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Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:11 AM

Zimmerman's passport and money clarification, please.

I am confused and trying to get something straight in my head.

Bond was revoked and Z turned himself in because he lied about a second passport and lots of extra money.

Z tells his wife, to keep the passport safely hidden. They speak in code regarding the money.

On another thread, the posters mention that while in jail everyone should have known that their calls are being monitored, so even code speak is incredibly stupid.

I thought Z was out on bail. So when was this conversation from jail recorded?0

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Reply Zimmerman's passport and money clarification, please. (Original post)
Sheepshank Jun 2012 OP
uponit7771 Jun 2012 #1
Sheepshank Jun 2012 #3
JustAnotherGen Jun 2012 #2
Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #5
rocktivity Jun 2012 #15
Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #26
Jumping John Jun 2012 #6
rocktivity Jun 2012 #9
former9thward Jun 2012 #10
vaberella Jun 2012 #28
former9thward Jun 2012 #31
vaberella Jun 2012 #32
librechik Jun 2012 #19
former9thward Jun 2012 #24
Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #4
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2012 #7
Sheepshank Jun 2012 #11
msanthrope Jun 2012 #14
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2012 #16
Life Long Dem Jun 2012 #8
rocktivity Jun 2012 #13
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2012 #18
rocktivity Jun 2012 #25
EFerrari Jun 2012 #17
rocktivity Jun 2012 #20
pokerfan Jun 2012 #22
Life Long Dem Jun 2012 #23
vaberella Jun 2012 #29
magical thyme Jun 2012 #12
rocktivity Jun 2012 #21
vaberella Jun 2012 #30
bettyellen Jun 2012 #33
vaberella Jun 2012 #27

Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:12 AM

1. Most likely while he was in jail and they're just getting around to decoding them...

...Zman seems to be a little stupid

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:19 AM

3. Seems like if they are only now getting around to decoding the conversation

that occurred when he was first arrested....then something is pretty wrong with that part of the incarceration process. Clearly, if the conversation occurred when he was first arrested, it should have come out during the bond hearing, no?

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:12 AM

2. I'm behind on this issue too

A bit confused on the passport thing.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:30 AM

5. Zimmerman had 2

passport because he claimed he had lost the original, which expired at the end of May 2012. He was issued a replacement passport that is good through May 2014. He turned in the one about to expire and kept the one that in still current. Stupid move in this age of computers.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:13 PM

15. But did he turn in that first passport by accident -- or on purpose?

Last edited Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

And if he found the old passport after receiving the new one, why didn't he get RID of the old one -- because he promptly lost the new one, or because it was still valid? Well, lucky for him that found the new one again, and turned it in. It's his lawyer's fault for not thinking that it wasn't important...


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:51 PM

26. I doubt the old one was ever lost.

Remember he's had a few "scuffles" with the law before this. I'm sure he never told his lawyer about the new passport. His lawyer would have told him to turn in both passports. The lawyer will have some 'splaining to do to the judge over this. The lawyer would have known that his records were going to be checked once the passport was in custody.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:30 AM

6. Zimmerman said that he had 'lost' his passport. He meant that he lost it because

 

it had expired. He turned over the expired passport to the court

But he had another valid passport that he told his wife to keep 'well hidden'.

He lied. For what reason? IMHO it ssems that he thought he could flee later..

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Response to Jumping John (Reply #6)


Response to Jumping John (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:43 AM

10. When he turned over the first passport it was not expired.

Time has passed and it is expired now. No matter what he told his wife the second passport ended up with his lawyer. His lawyer told the court he forgot to turn it in. The judge accepted the lawyer's explanation and that is not an issue now. The money is the issue now. As far as fleeing law enforcement have said Zimmerman has cooperated with them from the very beginning and they have always known of his whereabouts. He has shown no sign of "fleeing" .

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Response to former9thward (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:02 PM

28. Expired or not that is irrevelant.

The passport was automatically null and void when said to be lost. He should have automatically known to given in his second passport. The nonsense statement by the defence lawyer doesn't ring true even if he did say it was false. Shit like that makes the defence lawyer look ridiculously incompetent as a lawyer that he would fuck up the life of his client that way. But regardless if he took the blame Zimmerman holds the higher accountability because he should have known to surrender the VALID passport since the first passport doesn't count when lost. That's like giving in an old credit card when you had a new one sent and activated. The original is worthless. You know the second one is the right one to hand in---that says to me you're playing games with the court.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #28)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:23 PM

31. You are making a lot of assumptions.

Of course you are not alone. Assumptions rather than facts are the rule in this case. You are saying that a defense lawyer committed an breach of court ethics and lied to the court. That is a disbarable offense. In my experience I have never seen a lawyer in his right mind commit a disbarable offense in order to protect the bail of a client. Maybe your experience differs.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 10:58 PM

32. I have issues that a supposedly competent lawyer makes a mistake like that.

I think I have a right to that, don't I. Not to mention, it's irrelevant what he even says since it would seem that in the 'coded' messages of Zimmerman to his wife they mention the second passport and it's location. Making me doubt this lawyer even more.

In the conversations, prosecutors said, Zimmerman and his wife also cryptically talk about his second passport in a safety deposit box they shared.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183#.T810yrWYSbI

I don't think I have made too many assumptions when this account is stated--jail conversations before bond date about the passport and so they knew. But we can give a pass on this since O'Mara decided he was at fault. However, I have my own issues with a lawyer I "assumed" to be competent making such a massive mistake that would lead to my re-imprisonment, since this situation would have been seen as a big problem without the money issue.

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Response to Jumping John (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:32 PM

19. I read that he applied for another passport quite recently because the other was "lost"

and that recent transaction came to light. The money was the result of contributions to his website which he did not report. And that also was revealed, due to jail conversations w wife.

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Response to librechik (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 03:07 PM

24. You read something incorrect.

He lost his passport in March, 2004. A couple weeks later he applied and received a new one later in March, 2004. He then found the old one so he has had two passports sitting around since then. The first one expired in 2012 and the second in 2014.

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:27 AM

4. Zimmerman was in jail

for about 12 days....from his arrest and his release on bail. i hope they keep him there through the trial.

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:32 AM

7. The "code taliking" ...

was recorded in the 11 day period between his April 12th arrest and the April 23rd bond hearing.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:43 AM

11. So this all occurred prior to the 4/23/12 bond hearing?

It's taken the incarceration/jail system <this> long to go over the recordings and act on that information?

Sheesh!

Seems to me, in a pretty high profile case like this, the info would have been part of the bond hearing!

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:05 PM

14. The prosecutor might have chosen not to bring it forth at the bond hearing.

It's entirely possible they knew before the bond hearing, but chose to let it play out, thereby possibly further implicating Zim, and wifey, and who knows who else....

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:21 PM

16. That is my thought, as well.

It, further, paints zimmerman as untrustworthy.

And since all "we" (the court) has is zimmerman's "word" that he acted in self-defense, the prosecution will have to call into question zimmerman's truthfulness in order to "prove" that he did not act in self-defense.

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:40 AM

8. His lawyer also said this

 

Lester appeared to accept the explanation from Zimmerman's lawyer that his client had given him the second passport, and the lawyer simply forgot to hand it over to authorities until Friday.

skip...

O'Mara added that he hoped the judge's revocation of bond would be temporary. "We're going to have a conversation with the judge to try to explain it away. Hopefully, that will be worthwhile and we're going to get back out on bond.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31139723/detail.html


I think he is full of shit, but the judge needs to consider this.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:01 PM

13. Of course he's full of it -- the bottom line is that Zimmerman KNEW he had two valid passports

and said nothing. And if it was a subject of discussion on the jailhouse tapes, the judge has some reconsidering to do.


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:27 PM

18. Actually ...

If O'Mara had both passports (the valid one AND the expired one), but failed to turn over the valid, turning over the expired one, instead ... the judge will likely rule favorably for zimmerman on this issue, absent some evidence of an intentional withholding by the attorney. Courts try really hard not to hold the accused responsible for the neglience of their attorneys (on relatively small matters). After all, clients should be able to rely on the administrative actions of their attorneys.

But the under-reporting of assets ... that's a whole 'nother matter.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:43 PM

25. Well, which of these scenarios sound more realistic?

Last edited Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:29 PM - Edit history (13)

Based on the bail revocation motion:

4/17: From Post #21:
In a prison conversation, he said, "I think my passport in is that bag"; she said, "I have one for you in safety deposit box"; and he said, "Okay, you hold onto that."

4/20: First passport (expiration May 2012) turned over to the court.

5/1 (approximately): Zimmerman and wife find second passport (valid through May 2014) while cleaning house, and give it to O'Mara.

6/1: Bail revocation motion filed. Bail revocation hearing. O'Mara says he has had the second passport for about a month, but forgot to turn it in. He turns it over to the court.

6/1: Bail revocation motion filed. O'Mara reads in the motion that Zimmerman has a second passport, plus "prison talk" which leaves the impression that it's being concealed deliberately. O'Mara contacts Zimmerman and shrieks, "GET THAT PASSPORT OVER HERE RIGHT THE !!#&#*%$ NOW!!!" O'Mara turns in passport at revocation hearing, and takes the rap in an effort to preserve Zimmerman's credibility.



rocktivity

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:24 PM

17. If it's true, he could be cited for contempt. So he better hope the judge thinks it's bs, too. n/t

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #17)


Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 01:02 PM

22. I forgot. Two simple words.

You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. "Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?" First.. get a million dollars. Now.. you say, "Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, 'You.. have never paid taxes'?" Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: "I forgot!" How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don't say "I forgot?" Let's say you're on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, "I forgot armed robbery was illegal." Let's suppose he says back to you, "You have committed a foul crime. you have stolen hundreds and thousands of dollars from people at random, and you say, 'I forgot'?" Two simple words: Excuuuuuse me!!"

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 02:07 PM

23. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse in a court of law.

 

The lawyer is saying he made a mistake, though he is not ignorant of the law. Hard to hold a defendant negligible when (or I should say "if") your attorney screwed things up.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:04 PM

29. I agree. But I do not believe the lawyers excuse AT ALL!n/t

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:48 AM

12. it was recorded in jail before out on bail

But I'm going to venture here that although the calls are recorded doesn't mean they are monitored realtime. The tapes had to be turned over to the DAs office at some point, but that doesn't mean same day or the next day.

First, somebody had to go back and listen to them and realize that they were speaking in code.

The were talking dollars and hundreds of dollars, meaning thousands. So the significance of those dollars didn't necessarily jump out, since they were moving smaller amounts of money around different accounts. Somebody had to recognize a specific amount discussed matching a specific amount in one account or another. From what I have read, it seems to be the number 155 that jumped out. That at some point in reviewing their paypal account, there was a total of $155,000.

As you work your way through processes, time happens. The processes can seem convoluted and wasteful, but if any one person handling potential evidence breaks a rule, it violates the "chain of evidence," weakening or even disallowing it. Making sure all t's are crossed and i's dotted slows things down.

I get the feeling this prosecutor is moving slowly, but surely.

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:43 PM

21. Here's where you can find a copy of the actual motion

Last edited Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:47 AM - Edit history (5)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/95593851/State-v-Zimmerman-Motion-to-revoke-bond (PDF)

They turned in the older passport on 4/20/12. Three days earlier, in a prison conversation, he said, "I think my passport in is that bag"; she said, "I have one for you in safety deposit box"; and he said, "Okay, you hold onto that."

Why didn't she say, "Okay, I'll get it" or even "No -- actually, it's in the safety deposit box"? Why didn't he say, "Well, give it to the lawyer" or even "Give them both to the lawyer"? I think he intended to turn in the new passport and use the old one to flee with -- it was valid for another five weeks, the shenannigans with money don't help, and he would be traveling one way!


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:06 PM

30. Which paints O'Mara as a liar. And I have to wonder WHY he lied. n/t

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 5, 2012, 01:37 AM

33. Zimmerman Fed Exed the passport along with the check

For the money he had in the Paypal account. After he took 50k off the top for himself. He had just told his lawyer how (very) much money was in there. At which point I'm guessing the lawyer asked - is there anything else that was misrepresented at the hearing? And bingo, out comes the newer still valid passport.
So they are mailed together. But the lawyer doesnt mention it, and keeps it in his drawer. probably thinking he doesn't need this crap because he knows he's going to have to deal with the other lies at the next hearing. So the morning of the hearing, he's informed they want to know about the passport. And he tells them, oops- it's been in my drawer for a month.
I don't buy it. And for three days there GZ had 150k and a passport no one knew he had. If it weren't for the monitoring I am sure he would have bolted.

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Response to Sheepshank (Original post)

Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:58 PM

27. He turned himself in for about 4-7 days before his Bond hearing.

During that time in prison while he was being watched he had visits from his wife. And because he knew his calls were being monitored he spoke in code with his wife about the extra cash and passport.

In regards to the money. During the time he had no surrendered himself to the police and was in hiding, the firs time. Zimmerman had opened up a website to garner funds to support his innocence and of course legal fees. At that site's paypal account a good number of freaks in the world with spare cash decided to waste their money in donating to his 'legal' fund. But at this time O'Mara and several other lawyers were working for him pro bono because he had no funds or said he had no funds. Not to mention in Florida or most bail prices are based on your income. So because he never told the courts about the paypal accounts and neither his lawyer who worked pro bono about the account the bond was posted low, which he was able to pay. When this came to light---and the passport thing---he was deemed lying to the court and also a flight risk.

When had to surrender his American passport, he gave an old one he had claimed he lost back in 2004. Apparently he had found that passport, but he had been given a new passport in replacement of the old one. The old one was void automatically. But the secondary replacement one was kept apparently in a safe by him. But then the story of the passport gets changed and while the first passport was handed in Zimmerman did surrender his secondary passport to O'Mara---who apparently "forgot" to hand in the passport. But that makes no sense to me. Why would a well known and high profile lawyer who used to be a prosecutor and now a defense lawyer of an also EXTREMELY high profile case conveniently "forget" to hand in such an importance piece of item that could get his client stuck in prison. That says to me O'Mara lied.

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