Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

packman

(16,296 posts)
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:46 AM Jun 2016

Probiotics Are Useless, GMOs Are Fine, and Gluten Is Necessary




A few sacred dietary cows were put on the chopping block this week.

"Over the last seven days, a roster of myth-busting nutrition studies were published showing probiotics are unnecessary, GMOs are harmless, and a gluten-free diet is a terrible idea unless you really need to be on it. Basically the only diet fad wisdom that survived this week is the idea that kale is a superfood (and, actually, it kind of is).

“It’s always nice to see studies that are skeptical of magic nutritionism,” said Dr. Yoni Freedhoff, an Ottawa-based physician and professor who has a blog on nutrition and diet. “But whether or not that actually trickles down into changing the behavior of the public remains to be seen. I think it takes an awful lot, unfortunately, to break the public opinion that there are magic foods.”

The article has a link to kale being a superfood - a good read by itself.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/probiotics-are-useless-gmos-are-fine-and-gluten-is-necessary-nutrition-science-fads-debunked



112 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Probiotics Are Useless, GMOs Are Fine, and Gluten Is Necessary (Original Post) packman Jun 2016 OP
I just started using probiotics a couple of weeks ago. They have been the best thing for my patricia92243 Jun 2016 #1
Probiotics ended years of using antacids & Prilosc for me. They were very inexpensive too. think Jun 2016 #3
Glad but Chuuku Davis Jun 2016 #12
True, but the study in the OP doesn't look like a serious one bhikkhu Jun 2016 #96
I had the problem awoke_in_2003 Jun 2016 #73
Exactly. cwydro Jun 2016 #88
I make my own yogurt and eat it daily...See my comments in post 6. This study says NOTHING relevent hlthe2b Jun 2016 #7
Probiotics ended a six week bout of diarrhea for me, a few years back. Crunchy Frog Jun 2016 #16
I slaughtered a chicken, and my headaches went away! Nt Logical Jun 2016 #80
lol - I'd rather have a headache than have to slaughter a chicken patricia92243 Jun 2016 #90
They helped me as well, once my gut was more stqble I switched to just active culture yogurt peacebird Jun 2016 #102
Mmm... KALE. n/t leeroysphitz Jun 2016 #2
said nobody ever dlwickham Jun 2016 #4
Steamed with balsamic vinegar and thyme Aerows Jun 2016 #8
Okra falls into the same category as chitterlings for me. Not for me lol. Too slimy. n/t leeroysphitz Jun 2016 #10
Oh you should try the Indian preparations. Very different Recursion Jun 2016 #13
Only good in gumbo Aerows Jun 2016 #15
You have to slightly burn it, and then it tastes a bit like popcorn. Lars39 Jun 2016 #29
Just let it sit in a tasty roux. Aerows Jun 2016 #31
Oh, yum. Lars39 Jun 2016 #32
It's getting to be noon Aerows Jun 2016 #34
Me too. Lars39 Jun 2016 #37
BINGO! Laffy Kat Jun 2016 #39
My husband's grandmother regularly burnt out eyes on her stove Lars39 Jun 2016 #40
Slice it up GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #27
Ick, no. Worst thing ever. Aerows Jun 2016 #33
+ 100 Juicy_Bellows Jun 2016 #68
I love both! 840high Jun 2016 #50
I love Okra any way it is prepared. Boiled, fried or with tomatoes & corn. yummy! Jim Beard Jun 2016 #51
Okra, mmmmm...... Bayard Jun 2016 #53
Next time you make baby Lima beans or butter beans GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #69
Okra *tastes* good--but its snot like texture grosses me out. nt tblue37 Jun 2016 #98
Always loved okra malaise Jun 2016 #104
What? I love kale Recursion Jun 2016 #11
I grew up eating it and love the stuff. MH1 Jun 2016 #41
Except me. I even like dry roasted salted kale bet that makes your toes curl! Person 2713 Jun 2016 #57
Yes, kale... smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #61
GMOs might be fine to consume but they are not "fine" for the farmers financially ruined by the rush Vote2016 Jun 2016 #5
Poor business practices Johnny2X2X Jun 2016 #30
It is not a "poor" business practice; it is an unethical and immoral practice and the technology Vote2016 Jun 2016 #65
Pushing anti-GMO deceit isn't exactly ok. HuckleB Jun 2016 #111
That has nothing to do with GMOs. HuckleB Jun 2016 #42
Pick on this farmer if it profits you but there are tens of thousands with a similar hardship and Vote2016 Jun 2016 #64
Nonsense Major Nikon Jun 2016 #67
Lol. How about these apples? Vote2016 Jun 2016 #71
You mean oranges Major Nikon Jun 2016 #79
That's hundreds of farmers; maybe 1,000. That's just two crops, just in the US. Extrapolate globally Vote2016 Jun 2016 #81
Oranges Major Nikon Jun 2016 #82
BS. HuckleB Jun 2016 #110
Michael White is an admitted thief Major Nikon Jun 2016 #66
The probiotic meta analysis is flawed for multiple reasons and I consider it ueseless hlthe2b Jun 2016 #6
Exactly. If you're already healthy, how would the probiotic effect even be detectable? mainer Jun 2016 #14
Yes... If you go to the analysis, it includes studies using a variety of sources hlthe2b Jun 2016 #19
The study clearly was about healthy people Major Nikon Jun 2016 #85
Beyond being a highly flawed analysis for multiple reasons, including those I detailed hlthe2b Jun 2016 #92
The question is whether or not probiotics have a benefit to those not fully healthy Major Nikon Jun 2016 #93
Including probiotics as "useless" tells me the article is bullshit. MH1 Jun 2016 #9
Gluten makes your dick fly off NobodyHere Jun 2016 #17
I loved that episode! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #62
Certain kinds of skepticism are bullshit too. hunter Jun 2016 #18
I don't see where GMO impact on environment or farming economy is analyzed Bad Thoughts Jun 2016 #20
Good point. Most GM seeds are pesticide/herbicide resistant. apnu Jun 2016 #83
Those pesticides you are talking about are heavily regulated Major Nikon Jun 2016 #86
Sauerkraut cured my son mainer Jun 2016 #21
So, 2oz of fermented sauerkraut has more probiotics than a 100 count bottle of probiotic capsules. Bonx Jun 2016 #24
That reminds me to go get some kimchi for my meal ! Poor kid those antibiotics Person 2713 Jun 2016 #58
Yeah, moral of story: avoid antibiotics if possible mainer Jun 2016 #60
Kimchi tastes good. Igel Jun 2016 #84
I make my own Kombucha... kind of fun/weird to do JCMach1 Jun 2016 #78
Probiotics aren't at all useless if you have to take antibiotics. Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #22
Mmm good! Pesticide Pizza or Herbicide Hamburger ffr Jun 2016 #23
Is this from the Onion ? You forgot the link. Bonx Jun 2016 #25
Yes I do. ffr Jun 2016 #26
I like taffy Bonx Jun 2016 #28
... Major Nikon Jun 2016 #89
... ... ffr Jun 2016 #99
Like everyone else, I have no idea what you said Major Nikon Jun 2016 #107
??? ffr Jun 2016 #108
You've mistaken me for someone who cares what you feel about anyone Major Nikon Jun 2016 #109
I suppose next they'll tell us beans aren't the magical fruit pinboy3niner Jun 2016 #35
That's musical, dummy... Wounded Bear Jun 2016 #43
You're right, I flubbed my line lol pinboy3niner Jun 2016 #44
I thought it was intentional... Wounded Bear Jun 2016 #47
Still are and for that cow whistler162 Jun 2016 #70
Gluten is not necessary in the least. The problems associated with "gluten free" are ALL related to djean111 Jun 2016 #36
There's the misuse of "skeptical" again villager Jun 2016 #38
My primary concern about non-GMOs and organic food... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #45
Can you explain further? HuckleB Jun 2016 #46
Organic a are obvious... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #72
What is obvious? Major Nikon Jun 2016 #87
Yeah they are not "fine" imo Person 2713 Jun 2016 #59
The vast majority of "nutrition studies" are garbage Nevernose Jun 2016 #48
So drinking gluten free vodka won't make me healthy? DBoon Jun 2016 #49
That's helpful to those of us marybourg Jun 2016 #54
I think a lot of people think Gluten free just means not eating bread Marrah_G Jun 2016 #94
I wish it were that simple! marybourg Jun 2016 #112
I had a little job populating a big database, years ago - "Freebase" (which I think is a very djean111 Jun 2016 #56
Probiotics are sometimes useful, Gluten is not necessary Marrah_G Jun 2016 #52
You missed a bit: Probiotics Are Useless, GMOs Are Fine, Gluten's Necessary, Tobacco isn't Addictive Attorney in Texas Jun 2016 #55
Bravo! scarletwoman Jun 2016 #63
I believe that Mendocino Jun 2016 #74
So do you think Monsanto paid hordes of idiots to promote the GMO=poison nonsense? Major Nikon Jun 2016 #91
Some people think so: "Monsanto Enlists Astroturf Group vs. Food Inc." Do you have any insights? Attorney in Texas Jun 2016 #95
They also think vaccines, 9/11, and water fluoridation are gov conspiracies Major Nikon Jun 2016 #97
Red Herring argument #2 ffr Jun 2016 #100
Are you just incoherent in this thread? Major Nikon Jun 2016 #106
And those who need to be gluten-free have a terrible time adhering to the diet pnwmom Jun 2016 #75
It's not "magic". It's nutrition. bunnies Jun 2016 #76
Probiotics, aka acidophilous bacteria, come in very handy when you're on antibiotics Warpy Jun 2016 #77
Probiotics MFM008 Jun 2016 #101
Been eating almost all these foods without knowing it HockeyMom Jun 2016 #103
Poor phrasing. Motown_Johnny Jun 2016 #105

patricia92243

(12,595 posts)
1. I just started using probiotics a couple of weeks ago. They have been the best thing for my
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

stomach that I have done EVER.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
3. Probiotics ended years of using antacids & Prilosc for me. They were very inexpensive too.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jun 2016

Bought a bottle of acidophilus for about 7 bucks and after 3-4 weeks I was feeling the best I felt in years.

I now take them occasionally (2-4 times a month rather than every day.) and take them regularly for about a week if symptoms come back. In the last 5 years that's only happened maybe 3 or 4 times though.

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
96. True, but the study in the OP doesn't look like a serious one
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 01:51 PM
Jun 2016

looking at the bacterial populations in fecal matter is a good approach, but looking only for the effect of yogurt and biscuits on an otherwise healthy individual might not be the most conclusive thing.

I'd never heard of a probiotic biscuit; googling it led to this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23364497 . Which seems to contradict the "debunking" of the OP.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
73. I had the problem
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:34 PM
Jun 2016

of very loose stool almost immediately after eating. Acidophilus and the occasion yogurt (when I don't feel like taking a pill) took care of that problem nicely. We seem to have two groups here (one of them responded to you)- people who believe natural remedies are true miracles, and people who believe they are true crap. Both can be quite annoying. The world is not black and white, and what works for some may not work for others.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
7. I make my own yogurt and eat it daily...See my comments in post 6. This study says NOTHING relevent
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:22 AM
Jun 2016

Anyone making a decision on whether to ensure (or not) that the diet has adequate probiotic content based on this meta analysis findings alone would be foolish.

Both my dog and I will continue consuming live active culture homemade yogurt daily...

Crunchy Frog

(26,579 posts)
16. Probiotics ended a six week bout of diarrhea for me, a few years back.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:31 AM
Jun 2016

just in time to avoid the colonoscopy. Was seriously losing weight, and dr couldn't find any reason for it. Started taking probiotics, and it ended almost instantly.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
8. Steamed with balsamic vinegar and thyme
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:22 AM
Jun 2016

You will absolutely change your mind.

I come from the South, though, and we can make everything taste good. Well, with chitterlings being the exception. Somebody probably at some point made those taste good, but far and few between.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
15. Only good in gumbo
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:30 AM
Jun 2016

after being cooked down in a good roux. I have no use for fried okra - that's just ugly on a plate.

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
29. You have to slightly burn it, and then it tastes a bit like popcorn.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jun 2016

Over cooking it like that also dries up most of the goo.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
31. Just let it sit in a tasty roux.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jun 2016

sautée for quite a while to get a nice reduction.

You are golden, then.

Laffy Kat

(16,377 posts)
39. BINGO!
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:05 PM
Jun 2016

My grandmother used to say that it wasn't ready until the Fire Department arrived! We would open all the doors and windows and smoke the place to hell.

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
40. My husband's grandmother regularly burnt out eyes on her stove
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:07 PM
Jun 2016

because she cooked everything on high.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
33. Ick, no. Worst thing ever.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:50 PM
Jun 2016

I'll gratefully hand over all the okra in the world to you when fried, pass me the cabbage because I know how to cook it correctly.

Bayard

(22,061 posts)
53. Okra, mmmmm......
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 02:55 PM
Jun 2016

I have some growing in my garden now. I'm a southern kid and grew up eating it in fresh black-eyed or crowder peas, with bacon and onions thrown in. Nummy. Not slimy.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
69. Next time you make baby Lima beans or butter beans
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:23 PM
Jun 2016

Add a chopped tomato 20-30 minutes before you take them off the heat. Takes them to a new level of good.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
41. I grew up eating it and love the stuff.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:07 PM
Jun 2016

I liked it before it was cool. Or hip. Or whatever.

All I do is wash it, strip it from the stems, and steam it. Properly steamed, that is all it needs.

Of course, if all you know of kale is some of the truly crappy processed products that people are coming up with to try to make money from it, well I don't blame you.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
5. GMOs might be fine to consume but they are not "fine" for the farmers financially ruined by the rush
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:17 AM
Jun 2016

to corner the agribusiness market by monopolistic corporations:

Surveillance. Threats of violence. A one-sided legal battle. It’s not the latest John Grisham novel; it’s what a fourth-generation farmer from Alabama says he went through at the hands of the giant agribusiness Monsanto. The farmer, Michael White, tells his story in the short documentary “Seeding Fear,” which was co-executive produced by singer-songwriter Neil Young (under his pseudonym "Bernard Shakey&quot and directed by Craig Jackson.

http://modernfarmer.com/2015/09/seeding-fear-the-story-of-a-farmer-who-took-on-monsanto/

Johnny2X2X

(19,038 posts)
30. Poor business practices
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:47 PM
Jun 2016

You're talking about the bad business practices of a corporation, not GMO technology.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
65. It is not a "poor" business practice; it is an unethical and immoral practice and the technology
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 05:08 PM
Jun 2016

exists to promote this immorality.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
42. That has nothing to do with GMOs.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:15 PM
Jun 2016

Also, the farmer in question broke the contract he signed, so it's really not on Monsanto. Similar contracts are used by most seed companies for all types of seeds, by the way. It's not a GMO thing at all.

Neil Young should be ashamed to have made that nonsense propaganda.

The best response I've seen to it:

"Hey Neil, I love the music. Just watched your Seeding Fear documentary and had no idea you were so cool with patent and licensing violations.

I'm currently downloading your entire catalog via bit torrent. That won't be a problem will it? I mean, licensing fees for arranging sounds that already occur naturally is pretty much the antithesis of what you stand for, right? Paying for something you made when I can get it free from someone else just makes more sense.

Anywho, just thought I'd thank you for "Down By The River." That's like my favorite song ever."


PS: Here's the actual court document.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-alnd-5_03-cv-02804/pdf/USCOURTS-alnd-5_03-cv-02804-0.pdf

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
64. Pick on this farmer if it profits you but there are tens of thousands with a similar hardship and
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 05:05 PM
Jun 2016

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

astroturf can't cover up all the wrongdoing.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
67. Nonsense
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 06:36 PM
Jun 2016

The bullshit source you are promoting doesn't even claim "tens of thousands".

Amazing how the story just keeps getting taller each time it's told. If you are a thief like Michael White, you can expect to get sued for your thievery. The hardship that resulted was of his own creation.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
79. You mean oranges
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:46 PM
Jun 2016
tens of thousands with a similar hardship


WTF is even remotely similar about anything you posted?

If you're just going to post irrelevant garbage from a google search, don't bother. Random keystrokes could produce a better reply.
 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
81. That's hundreds of farmers; maybe 1,000. That's just two crops, just in the US. Extrapolate globally
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 08:56 AM
Jun 2016

and across the GMO spectrum.

Do you think the problems faced by rice and corn farmers in the US is limited to those crops and to our nation?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
82. Oranges
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:03 AM
Jun 2016

You provided an example of a thieving farmer getting sued by a biotech company and pretending it was happening in "tens of thousands" of other cases. Nothing you can dig up with a google search is going you make that claim any less nonsense.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
6. The probiotic meta analysis is flawed for multiple reasons and I consider it ueseless
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jun 2016

Not only are the methods all over the spectrum, but the endpoint--survival/enrichment of FECAL biota questionable, given there is considerable reason to believe the "site of action may be proximal to the colon" as the study's own authors even acknowledge. Further, again from this study's own authors: "It is concluded that there is little, if any, evidence of an effect of probiotic treatment in circumstances where the microbiota is unperturbed by pathophysiological processes or pharmaceutical treatment (antibiotics or chemotherapy), either concurrent with or prior to intervention. " That, is equivalent to essentially saying probiotic supplementation did not make already HEALTHY people any HEALTHIER and is ridiculous on its face.

This one needs to be discounted... I haven't looked at the others.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
14. Exactly. If you're already healthy, how would the probiotic effect even be detectable?
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:30 AM
Jun 2016

How do you make a healthy, asymptomatic person MORE asymptomatic?

Also, what is the source of the probiotic, is it in tablet form? Those are poorly regulated. It's been my experience that the most effective probiotics come in the form of fermented foods (specifically sauerkraut).

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
19. Yes... If you go to the analysis, it includes studies using a variety of sources
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jun 2016

but none included -fermented whole foods-- which, while it makes it easier to validate the "starting" dose, is very likely to emerge (as have studies on pill-form antioxidants) to be yet another apples v oranges comparison.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
85. The study clearly was about healthy people
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jun 2016

If there's nothing wrong with your gut flora, then probiotics may not do anything for you. For many people this isn't the case for a variety of reasons both temporary and permanent which the meta analysis didn't address.

I use probiotics to culture milk and cream into yogurt, buttermilk, and sour cream. So for me they are very useful.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
92. Beyond being a highly flawed analysis for multiple reasons, including those I detailed
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 11:55 AM
Jun 2016

and which the author also acknowledges, your point is likewise meaningless, But I do credit you with not taking everything at face value, since you do seem to recognize the valuee of probiotics in producing food products.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
93. The question is whether or not probiotics have a benefit to those not fully healthy
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jun 2016

My point was the study didn't address that situation in which I suspect probiotics do have a substantial benefit.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
9. Including probiotics as "useless" tells me the article is bullshit.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:23 AM
Jun 2016

I won't even go into all the reasons I know that. (TMI).

The one caveat is that nutritional supplements are unregulated so sure, you could buy a product that claims to contain some phenomenal amount of probiotics, and it might be totally ineffective. (But the brand probably wouldn't last long.)

The best bet is to consume kefir or yogurt in perfectly reasonable dietary amounts (like a couple times a week if not having issues or taking antibiotics; in that case a serving daily will usually suffice, at most two servings).

hunter

(38,310 posts)
18. Certain kinds of skepticism are bullshit too.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jun 2016

GMO's are not one thing. Some of them are going to have more positives than negatives, some are going to have more negatives than positives.

Blindly defending corporate science and economics is another form of magical thinking.

Big agricultural corporations and big pharmaceutical corporations market lies, they fund "science" that isn't science, and they attack legitimate scientists whenever it's profitable.

Bad Thoughts

(2,522 posts)
20. I don't see where GMO impact on environment or farming economy is analyzed
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:51 AM
Jun 2016

Perhaps the issue is being bracketed.

apnu

(8,755 posts)
83. Good point. Most GM seeds are pesticide/herbicide resistant.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:10 AM
Jun 2016

How come we reaely look at the drowning of crops in Roundup and the inevitable runoff?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
86. Those pesticides you are talking about are heavily regulated
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jun 2016

They must go through a lengthy certification process and those who apply them commercially must be trained and licensed. There's also been hundreds of studies on Roundup alone.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
21. Sauerkraut cured my son
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jun 2016

we are a medical family -- two MDs, and a lot of skepticism. Our son traveled in Asia and came down with intestinal symptoms for which he was treated with antibiotics. What followed was three years of misery, GI distress, multiple visits to gastroenterologists, repeated stool cultures, and no relief. In desperation, the poor kid cut out gluten, dairy products, veggies -- just about everything he used to love eating. He continued suffering.

About three weeks before he was scheduled for a colonoscopy, I read a NYT magazine article by Michael Pollan regarding the human microbiome and how fermented foods could repopulate the human gut with "good" bacteria. What did my son have to lose? He began eating home-made sauerkraut several times a day.

The day before his colonoscopy, he cancelled the appointment. After three long years, he'd been cured -- by nothing more than a big pot of sliced, fermented cabbage.

His gastroenterologist was amazed. And is now a believer.

Bonx

(2,053 posts)
24. So, 2oz of fermented sauerkraut has more probiotics than a 100 count bottle of probiotic capsules.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jun 2016

Good stuff. It's my go-to side dish with my lunch sandwich.

Person 2713

(3,263 posts)
58. That reminds me to go get some kimchi for my meal ! Poor kid those antibiotics
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jun 2016

it must of really wiped out his entire gut! Good and bad that can happen

mainer

(12,022 posts)
60. Yeah, moral of story: avoid antibiotics if possible
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:03 PM
Jun 2016

If you're otherwise healthy, with a normal immune system, it's better to suffer through the temporary agony of gastroenteritis than to take drugs that will wipe out your gut flora and leave you with longterm problems.

Kimchi tastes good, too!

Igel

(35,300 posts)
84. Kimchi tastes good.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:19 AM
Jun 2016

And it's easy to make.

(Have some in the fridge, next to the homemade chilli pickle. Fermented cabbage and radish next to the lightly fermented chili peppers with spices.)

JCMach1

(27,556 posts)
78. I make my own Kombucha... kind of fun/weird to do
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jun 2016

and kind of tasty... full of probiotics...

I do it for gout though, not digestion.

ffr

(22,669 posts)
23. Mmm good! Pesticide Pizza or Herbicide Hamburger
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jun 2016

It's what's on the menu 2 - NITE!!!!

Nothing wrong with GMOs other than their chemistry, right Dr. Yoni Freedhoff, Ottawa-based physician and professor.

Sorry Ms. Bee for the pesticides that cause you to lose direction and buzz around endlessly, lost until you die, because GMO pesticide resistant crops offer higher yields to feed the ever expanding 228,000 new humans added to this planet per day, while CCD is, well, collapsing your & other pollinator populations.



Sorry Ms. Monarch for herbicides killing off your babies milkweed plants, which Round Up Ready crops are extremely proficient at, reducing your population to 10 - 15% of what it was only a few decades ago. We think you're pretty, but we don't need you. We need higher yielding more profitable GMO crops!



Sorry Ms. Jane Doe for not informing you that it's the chemical makeup of GMOs that you may not be aware of and that studies like this gloss over. But what's a little pesticide and herbicide residue in your "fine" GMO food, right? It's just a little bit. Don't worry about it, you're a big human being, not a small insect or flimsy plant. Physicians like Dr. Yoni Freedhoff can see above all that. In fact, you're fine to eat GMOs in mass quantities, that's how "fine" they are for you and your toddlers.



ffr

(22,669 posts)
99. ... ...
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jun 2016
"https://www.google.com/search?q=red herring"

Do you have anything to substantiate or dispute what I said or are you on here just to distract and annoy people.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
109. You've mistaken me for someone who cares what you feel about anyone
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:51 PM
Jun 2016

You'd do better copying and pasting your well debunked talking points from your sources, because when you try to author them yourself, they come out as word salad. Not to mention you could have saved yourself a lot of time and trouble spending lots of time producing something that was simply written off as gibberish by everyone who even bothered to try and make heads or tails of it.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
36. Gluten is not necessary in the least. The problems associated with "gluten free" are ALL related to
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:52 PM
Jun 2016

what people eat as substitutes.

Not even the "micro-nutrients" are necessary. Those are token micro-nutrients added in because they are stripped out during processing. No one gets their nutrition from gluten. Unless they are living on just bread. And the nutrients that are added to foods with gluten are readily available in other foods.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
38. There's the misuse of "skeptical" again
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:57 PM
Jun 2016

...i.e., never be skeptical of corporate made/grown food.

Always be "skeptical" of alternatives.

When the reality is to have a balanced approach, know what your alternatives are to Big Food and Big Pharma when you need them, take certain things with grains of salt, find what works best for you, etc...

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
45. My primary concern about non-GMOs and organic food...
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:22 PM
Jun 2016

Isn't so much if they are healthier to eat, but their affect on the environment.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
72. Organic a are obvious...
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:10 PM
Jun 2016

Pesticides and overuse of nitrite based fertilizers have caused havoc to the environment.

GMOs are less obvious....I worry about the effects of cross-pollonization and the entire food web.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
87. What is obvious?
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jun 2016

The organic certification process contains no guarantees against anything you mentioned. It's nothing more than a marketing effort.

Cross-pollination happens no matter what seed development technology is used and has been for thousands of years.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
48. The vast majority of "nutrition studies" are garbage
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jun 2016

You want me to find fifty studies finding that salt is the devil? Can do. Want fifty more showing that salt is harmless? No problem.

In my limited time on this planet, I've learned one key fact: it's all bullshit (I learned this from George Carlin).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's healthy and what's not, and even with the best possible nutrition, you're still going to die. We are all going to die. We are all going to die no matter how much kale we stir fry in avocado oil and no matter how many vitamins and supplements we take. We're probably going to be scared shitless in the moments immediately leading up to our demise -- with the occasional precognitive fear for decades before our death -- and the best we can reasonably hope for is to make it to the middle of our seventh decade and still be moderately mobile.

"Nutrition," for most of us in the well-nourished Western world, is just 21st century folk magic.

(And in the spirit of honesty, I should mention that I take vitamins and supplements daily, some of which because I'm supposed to and others of which because I'm a paranoid loon, and I also exercise at least an hour a day, six days a week).

marybourg

(12,620 posts)
54. That's helpful to those of us
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:16 PM
Jun 2016

who MUST eat and drink gluten free. Vodka is often made with rye (one of the 3 prohibited grains along with wheat and barley). Sometimes it's even made with wheat.

People (including those who MUST eat gluten free) are often stunned by the wide variety of foods that can contain ( or be contaminated during commercial production with ) gluten. Licorice, mushrooms, cornstarch, scotch whiskey, potato chips, soy sauce and -- vodka. And many, many others.

Conclusion -- it's extremely difficult to eat gluten free. I can't imagine why anyone would do it unless they have celiac disease, as I do, or have found by experience that a long-term undiagnosed condition is greatly improved by eating gluten free, as several people I know have. Please be tolerant.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
56. I had a little job populating a big database, years ago - "Freebase" (which I think is a very
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jun 2016

unfortunate name ). Freebase was folded into wikidata. Interesting stuff to do. I worked on NCAA tournaments, movies, books, foods, restaurants, the Toronto bus system, golf courses, corporations, museum exhibitions, film festivals, mapping shopping in neighborhoods, celebrities, and other stuff. For an ADHD person, it is a great job. I did learn to never go to a Russian web site - found an obscure horror movie poster, and got a virus.

One of my projects was to identify if foods in the database were gluten-free. I was really surprised how many foods had gluten in them. It is assumed that vodka made from wheat has distilled the gluten out, but I can't remember what the consensus was on that.

Personally, I am a low carber, and really only care about net carbs. I do know that gluten itself is totally unnecessary as food.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
55. You missed a bit: Probiotics Are Useless, GMOs Are Fine, Gluten's Necessary, Tobacco isn't Addictive
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:24 PM
Jun 2016

What a bunch of propaganda!

It is a Monsanto propaganda framing tool to cast the GMO debate in terms of "is it poison for you to eat or isn't it poison to eat GMOs?"

Framing the debate this way sidesteps the key question whether it is an ethical or monopolistic business model. GMOs are a corporate strategy to monopolize agribusiness and to crush independent farming at the expense of biodiversity. GMOs suck and Monsanto and its cohorts have fooled you into thinking the issues is whether or not GMOs are poison or not.

Mendocino

(7,486 posts)
74. I believe that
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:44 PM
Jun 2016

GMOs have inhibited the digestibility and nutrition of food in order to maximize production levels. Crops that grow faster, ship and store better or more cheaply raised may be pushed by big farm to the detriment of more palatable and healthy but slightly less "marketable" crops. Maybe less digestible wheat or other grains causes the gluten problem.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
97. They also think vaccines, 9/11, and water fluoridation are gov conspiracies
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 02:10 PM
Jun 2016

Not to mention regurgitating other nonsense from other conspiracy theory nutbags like Mercola, Mike Adams, and Alex Fucking Jones.

So yeah, great source you got there.

Meanwhile I'll just note you didn't answer the question and assume you aren't going to even attempt to support your ridiculous conspiracy theory assertions.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
75. And those who need to be gluten-free have a terrible time adhering to the diet
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:50 PM
Jun 2016

because labeling is still so poor.

Promoting stories like this give restaurants and food producers an excuse for not keeping gluten out of the food of people who have serious reasons to avoid it.

Thanks a lot.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
76. It's not "magic". It's nutrition.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:08 PM
Jun 2016

Anyone who argues against food ( aka nutrition ) as medicine is an idiot.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
77. Probiotics, aka acidophilous bacteria, come in very handy when you're on antibiotics
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:32 PM
Jun 2016

because they can replenish some of the good bacteria the antibiotics are killing off. I can't imagine taking any pricey health food store pills, yogurt and sauerkraut do a great job. I guess those pills are for hypochondriacs and people who never learned to love fermented foods.

They don't do a damned thing for healthy people except clean out their wallets unless those healthy people enjoy the foods they produce.

Gluten free foods are great for people with celiac disease and damned nice for the 0.2% of people with allergy.

GMO foods are safe and if someday they find one with unintended consequences, they can be wiped out in two years. The seeds are sterile.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
103. Been eating almost all these foods without knowing it
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:58 PM
Jun 2016

Surprised me when I looked up the list. This is coming from my own ethnic background (Italian) and my husband's of 41 years German/Lithuanian. Sauerkraut and pickles? lol Others came about strictly from living in NYC and acquiring a taste early on for Asian cuisine, which I can now find the ingredients for in a supermarket and cook myself simply because I like the taste of it.

The Dark Chocolate really surprised me. That was the only chocolate I would ever eat as a child, and even today. I can remember my Mom having to specially order a Dark Chocolate Easter Bunny for me back in the 50's. We had a relative who was from Geneva, and he would always bring me back dark chocolate when he went back home.

Also, my Mom would take me to the Italian markets. We would buy chuck Gorgonzola, loaf of Italian bread, and we would break off pieces of both and eat it on our way home. My childhood snack. lol

Who knew? Sounds like the ethnic diets are far better than the American ones of today.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
105. Poor phrasing.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:06 PM
Jun 2016

Probiotics can be useful for some people. The same way a gluten free diet is necessary for some people.

Most people don't need probiotics and most people don't need a gluten free diet.

As for GMOs.. I agree. The mindless fear of them is completely irrational.


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Probiotics Are Useless, G...