Americans fear a life of 'dead-end crap jobs with crap wages'

[applegrove]

Americans fear a life of 'dead-end crap jobs with crap wages'

by Heather Long at CNN Money

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/16/news/economy/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-us-election/index.html?iid=ob_article_footer

"SNIP..............


Jo-Ann was a child prodigy who went to college at age 14. She graduated and landed a coveted job at Citigroup.

Soon she was flying around the world leading meetings. Then she jumped to a management role at a financial printer. She was middle class, maybe even on her way to the upper middle class ... until the tech bubble burst. And September 11th hit.

The U.S. fell into a recession and companies cut back. In 2002, Jo-Ann was forced to train the Indian workers that would replace her.

After she was laid off, she struggled to find a good paying job. She melted down her savings and 401k. She got into the trap of working "dead-end crap jobs with crap wages," including a stint at Walmart.

Her life went from American Dream to Bust. Today she's in her mid-40s and makes $11 an hour processing payments at a financial firm despite being college educated.



..............SNIP"

[applegrove]

1. Computers are just going to take more of those good paying jobs away like bankers and medical

diagnosis and such. We need to fight now for the share of the pie that will go to the middle class, through wages and unions.

[DesertFlower]

10. speaking of computers the other night

microsoft downloaded windows 10 onto my computer without my permission. i had to call my tech guy to come over and help me with it.

[seabeckind]

18. There's an update that is added that preps for Win10.

You have to be vigilant and remove the change item from the list of updates to be applied.

Make sure you don't have the beast set for auto-update. Otherwise they'll shove it in whenever you happen to look away.

The number is: KB3035583. Whenever it shows up, unselect it from the list and hide it.

Good luck. They're sneaky.

[DesertFlower]

25. thanks. my tech guy helped me. said he

could remove it, but if i'm able to work with it i could leave it alone. so far i'm doing okay.

[seabeckind]

27. As long as the actual install of 10 wasn't done,

if you go to the list of installed updates, pick out the KB3035583 and uninstall it,

the nagware for 10 will go away.

No damage.

I had to do it a couple times on my wife's laptop. Since then I suggested that she let me look at it before she powers down.

[JDPriestly]

84. How can I removet the installed KB3035583.

I do not want Windows 10. My computer is slow enough as it is. Thanks if you know how.

[seabeckind]

99. Sorry for the late reply.

If you bring up the list of installed updates...

then go for some coffee and a danish,

by the time you get back it'll be done you can scan the list for that KB and uninstall it.

[They_Live]

96. And thank you also.

I have removed it, I think. I'll keep checking.

[redruddyred]

63. there's a reason they want you to install windows 10

it comes programmed with all sorts of spyware

[JDPriestly]

83. That is why I do not want it. Apparently they also added ad support to the Solitaire game.

That's just stupid. I like to play mindless games of Solitaire on my computer when I am listening to things that don't keep my hands busy.

How can I remove the KB3035583 update from my computer?

[redruddyred]

89. open the 'windows update' program

the uninstall list is not on the first window but there's a nonobvious hyperlink that you can click.

[They_Live]

95. Thank you!

I just did that and changed my update settings. Plus I hid that one after deselecting it so it won't install again when I power down.

[seabeckind]

100. Beware.... it will come back.

[They_Live]

104. I expect that it would...

It's on my little checklist of maintenance now.

[seabeckind]

16. Computer? Huh?

Skipped this part, did you?

"Jo-Ann was forced to train the Indian workers that would replace her"

Her job was outsourced. The company was cutting their labor cost, not automating her job. The job was still being done, just done somewhere else.

[applegrove]

17. Yes. I was adding computers and robots to the mix. They will also decimate the middle class.

[seabeckind]

22. Nonsense.

That's the next phase of the jobs aren't coming back.

It's corporate propaganda.

[applegrove]

23. I say it because we have to fight for unions and good wages. Right now.

[seabeckind]

26. Exactly. What's decimating the middle class has been going on for 30 years.

Corporate greed.

Profits over people.

[progressoid]

76. Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/17/technology-created-more-jobs-than-destroyed-140-years-data-census

Compensation for those jobs is a different story though.

[msongs]

2. americans prefer to buy cheap crap made overseas than to keeping other americans working ->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141414742

of course that does not cross the minds of those fearing dead end crap jobs with crap wages

[applegrove]

3. Soon it will be people in medicine and banking who lose their jobs. Hope this becomes an election

issue.

[redruddyred]

62. they already are

among other things, mris are now read in india

glad to agree with you on this impt issue, hillary supporter

[applegrove]

86. We have much in common Bernie supporter.

[redruddyred]

88. i like your candidate hillary supporter

i just like mine more

in a different election...

[applegrove]

91. I like your candidate Bernie supporter. I just think mine can 'get her done'. If Bernie was running

in Canada I would definitely vote for him.

[redruddyred]

92. we can be canada, hillary supporter

we just need the political will

[applegrove]

94. I think you are on your way. The pendulum is swinging back.

[DesertFlower]

7. i'd rather pay a few bucks more and keep the

jobs here.

[Hoyt]

28. Tend to agree. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases it's a bunch of dollars more.

I don't think most people will pay double for a TV or computer. If they were, people never would have started buying foreign goods. When I was young, the idea of buying a foreign car or appliance was almost unheard of, Then along came VWs, Datsuns, Samsungs, etc. We ain't going back and better figure out how to deal with it.

[Fumesucker]

40. VW and Datsun got popular because American small cars were crap the manufacturers didn't care about

Then the domestic big cars nosedived in quality too and people started buying the more reliable Japanese cars like Toyota.

Had a 72 Corolla back in 75, it was a tight fun little car to drive, sports car like and very reliable. A Vega of the same year was a piece of tinny junk with an engine that would wear out in 10K miles.

[me b zola]

90. Lets not forget the Pinto

[seabeckind]

20. Dishonest poll that was done by a corporate marketing consultancy. n/t

[Fast Walker 52]

64. do you doubt the conclusions?

I imagine there are plenty of people who would prefer to buy American, but it's not always or even usually possible.

[glowing]

33. Not necessarily, I think more people are more informed today..

However finding stuff that is made imAmerica is harder and harder to do... And those who do wish to buy American made products are often stuck in these jobs that pay very little; so they are stuck in the cycle of buying low priced crap that outsources more jobs... And we can see that it's a system that is eating itself. Look at Walmart, they made less profit last year than ever, though they are hardly going broke anytime soon.... And one of their biggest hits in losing money is from the poor/ working poor losing SNAP benefits. Now that the program is cutting more people off its role, they will likely see further decline.

We are kind of at a paradox. We cannot keep a capitalistic society as an economic model. First we have a finite amount of resources! 2nd many jobs are being replaced by technology taking over human hands. Now is truly the time that we could engage in the possibility of transforming what it means to be "wealthy" and how society takes care of one another.

Theoretically, if technology is making production easier, then we should have MORE free time to spend OUR time doing things that make us happy. We don't have to identify our lives by our jobs and what that job/ occupation means as far as personal finances and how we can live our lives. Happiness could possibly take a front seat to people's lives. Perhaps we can focus our education, communities, and lifestyles around the idea of being able to reach ones best potential and what value that can bring into one's personal life and for society.

Seriously, now is the time to think in a different manner. Embrace peace. Embrace being able to travel to one another's countries and learn different cultures. Embracing the idea that ALL of humanity has certain human/ humane rights like safe homes/ communities, access to nutritional foods, clean water, clean air, clean environments, and access to health care. No more slavery. No more women being treated like second class citizens. No ones religion more right than another's. Imagine all the people living in harmony?

There's no reason for 1% of the earth's population to have so much power and control over so many others... And for what? An extra 0 at the end of their bank account? For them to live opulently above the "peasants"? For them to cause so much human misery and strife? I think it's becoming more and more apparent that these wealthy people are sociopaths. They lack empathy or an ability to connect to morality or to other human beings. And I think some must get off on war snuff videos. Of the 99% killing one another for their greed. I can imagine Cheney enjoying watching torture videos; the more depraved, the more enjoyed.

[Phlem]

35. That's because most Americans don't make enough

money to buy decent stuff.

Plus the fact that we don't manufacture hardly anything here anymore.

Combine those with extremely unbalanced trade agreements and here we are.

It's not an accident.

[cannabis_flower]

58. Americans only

prefer cheap crap made overseas because they have crap jobs that pay crap!

[Eleanors38]

77. Hell, I buy cheap used crap from the thrift stores.

[Orrex]

101. It's hardly that simple

For many, there are only limited purchasing options, so that you can't choose between comparably priced domestic and imported items within the same price point. It's certainly not impossible, but it's not easy, either.

Rather than blaming the low income worker who's just trying to survive, you should direct your anger at the retailers who sell this stuff in overwhelming preference to American-made products.

[Bradical79]

103. Really. And in some cases the "cheap" foreign made crap isn't less expensive in the end

It's all about the profit margin. When switching from American and German made electrical tools at my store to Chinese, the prices weren't noticeably cheaper from what I recall.

[silvershadow]

4. I remember when the last Clinton administration pulled the stopper out of the economic bathtub. nt

[RadiationTherapy]

5. This is what happens when business profit divests from community.

When the focus is exclusively profit, then why would a business sacrifice even a dime of profit to keep a community healthy? Why pay a worker a single dime more than you must? Why pay for road or bridge or water infrastructure when your goal is to satisfy shareholders that live thousands of miles away?

[CrispyQ]

52. This. ^^^

Corporations should serve the communities & people they do business in, not the other way around, as it is now.


Proposed Constitutional Amendments
Amendments to revoke corporate constitutional “rights,” reverse Buckley v. Valeo, and establish a right to vote.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/proposed_constitutional_amendments/


Here's another great document from their site, although it needs updating.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/personhood_timeline.pdf

[RadiationTherapy]

54. Interesting and radical ideas. I would love to see something like this, though amendments are tough.

Thanks for sharing.

[CrispyQ]

55. Heads in the cloud thinking, I know.

We can't even get the ERA passed.

[RadiationTherapy]

56. Oh, and wouldjya look at the unratified states....hmmmmm.

http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

[CrispyQ]

59. They could have used the colors red & blue, almost.

A little surprised by New Mexico.

[forjusticethunders]

66. Question:

If we were to try to press to get it ratified starting today, do we have to do it all over again? Or can we start from the states that already ratified it?

Just adding on to that list, I could see VA, Illinois and Colorado vote for it depending on the year. But at the same time in a "do-over" scenario a lot of those states would NOT ratify.

[LiberalArkie]

85. Most of the yellow is explained by the "God expects women to be subservient to men"

crap. That is really the only reason.

[Triana]

6. Too bad they refuse to vote accordingly. n/t

[BillZBubb]

8. And then they vote for "free" trade and corporate candidates.

Yet can't see the connection.

[Nay]

12. Yep. I'm old and it happens every time. I've given up giving a shit, frankly.

I feel sorry for my kid and grandkids, but I did what I could. It was always an uphill battle to get others to even listen to reason.

[Phlem]

36. And the wheels on the bus go round and round,

round and round.

We've doing this at least since Bill, with all kinds of information available on the internet about this subject. Yet we still do it to ourselves.

And we're getting ready to do it again expecting different results. Another pro corporate politician plus the TPP.

*sigh*

It's insane.

[DesertFlower]

9. the american dream has been over

for many years. fortunately my late husband and i were able to achieve it. he was with IBM for 43 years and got a pension and a 401k, but he saw many over his co-workers jobs go to india. IBM and many big companies also bring people from india here. american express actually served indian food in their cafeteria.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

11. and hillary will fight to keep this system in place

so very sad that democrats support her

[appalachiablue]

21. Hill said she could run for the Senate in Punjab for all the work she does with

the huge H1-B companies there. I believe her.

[Fast Walker 52]

65. did she really say that? Wow.

Though I've no doubt she's done tons of work for places that utilizes the H1B system.

[appalachiablue]

70. For real and the documented truth.

2008. The Clintons have reaped significant financial rewards from their relationship with the Indian community, both in their personal finances and Hillary’s campaign fundraising. Hillary Clinton, who is the co-chair of the Senate India Caucus, has drawn criticism from anti-offshoring groups for her vocal support of Indian business and unwillingness to protect American jobs. Bill Clinton has invested tens of thousands of dollars in an Indian bill payment company, while Hillary Clinton has taken tens of thousands from companies that outsource jobs to India.
>Workers who have been laid off in upstate New York might not think that her recent joke that she could be elected to the Senate seat in Punjab is that funny.

PERSONAL HOLDINGS
2006: Bill Clinton Invested Tens of Thousands In An Indian Bill Payment Company. According to Hillary Clinton’s personal financial disclosure form, as part his ownership of WJC Investments, LP LLC, Bill Clinton held between $15,001 and $50,000 worth of stock in Easy Bill Limited, an Indian company. According to the company’s website, “Functioning as a one-stop bill payment shop, Easy Bill facilitates payment of utility bills as well as recharging of pre-paid mobile connections at a place the consumer is already familiar and comfortable with the neighbourhood store.” In addition to providing terminals throughout India where customers may pay their bills, the company also maintains a call center described as “a dedicated response centre for efficient customer service.”
Hillary Clinton 2006 Financial Disclosure Report, http://www.easybillindia.com /

2/05: On India Trip, Clinton Allayed India’s Fears That Outsourcing Would End.
The India Review wrote, “Senator Clinton allayed apprehensions in India that there would be a bar on outsourcing. ‘There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue,” she said. (India Review, 4/05, accessed, 6/7/07)

*Sen. Clinton (D-Punjab) Joked That She Was Senator From The Punjab Region In India.
“At the fundraiser hosted by Dr Rajwant Singh at his Potomac, Maryland, home, and which raised nearly $50,000 for her re-election campaign, *Clinton began by joking that, ‘'I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily,’ after being introduced by Singh as the Senator not only from New York but also Punjab.” (India Abroad, 3/17/06)
These Excerpts are from: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280162795
*And if you type in 'Clinton Senator from Punjab" the DU search bar will show more posts on this subject.



Senator Hillary Clinton and Dr. Rajwant Singh at the White House.

[Dont call me Shirley]

13. Headline Rewrite: Americans LIVE a life of 'dead end crap jobs with crap wages'

[milestogo]

43. + a brazillion

[Rex]

14. Welcome to the New World Order.

Just remember, Congress allowed this country to get this way. They never did one dam thing to stop us from becoming a plutocracy.

[appalachiablue]

24. A corrupt, lobbyist $ bought Congress. 'The Banks frankly own the place' Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL)2009

[Oldenuff]

15. and Hillarys suport of the TPP will help how?

Seriously.If people want to improve their lot in life...Hillary is the wrong choice.


If anyone really believes that she won't turn and support TPP after she is elected,well golly...get a grip people.

Bernie is the ONLY candidate that has actually stood up for middle class Americans.This "other" candidate only stands up for corporations.

[Iris]

19. Fear it? We're living it.

If Jo-Ann is in her mid-40s and making $11/hr, she's probably stuck there.

[jtuck004]

30. "she's probably stuck there." Probably won't be able to keep it together on that. Likely will be

fired or lose the job, and face ever worsening wages and poverty.

This might be the best it will ever be, and maybe not for very long. Same for all of us.

[Iris]

38. You're right and it's horrible. n/t

[Eleanors38]

78. Starting your own bizness is like going hippy: you are scared for months, then...

...you make the jump.

There is no guarantee you will succeed, but it may be the only option. I started a sole-proprietorship that worked well for 15 years. Saved $, lived frugally, bought a house during the S&L slump, and managed to make it to SS age. Can't recommend it pro forma, but it is the life preserver of choice. Insurance, IRA, clearing mortgages, buying used cars and clothes -- it's all on you. But it can work.

It ain't good social policy, but it ain't bad.

[jtuck004]

29. lol. Not as much as they fear changing it. n/t

[Skittles]

31. "management role at a financial printer"

what does that even mean?

[Adrahil]

45. Financial printing used to be a huge business.

They printed thousands and thousands of pages of financial statements, compliance forms, prospectus', quarterly reports (sent in the thousands to share holders) and statements.

In the late 90's, they began to transition to electronic formats and the industry lost about 90% of its jobs by 2010.

She picked the wrong industry to become an expert in. It's like she became a horse shoe executive in 1910.

[Marty McGraw]

61. spot on analogy

( '-')

[Skittles]

72. ok thanks

I had never heard that

[HuckleB]

32. All people who know privilege fear the loss of it.

The economy was tanking badly well before 9/11. I remember visiting with friends who had. Even recently laid off, for much of that year. I was headed to grad school from a stable job, so I was lucky.

Still... I have regular nightmares about losing my work life.

And then I remember growing up, digging ditches, washing dishes, hauling block, bussing tables, framing houses, waiting tables, doing finishing work, tending bar... And I have to wonder if part of the problem is our perspective of what makes a "dead end job."

It's the wages that matter. We should not look at any job as "dead end."

[Orrex]

37. It's a privilege not to be stuck in a dead end job

A dead-end job is when you can't afford to quit or take a pay cut, you can't advance in your current job, and you are unable to obtain a new one.

I suspect that this is terribly commonplace, in fact.

[Skittles]

73. OR

now it has become where you do not try to make a lateral or upwards move because you fear being the "low man on the totem pole" when the layoffs come, usually when job positions are being pimped offshore

[tclambert]

34. Hey, just start a business, even if you have to borrow $20,000 from your parents.

Just like Romney said:

http://www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/romney-tells-students-borrow-money

Oh, yeah, that Jimmy John guy borrowed $20,000 (or maybe $25,000) in 1983. So it might be around $50,000 today. Or maybe your father can make you a small loan of around $1,000,000. Better, he could leave you $200 million when he dies. The real secret to great financial success is simply choosing the right parents.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

42. Provided your parents are well off enough to loan you $20,000.

I know most people's parents couldn't afford that.

[Adrahil]

46. Adjust your sarcasm meter.... ;)

[Skittles]

75. i gotta tell ya

that's a very telling statement right there

[HughBeaumont]

47. Either fall out of the right womb or start hoarding cash when you're in your teens.

You know, because EVERYone can do that.

Oh, and every decision you make has to be the CORRECT one. Life landmines spell financial disaster in the 21st century.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. "went to college at age 14", is this a good thing?

Ok, maybe she got a degree at an early age. Her intellectual development may be superb. But how does this affect social and emotional development, skipping high school, probably not fitting in much at college.

This almost seems like a form of abuse.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

44. Yeah, I don't think skipping so many grade happens all that much

just because it ignores the child social and emotional development. Maybe skipping one grade is OK, but too many and the kid is going to school with kids that are far beyond them in maturity. Nothing says the kid can't work on more advanced material and stay in a grade with kids close to their own age. Why should the smart kids be forced to grow up so quickly? I don't think it is good for them.

[forjusticethunders]

68. I skipped a grade

I think that honestly derailed me in a lot of ways. I went from a straight A student to a A/B/C level student and I do feel being a year ahead of where I "should" have been had a lot to do with it.

[arikara]

87. Me too

I was a november kid so was already younger and smaller than most in my class then I skipped grade 5. It was a big mistake, I would never recommend it.

[Warpy]

81. Didn't seem to hurt my parents

although my mother said her high school prom was tough. Once they'd gotten out of the teen years, which are rough for nearly all of us, they were fine.

They wanted to spare me from being a freak in high school. It didn't work, I was with the appropriate age group, but I was still a freak.

[former9thward]

98. Yeah, being stuck in brain dead high school courses for 4 years

is so good for "social and emotional development".

[ileus]

41. What do they think "service" industry jobs are?

Everyone can't be a manager...


Crap jobs will be crap jobs no matter what the pay is.

[ladyVet]

48. I've read a couple of your threads this morning.

I think you're supporting the wrong candidate. Bless your heart.

[ret5hd]

53. I had the same thought.

[Octafish]

49. Like Walmart.

Anti union, too.

[HughBeaumont]

50. "I believe the children are our future, teach them well and "PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

Teach them well and give them a decent job market to look forward to . . . . whether it's trades or white collar work.

Destroying STEM and Manufacturing opportunities because you want a 13th car or a 5th home doesn't bode well for your precious Trapitalism's future, JAMIE.

Stagnating your potential market's wages isn't going to help them buy your $35,000 vehicle, ELON.

Can you hear the frustration in my frigging voice? SOD this nonsense and pay workers more. ALL of them. You want us to buy, pay us more.

[The2ndWheel]

51. Americans aren't as important as we think we are

Just as white men aren't as needed in America, Americans in general aren't as needed around the world.

[PatrynXX]

57. which is why so many of us are fighting for a voice like Bernie

one that wants to go forward not in reverse. Reverse is almost always bad unless it's a war you can't win.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. I'm sure she will be fine when the minimum wage goes up to $12 an hour.

[Fast Walker 52]

67. any Hillary supporters want to chime in here?

[Skittles]

74. or Obama supporters?

love how Hilary gets all the blame

[Initech]

69. Our corporate masters won't be happy until they're living on Elysium.

[shireen]

71. another good reason for single-payer health care

Many people take jobs that are not suited for them because of health insurance benefits available at mid-size and large businesses.

If people know that their access to good healthcare is safe, the economy will dramatically improve. You'll see more entrepreneurs striking out on their own after being shackled to bad jobs that they tolerated because of medical insurance benefits. Large employers won't be weighed down by health benefit costs for their employees, and hopefully that will result in more pay and expansion to create more jobs. No one will have to suffer financial hardship because of a health crisis.

Health care is a big deal. If people know that they will never lose access to good medical treatment, they will be happier. Happiness encourages positive attributes like creativity, motivation and satisfaction. It's critical to restoring a strong middle-class.

We need more humanity in our economy.

[Eleanors38]

79. Ri-i-i-ight on the $. Damn corps should KNOW this if they want the rabble at bay...

...but their sense of moral ideology won't allow a glimmer of common sense.

[treestar]

80. Then there are the people who would love to come here

to take those jobs.

[Blue_Tires]

82. too late in my case...

[ymetca]

93. Guaranteed Income

is really the only solution. The sooner we all stop working the better off we'll all be. We need to turn our task-masters' doublespeak on it's head --we don't want "jobs". We want universal unemployment.

Quit trying to resurrect labor unions. Instead, we should start forming leisure unions.

The whole point of getting machines to do all the nitty gritty stuff is so that we don't have to work anymore. Let's stop defending work as some kind of noble thing. It isn't. Nobody should "respect" work, anymore than they "respect" money. They're just tools. A means to an end. And that end is leisure time.

[closeupready]

97. I didn't join DU upon discovery. Rather, I knew a woman

whose life resembled Jo-Ann's - she wasn't in financial printing, but it was a specialized business service, which these days is probably offshored. Don't want to get more specific than that.

One day, our lives diverged, and our relationship ended. Not in a tragic way, just in the way that people move on, as they age.

She was very liberal and very brilliant, and we would talk for HOURS on the telephone (landline, back then) just about life and politics, travel, work, our backgrounds ... everything. When our friendship ended, I really MISSED those talks.

THAT is when I realized that DU could - in theory - substitute for those conversations. It worked well as a substitute, and still does most of the time.

Long-winded way of getting to my point, that at one time, my friend was hauling in serious money, and then later in life when she failed to find similar work in that field, ended up working as a contract employee, making LESS than I did.

For some reason, I know she's okay, but there are MILLIONS of people like her who are struggling, living hand-to-mouth. It frightens me.

[Demonaut]

102. she voted for "w"