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marmar

(77,077 posts)
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:00 AM Nov 2015

Chris Hedges: The Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History


from truthdig:


The Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History

Posted on Nov 6, 2015
By Chris Hedges


The release Thursday of the 5,544-page text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership—a trade and investment agreement involving 12 countries comprising nearly 40 percent of global output—confirms what even its most apocalyptic critics feared.

“The TPP, along with the WTO (World Trade Organization) and NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), is the most brazen corporate power grab in American history,” Ralph Nader told me when I reached him by phone in Washington, D.C. “It allows corporations to bypass our three branches of government to impose enforceable sanctions by secret tribunals. These tribunals can declare our labor, consumer and environmental protections (to be) unlawful, non-tariff barriers subject to fines for noncompliance. The TPP establishes a transnational, autocratic system of enforceable governance in defiance of our domestic laws.”

The TPP is part of a triad of trade agreements that includes the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) and the Trade in Services Agreement (TiSA). TiSA, by calling for the privatization of all public services, is a mortal threat to the viability of the U.S. Postal Service, public education and other government-run enterprises and utilities; together these operations make up 80 percent of the U.S. economy. The TTIP and TiSA are still in the negotiation phase. They will follow on the heels of the TPP and are likely to go before Congress in 2017.

These three agreements solidify the creeping corporate coup d’état along with the final evisceration of national sovereignty. Citizens will be forced to give up control of their destiny and will be stripped of the ability to protect themselves from corporate predators, safeguard the ecosystem and find redress and justice in our now anemic and often dysfunctional democratic institutions. The agreements—filled with jargon, convoluted technical, trade and financial terms, legalese, fine print and obtuse phrasing—can be summed up in two words: corporate enslavement.

.....(snip).....

If there is no sustained popular uprising to prevent the passage of the TPP in Congress this spring we will be shackled by corporate power. Wages will decline. Working conditions will deteriorate. Unemployment will rise. Our few remaining rights will be revoked. The assault on the ecosystem will be accelerated. Banks and global speculation will be beyond oversight or control. Food safety standards and regulations will be jettisoned. Public services ranging from Medicare and Medicaid to the post office and public education will be abolished or dramatically slashed and taken over by for-profit corporations. Prices for basic commodities, including pharmaceuticals, will skyrocket. Social assistance programs will be drastically scaled back or terminated. And countries that have public health care systems, such as Canada and Australia, that are in the agreement will probably see their public health systems collapse under corporate assault. Corporations will be empowered to hold a wide variety of patents, including over plants and animals, turning basic necessities and the natural world into marketable products. And, just to make sure corporations extract every pound of flesh, any public law interpreted by corporations as impeding projected profit, even a law designed to protect the environment or consumers, will be subject to challenge in an entity called the investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) section. The ISDS, bolstered and expanded under the TPP, will see corporations paid massive sums in compensation from offending governments for impeding their “right” to further swell their bank accounts. Corporate profit effectively will replace the common good. ................(more)

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_most_brazen_corporate_power_grab_in_american_history_20151106




128 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Chris Hedges: The Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History (Original Post) marmar Nov 2015 OP
And HRC - The DNC DWS DLC Third-Way Establishment Candidate - Is Leading The Charge cantbeserious Nov 2015 #1
But, but...It's the Gold Standard! SoapBox Nov 2015 #11
Yes - For The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks -- Right On - No More DNC DWS DLC Third-Way Bull cantbeserious Nov 2015 #16
If it were to pass there will be an uprising. It's fascism bjobotts Nov 2015 #89
But, America's poor are the envy of the world, says the richest man in Congress Darrell Issa (R-CA)! appalachiablue Nov 2015 #113
That is NOT her position on the final document. She has REJECTED it. pnwmom Nov 2015 #91
She didn't say "hoped" She said it was eridani Nov 2015 #93
And THAT draft of it may have been the gold standard, in her opinion. But the final draft pnwmom Nov 2015 #95
The leaks of a number of sections indicate that it sucked then just as much as it sucks now eridani Nov 2015 #97
We don't know that the language that was leaked then was the language pnwmom Nov 2015 #99
All of them arrived at with zero input from labor unions and envirnomental groups eridani Nov 2015 #100
I am not supporting TPP. Hillary is not supporting TPP. So I don't know what you're talking about.nt pnwmom Nov 2015 #101
I'm talking about it passing with the help of Democrats eridani Nov 2015 #102
Believe What You Want To Believe - HRC Has So Waffled On TPP - I Believe Nothing She Says cantbeserious Nov 2015 #106
She has to reject it now Cassiopeia Nov 2015 #114
WRONG. She says she is NOT supporting it. pnwmom Nov 2015 #90
Except that isn't what she said at the time eridani Nov 2015 #94
The key words are "this TPP." That was the draft she was promoting at the time. pnwmom Nov 2015 #96
There were plenty of leaks back then as well. It has always been shitty eridani Nov 2015 #98
Believe What You Want To Believe - HRC Has So Waffled On TPP - I Believe Nothing She Says cantbeserious Nov 2015 #105
Actually our Democratic President Obama is leading the charge. fasttense Nov 2015 #115
Riddle Me This - Who Was Secretary Of State During The Majority Of Country To Country Negotiations cantbeserious Nov 2015 #116
Exactly. n/t fasttense Nov 2015 #125
K&R. Thanks, marmar. nt antigop Nov 2015 #2
K&R !!!!!!!!!!!! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2015 #3
but, but, corporations had no input in the negotiations!!!! KG Nov 2015 #4
Finally, someone is thinking of the Basa fish. OnyxCollie Nov 2015 #19
I, for one, welcome our Plutocratic Overlords! Octafish Nov 2015 #5
How soon will it filter down to outspoken people like you Generic Other Nov 2015 #24
In another universe layer, the Courts would protect us. Octafish Nov 2015 #78
Why does Obama support it? Martin Eden Nov 2015 #6
Me too. Anyone? (N/T) Old Crow Nov 2015 #9
Here's what the White House says: erronis Nov 2015 #10
Yes, so now OUR standard of living can be as low as the the worst in the smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #23
Exactly. hifiguy Nov 2015 #59
Thank god Obama is looking out for us. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2015 #34
My feelings exactly. SusanaMontana41 Nov 2015 #41
I would like to know what the 18,000 taxes are about... SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #43
I would like to know how many of those low-wage watrwefitinfor Nov 2015 #50
"Americans out-compete anyone in the world".... bvar22 Nov 2015 #47
And that is the goal of the owners. Make the common people engage in blood sports to survive. erronis Nov 2015 #49
Yes. polly7 Nov 2015 #55
It always has been. hifiguy Nov 2015 #62
And feudal lords simply cut your throat... Thespian2 Nov 2015 #70
An engineered major die-off has been in the planning stages hifiguy Nov 2015 #71
Exactly. polly7 Nov 2015 #104
"Americans out-compete anyone in the world"... tecelote Nov 2015 #103
In other words, when we lower American's standard of living to that of Vietnam, industry will return tularetom Nov 2015 #76
BULLSHIT American exceptionalism FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #117
I was banned from an Obama group here on DU for asking that questiion. jalan48 Nov 2015 #12
Banned for asking a perfectly reasonable question?!!? gregcrawford Nov 2015 #30
I thought the question was perfectly reasonable. jalan48 Nov 2015 #33
Ring of Fire: War on whistleblowers SusanaMontana41 Nov 2015 #42
One does not question hifiguy Nov 2015 #63
WOW. SusanaMontana41 Nov 2015 #40
consider being banned an honor Skittles Nov 2015 #56
Authoritarians demand "respect" (read supplication) with no questions allowed. rhett o rick Nov 2015 #57
well, the ACA was an enormous corporate power grab. race to the bottom is a huge Doctor_J Nov 2015 #13
ummm, this is a little indelicate... drynberg Nov 2015 #14
Because he thinks it's better than our current trade agreements with these countries Recursion Nov 2015 #15
His definition of "better" seems to be in conflict with everyone except shills for the ... Scuba Nov 2015 #18
You should read my posts. I said they didn't negotiate it Recursion Nov 2015 #26
With what we've learned about it, it's clear whoever negotiated it was doing so ... Scuba Nov 2015 #31
For the benefit of the world's largest corporations Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #109
I imagine ejbr Nov 2015 #17
+1,000 n/t LarryNM Nov 2015 #53
According to White House.Gov monicaangela Nov 2015 #21
The problem is that zalinda Nov 2015 #29
I agree Zalinda monicaangela Nov 2015 #79
Here's a link to what the TTP says, about itself. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #35
I think there was some terrible arm twisting behind the scenes. senz Nov 2015 #67
The simplest answer is that he agrees with it. arcane1 Nov 2015 #77
I think that makes the most sense Martin Eden Nov 2015 #85
I am in agreement with that statement. In the long run, what he has done so far has shown to be Bohunk68 Nov 2015 #107
Just because Obama agrees with it doesn't make it a good deal Martin Eden Nov 2015 #108
The most important fight of our lifetime FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #7
but it sets the gold standard in trade agreements... magical thyme Nov 2015 #8
It's the gold standard all right... CoffeeCat Nov 2015 #88
I just wrote both my Senators dickthegrouch Nov 2015 #20
Sounds like Bill Murray. randome Nov 2015 #22
Dream on. Rex Nov 2015 #36
Yep. Tragically predictable. marmar Nov 2015 #45
They never give up. Rex Nov 2015 #124
K&R..... daleanime Nov 2015 #25
k/r 840high Nov 2015 #27
K n R!! bbgrunt Nov 2015 #28
K & R AzDar Nov 2015 #32
TPP's definition of "person: person means a natural person or an enterprise." nt 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #37
Ho-lee shit. hifiguy Nov 2015 #64
yeah, what is a "natural enterprise"????? grasswire Nov 2015 #84
The "conspiracy theories" president Obama chided us for turned out to be an actual conspiracy. pa28 Nov 2015 #38
I. Was. Hoping nobody. Would. Notice. Octafish Nov 2015 #81
Corporate bootlickers love it! Rex Nov 2015 #39
Hedges nails it. Faryn Balyncd Nov 2015 #44
Gold standard? Hillary-class citizens get the gold. We get toxic waste and job losses. whereisjustice Nov 2015 #46
and a big plate of Marty McGraw Nov 2015 #82
Hillary REJECTED the final document that resulted from the years of negotiations. pnwmom Nov 2015 #92
lol - she evolved. Conveniently too late to change anything, of course. whereisjustice Nov 2015 #126
The DOCUMENT evolved. She was hopeful the problems could be worked out, pnwmom Nov 2015 #127
From "marriage between man and woman" to "gold standard" Her evolving truthiness gets an F. whereisjustice Nov 2015 #128
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #48
I had a post hiiden by jury for cussing out Obama because of the TPP. Unknown Beatle Nov 2015 #51
All of this, Unknown Beatle. hifiguy Nov 2015 #65
PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #110
A la lanterene! It's time for a revolution people. Hotler Nov 2015 #52
... AND OBAMA, the DINO, RAMMED it Home.... to momma Ferd Berfel Nov 2015 #54
Exactly. With the TPP, any regulation that affects profits, or expected profits, will be challenged djean111 Nov 2015 #60
Only Nixon could to to China hifiguy Nov 2015 #66
Knock off the 'Barry' shit, wise-ass. randome Nov 2015 #75
Bark at the moon - He sold us out Completely with TPP Ferd Berfel Nov 2015 #123
Storm The Bastille billhicks76 Nov 2015 #58
Complete plans for a functional U-Build-It hifiguy Nov 2015 #72
K&R summerschild Nov 2015 #61
Damnit, Millenials need to fight this. Big Corporations are taking away their future AZ Progressive Nov 2015 #68
Happy Kick BelgianMadCow Nov 2015 #69
Citations please. nt kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #73
K&R Paka Nov 2015 #74
hey, DU's resident corporate whore-meister has not contributed here yet? Skittles Nov 2015 #80
You crack me up, Skittles FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #118
Recommend........ KoKo Nov 2015 #83
Time to take up archery, Catniss. n\t BobTheSubgenius Nov 2015 #86
This is a corporate coup. Where is Smedley Butler when you need him? Initech Nov 2015 #87
Thanks for this post marmar. You do us all a service! nt haikugal Nov 2015 #111
co-signed. FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #119
This is everything we thought it was, and WORSE... MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #112
A lot of people have labored and invested, hard, for us to get here. raouldukelives Nov 2015 #120
Thanks Obama nt Buzz cook Nov 2015 #121
K & R. Chris Hedges splains the TPP abomination perfectly. Perfectly awful. appalachiablue Nov 2015 #122

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
16. Yes - For The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks -- Right On - No More DNC DWS DLC Third-Way Bull
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:42 AM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)

eom

appalachiablue

(41,130 posts)
113. But, America's poor are the envy of the world, says the richest man in Congress Darrell Issa (R-CA)!
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:07 AM
Nov 2015

We've got it good.. compared to Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam, more.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
91. That is NOT her position on the final document. She has REJECTED it.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 03:56 AM
Nov 2015

While it was being negotiated, years ago, during her stint as SoS, she was hopeful. But the final document is not one she can support.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-singh-grewal/why-hillary-clinton-is-ri_b_8295420.html

When she was Secretary of State, she had hoped that the TPP would represent the "gold standard" in new trade deals, as she expressed in a speech in 2012. But as anyone who has studied these trade deals knows, the devil is in the details -- and Clinton was not in charge of the final talks that produced the details of the TPP. Now that Clinton knows what was negotiated, she has decided she doesn't support the agreement. As she explained, "I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, 'this will help raise your wages.' And I concluded I could not."

eridani

(51,907 posts)
93. She didn't say "hoped" She said it was
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:31 AM
Nov 2015

All of the "trade" deals from NAFTA on down have had little to do with trade, and everything to do with corporations overriding democratically elected governments.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
95. And THAT draft of it may have been the gold standard, in her opinion. But the final draft
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:36 AM
Nov 2015

was not, and that's the only one that counts.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
97. The leaks of a number of sections indicate that it sucked then just as much as it sucks now
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:41 AM
Nov 2015

No one who is working for the 99% could ever approve of a trade deal that contains anything but mutual tariff reductions. For TPP, that would be 5 of 29 articles. Investor dispute resolution is an attack on the very idea of a democratically elected government.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
99. We don't know that the language that was leaked then was the language
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:29 AM
Nov 2015

she was supporting then. There were many competing versions at the time.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
100. All of them arrived at with zero input from labor unions and envirnomental groups
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:35 AM
Nov 2015

You seem to be actively working to get Democrats creamed next year. Which we will be if TPP passes with help from Democrats. Unions and environmental groups provide the doorknocking and phonebanking that help us overcome Repub money. They will not be doing so enthusiastically if TPP passes. Hard to get worked up over campaigning to be fucked over somewhat less.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
101. I am not supporting TPP. Hillary is not supporting TPP. So I don't know what you're talking about.nt
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:37 AM
Nov 2015

eridani

(51,907 posts)
102. I'm talking about it passing with the help of Democrats
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:48 AM
Nov 2015

I actually don't mind Clinton changing her mind here. Her focus groups have obviously picked up on the shitstorm that would happen if she supported it. And that in fact may help us defeat it.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
114. She has to reject it now
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:37 AM
Nov 2015

So she can support it later.

She actively supported the TPP up until it wasn't politically expedient to do so. If elected she will fight for more trade just like the TPP and worse.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
90. WRONG. She says she is NOT supporting it.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 03:53 AM
Nov 2015

When it was still being negotiated she was hoping it would work out. But she doesn't support the document that was finally written.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-singh-grewal/why-hillary-clinton-is-ri_b_8295420.html

When she was Secretary of State, she had hoped that the TPP would represent the "gold standard" in new trade deals, as she expressed in a speech in 2012. But as anyone who has studied these trade deals knows, the devil is in the details -- and Clinton was not in charge of the final talks that produced the details of the TPP. Now that Clinton knows what was negotiated, she has decided she doesn't support the agreement. As she explained, "I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, 'this will help raise your wages.' And I concluded I could not."

eridani

(51,907 posts)
94. Except that isn't what she said at the time
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:36 AM
Nov 2015
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/what-hillary-clinton-really-said-about-tpp-and-gol/

In Australia in 2012, Clinton delivered remarks on the general topic of the U.S.-Australia relationship. Here’s everything she said about the TPP in that address, with the "gold standard" comment in bold.

"So it's fair to say that our economies are entwined, and we need to keep upping our game both bilaterally and with partners across the region through agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TPP. Australia is a critical partner. This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field. And when negotiated, this agreement will cover 40 percent of the world's total trade and build in strong protections for workers and the environment."


Nope--nothing there about hoping. No trade agreement yet has had ENFORCEABLE labor and environmental standards.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
96. The key words are "this TPP." That was the draft she was promoting at the time.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:38 AM
Nov 2015

Three years and multiple changes later, the final draft is not the same and she can't support it.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
98. There were plenty of leaks back then as well. It has always been shitty
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 06:42 AM
Nov 2015

There is no possible way that any champion of the people could support any process that allows corporations to override democratically elected governments.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
115. Actually our Democratic President Obama is leading the charge.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:57 AM
Nov 2015

He has gotten his fast track that's good for 6 years. He's pushing TPP like a drug dealer pushing crack. It will be his legacy. And we voted him in.

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
116. Riddle Me This - Who Was Secretary Of State During The Majority Of Country To Country Negotiations
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:59 AM
Nov 2015

eom

KG

(28,751 posts)
4. but, but, corporations had no input in the negotiations!!!!
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:07 AM
Nov 2015

besides, Brunei is getting a minimum wage!!!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. I, for one, welcome our Plutocratic Overlords!
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:11 AM
Nov 2015

Gosh, now I know what the people of the First Nations felt like when the colonists arrived.

Smile big, everybody! They're taking names.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
24. How soon will it filter down to outspoken people like you
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:25 PM
Nov 2015

silenced for fear of legal reprisal? This treaty will allow foreign corporations to overturn our first amendment rights. All our rights. As consumers. As sovereign Americans. Everything.

What do you think Keystone XL will do after this is passed? Will they come down and tell our political leaders what to do? We clearly have the example of how a US president can stop a foreign project from going forward. I will be interested to see if this is overturned by TPP.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
78. In another universe layer, the Courts would protect us.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:56 PM
Nov 2015

In this world, like Firesign Theatre said, we're on our own. Supreme Court Republican just-us ensures the 1-% will get ahead. Those who espouse once-American and now radical ideas like freedom, justice, equality will be shown the door. Look what happened to the guy who started RT, dead from "heart stroke"in a Washington hotel.

...Wikileaks has shown that the TPP will crack down on whistleblowing and make investigative journalism even more difficult. According to Wikileaks, the TPP text also reveals a “NSA-friendly” provision regarding telecommunications..." -- Telesur
http://www.globalresearch.ca/tpp-fears-confirmed-environmental-risks-runaway-corporate-power-weakened-democracy/5486950


These are the wealthiest times in human history. Yet rather than use this treasure to invest in making a better world for all, our "democratic leaders" deliver treaties that will accelerate the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer pockets.

PS: Good to read you, Generic Other. If we should end up in the same re-education camp, the time will fly.

Martin Eden

(12,863 posts)
6. Why does Obama support it?
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:24 AM
Nov 2015

I'm asking the question because I'm really struggling to understand and I want a rational, logical, honest answer.

erronis

(15,241 posts)
10. Here's what the White House says:
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:38 AM
Nov 2015
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/11/06/heres-deal-trans-pacific-partnership

When we have a level playing field, Americans out-compete anyone in the world. That’s a fundamental truth about our country.

But right now, the rules of global trade put our workers, our businesses, and our values at a disadvantage.

If you’re an autoworker in Michigan, the cars you build face taxes as high as 70 percent in Vietnam. If you’re a worker in Oregon, you’re forced to compete against workers in other countries that set lower standards and pay lower wages just to cut their costs. If you’re a small business owner in Ohio, you might face customs rules that are confusing, costly, and an unnecessary barrier to selling abroad.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership will change that -- and you can read the complete text of it right here.

The TPP is the highest standard trade agreement in history. It eliminates 18,000 taxes that various countries put on American goods. That will boost Made-in-America exports abroad while supporting higher-paying jobs right here at home. And that’s going to help our economy grow.


...

I haven't finished reading the 5,000+ pages yet so I can't comment intelligently. Actually I haven't even started.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
23. Yes, so now OUR standard of living can be as low as the the worst in the
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:16 PM
Nov 2015

third world, basically. I'm not buying it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
59. Exactly.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 06:21 PM
Nov 2015

And if you think the Clintons were lavishly rewarded for the services they rendered to the oligarchy (NAFTA, banking "reform", the Telecom Act), what they will give to Obama in his post-presidential years, if he gets this rammed down the country's throat (mostly with Repig votes in Congress) will make the Clintons' haul look like a thousand-dollar shopping spree at Sam's Club.

Legacy, indeed.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
34. Thank god Obama is looking out for us.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 01:09 PM
Nov 2015

Just as he did when he promised to end military occupations in the Middle East, to close Guantanamo,
and when he said we would keep our doctors under Obama Care, and that our medical premiums would remain affordable.

I feel so much better now knowing he will sign the TPP soon, long before any pesky Dems get a chance to change it in Congress.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
43. I would like to know what the 18,000 taxes are about...
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 02:21 PM
Nov 2015

Are these exports that really help us?

many of our exports are foolish

watrwefitinfor

(1,399 posts)
50. I would like to know how many of those low-wage
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 03:27 PM
Nov 2015

Vietnamese workers can afford USA manufactured cars at ANY price.

Wat

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
47. "Americans out-compete anyone in the world"....
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 03:03 PM
Nov 2015

when they get hungry enough to cut each others throats for slave wages so the kid can eat today,..... yes they do,
and THAT is the "level playing field" brought to us by so called "Free Trade".

erronis

(15,241 posts)
49. And that is the goal of the owners. Make the common people engage in blood sports to survive.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 03:16 PM
Nov 2015

Makes no difference if you are a multibillionaire in NYC, London, Shanghai, or Rio.

The worst nightmare of these people (the $$$$$$$) is that the masses will actually start to take action to get what they need to survive - and get what they can from the castles and yachts.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
55. Yes.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:21 PM
Nov 2015

And for the poorest of the poor already suffering in countries unable to fight off economic terrorism, those working in off-shored industries as slave labour with absolutely no protection for conditions in the workplace, for the horrific environmental disasters already being seen - it's already begun. They are the invisible, soon ... there will be more, and more. Those with corporate power and control are blind to it, they do not care.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
62. It always has been.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 06:44 PM
Nov 2015

This is the imposition of feudal economics by essentially fascist power structures. With corporations dictating to governments.

" Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power" Giovanni Gentile (appropriated by Benito Mussolini)

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
70. And feudal lords simply cut your throat...
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:37 PM
Nov 2015

Our fascist psychopathic oligarchs want the serfs to kill each other or starve...

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
71. An engineered major die-off has been in the planning stages
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:57 PM
Nov 2015

for quite a while. Back in the 1970s War Criminal (and BFF of a certain presidential candidate) Henry Kissinger was proposing ways to cull out what he called the "useless eaters" by using food as a weapon. Then it was directed at the Third World. Now it is directed at the US.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
104. Exactly.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:52 AM
Nov 2015

“Control oil and you control nations,” said US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger in the 1970s. ”Control food and you control the people.”

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
103. "Americans out-compete anyone in the world"...
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 07:50 AM
Nov 2015

That phrase basically means, even though the field is not level, you're the best, you can handle it.

As you say, we're tired of being driven down so corporations, who usually do not even pay taxes in our country, can profit.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
76. In other words, when we lower American's standard of living to that of Vietnam, industry will return
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 08:47 PM
Nov 2015

Obama will create a level playing field by bringing us down to third world conditions.

But...there's hope! Hillary Clinton has come out in (sort of) opposition to the TPP, so when she becomes POTUS, this piece of shit agreement will be flushed down the crapper. Yeah, right.

We're fucked, folks. And it isn't solely because of anything Ronald Reagan did, or any stupid ass wars started by GWB. Nope, our own spineless running dog corporate lackey leaders are the ones who have sold us out.

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
117. BULLSHIT American exceptionalism
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:28 AM
Nov 2015

When we have a level playing field, Americans out-compete anyone in the world. That’s a fundamental truth about our country.

BULLSHIT

jalan48

(13,860 posts)
12. I was banned from an Obama group here on DU for asking that questiion.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:40 AM
Nov 2015

I was told to show some respect.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
30. Banned for asking a perfectly reasonable question?!!?
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

Actually, I'm not surprised. Look what this administration has done to whistleblowers who are SUPPOSED to have some legal protection. The same rigid intolerance seems to permeate any gathering of his devotees. And to think I once loved the guy...

jalan48

(13,860 posts)
33. I thought the question was perfectly reasonable.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 01:03 PM
Nov 2015

It came at a time when Obama was trying to get Democratic support for his position on the TPP. Virtually no one on DU was defending Obama's position and it made sense to me to ask it in an Obama group. I was banned for not deleting my question since it wasn't a response to the topic of the group.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
57. Authoritarians demand "respect" (read supplication) with no questions allowed.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:34 PM
Nov 2015

Conservatives = Authoritarians and some label themselves as Democrats.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
13. well, the ACA was an enormous corporate power grab. race to the bottom is a huge
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:40 AM
Nov 2015

corporate power grab. The obvious answer to the question in your subject line is, "because he supports every corporate coup, and has since the first day he was in office"

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
14. ummm, this is a little indelicate...
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:41 AM
Nov 2015

Let's just say, Barrack is planning for the future...you know, with future inflation and worries about having enough doh re mi to be "set".

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. Because he thinks it's better than our current trade agreements with these countries
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:42 AM
Nov 2015

I don't get why people find this question so perplexing. We have current trade agreements, with current ISDS arbitration procedures, and Obama seems to think that the TPP is better than those agreements.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
18. His definition of "better" seems to be in conflict with everyone except shills for the ...
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:00 PM
Nov 2015

.... corporations you claim had no input to it. Weird, eh?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. You should read my posts. I said they didn't negotiate it
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:38 PM
Nov 2015

Where you got "no input" is beyond me. Industry, labor, and environmental groups all lobbied the USTR.

And his definition of "better" seems to be at least mostly in line with most of the career government people who worked on it.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
31. With what we've learned about it, it's clear whoever negotiated it was doing so ...
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:59 PM
Nov 2015

... in a manner that brought maximum benefit to the world's largest corporations at the expense of all the rest of us, but if you want to play semantics with this to try to obscure that fact, that's your prerogative.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
109. For the benefit of the world's largest corporations
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 09:29 AM
Nov 2015

Here's what Masahiko Yamada, former Japanese Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, had to say about USTR Michael Froman:

"私に言わせれば、アメリカの多国籍企業の投資家の代理人みたいな人"
"If you ask me, he (Froman) looks like a representative of investors of American multinational corporations".

Other Japanese politicians have made the following comment:

"TPPが自由貿易というのは真っ赤なウソ。TPPはアメリカの、アメリカによる、アメリカのための利益追求システム"

"Saying TPP is free trade is a big, fat Lie. TPP is a system of America, by America and for America to pursue profits"

ejbr

(5,856 posts)
17. I imagine
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:57 AM
Nov 2015

that those who will prosper from this crap told Obama: "You know how Oswald got blamed for Kennedy? Yeah, well, that wasn't him and your gonna do as follows..."

monicaangela

(1,508 posts)
21. According to White House.Gov
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:08 PM
Nov 2015

This is the reason he supports it:

When we have a level playing field, Americans out-compete anyone in the world. That’s a fundamental truth about our country.

But right now, the rules of global trade put our workers, our businesses, and our values at a disadvantage.

If you’re an autoworker in Michigan, the cars you build face taxes as high as 70 percent in Vietnam. If you’re a worker in Oregon, you’re forced to compete against workers in other countries that set lower standards and pay lower wages just to cut their costs. If you’re a small business owner in Ohio, you might face customs rules that are confusing, costly, and an unnecessary barrier to selling abroad.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership will change that -- and you can read the complete text of it right here.

The TPP is the highest standard trade agreement in history. It eliminates 18,000 taxes that various countries put on American goods. That will boost Made-in-America exports abroad while supporting higher-paying jobs right here at home. And that’s going to help our economy grow.

I know that past trade agreements haven’t always lived up to the hype. So I want to tell you a little bit about what makes this trade agreement so different, and so important.

The TPP includes the strongest labor standards in history, from requiring a minimum wage and worker safety regulations to prohibiting child labor and forced labor. It also includes the strongest environmental commitments in history, requiring countries in one of the most biologically diverse areas on Earth to crack down on illegal wildlife trafficking, illegal logging, and illegal fishing. These standards are at the core of the agreement and are fully enforceable -- which means we can bring trade sanctions against countries that don’t step up their game.

And for the first time ever, we’ll have a multilateral trade agreement that reflects the reality of the digital economy by promoting a free and open Internet and by preventing unfair laws that restrict the free flow of data and information.

In other words, the TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century. When it comes to Asia, one of the world’s fastest-growing regions, the rulebook is up for grabs. And if we don’t pass this agreement -- if America doesn’t write those rules -- then countries like China will. And that would only threaten American jobs and workers and undermine American leadership around the world.

That’s why I am posting the text of this agreement here for you to read and explore.

There’s a lot in here, so we’ve put together summaries of each chapter to help you navigate what’s in the agreement and what these new standards will mean for you.

Read it all in full right here.

I know that if you take a look at what’s actually in the TPP, you will see that this is, in fact, a new type of trade deal that puts American workers first.

Take a look. Then make up your mind.

-- President Barack Obama

For those who haven't found the agreement yet, or who want to read it, here's the link: https://medium.com/the-trans-pacific-partnership

I have been reading the actual Agreement, and can't for the life of me figure out where he is getting all this BS that he is saying in the aforementioned WH.Gov statement. Does he think that this will somehow give the U.S. control of the rest of the parties participating and the world for that manner? Does he find someplace in this agreement a definite manner in which this nation can write the laws for all nations in the world? Doesn't he understand that it is CORPORATIONS that will be making all of these decisions, and the fact that corporate control hasn't worked out too good for the world so far.

I truly have no idea as to why he is supporting this unless he is actual more of a corporate democrat than I believed he was. I tell you the truth about my opinion, we really don't need anyone that is going to continue his policies if this is an example of what he wants continued. I watched the MSNBC forum with Rachel Maddow last night, and more than ever I believe we need BERNIE SANDERS and his ideas and policies to lead this nation after Obama leaves office. This Trade Agreement is exactly what Obama got into office saying he would oppose. I voted for him, WHAT HAPPENED?

zalinda

(5,621 posts)
29. The problem is that
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

those in other countries who want to buy American goods, already do. They are the people who can afford it and use it as a status symbol. Small businesses do not export product, unless it is something that is a specialty. Big businesses have always been able to export product, in fact our country gave them money to do so. As far as I know, Coke and Pepsi are still receiving government help to advertise their products overseas.

When I had a small business, more like a micro business, one person running it, I could import easily. In the beginning it was a little difficult to find the people to help me jump through the hoops, but once in place, easy peasy. As long as you had the money, you can import. I had started the business with all American made products, but could no longer find more products to add to the line. And, one company, huge company, that I was dealing with, when I talked to the production supervisor, had no idea what I was talking about. A very basic concept that most home sewers know about, he had absolutely no idea what that was. His comment, we haven't had any one else complain, so we'll keep doing it the same way. I have to wonder if they are still in business.

While I can understand raising the wages for other countries, their standard of living is way below ours. They do not have to pay $600 for a living space. That $600 could possibly last them for an entire year of living expenses, depending on the country.

I think Obama is not living in the real world, and hasn't for a long, long time. My ex-father-in-law once told me of a garage sale that was taking place, because he thought I liked going to them. The fact is, I didn't like going to garage sales, but that was all I could afford. He had absolutely no idea, it never crossed his mind. If you don't know what's going on with the working class, how can you help them? Bernie eats lunch with the working class in DC, he doesn't lunch with the other representatives, but with those who really keep the government building running, like the janitors, etc.

Z

monicaangela

(1,508 posts)
79. I agree Zalinda
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:57 PM
Nov 2015

It appears President Obama is either out of touch, or trying to make us believe he is out of touch. Reading the agreement I don't find anything that solidifies a living wage for workers in this country. As a matter of fact, the way it reads is that if workers in this country try to organize against a corporation and ask for higher wages, that company can sue because those workers would be costing them profits if they were somehow to win a lawsuit in court. By the way, cases against these corporations will no longer be going to court it appears, they will instead be going to arbitration and guess who we will have to appear in front of if we have a grievance? You guessed it, members of the corporations, 3 to be exact. Corporate lobbyist who will be selected as arbitrators. The agreement also does absolutely nothing to prevent forced labor or slave labor in the smaller and weaker nations that will be a part of the agreement. I think the toughest language against that is we will strongly suggest countries follow the rules and not participate in these practices or something to that effect. I mean, really I'm wondering if the President himself has read this stuff, and the TPP is only the beginning, there are 2 or 3 other agreements that are connected to this. I found this article over at Public Citizen very interesting: http://www.citizen.org/tpp

I guess it's time to begin calling our congressmen and women and threatening their jobs if they vote to pass this monstrosity. I believe it is also a good idea for every caring citizen to start discussing this with family, friends, and neighbors so that all who will be affected by this are informed.

Thank you for replying to my comment, thank you for this informative post Zalinda, and thanks for sharing your example of what is happening in business these days. You are correct about us being able to import goods already. Just order anything online, and if it is made outside the country it will be imported and will reach you within days. We don't need this agreement. We definitely need Bernie Sanders and his approach to government for our next President. I am donating to his campaign, I am volunteering with his organization here where I live. I am networking with friends and family in just about every state in the country, and am trying my best to get everyone I know to realize Bernie is our only choice.

We sure don't need Hillary Clinton, someone who is more out of touch than Obama in office IMHO. Hope your situation has gotten better and that you can afford more than what you might find at a garage sale these days; however, sometimes I believe a person can find some things at yard sales and garage sales that are of much better quality than you can find in the stores these days.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
35. Here's a link to what the TTP says, about itself.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 01:20 PM
Nov 2015

It's laced with a lot of flowery pro-worker pro-environment platitudes, which I suspect are contrary to
all the devils in the details.

https://medium.com/the-trans-pacific-partnership/initial-provisions-and-general-definitions-aec6d5031f1b

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
67. I think there was some terrible arm twisting behind the scenes.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:23 PM
Nov 2015

I think it was that -- "or else." Do not forget, the transnational corporations control immense wealth and resources and psychologists tell us that their CEOs are quite likely sociopaths.

Until we defang them, they can pretty much get whatever they want.

Bernie will work to defang them.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
77. The simplest answer is that he agrees with it.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 08:50 PM
Nov 2015

I'd need to see some evidence of his dislike for it before any other answer is possible.

Martin Eden

(12,863 posts)
85. I think that makes the most sense
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:31 PM
Nov 2015

Seems unlikely he's been threatened into promoting it or he needs whatever personal financial reward he might gain.

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
107. I am in agreement with that statement. In the long run, what he has done so far has shown to be
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 08:38 AM
Nov 2015

advantageous. I cannot accept that he would do a treaty that would fuck over the public. It defies logic. The one statement that rings true is the one on getting rid of tariffs on our exports. That alone would reduce cost to others and make our products more viable. What I have seen posted so far, is not favorable at all. But, has anyone researched out what those tariffs are that would be omitted and what benefit it would prove? Obama is just not the kind of person who would do that, IMHO. There has to be something there that is not being immediately seen. He's just not that dumb.

Martin Eden

(12,863 posts)
108. Just because Obama agrees with it doesn't make it a good deal
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 08:46 AM
Nov 2015

I'm not qualified to evaluate such a complex agreement, but I don't think the objections raised about specific provisions are fabricated and/or entirely misleading.

I've had strong disagreements with Obama about a few important issues during his presidency, and this will likely be another. He's more centrist than he was made out to be, and I think two terms in power among the elites has got him thinking like them in terms of the global competition between nations.

dickthegrouch

(3,172 posts)
20. I just wrote both my Senators
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:05 PM
Nov 2015

and told them "I support President Obama in most things, NOT THIS, NOT EVER!"

Corporations already fine us in the form of $35 late fees and 29.9% interest if we're a day late in our payments. Think what this travesty will allow them to do. We'll all become paupers. As if the ravages of the downturns in 2001 and 2007 haven't done enough to devastate the middle class and our savings accounts and our home ownership, and our salaries in our replacement jobs after years of unemployment.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO on the TPP

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
22. Sounds like Bill Murray.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:15 PM
Nov 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
124. They never give up.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:00 PM
Nov 2015

All handful of them. I've learned that they think the boot won't be on their neck too. That somehow the world will spare them along with Owners. Pathetic, backard thinking that will get us the best child labor money can buy! Thankfully it is all of 5 posters here. Or 6. Who knows they all act like corporate radicals.

One reason I like DU, nobody is fooled by the corporate bullshit.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
38. The "conspiracy theories" president Obama chided us for turned out to be an actual conspiracy.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 01:35 PM
Nov 2015

Who could have guessed 600 transnational corporations and their lobbyists working in secret would have created an agreement detrimental to the public interest.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
39. Corporate bootlickers love it!
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 01:38 PM
Nov 2015

I cannot wait to watch them get crushed under the same boot. They are such myopic and delusional people. Or they just don't care about the planet. Take your pick.

This deal well seal the deal for the richest in the world. Maybe they can collect the remaining 48% global wealth before the 80 people that have the other 52% get it first. The TPP is their wetdream come true.

We, the working stiffs, are fucked. The deck will be stacked completely against us now.



pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
92. Hillary REJECTED the final document that resulted from the years of negotiations.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 03:59 AM
Nov 2015

She had hope for it several years ago, but the problems with it couldn't be worked out.

When she was Secretary of State, she had hoped that the TPP would represent the "gold standard" in new trade deals, as she expressed in a speech in 2012. But as anyone who has studied these trade deals knows, the devil is in the details -- and Clinton was not in charge of the final talks that produced the details of the TPP. Now that Clinton knows what was negotiated, she has decided she doesn't support the agreement. As she explained, "I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, 'this will help raise your wages.' And I concluded I could not."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-singh-grewal/why-hillary-clinton-is-ri_b_8295420.html

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
51. I had a post hiiden by jury for cussing out Obama because of the TPP.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 04:53 PM
Nov 2015

One juror commented that I can't do that to a democratic president on Democratic Underground. Democratic? DINO is most likely to fit the D after his name.

Obama has sold out the American people lock, stock and barrel. If this is not stopped and whether we like it or not, one thing we can look forward to is the end of internet freedom, or not look forward to it, depending on your view.

Hotler

(11,420 posts)
52. A la lanterene! It's time for a revolution people.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:02 PM
Nov 2015

"If there is no sustained popular uprising to prevent the passage of the TPP in Congress this spring we will be shackled by corporate power. Wages will decline. Working conditions will deteriorate. Unemployment will rise. Our few remaining rights will be revoked.

It's time to get fighting mad and take to the streets by the tens of thousnds. Revolutions are not pretty, are not easy and are dangerous, but this needs to be done sooner than later. Voting, phone calls to elected officals and sitting behind the keyboard bitching will not stop the TTP.

If we had a full blown revolution back in 2007 when Wall St. crashed this country we might not be talking about this now.

You get a hundred thousand people standing behind me i will stand at the front and take the first baton strike, the first tazer, the first gun shot.

Organize now or forever be a slave.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
54. ... AND OBAMA, the DINO, RAMMED it Home.... to momma
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:16 PM
Nov 2015

IT simply doesn't matter WHAT you think Barry has done for you. TPP negates almost everything.
WHy?

Because TPP is set up to TRUMP EVERYTHING!

Obamacare, XL Pipeline, Drilling in the Arctic, Medicare Expansion, anything you want to put here...

Everything Obama has 'accomplished' for the American People can, and WILL be destroyed by TPP.

Wanta bet?

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
60. Exactly. With the TPP, any regulation that affects profits, or expected profits, will be challenged
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 06:28 PM
Nov 2015

in a private court. The TPP makes a mockery of sovereign nations and their laws.

No vote for anyone who had/has anything to do with passing this. Voting for it or shilling for it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
66. Only Nixon could to to China
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:04 PM
Nov 2015

Only a nominally "Democratic" president, who described himself as a "moderate 1980s Republican" could finalize the sale of the country to corporate interests and banksters.

We wuz HAD, people. Royally.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
75. Knock off the 'Barry' shit, wise-ass.
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 08:31 PM
Nov 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
123. Bark at the moon - He sold us out Completely with TPP
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:56 PM
Nov 2015

TPP negates anything that the fascists oligarchs want to negate. Barry isn't stupid. He has made his bones.
I'll call him any damn thing I want to.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
58. Storm The Bastille
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:42 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sat Nov 7, 2015, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Let Hillary and all the other elites know that we aren't going to eat their cake. In fact we are going to spit it back in their faces.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
68. Damnit, Millenials need to fight this. Big Corporations are taking away their future
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:26 PM
Nov 2015

At least older generations have been able to live more of their life under relatively decent times. Now we have pure dystopia coming like a storm.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
69. Happy Kick
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:32 PM
Nov 2015

well, not happy but glad to be able to kick truth - better than spending time dispelling lies, I guess.

Skittles

(153,150 posts)
80. hey, DU's resident corporate whore-meister has not contributed here yet?
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:58 PM
Nov 2015

he won't be getting his bonus

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
112. This is everything we thought it was, and WORSE...
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 10:01 AM
Nov 2015

It's everything Hillary Clinton stumped for when she knew, purposely hidden from the American public.

We weren't invited to that party.... Now, she's thought more about it... and changed her position.

Sure....

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
120. A lot of people have labored and invested, hard, for us to get here.
Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:50 AM
Nov 2015

For themselves and the corporations they own, the world is their oyster. This is just one more natural extension of the desires of shareholders. More for them and less for everyone else. Even at the expense of everything they scoff and swat at flies.

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