General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Wine Train Thing Happened to Another Group of Passengers, This Time Latino
The latest report comes after the removal of a group of mostly black women from the train following a similar complaint against them, the difference in this second case being that the group was only threatened with removal and not actually ultimately removed.
Norma Ruiz, a graduate student in the University of CaliforniaSan Franciscos nursing program, was celebrating her 28th birthday in April when a patron approached her party of 10 people to say that they were being annoying and loud.
We were kind of taken by surprise because we were just celebrating my birthday having normal conversation, Ruiz told me.....Yale sociology professor Elijah Anderson has described how white spaces are overwhelmingly white neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, restaurants, and other public spaces where people of color can feel a burden to prove their belonging.
....
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/25/napa_valley_wine_train_discrimination_another_passenger_thinks_she_was_discriminated.html?wpisrc=obnetwork
smh!
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Certainly a wine train in Napa Valley would be considered a white space, says University of CaliforniaBerkeley associate professor Nikki Jones, who has discussed the topic on This American Life.
One of the things you hear again and again from women of color, including in spaces like this, in retail settings, is that theres a hyper-visibility, Jones told me. They stand out in particular places. And theyre policed. The policing can come from actual police (cops greeted the book club when they were removed from the train), from authorities within a space (like train employees), or from fellow patrons of that space (like complaining train passengers).
i think this is so important and would love for people to take the time to understand this. i have been experiencing my own insight about this.... in so many ways, that has brought an awareness and better understanding.
it is not about blame, it is about recognizing.
MADem
(135,425 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'd have to, living where I do, which is ALL white space.
It's really the only thing I miss about So Cal; the people there.
I'd love to see less white space and more real space.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)I've been there several times (gorgeous place), and socioeconomically, you're basically slamming into a lot of upper/middle middle class whites who never seem quite cool with groups of people of color coming in. Lots of looks, knowing glances, pursed lips.
Love the area and the wine. The people, ehhhhhhh. They like their pristine little bubble.
Of course, I'm generalizing. I'm sure there are plenty of wonderful people who live there. But there's definitely an impression I've been left with.
MADem
(135,425 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,384 posts)I'm just saying.
I'd post photos but all of them seem to link back to Free Republic, why is that?
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I've never heard of it.
Brother Buzz
(36,384 posts)The Tea Party Express tour "symbolically" started in Harry Reid's hometown, Searchlight, Nevada, but quietly started in Napa, California, hoping to collect idiots along the way. It did.
Here's a local story you may have missed:
Tea Party Express rally falls short of early billings
600 people who attended the Tea Party Express Reclaiming America bus tour at the Napa Valley Expo, are seen during the singing of the National Anthem on Saturday morning.
August 27, 2011
On Saturday, roughly 600 people gathered on the sprawling carnival grounds of the Napa Valley Expo for the so-called super rally that would kick off the Tea Party Express Reclaiming America bus tour.
The turnout was a far cry from the 4,000 to 5,000 people that representatives from Tea Party Express Sacramento office said they were expecting only days before the Napa rally.
Tea party supporters, who skewed older, were a mostly subdued group, seated picnic-like on lawn chairs and blankets for two hours of music and speeches.
Adding to the events dampened atmosphere was that no GOP presidential candidates appeared, despite reports that at least one would be attending. Also, the event was met with vocal protests from several hundred representatives of the Democratic and Green parties and progressive groups.
<more>
http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/tea-party-express-rally-falls-short-of-early-billings/article_f26775ca-d0e9-11e0-9559-001cc4c002e0.html
Palin joint the circus later on:
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)cstanleytech
(26,242 posts)I dont drink liquor in any form but I wonder if its really discrimination or if its simply a matter of the people running the tours trying to get some of their guests not to be disruptive to the other guests by talking to loud, probably need a larger sample rate to say for sure.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I have no love for the wine train, but the venue is high-end (rolling) restaurant. Loud and raucous behavior would not be tolerated in any other high-end restaurant. Why should it be tolerated on the train?
iandhr
(6,852 posts)Just a guess
Going up to people and saying "excuse me (Mr/Ms.) you are talking a being a little loud would you mind talking a little more quietly. If you say that to some one calmly and respectfully that probably would produce a good result.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)So most were probably white groups.
Every group probably thought they weren't too loud either.
As a former bartender, I take the noise level claims of drunk/drinking groups with a large grain of salt.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)Napa is full of very wealthy, precious little buckets of pretentiousness who look down their nose at the slobbering masses that visit "their" valley. From their perspective, it's "unseemly" to be loud. Or to get tipsy while you're drinking. Or to wear denim. Hell, some of them get upset if you SWALLOW your wine ("Swish and spit my dear, we're tasting, not drinking. This isn't a bar!"
And when they judge you, they don't do it quietly and respectfully. They make snide comments, take long disapproving glances, and will do whatever they can to make you feel unwanted. I'm as lily white as they come, and I've been a target of it.
Napa is beautiful and the wine is awesome, but the people there REALLY suck. If you want to taste wine without dealing with the pretentious, judgmental bullshit, head over to Sonoma, or to Lodi, or down to Paso. Hell, even Livermore has great wines.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I too enjoy Sonoma more.
I drink my wine!
jalan48
(13,842 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)That is the first question.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)The wine train consists confined spaces. it doesn't take much to be too loud in a small space.
Most often, from my external observation, the cars are more empty than full. Get one of those things mostly full and the noise escalates quickly.
GOLGO 13
(1,681 posts)A couple talking in a Barnes & Noble in a normal tone were "Sssshushed" by some weirdo and got reminded that we're not in a library. It's a very, very expensive area of Yonkers where outsiders are readily marked & the local PD have a legendary history of aggressiveness towards visitors from the Bronx.
Nothing came of it, but it reminded me of where I was.