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applegrove

(118,600 posts)
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:20 PM Feb 2016

It Might Not Be So Easy to Rally Around Rubio

It Might Not Be So Easy to Rally Around Rubio

By Margaret Talbot at the New Yorker

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/it-might-not-be-so-easy-to-rally-around-rubio

"SNIP............


One thing Rubio is not, however, is moderate, or even close to it. And to the extent that far-right politics are actually off-putting to voters in a general election—to Democrats but also independents and younger voters, who are instinctually liberal on social issues—that poses a bit of a problem for the scenario in which Rubio is the savior of reason and the G.O.P. He ran for his Senate seat in 2010 with Tea Party support. He is firmly opposed to same-sex marriage and to abortion, with no exception for cases of rape or incest or the health of the mother—only for the mother’s life. In an article in National Review, in which Jim Geraghty lays out the case that “Marco Rubio Is Plenty Conservative,” he quotes Rubio in the first Republican debate: “Future generations will look back at this history of our country and call us barbarians for murdering millions of babies who we never gave them a chance to live.”

Rubio has a perfect record from the N.R.A. and a lifetime rating of ninety-eight per cent from the American Conservative Union. He is opposed to raising the minimum wage. As Geraghty notes, he “contends the legislative efforts to fight climate change are economically self-destructive and expresses skepticism that human behavior is driving climate change.”

The one issue on which Rubio showed some bipartisan flexibility was immigration: in 2013, he worked with the so-called Gang of Eight group of senators on an immigration-reform bill that would have opened a path to citizenship for the undocumented. But, during the Presidential campaign, Rubio has renounced his support for such policies. His new partisans likely believe that Rubio’s ethnic identity will neutralize his defection from immigration reform, and win Latino voters over. But that seems like wishful thinking, too—especially after a Republican primary campaign in which the tone of anti-immigration rhetoric has been so harsh. It’s true that Latino voters care about issues besides immigration: in polls, they often rank education or the economy before it as a top priority. But, on those issues, they are generally more in line with Democratic values. (Latinos support a bigger role for government, for example.) In a dispatch last month from Nevada, one of the swing states where Latino votes may be especially important, Mary Jordan, of the Washington Post, spent two days interviewing Mexican-Americans in Las Vegas and could not find a single person who planned to vote for Rubio or Cruz. “Rubio says things that are not good for Mexicans,” a sixty-two-year-old retired casino housekeeper named Maria Herrera told her. “I would never vote for him just because he’s Latino.”

Telling moderate Republicans that Rubio is the obvious, joyous choice for them means asking them to ignore who Rubio is—or, perhaps, to abandon their notions of moderation. What Rubio’s anointment as the establishment candidate really shows is how far rightward the Republican Party has moved. And, maybe most striking of all, in his case, how intolerant it has become on immigration. In 1984, in a Presidential debate with Walter Mondale, Ronald Reagan said the following: “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.” The last comprehensive immigration-reform bill that granted such amnesty to undocumented immigrants—nearly three million of them—was in 1986. Reagan signed it.



.............SNIP"
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It Might Not Be So Easy to Rally Around Rubio (Original Post) applegrove Feb 2016 OP
Lindsay Graham was on TV yesterday saying that Rubio can't win because he Renew Deal Feb 2016 #1
I hate to agree with anything Lindsay Graham says, but red dog 1 Feb 2016 #21
"Rubio’s ethnic identity will... win Latino voters over." KamaAina Feb 2016 #2
Well said. I've never heard Rubio utter a word in Spanish flamingdem Feb 2016 #28
He has done several interviews in Spanish oberliner Feb 2016 #39
Latino voters align themselves with T-Bag voters? I doubt it. NoMoreRepugs Feb 2016 #3
The day of the "moderate" Republican is long gone Major Nikon Feb 2016 #4
Actual positions vs their PERCEPTION Cosmocat Feb 2016 #12
I don't think Rubio is more dangerous Major Nikon Feb 2016 #13
This is an absolute repeat of 99 Cosmocat Feb 2016 #17
I have to disagree with some of your comments... madinmaryland Feb 2016 #32
I didnt post Cosmocat Feb 2016 #33
Oh come on. You made no points in your post. Go read it again... madinmaryland Feb 2016 #34
Rubio has been an unknown - coasting along - candidate - the target is now on his back Justice Feb 2016 #15
primary vs general Cosmocat Feb 2016 #16
My point is he won't make it to the general - he will be done in the primary Justice Feb 2016 #18
maybe Cosmocat Feb 2016 #19
My worries are similar. MBS Feb 2016 #25
In a one-on-one debate, Sanders will hand Rubio his ass and make him KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #35
And that wont matter Cosmocat Feb 2016 #37
Even should the moderators throw Rubio exclusively softballs, I don't believe KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #38
Look Cosmocat Feb 2016 #42
I live in a state that elected Shwarze-Nazi twice as governor, so I'm well KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #43
Jon Huntsman was the last moderate Republican. leftofcool Feb 2016 #26
Moderate republicons became conservative Democrats after the Clintonian 3rd-Way takeover Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #27
Then the days of Republicans winning the White House are also gone oberliner Feb 2016 #40
That day is certainly coming, if it's not already upon us Major Nikon Feb 2016 #41
Jeb is going to hang around hoping to be the best of the bad choices. FLPanhandle Feb 2016 #5
^^^ This is my thinking, too. Gumboot Feb 2016 #36
Typical stupid Republicans treestar Feb 2016 #6
His positions on these things literally dont matter one bit Cosmocat Feb 2016 #7
I am pretty concerned about him right now, and I think he is in a good position re: the nomination stevenleser Feb 2016 #9
Oh, yeah Cosmocat Feb 2016 #10
He needs to be asked about zika greymattermom Feb 2016 #8
Exactly. Rubio seems to function fine with an underdeveloped brain. FSogol Feb 2016 #14
Finding moderate Republicans is the 21st century snipe hunt Blue_Adept Feb 2016 #11
This is why I don't understand liberals bashing Trump. We should be rooting for him. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #20
Good point! red dog 1 Feb 2016 #22
But at the very least, we know he's lying about social issues. Trump is very much the New York Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #24
I hope you're right. red dog 1 Feb 2016 #30
Indeed! That's the goal. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #47
I agree with you about Trump Jim Beard Feb 2016 #45
K&R red dog 1 Feb 2016 #23
I have always said Trump and Cruz have a role to play this primary season... CincyDem Feb 2016 #29
I agree with you somewhat, Trump & Cruz could well become "the blockers" red dog 1 Feb 2016 #31
Maybe we should convince Trump to run as a third party candidate! IronLionZion Feb 2016 #44
Just cross over in the states that allow it. Jim Beard Feb 2016 #46
I suspect Rubio blew it big time on 2/6/16 FrenchieCat Feb 2016 #48

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
1. Lindsay Graham was on TV yesterday saying that Rubio can't win because he
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:23 PM
Feb 2016

Wants women to have the rapists baby.

red dog 1

(27,792 posts)
21. I hate to agree with anything Lindsay Graham says, but
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 05:48 PM
Feb 2016

in this case, I hope he's right (that Rubio can't win).

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
2. "Rubio’s ethnic identity will... win Latino voters over."
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:25 PM
Feb 2016

Not so fast. Not all Latinos are created equal. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans, Cubans and more are quite distinct. Even the Spanish they speak is at least as distinct from one another as, say, a New England accent is from a Southern drawl. Rubio is Cuban, and Cubans are politically relevant in only two states: Florida and New Jersey. Being Cuban helps him about as much with Mexican and other non-Cuban Latino voters about as much Jeb! being a WASP helps him in heavily Scandinavian Minnesota.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
28. Well said. I've never heard Rubio utter a word in Spanish
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 06:12 PM
Feb 2016

He's really trying to keep that part of his identity neatly stored but he'll pull it out to win Florida. Que bola Miami!

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
39. He has done several interviews in Spanish
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:19 AM
Feb 2016

He has had a few lengthy conversations in Spanish with reporters at Univision.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,404 posts)
3. Latino voters align themselves with T-Bag voters? I doubt it.
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 01:37 PM
Feb 2016

you don't see many Latino's at a T-Bag event do u??

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
4. The day of the "moderate" Republican is long gone
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 08:10 PM
Feb 2016

In order to become even remotely viable, McCain had to corral a running mate that was so far into batshit crazy land it was pathetic and he still lost.

The perennial problem the GOP has is they MUST court the extreme right simply to remain viable as a party and when they do so they alienate anyone in the middle who are the people who actually control presidential elections. This also will hurt all the down-ballot candidates. That's why the GOP establishment is so freaked out right now. They can see their party swirling the bowl. Regardless of whether Trump, Rubio, or Cruz wins, they will all be revealed as exactly what they are which is far afield of mainstream America.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
12. Actual positions vs their PERCEPTION
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:47 AM
Feb 2016

This is why Marco Rubio is so incredibly dangerous as a GE election candidate ...

Yes, his POSITIONS are very much aligned with hard right politics.

But, while Cruz has out and out, publicly courted the extreme right, Rubio has very deftly maintained a "moderate" and, even worse, UPBEAT tone.

His "veneer" is youthful and positive. He is taller and good looking.

This country is dumb as shit, sorry to say.

Geeks like us vote issues, but the overwhelming majority of voters don't put even the first THOUGHT into it, it is all gut, feel, the superficial.

SO ... GWB had the same exact positions on the "issues" as Rubio, but was deft enough to never really stake those flags, babbling about "compassionate conservatism," while winking at the evangilicals. Reagen horrible on the issues, but babbled about "morning in america."

AND, the dynamics are the same as they were for those two Republicans piling on a sitting democratic president.

Carter was being hammered because of the economic downturn and the Iran Hostage situation. So, while they effectively destroyed him, Reagen "gave hope" with the shinning house on a hill ...

The dynamics now are EXACTLY like they were leading up to Jr ...

The republicans having spent 8 years of a hissy fit over a democratic president (Clinton/BHO) so even though the country was in reality better off, the country has been inundated by so much hatred and vile, associated with the DEMOCRATIC president, Jr comes rolling in as "the guy you would like to have a beer with" and basically to shut republicans the fuck up, the country gave him POTUS.

And, Rubio is easier to pretty up than Jr. who is a literal moron.

Rubio isn't going to be "revealed" for shit.

Republicans will proclaim he is the second coming of St. Reagen and their media whores will treat Rubio like teenage girls fainting in hormonal passion over the Beatles ...

Hillary or Bernie, he would win by a landslide ...

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
13. I don't think Rubio is more dangerous
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:15 AM
Feb 2016

For one thing, his changing position on immigration will torpedo any chance he might have the same as it did for McCain and his own rivals are doing all the heavy lifting as far as perception goes.

Demographics are working against the GOP. The only chance they have to win is to motivate all the bigots to vote, and the bigots just aren't going to show up at the polls for a candidate they think is going to give the brown people "amnesty".

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
17. This is an absolute repeat of 99
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 01:55 PM
Feb 2016

All Gore was a decent man, super experienced, intelligent and capable.

We elected a moron.

Whatever demographics are changing, this country only gets more stupid by day, and Rs have the lock on that vote.

I pray he does not win the nomination, because if he does, it is over ...

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
32. I have to disagree with some of your comments...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 07:56 PM
Feb 2016

Al Gore spent the entire election running away from the record and popularity of Bill Clinton. You don't see either Clinton or Sanders running away from the record of Barack Obama.

Oh, and Al Gore was elected President. It was just stolen by * and KKKarl Rove.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
33. I didnt post
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:53 PM
Feb 2016

That al gore ran from clinton or that the election wasnt stolen ...

Neither point counters the much more significant points I made.

Whether the election was stolen or not, whether gore ran from clinton or not, it never should have been close enough to steal or matter if gore ran from clinton or not.

If peiple were simply choosing the, hands down, not even close, best candidate, even wo florida gore wins 49other states.

Points stand, the people of this country are fucking stupid.

The stupid in this country is why gwb was potus for 8"years, why republican jackasses far outnumber democrats in congress, state leislatures and governors and why the dynamics of this election are very unfavorable to democrats unless the r is truly horrible, like trump or cruz ....

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
34. Oh come on. You made no points in your post. Go read it again...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:37 PM
Feb 2016

You disagree that any of my points are incorrect? You made assertions that I do not agree with.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
15. Rubio has been an unknown - coasting along - candidate - the target is now on his back
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 12:47 PM
Feb 2016

I have full confidence Rubio will surge and then fall as people hear more about him.

Remember Carson surging in the polls because he sounded okay on paper. Then people heard him talk and realized he wasn't good and he fell in the polls.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
16. primary vs general
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 01:52 PM
Feb 2016

I am not talking the primary ...

That is still a toss up.

I am talking the general.

He is THE threat in the general.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
18. My point is he won't make it to the general - he will be done in the primary
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 01:58 PM
Feb 2016


They are already going after him in the primary. He will rise like Carson did and then fall like Carson has.

Jeb Bush is going after him now - Santorum did Rubio no favors on Morning Joe - it will be used against Rubio again and again.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/jeb-bush-taking-chunks-out-of-marco-rubio-over-list-of-accomplishments/

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
37. And that wont matter
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 08:55 AM
Feb 2016

Because policy wonks like us make up an extraordinarily low percentages of american voters ...

First, rubio will be coached up to at least get by in that type of setting, gwb was a functioning moron, and they coached him up enough ...

You are SERIOUSLY overestimating the people in this country ...

A debate between rubio and bernie or hillary would be a democrat talking about policy and substance, rubio looking good, coaches what not to say, some poll tested things to say, some reagenesque house on the hill bs ...

Which would be "analyzed" as bernie or hillary being whatever negeatve frame the rs come up with, Rubio being the sainted reanimation of ronald reagen ...

And the zombies eati g it up ....

This is the country that really thought it was a good idea to elect a potus because he was a guy you would like to have a beer with ... and, we are more stupid today than then.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
38. Even should the moderators throw Rubio exclusively softballs, I don't believe
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:15 AM
Feb 2016

there is any way Sanders would let him get away with it. Yeah, that means Sanders would have to do his job AND the moderator's job. But I have become enormously respectful watching Sanders' rhetorical skills over the past 12 months and can see him exposing Rubio as the Dan Quayle-esque figure -- vicious and stupid -- he is.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
42. Look
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:01 AM
Feb 2016

Bernie is great ...

But, your are seriously underestimating the stupid in this country, the visciousness and deceitfulness of republicans and the way the national press channels their bullshit.

Bernie has not yet been hit by them, 99 percent of theri focus is on destroying hillary.

The moment he becomes the presumptive nominee, if that happens, they will turn on him like bho ....

Your are being seriously niave if you think a couple exchanges in a debate would alter the larger dynamics ...

Bernie or hillary are going to be destroyed, line gore, dean, kerry and what they have tried w bho, and rubio will be positively framed, like gwb, and frankly, he has more to work with than that moron had.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
43. I live in a state that elected Shwarze-Nazi twice as governor, so I'm well
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:21 AM
Feb 2016

aware of the IDD (intellectual deficit disorder) our citezenry have. But I think Sanders is 1,000 times the candidate Gore was and even 100 times the candidate Carter was in 1980. His smarts and dynamism will keep whoever is on the other side constantly on the defensive, I think. He's a very talented political figure, as talented in his own way as BHO.

If you think Dems stand no chance in the GE, are you making any plans for what will surely come? I always say "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst." Despite my first-paragraph optimism, you can bet I'm following my own advice.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
27. Moderate republicons became conservative Democrats after the Clintonian 3rd-Way takeover
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 06:10 PM
Feb 2016

of the Democratic Party.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
40. Then the days of Republicans winning the White House are also gone
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:20 AM
Feb 2016

There is no way the nation as a whole will vote in one of these far RW extremists.

Especially with the growth in numbers and political engagement of minority voters.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
41. That day is certainly coming, if it's not already upon us
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:55 AM
Feb 2016

The presidential election is a function of the electoral college. So certainly the GOP is going to have no problem corralling the most bigoted of states, but in doing so they will have an increasingly hard time wining the swing states. Angry and afraid old white people is a demographic that is on the decline in this country. So the GOP either has to change, or it will surely dissolve into a regional only party, and their biggest problem is if they change they will alienate their hard core bigoted base and probably dissolve as a functional power anyway.

Gumboot

(531 posts)
36. ^^^ This is my thinking, too.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:47 PM
Feb 2016

Jeb is the elephant in the room. And no one is paying attention.

Wall Street wants another Bush presidency.


treestar

(82,383 posts)
6. Typical stupid Republicans
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 08:52 PM
Feb 2016

thought they could get women with Palin, think they can get Latinos with a candidate of that background. Just dumb and insulting.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
7. His positions on these things literally dont matter one bit
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 07:59 AM
Feb 2016

Today, more than anything, IMAGE trumps all.

Reagen and bush II had the same positions, but reagen had his morning in america bullshit and jr babbled about compassionate conservatism while his being a moron got positively framed as his being a guy y o u would like to have a beer with.

This country, somehow, is even more stupid today ...

Rubio is good looking, a little taller, and has a reagen type message, and would benefit from the same dynamic that jr did.

Republicans have thrown an 8 year hissy fit over bho, just as they did with clinton, and just as with clinton, despite the country having been better off, the country is wore down from it, and rubios tranparent affability, like jrs, will be positively framed .... frankly, hes even easier to pretty up, and if hes the nominee, be prepared to be nauseated because he will be treated like reagen reanimated corpse by conservatives and their national media whores, who will swoon over him like teeneage girls swooning over the beattles.

If he gets the nod he wins easily, likely a landslide, if its hillary or bernie.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
9. I am pretty concerned about him right now, and I think he is in a good position re: the nomination
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:01 AM
Feb 2016

He is in a great position to have the establishment rally around him and he has the two non-establishment other top contenders beating up on each other vying for the non-establishment vote.

Shorter version: He benefits from being the only establishment candidate in the top tier.

And as you noted, I don't like the optics of him vs Hillary or Bernie.

Cosmocat

(14,561 posts)
10. Oh, yeah
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:34 AM
Feb 2016

I want NOTHING to do with him ...

Trump or Cruz are horrible enough that it gives either dem a puncher's chance.

But, unless he royally screws up, and I mean something TRULY bad, he will be untouchable ...

greymattermom

(5,754 posts)
8. He needs to be asked about zika
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 08:50 AM
Feb 2016

So, is he opposed to abortion of microencephalic fetuses? If not, where are the funds to care for them for their entire lives? Zika is already in Florida, right?

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
20. This is why I don't understand liberals bashing Trump. We should be rooting for him.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 05:13 PM
Feb 2016

And we should be incredibly concerned about Cruz and Rubio being the GOP nominee.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
24. But at the very least, we know he's lying about social issues. Trump is very much the New York
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 06:01 PM
Feb 2016

social liberal. He's only pretending not to be now.

We know he has a history of being for reproductive rights and gay rights, again, at the very least.

Those other GOP candidates are HARD RIGHT on all issues.

At the very least, with a President Trump, I think there's less of a concern about going after reproductive rights. I don't even believe that he'll touch Obamacare. I really don't. I think Trump is a secret Democrat. He has had a friendly relationship with the Clintons; he can't be that far right.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
45. I agree with you about Trump
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 05:08 PM
Feb 2016

He is a billionaire but not a full idiotic right winger. I may cross over and vote for him in the primary.

I prefer Bernie and will accept Hillary

I can tolerate Trump BUT no can do for the rest of the Republicans.......

All the rest of them really scare the crap out of me and their money men.

There are so many overly rich people in the country today, I think there will be another Presidential assassination in the future.

They can do it and get away with it. H.L. Hunt, Dallas Oil millionare did it to Kennedy.

CincyDem

(6,347 posts)
29. I have always said Trump and Cruz have a role to play this primary season...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 06:22 PM
Feb 2016


...and it wasn't to become the nominee. They're the blockers. The guys who go out and say the most outrageous things. The guys to that go so far right that they make the normal whack jobs look normal. Rubio is a "normal wackjob" that in any year without Trump and Cruz would be called out daily for his rabid opinions on just about every topic.

But this year...because of the great job these guys have done shifting the whack job scale, he's just your normal rethug.

All part of the plan I say.

red dog 1

(27,792 posts)
31. I agree with you somewhat, Trump & Cruz could well become "the blockers"
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 06:30 PM
Feb 2016

but I seriously doubt that it's deliberate, or "all part of the plan"

Trump & Cruz are just a tad crazier than the other GOP clowns, IMO. (Carson too)

I just don't see anyone "knocking off Trump"..and that includes Cruz & Rubio

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