on display in the principal's office. It didn't make me behave. It did make me a little sneakier.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I grew up during a time when seat belts were as rare as drinking and driving laws. Now we can't even do that anymore! Damned authoritarians undermining our rights. No wonder road rage is so endemic.
kcr
(15,315 posts)It's not dancing around. It's writhing in pain because one is being beaten. It's trying to avoid being assaulted. This woman was thrown in jail because she assaulted her kids. Period.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)And even if an argument might be made for a quick tap if a 2 year old runs into the street, there is no reason to use corporal punishment on children who can be reasoned with. It just teaches violence -- everything we don't want them to learn.
I have successfully raised children to adulthood and watched the children of my friends and relatives grow up and I know it requires discipline -- but not this kind of discipline.When a parent physically acts out like this mother, he or she either (1) taking the lazy way out or (2) having an adult version of a temper tantrum.
I think values were much more screwed up when society thought it was fine for parents to abuse their children.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)My experience is that people who like to dish out violence are the least well-prepared to receive it.
CanonRay
(14,093 posts)I got the belt all the time. Personally, I think she did the right thing. Stealing is pretty serious and getting away with it can easily lead to worse behavior.
adigal
(7,581 posts)I didn't need to be removed from the home. I had good parents, a stable, loving home, that was just how they disciplined.
Give the woman some counseling on other ways to discipline and teach her children and put those kids back with their mom. She seems like a loving mom who maybe didn't know another way to teach her kids to NOT steal, which could put them in jail if they don't learn now.
Stupid.
swhisper1
(851 posts)parents have leeway if they do not harm. Spanking made me aware of social limitations, words would not have had any effect. Today kids disrespect their parents at age 5. Dont spank with a hand, always use a noisy bendable object. Its the action that frightens the kid, not the pain. Kids dont care if you are disappointed, they do care if you show anger. A belt through clothing wont leave a mark. The kids should be with their mom, period
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)If you have to put the fear of a beating into your kid in order for them to temporarily obey you, you have failed as a parent.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)does that?
Seriously, horsewhipping?
Not to mention the fact that it doesn't work as discipline.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Maybe spanking doesn't work for the majority, but I will tell you, I was afraid of my mother hitting me, so I stayed away from the "bad" kids and didn't do "bad" things. So it works for some.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I'm sorry you had to go through that. That's awful.
ON EDIT: But don't perpetuate the cycle.
adigal
(7,581 posts)She did me a favor.
And please don't lecture me - my kids are all grown and I never hit them, because I am a very different person than my mother. I like to explain things to my kids, which of course, is better, but they also did things that I NEVER would have done and those things affected the lives they live now in a bad way.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)bad things that you claimed your mother beating you allowed you to avoid?
You display survivor bias, plain and simple, you are somewhat well adjusted, and if what you are saying is true, you didn't pass the abuse on to your children. That's good, but its not evidence that spanking is an effective disciplinary method. In fact, study after study shows that it is not.
kcr
(15,315 posts)because that's beyond the reach of parenting classes. Children need to be protected from that.
Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #143)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)its not like its just my opinion:
http://news.utexas.edu/2016/04/25/risks-of-harm-from-spanking-confirmed-by-researchers
Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #190)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)think that violence is an acceptable outlet to solve problems.
ON EDIT: In addition, where is the evidence that this "occasional" use of physical punishment would actually lead to positive outcomes?
Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #207)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Th1onein (Reply #216)
Post removed
kcr
(15,315 posts)Spanking is outmoded and conservative and not based in current science. Skinner lived in a different time.
Response to kcr (Reply #193)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #204)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)that support your claims, then make grandiose claims again.
Question, do those industries spank their employees?
Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #217)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,315 posts)But, I think it's telling that the scientific community, including most behaviorists, have abandoned spanking. It doesn't take a scientist figure out the reason for that.
Response to kcr (Reply #225)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to swhisper1 (Reply #139)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)other disagree, but a lot of people in this thread think getting beat with a belt is normal and GOOD. How fucked up is that?
Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #213)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)The idea of spanking is just barbaric and atrocious.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)to the children, particularly if done often.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...despite the overwhelming evidence that it's counterproductive.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)FSogol
(45,466 posts)beating children works.
Violence isn't the best way to solve problems.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)Some rights you can't consent to giving up. For example, you can't consent to letting someone murder you.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Picking such a gross false equivalency demonstrates why.
kcr
(15,315 posts)This was a beating that left marks. Not the same thing.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Not severity.
If you are an adult and you want your ass beat till it's black and blue and you can find someone willing to do so, nobody else has any business saying you can't. The places in the world where consensual BDSM practices are illegal are few and far between as outdated notions of sexuality are going by the wayside.
It's the fact that it's a beating that makes it not the same thing. Adults can consent to spanking.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Meanwhile police are declining to arrest people for it, prosecutors are declining to prosecute, antiquated assault laws are being changed to allow for it, and the public's Give-A-Fuck-O-Meter regarding what consenting adults do behind close doors is failing to register.
kcr
(15,315 posts)What is your source for claiming police are declining to arrest people for it? For example, I'm not sure police showing up for a domestic violence call are going to simply shrug it off if the claim is it was consensual. Beating is not legal.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Many states still have laws against consensual sodomy still on the books so it's still illegal in lots of places. But police rarely arrest and it's even more rare that prosecutors will prosecute, while Lawrence v. Texas assures convictions are virtually impossible. The same can be said of adultery and fornication laws.
Even my backwards ass state of Texas which created Lawrence v. Texas has a legal exception for consensual BDSM just like numerous other states. So the idea that it's illegal everywhere is demonstrably wrong.
My source is the Model Penal Code which some states have enacted entirely and all states use as a guide for changing laws and deciding whether or not to prosecute others. For at least the last 35 years it has been quite clear on the subject and provides a clear defense for consensual assault. Otherwise people doing tattoos and piercings would likewise be criminally prosecuted.
So what's your source that it is illegal and adults are being arrested for consensual ass beatings? I'm sure it does happen in rare instances, but just like before Lawrence v. Texas and sodomy, those cases are very few and far between because conviction is going to be nearly impossible.
kcr
(15,315 posts)What I am trying to do is avoid minimizing beatings of children by comparing it to consensual acts committed by adults. I don't even know why we had to go there. No one, of any age, can consent to illegal acts. A person cannot consent to bodily harm. And no, I'm not trying to claim that consensual sexual acts, including BDSM, should be made illegal. I don't know what is so hard about this.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Delaware Code Title 11. Crimes and Criminal Procedure §?452.?Consent of victim to inflictions of physical injury as defense
45-2-211. Consent as defense. (1) The consent of the victim to conduct charged to constitute an offense or to the result thereof is a defense.
2006 New Hampshire Statutes - Section 626:6 Consent.
THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE Section 2C:2-10 - Consent
There's lots more if you like.
kcr
(15,315 posts)They all negate consent for serious harm.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)They ain't talkin' bout no ass beating.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Couple of problems with your argument. First of all, that is the definition in one state, Georgia. Number two, because this is an issue that is handled state by state, you ignore that those states often had other exceptions that applied. The reason I have a problem with comparing child abuse to consensual acts by adults is because it minimized abuse by both adults and children. People cannot consent to abuse. If it is abuse, it isn't consensual. I know that some practitioners of consensual activity squawk at this and I have no idea why. If they're truly practicing consensual legal activity then what ox of theirs is being gored, here?
For example, if someone witnesses a person beating another adult with a belt, the other person screaming in agony, and they call the police, and the police witnesses visible, bleeding wounds, the police may well arrest the offender, even if the victim claims they consented because of current domestic abuse laws.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So that is yet another problem out of many in your argument, not mine. I never claimed every state had such exceptions. In fact, I specifically mentioned some didn't. So that's another problem with your argument. Being arrested doesn't mean you broke the law, as you alleged, which is another problem with your argument that was demonstrably wrong, not to mention I specifically differentiated between what goes on among consenting adults vs children. Everything which followed was an attempt to draw comparisons where none existed.
kcr
(15,315 posts)The answer is your point about that being a universal legal standard in the context of what we're talking about is irrelevant. Consent isn't this magic wand that confers automatic and absolute protection against everything. A cop may not care if a victim claims they gave consent for that black eye, definition for bodily harm be damned. And that's the way it should be.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I also previously pointed out that an arrest doesn't necessarily mean a law was broken, and never claimed consent constituted, "automatic and absolute protection against everything". Since you're simply repeating yourself and building bigger strawmen, I'm out. Feel free to continue without me.
kcr
(15,315 posts)The only reason I brought up a black eye is because you keep defending the comparison.
I never said an arrest means a law was broken. I didn't mean to imply that. But an arrest can certainly lead to charges, so in that context I meant that if the intent is consensual activity, then a couple might take care not to attract attention, because it simply isn't true that there are broad legal protections in that area. There just aren't. Hell, even adultery is still banned in some states. Some notion of a broad definition of bodily harm is no protection. This is the USA we're talking about.
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)here in Billings. A guy told his girl friend he wanted her to kill him. So she did. She got in the back seat of the car and choked him,(who was in the front seat) and killed him. She just got 60 years.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)I think she went too far, but see the below paragraph from the article:
She told the local Baton Rouge station the father of her children was incarcerated and she didnt want her kids going down that road. In fact, she stressed that they see her going to work every day as a chef and she has them in magnet schools and on the honor roll.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Seriously, what is up with this excuse that underdeveloped people(children) should have less civil rights than adults. If we gave adults these same punishments, we would be howling about human rights abuses, but because they are kids, its excusable?
Why didn't she turn them in, or have the neighbor press charges? Or how about therapy for having such a shitty mother?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)and counter-productive as giving your kids the belt.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)also need a safe environment to be in.
adigal
(7,581 posts)that are often doing it for the money where FAR WORSE things happen to kids...Christ. This is why many people think liberals are idiots and don't think things through.
From,
A Thinking Liberal
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Abusive parents should be separated from their children and punished as appropriate. If they can demonstrate a willingness to change, they may get reunited. If they can't understand what they are doing is wrong, they shouldn't be custodial parents. It's just that simple.
Nobody thinks that way in the case of spousal abuse, even though adults at least have a chance of escaping violence. If not protected by the state, children have far fewer options.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)are good starts, IMO.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Ilsa
(61,690 posts)Implement a schedule of chores, even if it is at a relative's. Remove a favorite food.
I grew up poor as almost anyone. There is almost always something preferred that can be removed for a limited time to indicate unpleasant consequences rather than a beating.
840high
(17,196 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Wow, she's fucking mom of the year, and frankly I doubt this is the first time she's ever used a belt on her kids, look how well its working so far.
840high
(17,196 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)I can't even have a discussion when something like that is said. They are FAR different things.
And I never hit my kids. But this is just silly.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Fortunately the law is far more clearer than the lines you would prefer to blur.
Willfully inflict any cruel or inhuman corporal punishment or injury resulting in a traumatic condition upon a minor. Corporal punishment is not in and of itself child abuse; it is if it causes internal or external injuries.
(Unintentional injuries occur more often when the parent is out of control or uses any object (i.e. switch, belt, spoon) to administer the punishment.
Corporal punishment is reportable to Child Protective Services when:
It causes external and/or internal injuries to the child (i.e., a mark lasting more than two hours after the child is hit), OR could reasonably have been expected to cause internal/external injury.
The parent or caretaker uses harsh disciplinary measures (cruel/unusual punishments) or impulsively uses out of control discipline (screaming profanity or humiliating language at child while repeatedly hitting with significant force or venting frustration on child).
http://www.thecapcenter.org/who/news/what-is-unlawful-corporal-punishment
adigal
(7,581 posts)the parent should go to jail?? Please. How long did the belt marks last??
I don't agree with hitting with a belt. I don't agree with hitting. But as another person pointed out, a lot of this is cultural, as well.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)She hit them more than once and it left cuts and bruises which don't heal for days, and yes that level of illegal activity should be punished.
In some parts of the world, raping children is cultural. People just don't get a pass for illegal activity because it's accepted among certain groups.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Amazing, that you would even go there.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I wonder how long the abuse has been going on.
840high
(17,196 posts)broken up because of spanking.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Seeinghope
(786 posts)There are generations that turned out to be great law abiding people who where corporal punishment was used. It is just recently that it is all of a sudden "barbaric". Con incidentally kids are becoming less respectful and parents less involved in their kids lives at the same time. When kids act out parents are also blaming teachers and everyone else because values are changing for the worse.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Just because something was socially acceptable at one time, doesn't make it right. And no, spanking doesn't have a social benefit. Quite the reverse is true. The results of long term spanking are anti-social behavior.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)They will run the house now. Those teenagers will hold this against her when ever she says no. This is a mess and overreaction. "Mom. If you don't let us have this, we will call child services and say you threatened to hit us again." And with the child's services already involved they will believe the teenagers. This family is going to see some rough times over this.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If she continues with the abuse, they should call CPS.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)not disciplining her kids.
It seems many are fine with abusing her by throwing her in jail and taking the kids away for a punishment, but somehow her children shouldn't be spanked regardless of actions, actions that could literally cost them their lives.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The strange thing is some liberals advocating jail and having the kids taken away. I just can't believe it.
adigal
(7,581 posts)when out to dinner and have movies on in the car when they should be using that time to actually talk to their kids.
I see those things as abuse. I think parents who have car videos and ipad or iphones at dinner to avoid having to actually interact with their kids should lose them because honestly...I think those things are FAR more damaging to a child than a spanking. And I never spanked my kids.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)A family to home cooked meals. People say that they work now so they can't make meals so that is why there there are so many fast food places . The kid obesity rate has sky rocketed...kids on I-Pad, Cell Phones, watching shows, movies on their devices. Lack of physical activity. That is more dangerous to these kids than anything else.
I have talked to so many older teachers that have said kids have changed and not for the better. I have gone in restaurants and seen families where the adults let their kids make a huge me, pretty much run around uncontrolled and then leave the restaurant with their table looking like a bomb dropped. Or parents in stores letting their kids run wild. Society is teaching that the little darlings must be able to express themselves and that everyone should tolerate loudness, rudeness, lack of respect.......16 year olds getting brand new cars. It is just too bad that this woman trying to raise these boys just found out that when she realized that her sons broke in and robbed from someone's house she should have not called the police and just talked to her son's and grounded them or she should have marched them into the police station, turned them in, put them into the system, subjected herself to being sued from the victim's for her son's activity. Either way she was in a horrible situation. I feel for her.
Arkansas Granny
(31,513 posts)intervening with counseling, parenting classes and home visits and let the kids stay in their home with their mom with appropriate supervision? It would probably be better for the kids and better for mom.
Hekate
(90,616 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)This women sounds like the kind of person who blames everything they don't like on "kids these days" not getting beaten enough. and nobody will change her attitudes.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)It's obvious from DU's many threads on this subject that this is the highest priority.
Acting with compassion will only teach these irredeemable monsters that they deserve to be treated like human beings, and then where will we be?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The failure to separate children from abusive parents sometimes results in dead kids. This is also true of adults, which is why cops routinely forcibly separate abusive spouses.
If the state determines the parent is no longer a threat to the children, they will be reunited at some point.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... I don't see how the officials stepping in help the situation
mnhtnbb
(31,381 posts)Parents are perfectly able to discipline children without resorting to spanking or beating.
I raised two boys and never laid a hand on either one of them. And believe me, there were plenty of times
that discipline was required--it was just never physical--and they not only survived but have turned
into wonderful adults.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)A week without being able to play video games felt like torture to kid me!
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)Ilsa
(61,690 posts)Makes as much sense as letting a 13 yo have access to a gun.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... ok
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)access to a gun is insane, IMO.
Just being sarcastic about her shooting her kid. I'm not sure what the "gun in every purse, belt, holster, etc" group recommends.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Kaleva
(36,291 posts)What was effective punishment for you obviously did not work for the child in the article.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)Yes or no?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)I didn't make a judgement, I simply asked a question about his/her family situation.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Unless there's some magic tipping point between #4 and #6 that I'm not aware of.
I have never ever hit my kids. Never spanked, hit, whipped or any other abuse. Read parenting books. Taught my kids empathy. Get compliments on their behavior wherever we go, from everyone in our lives. My oldest is an adult now, in University. All my kids are honors students. The oldest 2 have had jobs since they were 14. They are compassionate, passionate, loving, artistic, smart, wonderful human beings.
Spanking/hitting/abusing causes more harm and doesn't stop the offending behavior. Just teaches that might makes right. Is more likely to teach the kids to avoid getting caught, not to avoid doing the behavior. If a child is taught empathy, and is taught intrinsic motivation then not much else is needed but some guidance as they grow older. Their own conscience will guide them.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)There is a difference.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Both produce the exact opposite effect as intended. The biggest difference is one is a legal form of child abuse while the other is not.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Not all studies are created equal.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The reason the American Academy of Pediatrics is quite clear on the subject is because the very best information we have on the subject goes one direction and has for quite some time.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/101/4/723
The very best meta-analysis on the subject ends whatever controversy remains.
http://news.utexas.edu/2016/04/25/risks-of-harm-from-spanking-confirmed-by-researchers
rollin74
(1,973 posts)not less
people like this are too ignorant to understand how counter-productive their actions are
I'm glad she was arrested
she sounds like a lousy, violent excuse for a parent
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)was pretty much standard when I was young. Very, very few of us grew up to be criminals.
kcr
(15,315 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)reminds me of that. Maybe we are not criminals. But with other stressors we might have been. If we were middle class maybe we didn't turn into criminals.
We might have issues though. Addiction, etc.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)No, it doesn't
Being abused causes addiction. Being disciplined the same way as all of the other kids were disciplined wasn't abuse.
Being in jail and raped because you got caught stealing - that may cause addiction. Being shot by a homeowner and killed because you broke into their home - that may cause - oh, never mind. Death.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)progressive board.
Not saying it will cause addiction, but other issues, certainly increases the likelyhood.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Instead of actually talking to your kids. Just anesthesize them with some stupid video so you can blab on your cell phone.
Opinions. Everyone has one.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)You try visiting your best friend and then have the cops called to his house while you are there because his dad decided to show up, to give him a righteous whipping for shoplifting. My friend was so scared he wedged himself under the kitchen sink so badly we had to take it apart to get him back out again, after his dad had his drunken ass arrested. So forgive me for taking a no tolerance attitude to physical abuse.
adigal
(7,581 posts)developing brain. A swat on the rear doesn't do permanent damage.
It's just that people like to use computers to entertain and raise their kids so it's ok in 2016.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)does damage children, causing emotional and behavioral problems.
I haven't heard the same from exposure to technology, indeed, some technology, mainly video games, may actually improve cognitive function.
adigal
(7,581 posts)There's also research on how typing notes is not as effective as hand writing them for understanding and recall.
kcr
(15,315 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It's not either/or. As the other poster said, we didn't turn out to be criminals. But it's generally thought by those who made progress since then that hitting your kids did not have a good effect on them. It is not justified to continue on the ground that it was done in the past and didn't seem to have harmed all the people it was done to in some major way. A lot of things were done in the past that apparently did not cause a whole lot of harm, but where it did, it was bad and people nowadays do not want to continue to do it - i.e. pregnant women smoking, wearing seat belts etc. Bicycle helmet. I never had them as a kid and didn't get hurt, but what is wrong with having kids wear them now in case something happens?
RegexReader
(416 posts)than shot by a occupant of the house.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)deaniac21
(6,747 posts)who beat her son with her fists (caught on video)for throwing rocks at police, was made out to be a hero.
Ligyron
(7,622 posts)bare assed too. I was more focused on "taking it like a man" and showing no sign of being in pain than what it was I did wrong. Did no good really.
Years later, I had arguments w my Dad over disciplining my kids this way as I refused to do it.
I remember pointing out that plenty of people in prison got beaten as kids and look where they ended up. That shut him up on that subject.
Plus I had girls and - call me sexist but I was not about to lay this on a female. Those girls turned out better than me too in the behavior department.
Response to Purveyor (Original post)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Or is it no laws protecting children, then. Only white people support those?
Response to kcr (Reply #66)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,315 posts)You don't have to answer, of course.
Response to kcr (Reply #90)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,315 posts)And who is more deserving of protection of the law. Children or parents. That's really what it boils down to. Spankers/beaters think parents have the right to do as they see fit. Others think children are human beings with their own individual rights, and have the right not to be spanked (if they're full on no spankers) or have limits, such as no belt beating.
Response to kcr (Reply #96)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Better I whip his ass now, than have you imprison him, or have some cop kill him, in 8 years."
Heard by 1SBM during a parental competence hearing.
1SBM, in honor of the lessons of his fore-fathers, that survived in this land, approves this message, with full recognition that it might not sit well with others of different historical memory.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)or decreases criminality among adolescents and adults, I'm assuming this is just an excuse to "whip his ass"?
How appalling.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)my families history, living in this country (originally, in the jim crow south) and having most of our male children living into adulthood, informs us differently.
adigal
(7,581 posts)than the blonde, blue eyed kid in the town next door.
I get what you are saying. I didn't spank, but I understand cultural differences. I think it's nuts, these people on this thread, calling spanking child abuse. I'm 54, and we were ALL spanked, and loved and taken very good care of.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the liberals here believe their experience is THE experience and dismiss that other others ... ignoring that their experience didn't include lynching for eye-balling or other acts of perceived defiance.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)or oppression.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)black or white, being spanked does NOT improve behavior and may actually make it worse, not to mention normalizing violence as a way to solve problems.
ON EDIT: I will be frank and say that some personal experience comes into this, my best friend growing up was abused by his father, physical discipline is abuse, period.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)maybe not, but it kept generations of my male fore-fathers, alive.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Also, any evidence it kept your fore-fathers alive?
You concede that it may not improve behavior, so what is it about spanking that you like to dish it out?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Yes ... They lived to reproduce; rather than, becoming strange fruit for (perceived) acts of defiance.
WTF ... where'd you get that from
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)ON EDIT: What is the point of spanking?
ON EDIT again: You still haven't said why you fore-fathers had to spank their children to survive.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The fact that anyone lived through childhood physical punishment doesn't mean that punishment kept them alive anymore than the reduction in the pirate population is causing global warming.
The correlation is much stronger that such punishment actually makes people more likely to be actually defiant and exhibit anti-social behavior.
http://news.utexas.edu/2016/04/25/risks-of-harm-from-spanking-confirmed-by-researchers
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)--CLIP
But since her arrest, she's received an outpouring of support.
This week, Louisiana State Treasurer John Kennedy said Spears should not have been arrested for disciplining her children with corporal punishment.
Louisiana Attorney General Jeff Landry said Friday that he's grateful his mother used a rod to teach right from wrong. The attorney general is reviewing the case.
MORE...
http://www.startribune.com/louisiana-officials-praise-mother-arrested-for-whipping-sons/384324351/
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)How does teaching kids that violence is OK teaching them right from wrong?
ecstatic
(32,677 posts)Maybe he should be arrested too!
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)any more observations to make?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Not because of the presence or absence of spanking.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I disagree with your statement.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)to be a father that isn't there that does it. Corporal punishment certainly isn't going to help the situation.
840high
(17,196 posts)she's a good Mom.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)What kinda fucked up world do you exist in?
840high
(17,196 posts)not want the kids to end up in prison like their Dad did. You don't like my take - bug-off.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)prison.
There is absolutely no evidence that spankings lead to better disciplinary outcomes than non-violent methods, and a lot of evidence that it leads to behavioral and emotional problems that can manifest in criminality.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)Children benefit from a (good) father figure. Sadly thier dad seems to be the opposite as he is in prison. The mother alone can't handle that many kids no matter if she beat thier asses or not.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)because his mother left his abusive father and moved in with another woman. He was better off with two good moms than one awful dad.
Growing up lower class means you know all sorts of families and family types.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Obviously a shitty father is equivalent to having no father at all, but I'm sure most kids and households benefit from having both the mother and father in the same house raising them.
treestar
(82,383 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Two parent households are, generally, higher income, more stable, and the parents in question are more likely to be involved in their children's academic and extracurricular activities.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So the very thing some people seem to think will prevent criminality has the opposite effect. Children growing up without two custodial parents is often beyond the control of single parents. Abusing or not abusing children is very much within the control of all parents.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)In fact, people would have been blaming some random "angry black man" who came in and hit her kids.
Sheesh. I should have known she was a POC from how she was treated.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)did they do wrong? Yes, but no one, not even a parent, has the right to beat them.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Or see this as "beating" her children.
We aren't going to agree, so I'm done.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)my parents were big believers in physical punishment. My dad one time made my younger brother and I go to the woods and pick our own switch, which he would then use to spank us... we spent hours in the woods trying to figure out which type of branch would hurt less... thin and green, or larger and not as bendy.... ha. we switched each other so many times "experimenting" that the actual parental switching wasn't really that bad....
I didn't spank my kids.....
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I mean, when I was little, I got swatted a few times(no weapons used), but that stopped well before I was 10, sister wasn't really disciplined like that at all. In fact, I remember my Mom throwing a fit at my elementary school because they still practiced corporal punishment and thought to punish me for defending myself from a school bully. They used a big paddle, it hurt.
After that, my parents never laid a hand on me or my sister. Ground us, take away TV and video game privileges, sure, but what you describe, Jesus, that's just fucked up.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)but it was a different time, and I am probably a better person because of it. (at least I hope there was some benefit)
I did not spank my kids. a swat to the hand for playing with electric outlets (oldest was freakin obsessed with them!) but never anything like I was raised. My kids have heard all the stories.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)lucky for me...they could have made me a conservative!
hahah. JK.
interesting article tho
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)if the evidence for that doesn't exist, and in fact, as it appears, it actually causes problems with people who grow up being spanked, then we should focus on ways to reduce and eliminate corporal punishment altogether.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)Both of my parents used to tear my little ass up and I'm not aggressive, don't have a short temper, and don't think it was abuse. There's a difference between discipline and abuse. My parents weren't about no damn "time out". They took time out to whoop my ass and I thank them for it cuz I see these little bratty ass kids out here who run all over their parents because they don't have any fear in them. Guess what? Not a bad thing for a kid to have a little fear in them. I didn't get spanked with the belt often, but when I did you better believe I deserved it. This is also tends to be very cultural so I think people need to stay in their own lanes when it comes to disciplining and children. If you didn't get whooped and turned out great well whoopty damn doo. I got whooped and turned out great as well. It works if you do it right. My parents explained to me the consequences if I did x, y, and z. So I knew I had a choice from the beginning and that if I got caught then I was going to get my ass tore up.
kcr
(15,315 posts)got childhoods without beatings. Turning out great with beatings vs turning out great without. I don't know, but that seems like an easy choice to me. I vote no to beating kids.
Also, I'd like to know how one can tell how how all those bratty kids are being raised. That's an impressive skill.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)you should get help.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)... Who turned out pretty darn well. If I was an "abuse" victim then why don't I have lingering hate for what my parents did to me? Why do I not engage in abusive relationships? Again, there is no playbook for how to raise a child. Parents who abuse their children vs properly disciplining them have issues. Furthermore, it wasn't a constant thing. I didn't get whooping often. In my childhood, less than 10 times but it was for things that were very serious. Plenty of kids who didn't get discipline and grew up thinking there were no consequences for their actions don't always turn out well either.
So again, people need to stay in their own lane when it comes to the issue of physical discipline. It worked for me. I'm also a Black/Latino man so my parents understood that the ramifications for my Black ass doing something that most White kids could otherwise get away with was a real thing. They didn't want their child becoming another statistic, and I didn't become one.
LarryNM
(493 posts)totally over the top, regardless of pro and con spanking issues.
More harm done. Typical Elitist attitudes.
TomJulie
(98 posts)My dad was tough. It wasn't a democracy in our home. He was the dictator. I got a belt whupping more than once and sometimes had marks left on my backside. I wasn't a good kid in my younger days. If not for my dad being strict on me there's no telling how I would have turned out. Even with the spankings I had, I wouldn't trade my dad for any dad in the world.
I learned from a early age. There's 2 things I better not do. Lie and talk back to my mother.
My dad owned 1 section of land about 35 miles from our home. EVERY Saturday morning, rain sleet or shine. I went with him to string fence, haul hay, feed and sometimes vaccinate cows and we build a large hay barn. After the day was over and we were back home he threw me the keys to their car and said go have fun.
When I started my 1st job right out of high school, after about a month, my boss called me in to his office and asked me, did you work when you were growing up? I said yes and what I do here is easy compared to what I did while I was in school. He said, I can tell. After that conversation my boss really seemed to like me.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Wow, just fucking, wow, so many abuse victims not even recognizing what they went through, I hope that you don't treat your children like you were treated. This is the cycle of violence that people talk about.
Number23
(24,544 posts)that they "get help" as far, FAR worse than any of the stories from those saying they got spanked as kids.
You've posted in this thread more than the OP and every post is patronizing, self-righteous and incredibly unnecessary. If you think that you are a suitable ambassador for the No Spanking sect, you TRULY could not be more wrong.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I mean, one person describing their mother dislocating her own shoulder to beat his brother, another saying they would take a horsewhip to their own child. And they defend these actions, there is something deeply wrong with that.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But the patronizing, self-righteousness needs to stop. Your never ending attempts to pat yourself on the back for acknowledging how "brutal" spanking is just seems bizarre.
840high
(17,196 posts)TomJulie
(98 posts)Dad, mom, my sister & I were traveling through Arizona during a summer vacation. I was around 14 at that time. We didn't have anything in our car to drink but I told dad I was thirsty. OK, son. My dad slowed down and pulled off on the side of the road, then stopped. He said, OK son, go get a drink. Go get a drink? Where can I get a drink? There's nothing out here. Son, then what do you want me to do? I don't know, dad. He said, I guess you'll have to wait till we can find a place that has something to drink. I didn't complain about being thirsty anymore.
I still laugh every time I think about that.
DustyJoe
(849 posts)The mother punished them finding out they committed burglary and theft.
These aren't toddlers, but preteen and teenaged.
How would the mother fare on this board of 'don't punish the kids' if they had of been shot by the homeowner, or even worse had police been called and showed up with full swat, had a standoff and a few of her boys killed ? She would be called a bad mother, worthless disciplinarian etc.
The woman has her hands full with 6 kids and having half of her family putting themselves and homeowners in harms way burglarizing homes. She was probably scared to death for the boys and her punishment was much less than an angry homeowner or cops would deal out.
How many here scared their parents bad enough to get spanked by not coming home on time, getting lost, being found in a dangerous situation ? Parents first respond with hugs and relief their child is unhurt, then comes down the hammer.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The people who would be blaming the mother for not abusing her children would be the same ones claiming such abuse is effective contrary to exhaustive research and authoritative opinions, not the people who are claiming such abuse is counterproductive.
Claiming 'don't abuse your children' = 'don't punish the kids' is just silly. Beating children until they are bruised and bloody not only doesn't improve their behavior, but actually has the exact opposite effect. So there's much more reason to believe the children's bad behavior was caused by years of abuse.
http://news.utexas.edu/2016/04/25/risks-of-harm-from-spanking-confirmed-by-researchers
merrily
(45,251 posts)However, when an adult needs a weapon to hit a child, it's even woprse.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027952859
Anyone who wants to cling to the idea that it's your prerogative to abuse a child you brought into the world should ask himself or herself why its so important to cling to it.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Seems she needs answers vs scorn, few sane people want to openly abuse their children
NOT empowering the parent with practical answers seems to exacerbate that issue no?
Thx in advance