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deminks

(11,006 posts)
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:38 PM Jun 2016

So, what does the A R stand for?

Last edited Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

(rhetorical question)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/assault-rifle-used-by-orlando-mass-shooter



Since the Orlando massacre early Sunday morning, pro-gun pundits have come out in force to argue that the weapon used in the attack is not an assault rifle. The gun lobby prefers to call these weapons "modern sporting rifles," euphemistic ammo it can fire in an ongoing semantic debate. But make no mistake: What the Orlando attacker used was a weapon of war. It was designed to kill as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. Witness this harrowing audio captured by a bystander outside the Pulse nightclub in which Omar Mateen fires 24 shots in 9 seconds.

According to a federal law enforcement official, the rifle Mateen used to murder and maim more than 100 people was a Sig Sauer MCX. Mateen legally purchased the weapon, similar to an AR-15, on June 4 in Port St. Lucie, Florida, near where he lived. (He legally purchased a Glock 17 handgun the following day, which he also carried during the attack.)

Sig Sauer bills the MCX as "an innovative weapon system built around a battle-proven core." The company says it "stands as the first rifle to be silenced from the ground up. It also accepts a broad array of accessories, enabling you to build a complete weapon system for any scenario or environment." It has a military-spec trigger and a magazine capacity of 30 rounds. According to the book Guns of Special Forces 2001-2015, the MCX is known in military circles as the "Black Mamba" and was developed at the request of the US Army's special operations forces.

(end snip)

edited to add:

A rhetorical question is a question that you ask without expecting an answer. The question might be one that does not have an answer. It might also be one that has an obvious answer but you have asked the question to make a point, to persuade or for literary effect.

I don't give a rat's behind who made it.

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So, what does the A R stand for? (Original Post) deminks Jun 2016 OP
Obviously NOT Assault Rifle liberal N proud Jun 2016 #1
It is in fact obviously not an assault rifle Recursion Jun 2016 #2
Was it used to assault people liberal N proud Jun 2016 #4
Yes. And it is not an assault rifle Recursion Jun 2016 #6
You're in denial over meaningless semantics. GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #45
Now I understand... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #50
If a ban on assault weapons wouldn't stop this being sold, that's not just semantics. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #59
But the LEOs involved used theirs for counter-assault. ileus Jun 2016 #32
If I beat someone to death with a stick.. TipTok Jun 2016 #41
I guess if I have a baseball ball and go bop somebody on the head and kill them, Waldorf Jun 2016 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author ancianita Jun 2016 #49
Armalite Rifle ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #3
Winner. Winner. Chicken dinner. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #5
Love how the gun people bask in knowing all this gun nomenclature and minutiae. Helps explain Hoyt Jun 2016 #7
Love how anti-gun people bask in their ignorance of guns. DesMoinesDem Jun 2016 #9
FFS Hoyt Recursion Jun 2016 #11
I'm for banning all semi-autos, it cuts out all the BS from those trying to protect their next gun Hoyt Jun 2016 #14
So get a Democrat to propose that and I'm right there with you Recursion Jun 2016 #16
If you know your gun nomenclature, a .38 special is a 6 shot revolver. Waldorf Jun 2016 #47
You need to check your gun knowledge (or lack of same), Waldorf. Gungeoneers will laugh at you. Hoyt Jun 2016 #48
There are lots of 5-shot .38 Special revolvers. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #56
Do you think this yahoo cares whether he has a semi-auto or fully automatic? Hoyt Jun 2016 #17
Do you want him writing laws? Recursion Jun 2016 #20
The law can be written simply -- ban semi-autos, period. No need to try to define grips, etc. Hoyt Jun 2016 #24
I will give you credit for being honest in your desires... ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #31
Yes, the white wingers that protect other white wingers' access for guns don't believe the same. Hoyt Jun 2016 #34
The high-level gun controllers don't believe the same either. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #35
I know you love it. It give your life meaning to love it. So keep on loving it. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #13
Gawd forbid anyone know anything about the things we're trying to regulate. Adrahil Jun 2016 #15
I don't think it matters what AR stands for. What it should stand for is what type of rifle was Hoyt Jun 2016 #19
And the AWB keeps that rifle legal, with a modified grip Recursion Jun 2016 #21
Don't worry about grips -- ban rifles (and handguns) with detachable magazines, drums, clips, belts Hoyt Jun 2016 #22
So if you need 7, dead is better? ileus Jun 2016 #27
I have read your fearful posts here about needing a bunch of guns, ammo, even body armor Hoyt Jun 2016 #33
Safety First, dying later. ileus Jun 2016 #37
We should ban them all simply because right wingers love'em discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #51
Anyone who lived through the VietNam era knows what AR stands for... arendt Jun 2016 #53
Maybe it's "cultural reference" we need to turn into a "historical reference, " or gunners' lament. Hoyt Jun 2016 #55
Most veterans know this stuff... BadtotheboneBob Jun 2016 #58
Indeed - an "assault weapon" that is a semi-auto version of a select-fire military arm, jmg257 Jun 2016 #8
non-rhetorical answer TexasProgresive Jun 2016 #10
Armed Robbery? KamaAina Jun 2016 #12
"At Random" ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2016 #18
Armalite rifle. linuxman Jun 2016 #23
I think the marketeers who name gunz nowadays have a very good reason for using AR in the name. Hoyt Jun 2016 #26
Yes, because it's the model name for the type of firearm. linuxman Jun 2016 #38
No, it's used because yahoos want to shoot an "assault rifle." It make them feel powerful as one Hoyt Jun 2016 #39
Then why don't the maufactureres just call them assault rifles? linuxman Jun 2016 #43
Because there is a formal, real world definition of "assault rifle" ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #54
Exactly linuxman Jun 2016 #57
Ha - don't ever try to teach yourself to play guitar then! Very frustrating hobby, that. jmg257 Jun 2016 #40
I have no illusions of a future with music. linuxman Jun 2016 #44
ArmaLite rifle ileus Jun 2016 #25
This ^^^^^ arendt Jun 2016 #52
"Airhead Republican". nt bemildred Jun 2016 #28
Asshole Rifle? DCBob Jun 2016 #29
"Ain't Regulated." Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2016 #30
I am personally in favor of restricting the sale of any weapon over 12 inches long that is fed LiberalArkie Jun 2016 #36
it's the short ones that they really regulate mwrguy Jun 2016 #46

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. It is in fact obviously not an assault rifle
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:44 PM
Jun 2016

Agreed?

Assaault rifles are not available for commercial sale; this was.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. Yes. And it is not an assault rifle
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jun 2016

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that that is some kind of paradox. It's not.

Assault rifles are not available for general retail sale. This was. I have no idea why this is so hard for people to actually confront.

Waldorf

(654 posts)
42. I guess if I have a baseball ball and go bop somebody on the head and kill them,
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:55 PM
Jun 2016

its no longer a baseball bat but an "Assault Bat".

Response to Waldorf (Reply #42)

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
3. Armalite Rifle
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:45 PM
Jun 2016

Named after the company that first made it. The rights were later purchased by Colt.

(The link does not answer the question.)

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
7. Love how the gun people bask in knowing all this gun nomenclature and minutiae. Helps explain
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:52 PM
Jun 2016

why this ad campaign was so successful:



 

DesMoinesDem

(1,569 posts)
9. Love how anti-gun people bask in their ignorance of guns.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:58 PM
Jun 2016

"I have no idea what AR stands for! Is it Assault Rifle? It's not? Who cares! Ban all guns!"

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. FFS Hoyt
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:59 PM
Jun 2016
We are proposing an idiotic law. Do you get that? It is so completely divorced from any technical reality as to be pointless. I'm for banning all semi-automatics. I am fucking furious that you claim to care about this issue but won't bother to learn enough about the subject to see how stupid your proposed solution is and in fact insult those of us who also care about gun control but bothered to learn what the hell we're talking about.

There. That feels better.
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
14. I'm for banning all semi-autos, it cuts out all the BS from those trying to protect their next gun
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:04 PM
Jun 2016

or ammo purchase. No, "nomenclature" is something gun lovers and the NRA hide behind. Believe me, I know my gun nomenclature -- but I don't need to use it to safeguard gun yahoos' need for more guns. Just ban the damn things, tell the gun yahoos to seek professional help if the can't make it with a 5 shot 38 Special and be done with it. Australia, Canada, Eurpope don't need all the BS.

Waldorf

(654 posts)
47. If you know your gun nomenclature, a .38 special is a 6 shot revolver.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:22 PM
Jun 2016

And since you bring up other Countries, then I suggest you get to work on Amending the Constitution. Until then, I will keep my single shots, semi-automatics, etc.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
56. There are lots of 5-shot .38 Special revolvers.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:54 PM
Jun 2016

A very common configuration for concealed carry or law enforcement backup, in fact.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
20. Do you want him writing laws?
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:13 PM
Jun 2016

Because our party is championing a law writen at his cognitive level.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
24. The law can be written simply -- ban semi-autos, period. No need to try to define grips, etc.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:23 PM
Jun 2016

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
31. I will give you credit for being honest in your desires...
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:30 PM
Jun 2016

as unpopular as they might be. At least your desires are based on some logic.

Unfortunately for you, those writing the laws on your behalf do not have your needs or interests at heart. Their agenda does not match that of the general population.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
34. Yes, the white wingers that protect other white wingers' access for guns don't believe the same.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:32 PM
Jun 2016
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
15. Gawd forbid anyone know anything about the things we're trying to regulate.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:05 PM
Jun 2016

It's like knowing stuff and making informed decisions is a bad idea.

FFS....

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
19. I don't think it matters what AR stands for. What it should stand for is what type of rifle was
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:10 PM
Jun 2016

used to kill little kids at Sandy Hook, innocents in Orlando, and is the favorite of every right wing racist in this country.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
21. And the AWB keeps that rifle legal, with a modified grip
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:14 PM
Jun 2016

And for some reason you think that's a good idea.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
22. Don't worry about grips -- ban rifles (and handguns) with detachable magazines, drums, clips, belts
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:21 PM
Jun 2016

or whatever the hell gun yahoos want to call them. And ban producing a rifle -- lever action, bolt action, etc. -- or handgun that holds more than 6 shots. 6, that's it. If you can't live with only 6, you are SOL.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
33. I have read your fearful posts here about needing a bunch of guns, ammo, even body armor
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:31 PM
Jun 2016

to protect yourself. You don't need any of that stuff, you WANT IT, and for irrational reasons. And those who feel the same, are a threat to our society.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
37. Safety First, dying later.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:38 PM
Jun 2016

My faith in beans and bicycle wheels has been somewhat diminished lately.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
51. We should ban them all simply because right wingers love'em
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:06 PM
Jun 2016

We should ban their favorite baseball team and bubble gum as well.

arendt

(5,078 posts)
53. Anyone who lived through the VietNam era knows what AR stands for...
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:41 PM
Jun 2016

Its as well-known as "fragging" or "REMF" or "Five o'clock follies".

Its a cultural reference, not necessarily a piece of gun trivia.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
55. Maybe it's "cultural reference" we need to turn into a "historical reference, " or gunners' lament.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:53 PM
Jun 2016

BadtotheboneBob

(413 posts)
58. Most veterans know this stuff...
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 05:48 PM
Jun 2016

... that's why I do. I learned 45 years ago that ArmaLite designed the weapon and Colt bought the rights to it and made the full-auto M-16 version of the AR-15 I was training with. What am I suppose to do, just forget all info that was crammed into my 18 y/o brain? I'm politely asking you to get off your high horse, okay?

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
8. Indeed - an "assault weapon" that is a semi-auto version of a select-fire military arm,
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jun 2016

as so many are.

More from the article

"Although the legal civilian version of the gun fires on semi-automatic, it can be highly lethal"

And a recent review...

"SIG SAUER developed the MCX rifle for America’s special forces. Their goal: a firearm that’s as quiet as an MP5, as deadly as an AK-47, and more modular than anything ever designed...

The military version is a useful firearm; even with a massive silencer attached, shooting in full-auto, the MCX is extremely controllable. It’s more like a big MP5 than anything else.

My biggest concern: would SIG SAUER translate the mil spec masterpiece into a useful semi-automatic civilian model? They certainly started on the right foot . . ."


TexasProgresive

(12,148 posts)
10. non-rhetorical answer
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:58 PM
Jun 2016

It is named for Armorlite the company that 1st developed it for the military. The design was sold to Colt arms who issued the civilian version of the M-16 as the AR-15. So it is an Armolite Rifle 15 not assault or automatic rifle 15. This rifle was developed by Armorlite in the 60s well before the the term assault rifle was born in the 80s.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
23. Armalite rifle.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:23 PM
Jun 2016

I'm assuming the person who posted this with the aid of the internet is also aware of the existence of google.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. I think the marketeers who name gunz nowadays have a very good reason for using AR in the name.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jun 2016

Just like they use "tactical" and such in ads. It attacks those who think/find guns enhance their life.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
38. Yes, because it's the model name for the type of firearm.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:49 PM
Jun 2016

But whatever. Proceed to do some gold medal worthy mental gymnastics to deny it.


I find that guns do enhance my life, personally. All of my hobbies do. That's sort of the point. Nobody says "This thing is going to make my life crummier and I don't even want it. I NEED one!"

Also, I find great joy in knowing that owning an AR just flusters the hell out of busybody prohibitionists like SOME posters here. I can hear the frothing at the mouth clear over here in Afghanistan.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
39. No, it's used because yahoos want to shoot an "assault rifle." It make them feel powerful as one
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:53 PM
Jun 2016

mass shooter put it. Enjoy your gunz.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
43. Then why don't the maufactureres just call them assault rifles?
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:57 PM
Jun 2016

Oh, I will. Enjoy your righteous indignation and willful ignorance.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
54. Because there is a formal, real world definition of "assault rifle"
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jun 2016

and the semi-auto AR-15 style rifles don't meet the definition.

Instead, the AR-15 rifles are correctly classified as semi-auto carbines.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
44. I have no illusions of a future with music.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:58 PM
Jun 2016

Gave it the old college try as a kid. The results were...disappointing.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
36. I am personally in favor of restricting the sale of any weapon over 12 inches long that is fed
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:38 PM
Jun 2016

by a detachable magazine to only governmental organizations.

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