Black Lives Matter -- white supremacy, patriarchy and homophobia causes of Orlando attack. NOT Islam

[philosslayer]

Despite the media’s framing of this as a terrorist attack, we are very clear that this terror is completely homegrown, born from the anti-Black white supremacy, patriarchy and homophobia of the conservative right and of those who would use religious extremism as a weapon to gain power for the few and take power from the rest. Those who seek to profit from our deaths hope we will forget who our real enemy is, and blame Muslim communities instead.

Homegrown terror is the product of a long history of colonialism, including state and vigilante violence. It is the product of white supremacy and capitalism, which deforms the spirit and fuels interpersonal violence. We especially hold space for our Latinx family now, knowing that the vast majority of those murdered were Latinx, and many were specifically Puerto Rican. From the forced migration of thousands of young people from the island of Puerto Rico to Orlando, to the deadly forced migration throughout Latin America and the Caribbean — we know this is not the first time in history our families have been mowed down with malice, and we stand with you.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/in-honor-of-our-dead-queer-trans-muslim-black-we-will-be-free/

Excellent article and very well stated.

[B2G]

1. The gyrations some go through is astounding. nt

[FrodosPet]

18. Reality check

[Angel Martin]

61. without comment

[MariaThinks]

86. Unbelievable story telling.

[Press Virginia]

2. Nothing like inventing your own reality, I guess.

[metroins]

3. This article makes no sense

The guy was unstable, radicalized and self loathing.

Has nothing to do with blm, I cringed when they tried to steal the spotlight at the vigil.

Blm needs a new communications director to learn what is/isn't ok.

[840high]

36. ...!100++++

[SMC22307]

152. #BLM tried to steal the spotlight at the vigil?

That's disgusting. I could see that loudmouth from Seattle pulling a stunt like that.

[Yukari Yakumo]

173. BLM just needs to be scuttled

It's gone off the rails like OWS. Its relevance is well past its expiration date.

[cali]

4. It's not either/or. It almost never is.

But denying that his take on Islam was part of his motivation, is being so entirely out of touch that its difficult to know what to say to anyone that removed from reality.

As far as being "excellent and very well stated", having read the whole piece, all I can say is that it's lackluster from that point of view.

[Else You Are Mad]

5. Honestly.

I believe Orlando happened because of a self loathing homosexual that had untreated mental illness. I think that blaming this one on white supremacy is incorrect. That is, using your logic, any murder of anyone displaced as a result of colonialism -- from a mass killing to the black store clerk that was shot during a robbery -- could be labeled as such. That is very anachronistic and flawed thinking. Sadly, there are race based murders, but not every murder of a POC is race based.

Don't get me wrong, there are racist based murders that result from white supremacy, the Orlando shooting is not one of them. Further, I agree that conservatism wants to blame the Muslims rather than blame to true cause of the tragedy.

[loyalsister]

25. What is race based and bigotted

is pretending that adding ableism and homophobia is a good way to mask the racial element of that shooting. It's justifying one form of inequality by exploiting others.

[Else You Are Mad]

35. No.

There was no racial element to the shooting. Unless, picking the evening that had most popular event is racial? And, I do not get why you would bring up ableism... That seems a tad absurd.

This was a tragedy committed by a self loathing homosexual With untreated mental illness. To apply any other rationalesl behind the tragedy is just disgusting promotion of BS -- be it fox news this is an ISIS terrorist or be it a racial attack.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. You have zero proof of what you speak with great certainty. You heap all the blame on a sexuality

you have decided was his in order to protect the anti gay religion he followed, said he followed and credited for his actions. Get real.

[Else You Are Mad]

40. I can't really follow your post...

But, read up on the killer -- especially what his ex-wife said (See, e.g. the interview she had with don lemon) and those in the Orlando community that knew him. He did what he did because he was self loathing. He was ashamed of who he was and used the ISIS as a way to pretend he wasn't doing this because he hated himself.

But, feel free to shoehorn this tragedy to however it would benefit your world view.

[Marr]

62. Why did he hate himself? His religion. /nt

[whathehell]

128. Not necessarily...Homophobia could be cultural and then just codified into the religion.

Its sometimes .hard to know if the religion shaped the culture or the other way around...Russia is largely atheistic and yet homophobic.

[AlbertCat]

175. Homophobia could be cultural ....

..... because it comes from that culture's religion.

[whathehell]

184. Or the religion of its culture..

Like I said, it's a chicken or egg question.

[AlbertCat]

189. it's a chicken or egg question

No.

It doesn't matter which came first if the religion actually supports and encourages homophobia.

[whathehell]

192. Lol..

Yes.

What "matters".was not under discussion, your agenda not withstanding.

[AlbertCat]

176. Russia is largely atheistic

Really?

We know the Commies rejected religion, but...y'know... the Russian Orthodox church is still around.

Besides, being "atheistic" does not mean any homophobia in the culture was planted there from religion(s) in the past.

[whathehell]

182. Um, yeah, really.

Yes I know the Orthodox Churc is stil around, but after generations of official atheism, it's I'd guess it's influence on the culture is minor.

On your last paragraph you seem to be agreeing with me, so I guess I'll just move right along.

[AlbertCat]

188. On your last paragraph you seem to be agreeing with me

No I don't

I'm saying IF it were mostly atheistic (which I doubt), that wouldn't mean the homophobia did;t originate with religion.

[whathehell]

193. You might want to 're-read my last post

Last edited Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:15 AM - Edit history (1)

as I never same d that wasn't a possibility. Have a nice day.

[loyalsister]

46. Scapegoating mental illness and ignoring outwardly targeted homophobia is self serving

Ignoring the people who hold extreme homophobic views are also racists whho want to protect "the American way" may bring you comfort but demonizing people based on your own biases and ignorance is harmful.

"Radical beliefs have been around since the beginning of mankind," Rahman said. "What has changed is how people radicalize. If you can make friends online, then you can radicalize online. As a society, we need to confront how these beliefs are amplified."

Rahman said 80 percent of mass shootings are not caused by mental illness, and he believes mistaking extreme overvalued belief for psychosis results in taking a misguided approach to preventing them. He said the federal government should change strategies and set a goal to reduce mass shootings.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/new-mu-research-suggests-mass-shooters-aren-t-necessarily-mentally/article_1bc0893a-2125-11e6-ab8b-23cb621732a6.html?

[Else You Are Mad]

47. So, in that case, we are in agreement.

[Buddyblazon]

102. Well...

The one thing all of these shootings have in common are mental illness/instability....and they were all men.

Help with emotional and mental issues is already difficult enough and access is very subpar in this country.

There's also a stigma surrounding men and mental/emotional issues in this country that is never looked at. But having recently gone through a devestating life issue myself...and seeing how our society reacts towards men when they openly look for help...these shootings don't seem all that surprising.

Basically I agree with you and then some.

Either side using this for political expediency is disgusting i.e. "It was Muslims""it was the guns".

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Absolute horseloaf. nt

[uppityperson]

7. Good article, thank you.

[Prism]

8. This shit dishonors the dead

When one's precious worldview is more important that the truth of the dead, I just have no respect for that person.

The regressive Left continues this dangerous nonsense. "A community has been devastated. How can I fit this into what I already believe?"

That's not the sign of a considerate thinker. It's the sign of regressivism.

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. "born from the anti-Black white supremacy"

That's where my orbitals became useful.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. +1

"A community has been devastated. How can I fit this into what I already believe?"

Bingo!

I am not impressed in the slightest by the article. It doesn't seem to be one of support in the least.

[Prism]

12. Usually one buries the dead

This author decided to fashion a ladder out of the them.

It's offensive as hell.

I was just at a fundraiser for the victims last night where people spoke, and the sentiments expressed were the strength of our community, our compassion, our commitment, and how to best honor those killed and injured and help their families. The take away is that we are stronger than this and cannot be dimmed. It was an entirely appropriate, deeply felt, deeply unifying sentiment.

Unlike, you know, articles like this.

[Ace Rothstein]

24. PC before people.

[King_David]

68. I consider it throwing Gays under the bus. nt

[Aerows]

121. Driving over us afterwards

then backing up and driving over us again in the wake of this tragedy.

[King_David]

123. And even when you tell them , they continue. nt

[MrScorpio]

11. Beautiful article

Thank you for posting this.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Horrifically abusive anti gay load of horsehit.

Vapid and hate oriented, pro religion and anti human.

[MrScorpio]

52. Well, apparently opinions differ.

It is what it is.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. I'm gay, you are straight. You dig this horrificaly bigoted bullshit and I'm not in the least

surprised by that. Not in the least. Might have been a year ago, not now.

[MrScorpio]

67. I'm also a person of color, as were most of the victims of that massacre

I find it interesting that, out of all the gay venues in Florida that Mateen could have chosen to attack, he picked one that was patronized by mostly black and brown people, on "Latin Night" of all nights.

Just because Mateen was Pakistani, that doesn't mean that he was immune to harboring the very same pro-white supremacist/anti-black and brown bias that just about every single person in this country has been immersed in. I understand that, in America, even being a person of color oneself does not make it mutually exclusive from harboring such biases.

The thing about being black and brown in America, we never have the luxury of disregarding the relevance of our own skin as it pertains to any situation we find ourselves in. We know what it means to be black and brown in this country, regardless of how much the beneficiaries of the white supremacist power structure go out of their way to inform us that it really doesn't matter.

Of course, Mateen attacked a gay club because he wanted to kill gay people. That's not being questioned here. But he chose to murder gay people of color... And much of white America turned its back on those gay and mostly POC victims to castigate and fear monger an entire religion.

[cali]

76. So much factually wrong in your post. First of all, Mateen was not Pakistani

He was an U.S. born citizen of Aghani heritage. He was a "brown" person.

And Pulse, as I understand it, was patronized by people of all different ethnic backgrounds.

In any case, to discount the environment he grew up in it and his own words, is so disrespectful to the victims. As in nearly all things, it's not nearly as simple as you want it to be.

You seem very indifferent to LGBT folks and their struggles. That's not new. You always have.

[MrScorpio]

80. You're right about his heritage, mea culpa

But he did murder mostly LGBT people of color.

[Raster]

107. If I may, I believe the "murdering mostly LGBT people of color" was not the intent...

...murdering LGBT people WAS THE INTENT.

In my opinion, this was a HATE CRIME directed at the LGBT community. The fact that it was Latin Night and the Gay bar was primarily occupied by PoC was coincidental. The goal was to murder LGBT persons. Period.

[MrScorpio]

141. Rather than looking at murder of black and brown LGBT as a coincidence

I see it as an inconvenient fact of having to live in a country dominated by a white supremacist, heteronormative, capitalistic patriarchal power structure... The very thing that breeds violence, systematic and otherwise, against people of color, women, the poor and the LGBT community.

These elements of power and privilege are all interconnected and you really can't fight one without fighting the others.

[Prism]

92. He also spared some black victims

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641598/Surviving-friend-teen-murdered-Orlando-massacre-sobs-guilt-recounts-shooter-asked-black-people-bathroom-stall-hiding-spare-having-suffered-enough.html

Carter says Mateen did eventually return to their stall and that they feared he was going to shoot them again.

But this time he called out and asked if there were any black people hiding behind the doors.

Carter was too afraid to respond, but another black person did, giving an affirmative.

Surprisingly, that caused Mateen to put away his weapon.

'I don't have a problem with black people,' Mateen reportedly said. 'This is about my country. You guys suffered enough.'

The notion that he 'didn't have a problem with blacks' is, however, contradicted by the fact that he had already shot a number of them that night and statements from ex-colleagues who said he was openly racist and continually making derogatory remarks about blacks and hispanics.

His hatred, as you said above, is a very complicated thing. But anyone who exhibits that sentiment while delivering mass death is clearly not coming from a space influenced by white supremacy.

But a narrative must be had on the backs of the LGBT community, and some people will have it.

Yeah, you noticed the indifference, too. It's been going on ten years there.

[whathehell]

130. He was a "Brown" person?

I've seen Greeks and Italians with darker complexions.and yet they are not labeled as such.

For what it's worth, most people from the Middle East are considered Caucasian.

[cali]

131. I know and agree. I'm simply following- or trying to- the op's logic.

[whathehell]

135. Got it. n/t

[uponit7771]

154. +1, and that fear mongering has been normalized to the point some "progressives" become bigoted

[Prism]

157. Oh, there are bigots all right

Have no doubt whatsoever.

[King_David]

70. +1

[King_David]

69. +1

[snooper2]

13. whatever supports your preconceived notions...

[FLPanhandle]

14. Wow. What a load of BS

But I guess it helps them keep their worldview in place by twisting away uncomfortable facts.

[msongs]

15. yes we all know how islam embraces, welcomes, honors and celebrates lgbt people nt

[XemaSab]

16. When everything is white violence against people of color

then nothing is white violence against people of color.

[uponit7771]

153. Except when white violence is tolerated and minimized by society as a whole. Very few folk call

... the Charleston shooter a Christianist terrorist even though its been reported many times he was a devout Christian and said devout Christians have been murdering folk in the name of god for generations.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Kind of like how WWII was really about the FDA mandating childhood vaccinations

...

[pintobean]

19. That's really quite sickening.

[Matrosov]

20. Is the author from an alternate universe?

I've read the article several times and it makes no sense. It sounds like it was written by someone who wanted to use Orlando to draw attention to Black Lives Matter but couldn't put the two together in a coherent manner. It does a great disservice to both BLM and the victims of Orlando.

[AlbertCat]

178. wanted to use Orlando to draw attention to Black Lives Matter

THIS^^^


and this:


but couldn't put the two together in a coherent manner.

[melman]

21. What a bunch of horse shit

Ugly. Just ugly.

[DesMoinesDem]

22. This is a great way for BLM to lose support from most people including me.

Are you Muslim philosslayer? Every post I see you make is to defend Islam from any blame and to place the blame on things that obviously had nothing to do with the attack like Trump, patriarchy, and white supremacy. You obviously are very invested in this. Why is that?

[RobertEarl]

23. Very well stated

I do notice the denial from other posters.

Our society is founded on white supremacy. Denial of that does no one any good, especially the white supremacist.

Had the Orlando victims all been white supremacists we would have proper gun laws yesterday.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. I believe you are misguided.

Boy, you ought to see what I wrote first, but edited.

[MrScorpio]

29. White supremacy is the mortar that has always bound the masonry of America together

It's pretty common to see how black and brown lives matter less.

It's the double-standard that's always there.

[cali]

71. what does that even mean? What is the "masonry" of America, for example?

black lives matter less
LGBT lives matter less
the lives of those with severe and persistent mental illness matter less
and on and on.

It's not a competition, but you always make it into one.

[MrScorpio]

77. This isn't a completion, of course.

And the infrastructure of power and privilege is complex and multi-varied.

Considering that, not only were the victims LGBT, but they were also people of color, it shouldn't be too hard to see this as more than one kind of hate based bias at work in the mind of a disturbed individual.

[cali]

79. thanks for the non-answer.

[MrScorpio]

82. What I meant about "masonry" is that white supremacy built this country

It's the foundation on which America has always stood.

That should have been pretty obvious.

[malaise]

103. It's that simple

and it's not simply local - it's international hence we can invade, loot, plunder and kill and then claim that it's in the name of Freedom.

[Aerows]

125. It's very far from being that simple. n/t

[philosslayer]

30. Thank you!

Feels a little lonely sometimes putting up posts like this and seeing the vitriol that comes back. Fortunately, SOME (present company included) can see the root cause.

[RobertEarl]

33. OP hit whites hard

Hitting the powerful causes bad reactions every time.

Much less reaction hitting the weak, which is what the shooter did.

I like to see the powerful react and the only way to do that is make them react. OP did good.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. The OP protects Straights and their Ritualized bigotries they call 'religion' at the expense of the

LGBT community. You are straight, all the folks cheering this bullshit are also straight. Privilege runs your engines.

[Else You Are Mad]

50. Uhhh

Yes, there are straight people on the right that are cheering this, but not all straight people are cheering this. Please realize there is that distinction.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. This OP is cheering for anti gay semitments as are many on this thread, straights in denial

because they too are religious and straight. Self serving exploitative bullshit. Realize the distinction, straights dig this and LGBT are offended by it.

[Else You Are Mad]

58. You are wrong.

Straights do NOT dig this, I just ask my brother and his husband and they both agree that statement is absurd.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. The OP is celebrating this anti gay view, do you undestand what you are reading here?

Just cut it out. This bullying is not cool.

[Else You Are Mad]

63. Disagreement is not bullying.

I proffered another point of view, that is discussion not bullying. I appreciate your point of view, I just disagree with it. But, please, don't label such as bullying.

[King_David]

78. They happy to throw Gays under the bus

To protect a bigoted gay hating religion from being tarnished.

[loyalsister]

32. Good point

The culturally embedded white supremacy allows these crimes. The belief that only criminals or unsavory people (both stereotypes as black or brown) get shot is exactly what comforts white people into prioritizing their right to kill over other people's lives or just not caring enough to even accept that it is unjust.

[RobertEarl]

34. The culture almost demands it

The oppression must continue if the present culture is to keep its power.

[loyalsister]

108. Yep

It is essential to the existing power structure's survival to maintain a system of white racial dominance in order to continue to exploit white anxiety for political purposes.
The RW is the most obvious and vociferous offender, but ordinary citizens of all stripes and political leanings enable it.

[Aerows]

124. Do enlighten those of us in the LGBT community

That have been harassed in the street, beaten on the street and killed for being ourselves just how privileged we are.

I do not know a single LGBT individual, including myself, that doesn't know one of the above.

Then smear, in our faces in the wake of this tragedy, where people were executed for being in the LGBT community and tell us it is because of privilege.

The restraint I am using to prevent myself from getting banned is phenomenal.

[TipTok]

161. This literally has nothing to do with the subject at hand...

Folks trying to cram their white patriarchy square pegs into round anti-lgbt islamic holes are spotlight rangers of the first order.

Cheap and tawdry...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

48. Yeah, I forgot, Newtown Elementary was an all minority school in the inner city.

Great point, Robert Earl.

[truebrit71]

73. Right? What utter horseshit...

[uponit7771]

145. Charleston terrorist attack was a white supremacist and a devout Christian but few if any on

.. DU especially claimed his religion had anything to do with killing a bunch of black folk.

The double standard is gob smacking

The shooter was conservative, killing the "others" is OK with them even if they're small chidlren.

True: if this was 49 KKK members we'd have 50 gun laws RIGHT NOW

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

146. "True: if this was 49 KKK members we'd have 50 gun laws RIGHT NOW"

The fact you actually believe that shows how completely out of touch with reality you are.

[uponit7771]

149. Out of touch with this countries tolerance for white supremacy? REALLY?! Not after being stopped 23

... times in less than a year by cops who didn't think I lived in certain areas or was a football player in a "nice car" who they had to fuck with by surrounding mine with 15 of theirs for ... not a damn thing,.. go along... you and your crying family and wife can have a nice night...

Nah...

What's out of touch is people who care not to see what their privilege brings them or takes from others

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

156. If a KKK rally had been shot up, no one would give a fuck!!!!

Let's be honest, America, (ya, even "whitey&quot would have a hard time not saying openly "Good, they deserved it" even if that's not considered in "politically correct good taste"!!!

No politician in their right mind would turn on the NRA in favor of the KKK. The fact you believe that shows you are lost. Truly, deeply, lost.....

If you seriously think otherwise, I repeat what I said. Out of touch with reality.

Otherwise, you are a straight up troll.

But I have no use for someone who cries crocodile tears WHILE DENYING ISLAM OR ANY RELIGION'S HOMOPHOBIA!!!!! FRAUD!!!

YOU DEFEND THE STATUS QUO OF RELIGION AND HAVE THE NERVE TO INVOKE THE WORLD!!! DOES THAT WORLD INCLUDE THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE LEGALIZED MURDERING GAY MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE RAPED OR SUPPOSEDLY COMMIT ADULTERY??? FRAUD!!!!! YOU ARE A FRAUD!!!! WHEN DO YOU CONDEMN THEM???? YOU DON'T???? FRAUD!!!!

Have a good day, and a nice life.

[uponit7771]

158. This statement isn't even close to reality relative to the protection white males have gotten from

... the media in regards to the terrorism handed to society since 911 sans Pulse.

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

and damn near all of them will swear their Christians or leaning.

Christianity is rarely or ever put under the microscope Islam has by some "progressives" relating to its willingness to kill gays en mass.

Singling out Islam due to some assholes perversion of it makes even less sense

Do this, ask the AA group if they think if it was a building full of KKK members who got shot up by a black person claiming Chrisitanity what kind of review the act would've gotten...

Lets keep it real no?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

160. Religion sucks across the board

You're talking to the wrong guy if you expect me to defend Christianity and it's homophobia. Religion is a disease, and I don;t protect or defend it like you do when it suits you.

The KKK is a fringe group mocked by almost everyone but about 2% in America. If you had said a bunch of Republican senators getting shot at a fundraiser might have changed gun laws you'd have a point. But no, you think the KKK is representative of white America? All us whiteys would be outraged and demand laws be changed? That is FUCKED you think that!

Keep it real indeed, you are lost.

[uponit7771]

162. Great, then why the singling out of Islam !?!? And strawman noted, no one said KKK respresents

... white America.

I stand by the claim that a mass murder of a societal white male fringe group in America .... and yes, including the KKK.... would've garnered a whole different reaction if it was done by a PoC in the name of perversion of Christianity than if it was a societal PoC fringe group shot up by someone claiming perversions of Islam... when it comes to guns.


What's lost ... no really, what's lost is the denial of the normalizing of tolerance for white male Christian terrorism.


I could not stand by this position without some facts and history being on my side (link in earlier post)

[Albertoo]

164. Why the singling out of Islam? Because it is the religion that mandates punishing gays

In a "Muslim" country, the penalty for being gay ranges from prison to death.

Not the case in countries where Christianity is the state religion (England, Greece, Denmark)

In the US, Rabbi David Wolpe marries gays. Does any mainstream imam do that?

[uponit7771]

166. Link and quote? tia

[Albertoo]

171. What is your real question?

You probably know as well as I do that the Islamic texts call for the death of gays, as does the Old Testament.

The difference I pointed out by the example of countries where religions are officially recognized as state religion is that when it's Islam, gays are punished up to the death penalty.

Not so when the state religion is Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism, or when ther's none.

This explains why Islam gets singled out about homophobia (or sexism, or freedom of speech)

[Prism]

167. Here's why we single out Islam

The murderer was raised in Islam, had a nutty Islamic father, was interested enough in Islamic radicalism that Muslims from his own mosque/ reported him to the freakin' FBI.

But, no, somehow white supremacist folk are the real villain here.

As an exercise. For ten seconds. Pretend you're an LGBTer and see the world through our eyes. You ask that for yourself. I ask it of you. You have, from literally the day after, been running around trying to make this about everyone except LGBT people.

Do we not count in your world? What's going on with you?

[uponit7771]

168. ... and Christianity doesn't?!

[Prism]

169. Was the shooter Christian?

I've mistaken you. I thought you were serious.

Seriously, my apologies.

Continue telling LGBT people they never see what they see, as is ever your angle. I will certainly never read anything into this ever.

[uponit7771]

170. Answer my question first. tia

[Prism]

172. Your question is a nonsequitur by design

You want to say, "White Christians suck!"

What, you want me to object? They do. In many varied ways.

But, you're not defending them. You are, however, obfuscating for the shitty aspects of Islam. You're trying to cloud for them in a way you never would for the American Christian Right. You can recognize how the American right-wing is crap for you, but you can't recognize how Islam is bad for LGBTers. Which is my point. It doesn't matter to you. It doesn't affect you. You don't care.

I care about you. Why don't you care about me?

[King_David]

74. The victims were mainly LGBTQ

I don't think so .

[RobertEarl]

140. Yes they were LGBT

It wasn't a police station, or a military place, or even a place with big strong white supremacists, was it? That's who bombed the shooter's country, LBGT didn't, yet they were the target.

[Aerows]

126. Oh, there IS some denial going on. I'll give you that. n/t

[uponit7771]

142. ++++++++++++++DING DING DING !! Thread winnah+++++++++++++++++++++

Good point, if a Christian went and killed a bunch of KKK members we'd have smart guns right now

[Ace Rothstein]

26. Not sure if serious or just joking.

[Abq_Sarah]

31. I'd suggest this is delusional

But I'm afraid it goes far beyond that.

[guillaumeb]

39. Recommended. On target.

But judging by some of the responses the article was too much on target. Uncomfortable truth about the real US.

[melman]

41. A reminder

[img][/mgi]

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. Well, that's all been "redacted"

Therefore, guys like philo can claim it "doesn't count".

[friendly_iconoclast]

65. +1 There are none so ignorant as those who refuse to see what's directly in front of their face

[Marr]

177. Oh, I think they see. They just don't really give a shit.

This is just one more spotlight to jump in front of. BLM has become a sad little club for ignorant narcissists, not a whole lot different than Fred Phelps' congregation.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. I'm sick of the towers of anti gay bullshit being contructed on DU. The LGBT community are the

victims here, there was a mass murder targeting LGBT. This attacking of the LGBT community has to cease. It's unethical and disgusting.

I am reminded of some early cultures who would first kill their enemies then construct a suit of their flayed flesh to wear as their own. A co-opting and consumption of the entire being of their victims.

[King_David]

81. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

94. Exactly!!

Some said above if all the victims had been white supremacists we'd have gun laws yesterday. well, had the victims been all or primarily white GLBT, I doubt we'd ever heard anything from BLM. There would be no "solidarity" with the "queer" community. What really pisses me off, is we saw something quite similar with the Charleston massacre at the African-American church. Very few people here tried to make it about "Christians", most understood the victims were targeted because they were BLACK, not CHRISTIAN. However, the right made it out to be an anti-Christian hate crime and the victims just happened to all be African-American. There are conflicting reports about Mateen and his feelings about other ethnic minorities. There is even a report from a victim saying he let African-Americans go "because they have suffered enough." Does this mean he couldn't have also been a racist? Of course not, but what is clear is he attacked GAY PEOPLE! While he was scoping out Disney, what was on track, what was upcoming in their attractions...OH THAT'S RIGHT....GAY DAYS!

Frankly, I know exactly why some people "care" about the Pulse massacre, and it ain't because the victims were GAY!

[Prism]

97. Just imagine if this was reversed

Could you imagine the reaction?

We're always a nice target, and if we speak up, don't worry, we're horrible people for it.

Same damn thing happened with Prop 8 and the DOMA defenses. Our community is never ever right, underserving of dignity, and never allowed to take possession of our own truths.

Then straight people swoop in to tell us we do not hear with crystal clarity exactly what is being said.

Worse than that is the notable crickets in all this. We're not worth defending. Some of us won't even defend ourselves. Not when a precious ideology is in play.

[Behind the Aegis]

99. The most interesting part is how we are being accused of being racists.

We are showing off our "white privilege" when the actual privilege in play is heterosexual privilege (heterosexism)!

IT'S JUST ONE PRAYER!

[Prism]

100. It's been that way as long as I've been politically active

At least the sentiment was dormant on DU for a little while there. A nice reprieve.

But, alas, now we're back to how people really feel.

If you ever wade through the regressive Left on places like Twitter and Tumblr, you'll find white gay males (and lesbians to a much lesser extent) are popular objects of scorn and hatred.

So, none of this surprises me.

[Behind the Aegis]

101. I am not surprised either.

I just love how we, GLBT, are being excluded from having an opinion, but someone's gay brother/sister/father/mother/friend is suddenly an expert and said "blah!"; not that we'd actually know since they aren't here to tell us. It just goes to show that heterosexism is one privilege many refuse to discuss, much less acknowledge and I have a good reason as to why that is. As for finding a "gay" person to agree with any point someone has to make contrary to what we are saying; well, we only need to look to the experts of "Fair and Balanced" to see one can get any minority, even a gay one, to agree with something which is bigoted...

Fox says 'Gay journalists are too biased'

The person they interview, Guy Benson, who is gay (and only watches Fox news), but hey, if that gay person says it, well, then it must be truth!

[Prism]

51. A gender neutral descriptor

Since Spanish has gendered nouns, sometimes you'll see LatinX instead of Latino or Latina in order to be inclusive. It first started cropping up in trans circles and those who do not gender identify, but it isn't too unusual to see it in LGBT commentary nowadays.

[DustyJoe]

53. cornfusing at times

Posters with anti-muslim views are railed at as racists because muslims on the whole are lumped in as 'people of color', not white.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. Gender neutral pronoun

Apparently it was not included in the original essay, leading to a commenter GETTING VERY ANGRY WONDERING IF BLM ARE JUST BEING HATERS!!!!!

Good lord, imagine going through life like that? Ultimately they will all be hoisted by their own petard.

[iandhr]

49. The guy pledged allegiance to an Islamic terror group.

The fact the people try to deny that is beyond me.

[uponit7771]

150. ...then pledged allegience to the antithesis of that same group. The fact that people ignore that

... piece of over reported information is beyond me too.

[Aerows]

165. "Pledged allegiance to the antithesis of that same group"

What are you talking about? Are you saying that al-Baghdadi isn't an Islamic terrorist, because that is who he pledged his allegiance to in the phone call.

[Marr]

54. BLM is becoming a joke.

Things like this are the reason why.

[MosheFeingold]

60. Concur

And now we have to listen to Republicans paint all liberals as idiots because of this idiot.

The cult of ISIS caused this. They recruited a violent loser. He killed as they desired. Not a mystery.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. Mateen did this because (redacted) and he got the idea from (redacted).

Truth is a great thing. Lies are a toxin.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

113. LOL

Good one!

[ismnotwasm]

66. I think the disconnect here is this is reads like the conclusion of a philosophy piece

I get why people are offended by it, it lacks background .

Philosophy pieces regarding the effects of colonialism and white supremacy are great reading. I don't think it was the authors intent to minimize the fact that it was GBLTs--many of color-- who were murdered so horrifically, I don't think it was the authors intent to minimize Islam's bigoted stance on Gay people and Gay rights.

It is attempting in my opinion, to point out how dangerous white supremacy is, when looked at from a birds eye view, white rule and colonialism all over the world helped create much of the horrors we see today. It's difficult to discuss, because it's so complex--it has gone on for centuries.

[mwrguy]

115. Thank you.

[MrScorpio]

183. It was quite obvious to me as it was written, it's laid out as you've pointed out for all to see

But then, I've been discussing how interconnected systems of privilege and power oppress people such as POCs, LGTBs, women and even the disabled.

I'm quite sure that those who haven't taken the time to expand their frames of reference would have the hardest times comprehending that blog post.

[romanic]

72. BLM hasn't been in the news for a long while...

so I guess this was a way to wedge themselves into this tragedy somehow.

But being serious, I doubt Omar was a white supremacist ala Dylan Roof or a by-product of colonialism done long ago. This is just an attempt for them to get their warped views into the news for relevance and air-time. Some who want to blame "The Man" and capitalism will eat it up like gospel but my gay biracial self can see through their act, they're no different than any other group trying to wedge their opinions into the Orlando tragedy. Absolutely classless, all of them.

[oberliner]

75. White supremacy is the cause of the Orlando attack?

This is truly ridiculous.

[jmg257]

83. Don't ya know? Its "Anti-blackness" that caused it, that causes everything...

"anti-Blackness no longer fuels anti-Muslim and anti-queer and trans bigotry, exploitation, and exclusion"

[oberliner]

84. It almost reads like a parody of itself

It's hard to believe that there are people who believe this to be an accurate reflection of reality.

[TipTok]

163. This is the culture of perpetual victimhood...

... that is more damaging than racism or patriarchy or anything that imposed from the outside.

[Oneironaut]

85. Lol. This is ridiculous. Islam truly is the left's sacred cow.

The shooter openly admitted that he was a soldier of Islam. People won't even believe the words that came out of the shooter's mouth because it doesn't fit their narrative. They just ignore what is so obvious here. Islam must be protected at all cost, like a bird with a battered wing. It's ridiculous.

[MrScorpio]

87. American Muslims Send A Powerful Message Of Solidarity To Orlando Victims

The American Muslim community reacted with an outpouring of love and support in the wake of the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

The support came in the form of fundraisers, blood donations, and public statements that firmly condemned the violence that claimed the lives of 49 victims at Orlando’s Pulse nightclub early Sunday morning, and left dozens more injured.

At the same time, the violence sparked a debate within the community about whether Muslim leaders need to speak out more forcefully against homophobic ideologies.

The gunman, identified as 29-year-old Omar Mateen, reportedly called police about 20 minutes into the shooting and pledged his allegiance to ISIS. His father, Seddique Mateen, has claimed that his son became upset after seeing two gay men kissing in Miami a few months ago. Pulse was a haven for Orlando’s LGBTQ community.

Muslim organizations and activists across the country have spoken out against the shooting, explicitly calling it a hate crime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/american-muslims-send-a-powerful-message-of-solidarity-to-orlando-victims_us_575ef3d4e4b071ec19ee9fbe?

[B2G]

89. Which has jack squat to do with the OP. nt

[Oneironaut]

90. Great, but Islam at its core is a backwards, bigoted religion.

It's a religion that overwhelmingly victimizes its own followers. It also breeds hate and misery wherever it's prevalent, just like most religions. The people in that picture are moderate followers who reject the backwards parts of their religion.

[MrScorpio]

91. You might not know this, but most Muslims in this country vote Democratic

And American Muslims are also engaged in anti-discrimination and civil rights

Read the outrageous story of a Muslim girl facing police violence for the first time.

A follower dmed her story to @themuslimfeminists

“Fresno Police Department arrested me at a protest/rally while holding this sign - I wasnt resisting. I was sitting down calmly waiting for them to put the cuffs on me when my arresting officer suddenly slammed me on my face. I am literally 105 lbs. They used so much force that I was left with a fractured wrist, bruises on my face & on the back of my thighs where they kneed me - and they fucked up my knee so bad there were times I couldn’t even stand. They also removed my hijab, mocked my right to religion & a female officer searched my bra(exposing my breasts) in front of male officers. FPD has a history of unlawful behavior, our chief of police has even been accused of sleeping with an underage girl. Please help me bring attention to brutality & corruption going on in my home town’s Police department (Fresno CA) thank you❤”
I’m pissed off. WTF? The violation of the First Amendment and basic human rights is clearly seen here. The girl was beaten and discriminated by the law enforcement FOR NOTHING. As usual, the media and the gov’t keep silent and act as if nothing happened.
Let’s help to boost this to bring attention to this horrible story.

#StopPoliceBrutality

http://fullten.tumblr.com/post/146268322983/hustleinatrap-read-the-outrageous-story-of-a

But instead of painting a religion in one brush, you have to consider that not all Muslims think as you believe they do:

Here Is What LGBT Muslims Want You To Know After The Orlando Shooting
“I wish we didn’t have to be brave just to continue living.”

fter at least 49 people were killed in a shooting at Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, social media erupted with debate about the role homophobia in Islam might or might not have played in the attack. LGBT Muslims found themselves at the epicenter of the conversation.





Jordan Alam, 24, is a queer Bengali American writer and activist living and working in Seattle.
“When I heard about Orlando, I felt gutted. Glued to the news, but reviled by it. Fearing backlash and seeing it immediately online from all sides. A deep desire to hide again; I had cultivated so much safety and love within my communities and now it felt like this had been reversed. I had to work during the day and I had to take a breath to keep from crying as new information kept rolling in. I had to break my fast for this Ramadan today because of emotional strain.
“I am fortunate that my people, online and off, have understood and talked about the complexities of resisting Islamophobia as well as homophobia — but I feel like I’m walking on eggshells. I see what other folks have been experiencing and combating in their social media feeds and in the streets, and I want to be helpful but I have a fear that putting myself forward will make me more of a target of violence.

“We will not be erased in this tragedy. We will not be pitted against ourselves and others — we are both and all things. It’s not ‘queers versus Muslims’ and it has not been historically. I am glad to see a lot of my comrades being brave and showing up in media, but I really deeply wish that it was under different circumstances. I wish we didn’t have to be brave just to continue living.”

https://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/here-is-what-lgbt-muslims-want-you-to-know-after-the-orlando?utm_term=.llbG3yzGJ#.qkqEQgDEv

[philosslayer]

95. Thanks for posting this

Amazing the amount of Islamophobia that is directed at a strong Democratic constituency.

[MrScorpio]

96. I live in Southeast Michigan, which is the home to the largest Muslim-American population in the USA

Frankly, it's quite clear that Muslim-Americans are some of the most diverse and inclusive communities in this country, yet for some reason, they're painted with an unfair amount of Islamophobia.

Just in case some folks aren't aware of this, check this out as well:

Metro Detroit Muslims strongly condemn Orlando shooting
Niraj Warikoo, Detroit Free Press

Muslim advocates in Michigan and across the U.S. strongly condemned the mass shooting early this morning at a nightclub in Orlando, Florida that left 50 dead and dozens injured.

"We are extremely sad and horrified by what happened," said Dr. Mansoor Qureshi, president of the Michigan chapter of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. "We condemn it in the strongest possible words. Whoever did it is beyond crazy, he's a lunatic. ... It's such a tragic loss of life."

"We pray for the victims, we pray for humanity," Qureshi said. "We will continue to do whatever we can to save life, to support the lives of all."

The heavily armed assailant, identified as Omar Mateen, pledged allegiance to the Islamic State before he was killed in a hail of gunfire, authorities said.

"It is tragic to hear anytime a life is taken in such a senseless act of violence," said Mahir Osman, secretary of public affairs for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in metro Detroit. "Such brutality has no place in a civilized society. The Ahmadiyya Muslim community of metro Detroit mourns the loss of our brothers and sisters in humanity and prays for the speedy recovery of the injured."


http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/06/12/area-muslims-strongly-condemn-orlando-shooting/85792084/

[AlbertCat]

180. for some reason, they're painted with an unfair amount of Islamophobia.

for some reason?????

Really?

Do you think these American Muslims are just like Iraqi Muslims or Muslims in Bangladesh?


It is good that these American Muslims get out there and point out their differences. But it's no mystery why they might be painted with a broad brush.

[Oneironaut]

129. Criticizing Islam is not Islamophobic.

I encourage you to read my response to the poster. Islam (a religion) and Muslims (people) are two separate things. Equating any criticism of Islam with bigotry is disingenuous.

[Oneironaut]

127. That's exactly my point - they're moderate Muslims. Most are.

They're less religious. They ignore many of their religious dogma because it's backwards and violent. The same is true of Christianity.

You seem to be equating Muslims with Islam. The two can easily be separated. Islam is violent, misogynist, homophobic, and archaic. So is Christianity. Moderate Muslims and Christians are not those things because they ignore a good chunk of their religion. They refuse to let it poison their minds.

It doesn't matter how many good Muslims or Christians there are. Both religions are evil to the core.

[REP]

134. There kind of is one central Christian theology

And that would be the resurrection of the Christ, Jesus.

Very, very bluntly, the largest divide in tenets is transubstantiation.

Then we go down to works vs faith, etc.

But all Christians ... with the possible exception of UUs (who do not believe in the threefold god, but just one, unlike the other Christian sects) the central organizing article of faith is the resurrection.

I am not quite as sure about Islam, but fairly confident that they all share the foundational belief that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed was his prophet.

[REP]

138. We agree

I was just being my usual pedant self in pointing out that all Christians sects do have the same core belief and that thing is what makes them Christian. Each sect has its own interpretation of scripture, along with rules peculiar to their sect (the Methodist Church, which was founded as a Temperance sect, does not use wine in its sacrament but unfermented grape juice instead, although temperance is no longer part of the doctrine*). Some are conservative as fuck; some are super liberal and many are somewhere in between. I imagine Islam is much the same.

*at one point I was a paid soloist in a Methodist choir; Methodists are highly competitive singers. The rival church was referred to as Gin and Holy Tonic after their famous parties.

[romanic]

109. Most American Muslims aren't radicalized, we know that.

It's just the millions more outside of the U.S. in theocratic countries like SA, Iran, Pakistan, and the like that we should be concerned about.

[MrScorpio]

185. Well frankly, I think that it's ridiculous that some expect US Muslims to answer for overseas ones

http://www.oneutah.org/2010/11/why-does-mohamed-osman-mohamud-hate-america/

Islam is not some monolithic belief system and it's influenced greatly by the cultures in the countries is which it's practiced. In countries which are in and of themselves autocratic, repressive and dictatorial, the more extreme versions of whatever religious beliefs are practiced are promoted. Freer, more democratic societies reflect more moderate belief systems of their various faiths.

Let's not forget that the largest numbers of victims of radicalized Islamic violence are Muslims themselves. In this country, Mateen was clearly an outlier in the greater Muslim-American community, most of which are appalled and sickened by his hateful murder of LGTB people.

[B2G]

88. He also stated he didn't want to kill blacks

But that means nothing to those with an agenda.

A pretty twisted one at that.

[uponit7771]

143. ... and Christianity seems to be the sacred cow of white supremacist. Had there been 49 KKK members

... killed there would no doubt be 50 gun laws right now.

[trotsky]

93. Are there ANY hadiths or verses of the Quran that could be interpreted to condemn homosexuality?

Just curious.

There were many factors in this attack, and religion was clearly one of them.

[LostOne4Ever]

112. I can't help but notice the silence to your post. I wonder why? nt

[Aerows]

118. Well here are a collection of them.

Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:

The crime of homosexuality is one of the greatest of crimes, the worst of sins and the most abhorrent of deeds, and Allaah punished those who did it in a way that He did not punish other nations. It is indicative of violation of the fitrah, total misguidance, weak intellect and lack of religious commitment, and it is a sign of doom and deprivation of the mercy of Allaah. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

Click the link below for chapter and verse.

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

[malaise]

98. Thanks

Rec

[oberliner]

104. #PulseShooting: Gunman Reportedly Didn’t Want to Kill Black People: ‘You Guys Suffered Enough’

Patience Carter, 20, one of the survivors of the mass shooting Sunday morning at Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Fla., said that the shooter, Omar Mateen, 29, wanted to spare black lives from his violent rampage, CBS News reports.

Carter had fled to the bathroom to seek shelter with other club patrons when the gunman entered and reportedly asked, “Are there any black people in here?”

Carter said that she was too terrified to reply, but a black man in a bathroom stall answered, “Yes, there are about six or seven of us.”

Mateen then added, “You know, I don’t have a problem with black people. This is about my country. You guys suffered enough.”

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2016/06/pulse-omar-mateen-black-people/

[Dr. Strange]

105. So he was fighting white supremacy by killing gays.

Well, that's just fucking awesome.

[bravenak]

106. Very interesting find.

[David__77]

110. I'm familar with the basic argument.

"Homegrown terror is the product of a long history of colonialism, including state and vigilante violence. It is the product of white supremacy and capitalism, which deforms the spirit and fuels interpersonal violence."

I understand that some people, including self-described communists, may determine that a system described as imperialism or capitalism is accountable for various social ills occurring in the society. This is a sort of base/superstructure concept, in which the economy (base) is the main determinant factor, impacting the social and economic relations in the society (superstructure).

I used to basically adhere to that framework, and now do not do so.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

114. I'll trust Mateen on this over BLM. He was quite clear about what his reasons were. N.T.

[Aerows]

119. When somebody tells me who they are, I believe them.

When they tell me who they are then SHOW me, I'd be worse than foolish not to believe them.

[kwassa]

139. You know who they are but not why they are.

Mateen did not know why he was who he was. He had layers of issues, Islam being one of several, mental issues possibly being the greatest of them. He had plenty

[ileus]

116. they forgot Christianity...LOL

[mwrguy]

117. K&R

Thanks for posting.

[hrmjustin]

120. This was an attack on the LGBT community. Period! And yes his religion was a factor.

Unrec!

[Quackers]

137. +1

I'm sorry that there are people trying to twist that fact to fit their agenda.

[LostOne4Ever]

122. UN-rec. Using the death of LGBTQ people to fuel your own person agenda is disgusting! nt

[X_Digger]

133. What the fuck did I just read?

Everything isn't about goddamned you, BLM.

Bye, Felicia.

[tritsofme]

144. Wow...what a steaming pile of garbage...

The creativity of this sort of denial never ceases to amaze me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

147. So I bought one of those puzzles, you know... the kind with like, a thousand pieces?

It was a gumball machine with multi-colored balls of gum. It took days to put it together but when I was done... there was one. fucking. piece. missing.

I thought "fuck this". So I got a sheet of paper and a pencil and a I traced the outline of the missing piece. Then I went out to my garage and fired up the band saw. In about a half-hour, I had made a piece that fit perfectly. It was even the exact same depth. Then I put it in the puzzle and got my kid's felt-tipped pens and colored the piece to match the one that was missing.

[Prism]

148. This is the best comment ever

Seriously. Almost magical.

[cherokeeprogressive]

151. I knew in my heart even before I saw there WAS a link... that clicking the link would lead to

a story containing these words: "asked not to be identified".

[Albertoo]

155. Is this from the Onion?

Islamic texts commanded to kill gays before western colonialism even existed

[TipTok]

159. Someone is worried that they are falling out of the spotlight...

... and decided to use this to push their bullshit.

Disgusting...

[Odin2005]

174. Lots of enraged Islamophobes in this thread.

Sad that so many "progressives" now take Neocon propaganda as gospel.

[Dreamer Tatum]

179. And now at least one binary thinker.nt

[Prism]

181. Pissed off gay people = enraged Islamaphobes

C'mon, man. This just reads like parody.

[Odin2005]

186. There are plenty of Christians who are just as homophobic as many Muslims.

So according to that logic all religions are as bad as their most socially backward followers, which makes zero sense. Islam has IS and AQ, but it also has the Sufis and the Ahmadiyya.

[Prism]

187. You let me know when Christian assholes shoot up 49 in a gay club

When that day comes, we'll discuss.

[Odin2005]

190. You don't think some Dominionist asshole could do something like this?

[friendly_iconoclast]

191. They could, but in this case it was a Shariaist asshole. The OP denies this inconvenient truth

[Prism]

196. They absolutely could

But they haven't yet.

So, we work with the facts on the ground.

Who did this?

An Islamist asshole.

It's not Islamaphobic (god, I hate that word. It was appropriated from the LGBT community, ironically enough), to go, "Hey! Your religion has some problems!"

You have no problem pointing out the shit areas of Christianity. And I'm with you there. But point out the shit areas of Islam and it's "Why are you so racist and Islamophobic?!?!"

This is illiberal, dangerous, hypocritical, and stupid.

[Odin2005]

197. The problem isn't pointing out problematic cultural aspects of the Islamic world

The problem is ignoring the diversity of belief among Muslims and making claims about what Muslims believe based on a Fundamentalist interpretation of their scriptures, the "New Atheist" types make the same mistake about religion more generally.

Remember, it is not too long ago that the majority of Western Christians held problematic views similar to those of the Islamic world today. People tend to interpret their religious doctrines in such a way that they justify the current social order. They hold the problematic attitudes first and then use religion to justify it.

[Prism]

198. Which interpretation kills people

You've said a lot, but you've actively avoided every militant incarnation of the religion.

Let me help you. My upstairs neighbors are Musim. Id never report them. They're super nice people who ask me about the furnace now and then. Super nice people i like a great deal.

I'll never be racist against them. Ever. But if they started telling me how they admired a Middle Eastern speaker . . .

I'd be on the phone so fast, itd be stupid.

Common sense.

[Democat]

194. The shooter's 911 call is "Neocon propaganda"?

Listen to the man's own words.

[Odin2005]

195. He called out 3 different Islamist organizations that hate each other.

Not something a genuine Islamist fanatic would do, since those groups consider all the other Islamist groups apostates. No, he was an asshole doing it for the shock value.

If a middle class white guy shot up a mall screaming "HAIL SATAN!!!" would that be proof that he was a Satanist?