It saddens me to see xenophobia even here at DU.

[Blue_In_AK]

That is all. Good night, sweet dreams in your comfy beds, everyone.

[mdbl]

1. I'll take your word on that

Last edited Tue Nov 17, 2015, 06:54 AM - Edit history (1)

although whether a fear is unreasonable or not is your opinion.

[JackInGreen]

4. If you let your fear rule you that way

Perhaps you're in the wrong place.

[Pacifist Patriot]

20. I've given this a lot of thought over the last few days.

I know without doubt that I would prefer the risk of dying in a random terrorist act at the end of a shorter life filled with love, compassion, kindness, and adventure than die in my bed at the end of a long life of fear, suspicion, and hatred.

I'm not being flippant. I really have been considering this in light of all the commentary I have read and heard since the refugee crisis became news, and especially since Friday night's attacks.

In fact, now that I have a child who has left the nest, I have plenty of room in my home. I'd be happy to take a refugee or two and open my house to them if it came to that need.

[restorefreedom]

61. a truly beautiful sentiment. nt

[Javaman]

43. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. nt

[GummyBearz]

53. That was said in the context of facing a German/Nazi invasion

In which we carpet bombed them every single day until the only ones left preferred our POW camps, and their wives, daughters, etc were raped by the Russian army.

Should we take that path again? Russia seems to be down for it. Our MIC always is.

[Javaman]

56. No actually it wasn't. It was in FDR's 1932 inaugural speach...

“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”: FDR’s First Inaugural Address

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

perhaps you should read a little history.

you were saying?

[GummyBearz]

57. I was saying

foot goes into mouth. I really thought it was a WW2 quote. Well, today I learned...

[Javaman]

58. No worries. :) we have all had to taste our toes now and then.

Cheers!

[pampango]

2. Sometimes fear conquers our better, more liberal nature. It happens though,

in retrospect, we are rarely proud of the fact that we let fear win.

[enid602]

6. fear

Fear is sometimes understandable, but we must also face our responsibility for a situation the we did create.

[pampango]

7. Fear is certainly sometimes understandable.

Overreaction and stereotyping entire group of people as a result of that fear, is not.

... we must also face our responsibility for a situation the we did create.

Well said.

[FLPanhandle]

30. What about fear of a population full of armed people and easily attained guns?

What about fear of what climate change could do?

Fear is a perfectly acceptable emotion. The trick is to know when it's rational and logicial to fear something and when it isn't.

As for the refugees, the best way to counter fear to for the president to explain exactly how they will be screened.

[Koinos]

3. Fear of all members of an ethnic, racial, or religious group is patently unreasonable.

Fear of all persons foreign to ourselves (anyone not like us) is simply unethical and illogical.

I have greater fear of potential "domestic terrorists" -- those who walk among us, look like us, act like us, seem "American," but carry a chip on their shoulder and guns to public places.

Politicians and cult leaders manipulate others by appealing to their fear, anger, hatred, anxiety, and ignorance. All of this ill will and foolishness becomes a conflagration that is very hard to put out.

[mdbl]

5. How about fear of religious doctrines

is that unreasonable?

[Koinos]

10. I believe that fear or hatred of all religious doctrines is unreasonable.

Militant atheism is unreasonable. There are ethical lessons to be learned from every religious tradition.

The doctrine of "love your neighbor as yourself" (restated in many ways in every ethical or religious system) is quite reasonable and humane.

Hateful religious speech is another issue altogether. People who use words to stoke their own greed, hatred, and ignorance are the problem. And these people will always be able to find some texts that "justify" their unreasonable hatred.

But why fear words? Critical thinking and ethical principle help sort things out.

It might be better to ask whether anger is reasonable. There is certainly a lot of it these days, but is it "practical"? Does it make things better rather than worse?

There is a lot of anger everywhere, even on DU. I fear anger more than words.

[FLPanhandle]

29. Bullshit

"Militant atheism is unreasonable." - Religion is by definition the rejection of reason and logic and evidence.

" There are ethical lessons to be learned from every religious tradition. " - Name one ethical rule humans won't have without religion.

[Koinos]

36. Why are you so angry? Whence the hate?

Atheism is not the problem; militancy is. Most atheists are kind, tolerant, and respect the dignity of all persons. Humanists in general are able to embrace human beings everywhere, no matter how their opinions may differ. Why go to war with everyone about everything? Intolerance of any kind is not a virtue.

[FLPanhandle]

51. No anger

Just pointing out the illogic of your post.

Still waiting for that example of ethics religion brings to mankind that rational, logical thought would not.

[mythology]

54. You can't prove a negative

You can say that much of our ethical standards have roots in religion, but given the frequency that similar ethics appear across religions, it's probably human nature and so could have been reached without religion. But that's a supposition because they did start in religion. You can't prove that our cultural ethics would have evolved in the same fashion (for good or bad) without religion. And no claiming you did doesn't count because you are immersed in the culture.

I say this as an atheist who got kicked out of my religious high for being too atheist.

[Koinos]

70. Saying "bullshit" to a poster you do not know might not seem particularly rational to an observer.

Perhaps you really meant it in a calm and gentle way. I will assume that is the case and move on.

There are people on DU who do seem to need anger management. Even myself sometimes. But not today.

I do not hate all religion. I do not hate all persons who identify with religion.

Someday, we may meet in a bar and discuss this whole thing peacefully, rather then using harsh words and hiding behind social media masks.

Or do militant atheists punch everyone they do not agree with? That would certainly not be rational.

As a humanist, I stand with John Dewey and Paul Kurtz, who believed that believers and unbelievers could work side by side for the common good.

For me, dialogue and cooperation are preferable to war. If that approach is rational, then angry confrontation is not.

[FLPanhandle]

89. Too much time with buddies watching football this weekend.

Bullshit and many other swear words are used more or less as bonding

[Yorktown]

11. Yes, fear of religious doctrines can be reasonable

The Inquisition, Catholic bishops who OK kill-the-gays bills or literal/political Islam for example

[rjsquirrel]

15. Lol ok

I only hate ideas, not people. So let's say this: because of the Inquisition and other bad things I will never trust another Catholic person. All CatholIc's are also fully to blame for pedophile priests. If you didn't quit the church you must be one of the bad ones. The only good catholic is an ex one.

/snark off.

See how disingenuous bigotry is still bigotry? Hating a religion instead of its adherent is a meaningless distinction, and a bigot's way of acceptably hating people.

[Fumesucker]

21. What Muslims and Christians have in common is fear of and hatred for atheists

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/21/the_numbers_are_in_america_still_distrusts_atheists_and_muslims_partner/

Religious tension is nothing new in America. Hatred between religions, distrust and downright anger are the everyday norm for anyone with a television set or access to the Internet.

Now according to a new survey by the Pew Research Center, we know who is disliked the most. Atheists and Muslims appear to be in a statistical tie. While atheism itself is not a religion, it is often included in religious polls to help account for those who reject religion, instead of just non-affiliated believers.

Given the high level of xenophobia in the United States toward Muslims since 9/11, it is not surprising, but is still depressing to find them ranked so unfavorably. And atheists are shot down to the bottom and universally disliked by just about every religious group there is.

[Yorktown]

23. Nope. Because a lot of believers just don't care

For a lot of people, being Christian is just that death insurance policy with a nice paradise guarantee because 'Jesus saves', or being Muslim means you probably will go to jennah-paradise while unbelievers might not. Add a bit of church going or 5 prayers a day, and that's pretty much it.

It's those who really buy into the doctrine, the Christians and Muslims who call homosexuality an abomination, the Bible thumpers who despise Atheists, the literalist Muslims who look down on women and hate apostates, who are the bigots.

And it is not bigoted to say the doctrines (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and the bigots who buy it hook, line and sinker who are a problem.

Calling those who call out religious bigotry is just empty moral relativism.

[rjsquirrel]

12. How about bigots?

I fear bigots, 4egardless of party, who would tar 20% of humanity as evil because they hold a particular faith.

Bigot.

[pampango]

13. No, as long as we do not fear the human beings who may or may not practice what

a religious doctrine preaches. We can also fear an economic doctrine or any other doctrine without fearing the people who practice it.

Many 'Christians' don't act very 'Christian'. I am sure that Muslims show the same variability, as do Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics and every other group bound together by religion, race or ethnicity. The vast majority of people of any religious doctrine (or any race or ethnicity) are good people and should not be objects of hate or fear. A few in each group (religion, race and ethnicity) are bad and need to be dealt with.

[BlueMTexpat]

14. It is ALL radical religious doctrines

that are the problem.

Even then, it is only certain fanatical members who actually act on the radicalism.

US foreign policy - especially since the 1980s with Reagan's deliberate arming of the mujaheddine in Afghanistan and subsequent Bush wars (Iraq I & II, and Afghanistan) - has exponentially driven the cause of radical Islam. The ongoing cancer of the I/P situation has certainly not helped.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims - as are overwhelming majorities of any religions - are not terrorists and they should not be treated as such, nor should they be feared. That is certainly unreasonable.

[rjsquirrel]

16. So you decide

what beliefs are "radical?"

What about practitioners of the Native American Church? Some pretty extreme views are part of that for some people.

Being anti religion for yourself is one thing. Bigotry is anther.

[BlueMTexpat]

22. If you really cannot understand

the difference between having personal religious or non-religious beliefs - whatever they may be - and destroying the lives of others by killing or maiming them or inflicting those beliefs on others so that their own personal choices are not honored or respected, then you really haven't been paying attention.

I am not sure where you find that I am "anti-religion" in my post. I am, however, anti any individual who uses their religion (or lack of it) to kill, maim, or justify the killing or maiming of others. I am also anti any individual who uses their religion (or lack of it) to impose their own beliefs on me or to insist that their beliefs must affect my choices or rights.

How on earth did my post reflect "bigotry?" If anything, it was the opposite.

[LiberalElite]

24. Doctrines are just words - they need adherents -

not everyone in a given group follows doctrines.

[Koinos]

45. Agreed.

Angry people scare me more than doctrines. Doctrines are a mixed bag. Good people sort through it all and try to do what is best.

[mdbl]

87. if not everyone in a group follows their doctrines,

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2015, 06:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Why are they in that group?

[RobinA]

48. I'm Going To Disagree

We, and all animal species that have made it this far down the evolutionary path, are hardwired to fear, among other things, a situation/thing that has proven dangerous in the past. It's quite reasonable from a survival standpoint to generalize a fear, because otherwise one must judge the dangerousness of each and every new encounter with this situation/thing, which consumes resources and has the possibility of being wrong to the detriment of survival. So it is perfectly reasonable from an evolutionary standpoint to hear about a situation involving a bomb welding subset of a group of people and therefore develop a fear of the entire group.

Now, in our relatively advanced state, it is certainly possible and even desirable to overcome this tendency, but I think it should be recognized as a reasonable and natural reaction embedded in our survival. If we don't recognize it for what it is, we will not be able overcome it if we want to, because we will always be fighting the wrong battle.

[Enthusiast]

8. But I think there is a Mesican under my bed.

I know he's a Mesican from the size of his calves.

[DFW]

19. ¡Cuidado!

¡Estamos con quince hombres escondidos en el suelo bajo tu cama!

You can't say you weren't forewarned........

[Enthusiast]

9. Kicked and recommended!

[eShirl]

17. No kidding.

As a species, we have a lot of room for improvement in our future evolution.

[Koinos]

38. Hope we get the chance, before the environment shuts us down.

[marmar]

18. Don't let all the reactionary BS on DU right now get you down.

I swear reading some of this stuff I'd swear I was on Free Republic. Fear leads to a lot of irrationality.

[Koinos]

44. DU is not immune from the shortcomings of human nature.

But it is still disappointing.

[yuiyoshida]

25. I know a little about Xenophobia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014800179#post2

[BeanMusical]

28. This have been alerted on and hidden? That's ridiculous.

Clearly a xenophobic reaction. And then one poster went after AsahinaKimi and kept harassing them. It really sucks.

[yuiyoshida]

31. Which is why she is not around these days

She got tired of it.

[BeanMusical]

33. I can't blame her but it's a big loss for DU.

Yoi ichinichi o sugoshite kudasai.

[yuiyoshida]

34. She has totally left the internet as well

She told me on the phone, that maybe she could deal without the internet for a while.

[BeanMusical]

35. I'm so sorry.

[panader0]

49. Please tell her that she is missed here.

[yuiyoshida]

62. I have told her that...

but she is stubborn... shoganai

[Orrex]

60. A word of caution to anyone who posts in a non-English language:

You'd better be ready for me to badly mispronounce whatever you type. You've been warned!

[Blue_In_AK]

63. Wow, that was kind of disturbing.

I had missed that one.

[yuiyoshida]

66. disturbing enough to lose

a fellow Asian democrat's support for this site. AsahinaKimi won't be coming back any time soon.

[Blue_In_AK]

71. That's very sad.

I hate to see good DUers leave. We have lost many over the years that I've been here.

[yuiyoshida]

74. I frankly can't tell how many of "us" are left.

Not like lot of people self identify as being of Asian decent. Can't blame them, though after seeing what was done to Kimi, maybe its just wiser to say nothing... but I am not that way..
Its like seeing polls where Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics are listed, but there is no spot for us, when I know there is a fairly decent population of people who came from Asian shores. (its even worse if you are also part Pacific Islander, as I am.)

meh..shoganai!

[Blue_In_AK]

75. Have you been to Alaska?

Here in Anchorage we have a large population of Asians AND Pacific Islanders. You would feel welcome here.

[yuiyoshida]

76. I am part Native Hawaiian ..even

California seems too cold for me some times, and I was born and grew up here. No thanks, but I would love to go to Hawaii.. on the other hand. I keep hoping one day my parents decide they had enough of the mainland and want to move back home, but its not likely they will pull up roots any time soon. San Francisco has many Asians here, and I feel blessed I am not stuck in some little town where we are the only Asian family for 300 miles!

[Blue_In_AK]

77. Well, yes, there's the cold.

I don't know how it is that so many Samoans ended up in Alaska - maybe the fishing industry? - but they seem to have adapted to the weather quite well. I see them around in their shorts even in mid-winter. Tougher than me.

[yuiyoshida]

78. I read some where

that Samoans love and eat lots of pork. Always seemed large, and maybe that helps with the internal heat. One of my favorite Samoans was a football player..Manu Tuiasosopo!

Pretty cool guy!

[Blue_In_AK]

79. We have a large ex-NFL Samoan football player, Mao Tosi,

who is very active with the young people here. Good man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Tosi

[Bluenorthwest]

85. Fishing and cannery is the biggest industry in Samoa. American Samoa is the largest fishing port

under the US flag, Dutch Harbor comes in second. So it is in fact the fishery that does it.

[Blue_In_AK]

88. Good guess on my part.

[neverforget]

93. That's freaking horrible!

I'm so sorry!

[BeanMusical]

26. Kick and R

[no_hypocrisy]

27. I live in a small town next to Paterson, NJ, an area with the

second highest concentration of Muslims.

My mayor is a Syrian ex-pat. My neighbors are from Syria and other ME countries. I have no terror, no fear. We have a neighborhood. We smile and wave. We are a community. And we aren't inclined to change.

[Koinos]

41. Islamophobia, like any prejudice, makes no sense at all.

See this article: "Islamophobia seen as US states shun Syrians":

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/islamophobia-syrian-refugees-usa-governors-151116164708308.html

It is important to see the way we look to others when our governors behave this way.

[madokie]

32. I'm with you on this

[bullwinkle428]

37. It's not that hard to figure out, if we all went back around 70 years in time,

who would have been supportive of internment camps for Japanese-Americans, as well as objecting to allowing German Jewish refugees to come into America, "CUZ THEYRE MAYBE SOME GERMAN SPIES IN THERE!!1!"

[yuiyoshida]

40. I am sure glad I wasn't around 70 years ago

especially after hearing some of the stories from George Takei!

[bullwinkle428]

46. He has done an INCREDIBLE job sharing stories of that era that were so

in need of telling.

[yuiyoshida]

47. honto desuyo!

So VERY true!

[malaise]

39. The worst thing about xenophobia is that other xenophobes on other countries

think the same way and we all suffer.

[Koinos]

42. It is hard to defuse fear, anger, and hatred.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. Just for perspective, DU finally PPR'd a poster who has spent months spewing horrible anti gay and

antisemitic crap. It's sweet, OP, that you are now at last and finally able to find something to object to, but DU bigotry is loud and clear and very often it goes without so much as a complaint from most of DU.
Here is one of that poster's worst, from the morning after the Nov 2014 election:

"The openness and brazenness of the LBGT agenda and the media flaunting of gay marriages all across the country cost Dems dearly and threatens to do so in the future."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025764803#post45


I have had posts hidden by DU's valiant straights for calling that person's bigotry out. That is the level of bigotry that is openly practiced on DU. That poster remained on DU for a year after saying that shit about LGBT.
So if you are just now noticing it I really, really do not know what to think.

[Iggo]

55. 'Bout fuckin' time.

[Orrex]

59. :thumbsup:

[bullwinkle428]

65. One year too late, but still, DU is a better place for their departure.

[Blue_In_AK]

67. Finally and at last?

Really? I don't see every post on DU, and I don't always comment on what I do see, but I object multiple times daily.

That being said, it is heartening when bigots of any stripe are removed from the site.

[Bluenorthwest]

84. I was not sure you would be glad. You and that poster, I have avoided you because you two

tended to chat in threads. I took it hard that DU allowed that shit here for so long. But do you get the point? Some of us live with that level of open hostility in our own home places and nothing is ever said about it. When a culture allows that sort of verbal attack on others, that culture can not act shocked when that sort of attack happens to others you actually like.

[Blue_In_AK]

86. Are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else?

I don't even recognize that person's name. If we've "chatted," it's only been in passing, and I certainly don't remember.

But let me take this opportunity to assure you that I am opposed to ALL homo- and trans-phobia, indeed discrimination against, or denial of rights to, anyone for any reason. I'm probably one of the most tolerant people you'd ever meet in real life, and the people here who DO know me on line and in person can probably vouch for that. In fact, I would be shocked if they didn't.

I will cop to the fact that I don't alert often and I seldom vote to hide a post (especially in GD: P), but if someone personally attacks someone here consistently, I have no problem at all with them being shown the door.

One other thing, I don't think I was ever called to a jury on that person's posts. And obviously I don't read everything, so I'm sure there are posts here that even I would alert on (that being one) if I had seen it.

[tammywammy]

94. Finally! n/t

[spanone]

52. disgusting ain't it.

[closeupready]

64. Well, it's always been very strong on DU. So, I guess you can GBCW your account.

Whatev.

[Blue_In_AK]

68. Did I say anything about leaving?

Have you ever seen me do a GBCW post? In fact, I don't comment that much at all when I disagree with people because I don't like to argue, and I ordinarily leave OPs to others. Excuse me for commenting late last night on something that was troubling me. As an 11-year member here, I believe I have that right.

[closeupready]

69. I didn't mean it in the sense that, for example, Sid would have done it.

I meant it in the sense that it is a viable option. And frankly, it's an option I've exercised somewhat for the last year or so. I post less - a LOT less - that while that isn't exactly a GBCW post, I have made my displeasure publicly known here, in various threads.

So I apologize if I misstated what I meant to say. I was being 100% forthright. Cheers.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. Thank you.

No problem. One becomes so accustomed to snark around here, it's sometimes perceived where it doesn't exist. LOL re Sid.

[closeupready]

73. Totally agree.

[Douglas Carpenter]

80. so true and sometime from people who certainly should know better

[pampango]

81. It's not xenophobia. It's a fear of foreigners. ... Oh, wait. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

82. Exactly.

I was just having a conversation with someone on Facebook about how many Jewish refugees the US turned away in the WWII days. People say we can't take in Syrians because they might be terrorists, but why were they so cold-hearted to Jews?

[Hekate]

83. KnR, Blue.

[Hydra]

90. It's scary to see the reactions Bush used to coax out of his voters

Find a home here on DU.

[MisterP]

91. yeah, I had to keep a "future ignore list" when DU3 was rolled out

apropos of nothing some were already planning Islam's end for its supposed illiberality

[Solly Mack]

92. K&R