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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:37 PM Aug 2015

IRS Getting Pressured To Crack Down On Televangelists Following John Oliver’s Segment

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/08/20/irs-televangelists-john-oliver/

The IRS is getting pressured to begin cracking down on televangelists following a John Oliver segment on HBO’s “Last Week Tonight.”

Oliver blasted televangelists this past Sunday for what he called “seed faith,” where they tell donors they will reap the rewards by giving money to them.

“They preach something called the prosperity gospel which argues that wealth is a sign of God’s favor and donations will result in wealth coming back to you. That idea sometimes takes the form of seed faith – the notion that donations are seeds that you will one day get to harvest,” Oliver said in the segment.

He continued, “The argument is ‘sow your money into the ground, you will reap returns multiple times over,’ except as an investment you’d be better off burying your money in the actual ground because at least that way there’s a chance your dog may dig it up and give it back to you one day.”
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IRS Getting Pressured To Crack Down On Televangelists Following John Oliver’s Segment (Original Post) KamaAina Aug 2015 OP
He would be a good VP cilla4progress Aug 2015 #1
The birthers would eat him alive KamaAina Aug 2015 #8
Not qualified to be president..He's a naturalized citizen SoCalDem Aug 2015 #25
Oliver seems to be taking this to a much higher level... Change has come Aug 2015 #96
Between him and Larry Wilmore. . . DinahMoeHum Aug 2015 #103
Warren would be the best VP for Bernie musiclawyer Aug 2015 #40
She's not interested, but I think Robert Reich would be great. nt valerief Aug 2015 #45
+1 hifiguy Aug 2015 #58
+2 I'll second that!! nt haikugal Aug 2015 #63
One white man on the ticket cilla4progress Aug 2015 #76
I don't vote for color. I'm interested in ideas and ability. haikugal Aug 2015 #80
All of the above. cilla4progress Aug 2015 #86
He is the one that has been groomed for the spot. That's why he gave the 2012 keynote tblue37 Aug 2015 #107
No--we need her kicking butt and taking names in the Senate. The idea that only the presidency tblue37 Aug 2015 #106
The IRS should be ashamed to let this crap go on. Vinca Aug 2015 #2
Afer my mother in law died, we looked through her checkbook SoCalDem Aug 2015 #29
I'm pretty sure my grandmother did that, too. Vinca Aug 2015 #41
My father intercepted a $600 check his wife wrote to Benny Hinn flygal Aug 2015 #85
My mom 87 donates to Joel Olsteen marlakay Aug 2015 #110
Hi, Marla! cilla4progress Aug 2015 #112
This is the part that really bugs me passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #43
Teevee preachers, and a lot of others as well. hifiguy Aug 2015 #60
About time! - ruffburr Aug 2015 #3
You have to love some Creflo Dollar, don't you? jmowreader Aug 2015 #39
And it makes no sense logically. Springslips Aug 2015 #47
The line between religion and criminal fraud DirkGently Aug 2015 #4
I cast my bread upon the water, bvar22 Aug 2015 #5
There, there. Damn ducks. Solly Mack Aug 2015 #9
They have to duck out. hifiguy Aug 2015 #11
That analogy packman Aug 2015 #17
Teehee. Solly Mack Aug 2015 #52
A big shout-out to John Oliver for this public service. Paladin Aug 2015 #6
John Oliver has done a lot for us in the short time he's been on HBO! haikugal Aug 2015 #67
The IRS... Rex Aug 2015 #7
This I gotta see. hifiguy Aug 2015 #10
It's included at this Alternet link Fuddnik Aug 2015 #12
Thanx! hifiguy Aug 2015 #15
And here Fuddnik Aug 2015 #13
These fuckers should be tarred, feathered and then hifiguy Aug 2015 #20
why not both? frylock Aug 2015 #88
That is a very good question. nt hifiguy Aug 2015 #98
Sounds like Pyramid Scheme 101. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #14
Ponzi has been a role model for more preachers than for regular con men. hifiguy Aug 2015 #16
We simply must teach our children how to easily spot a Con. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #18
Some people really cannot be reached passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #48
There's actually a book about this very topic. hifiguy Aug 2015 #57
I am into holistic health, paleo diet, dropped blood sugar from 183 to 95. It's the way to go, heal with Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #64
My sister gave me a pretty quartz crystal necklace passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #71
What turned your sister away from Scientology? She's into so much other LuckyLib Aug 2015 #82
She married another Scientologist who was a real wacko passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #83
You and I must be sisters or brothers from another mother and we share the same sister. Stardust Aug 2015 #79
welcome to the haze passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #81
That very well could be! Stardust Aug 2015 #90
We must learn to honor diversity and abhor put-downs against others. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #113
The preachercreatures do not have to promise the returns. douggg Aug 2015 #24
And if you believe that, hifiguy Aug 2015 #27
Have the faith, brother! douggg Aug 2015 #32
Ages ago, I had a client (Family singing group) SoCalDem Aug 2015 #31
In CASH, eh? hifiguy Aug 2015 #33
It isn't even that good. Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #35
So it's like a, hmm, what geometric figure fits? Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #68
RELIGION - when the first fool met the first con man packman Aug 2015 #19
Yep. Ol' Sam Clemens was right then hifiguy Aug 2015 #21
Not all religion is bad passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #49
Faith isn't necessarily bad.... paleotn Aug 2015 #104
religion started with people worshiping the sun passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #108
Isn't it amazing when comedians are doing the job that used to be that of journalists?! DiehardLiberal Aug 2015 #22
Bingo! Comedy Central and HBO are our new News networks. nt valerief Aug 2015 #51
Well, what do you know!!! 90-percent Aug 2015 #23
Zappa started dumping vats of rhetorical sulfuric acid hifiguy Aug 2015 #26
Broadway The Hard Way is easily my favorite live FZ album. Initech Aug 2015 #95
It's great but gads I love hifiguy Aug 2015 #97
Broadway The Hard Way!!! Initech Aug 2015 #93
Nassau Coliseum Long Island 1988 90-percent Aug 2015 #99
good. spanone Aug 2015 #28
Just really look into Scientology. classykaren Aug 2015 #30
The IRS did engage in a major battle with Scientology and eventually threw in the towel. PoliticAverse Aug 2015 #46
Have you seen "Going Clear" yet? Initech Aug 2015 #94
NOW they think that they should look at this??? Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #34
He went above and beyond a skit, he started his own church A Little Weird Aug 2015 #42
I guess that I can't donate. Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #50
That's due to Pennsylvania law. PoliticAverse Aug 2015 #59
I don't know what law it is, but Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #65
It's not that you can't donate but rather the requirements for the organization soliciting donations PoliticAverse Aug 2015 #72
I donate to doctor's without borders, so that would be a worthy cause! passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #53
The Dudeists are still around. hifiguy Aug 2015 #56
Yes, but Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #74
Too much hassle, man. hifiguy Aug 2015 #75
I prefer Black Russians. Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #78
This reminded me of Colbert starting a pac marlakay Aug 2015 #111
Oliver did a segment on the IRS as well. It's underfunded, has an ancient computer system... Moonwalk Aug 2015 #69
The IRS's computer problems are somewhat of their own doing, they even adandoned an upgrade PoliticAverse Aug 2015 #73
You are right. Curmudgeoness Aug 2015 #77
This is classic....................... turbinetree Aug 2015 #36
I volunteered at an assisted living house and this crap was playing on the tube.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #37
Tilton, the 'Farting Preacher' of YouTube fame, should be behind bars. nt wolfie001 Aug 2015 #38
I was 6 years old and I knew that "God needs your money!" meme by televangelists was bullcrap. 4lbs Aug 2015 #44
Almost all churches do this to a degree passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #54
That was one of the most delicious segments he's done since his mid-term election ads~! nt MADem Aug 2015 #55
Good, it's WAY OVERDUE Warpy Aug 2015 #61
Oliver certainly has been doing some great shows. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2015 #62
Time to end all religious exemptions. F4lconF16 Aug 2015 #66
Best of luck changing the 1st Amendment. n/t ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #100
The 1st Amendment says nothing about taxing churches. Frank Cannon Aug 2015 #102
Don't be pedantic. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #109
We aren't going to ever stop religious scams and scammers like these. But what we can do... Moonwalk Aug 2015 #70
My grandmother used to listen to this horseshit ashling Aug 2015 #84
Can I get an amen?! frylock Aug 2015 #87
Anyone remember Oral Roberts and Reverend Ike? Hoppy Aug 2015 #89
Kick and R BeanMusical Aug 2015 #91
John Oliver definitely did a good thing here. Dare I say Emmy? Initech Aug 2015 #92
That was a brilliant segment PatSeg Aug 2015 #101
Good! End the church tax exemption altogether. It's just wrong. nt tblue37 Aug 2015 #105

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
25. Not qualified to be president..He's a naturalized citizen
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:48 PM
Aug 2015

I'm so glad he has picked up the torch left by Jon Stewart

tblue37

(65,336 posts)
107. He is the one that has been groomed for the spot. That's why he gave the 2012 keynote
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:09 PM
Aug 2015

speech at the DNC, like Clinton, Obama, and Kerry before him.

tblue37

(65,336 posts)
106. No--we need her kicking butt and taking names in the Senate. The idea that only the presidency
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:07 PM
Aug 2015

is worth seeking or worth it for people to vote for is a significant factor in creating our current mess.

Ted Kennedy became the effective "Lion of the Senate" once he stopped trying to be president and started focusing on the very important job of legislating. Kerry, too, was an influential senator, but gave that up to chase the presidency.

Vinca

(50,269 posts)
2. The IRS should be ashamed to let this crap go on.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:46 PM
Aug 2015

Televangelists are, 99.9% of the time, nothing but scamsters out to turn a buck . . . or a few million bucks. They prey upon the dimmer among us and live like royalty and it's all tax free. Oliver's piece was both funny and heartbreaking when you think that the one foolish woman kept sending in money as "seeds" rather than seeking treatment for her cancer.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
29. Afer my mother in law died, we looked through her checkbook
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:51 PM
Aug 2015

We had to figure out which checks had not cleared so we could close her bank account..
This woman's SS check was $203.00 a month, and she had written $20 checks to:

Jerry Falwell
that Schuller guy
Tammy Fay & Jim
Robertson
Tillman
and a few others..

and she did it fairly regularly

Vinca

(50,269 posts)
41. I'm pretty sure my grandmother did that, too.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:46 PM
Aug 2015

She was in a similar financial circumstance in the last years of her life. What made the whole thing even odder was that she had never been religious during her life, only going to church for a wedding or funeral. I think the scamsters primarily target the elderly who often live alone and have no one to ask them why they're send twenty bucks a week to a greedy fool like Creflo Dollar.

flygal

(3,231 posts)
85. My father intercepted a $600 check his wife wrote to Benny Hinn
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:47 PM
Aug 2015

She was convinced the more she gave the MORE she'd get. She also got sucked into a pyramid gifting program but lost her own money.

I seriously thought after the late eighties round up of those scam artists that this would never happen. It only got worse.

marlakay

(11,451 posts)
110. My mom 87 donates to Joel Olsteen
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:12 PM
Aug 2015

Mega church guy from Texas. And she sends money to some prayer group that promises to pray for you...

I have tried to say something, goes no where.

I think they take advatage of older people and their faith, its sickening since these people are rich getting from almost poor seniors.


passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
43. This is the part that really bugs me
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:57 PM
Aug 2015

Not only do they get to scam the weak, leaving them penniless (like Scientology did to my sister), but they don't even have to pay taxes on all that wealth because this scam is called "religion".

One day we will be smart enough to realize that all humanitarian donations have to be controlled by someone to make sure that is what they really are being used for, or you have to pay taxes on them.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
60. Teevee preachers, and a lot of others as well.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:33 PM
Aug 2015

realized that they can run perfectly legal Ponzi schemes without even having to promise riches, just pie in the sky when you die.

Tar and feathers are called for and I'm not kidding about these fucking parasites.

ruffburr

(1,190 posts)
3. About time! -
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:46 PM
Aug 2015

I have never understood how people can be so gullible as to believe the line of pure horse crap these preachers spout , By the way God told me to tell you all that I need a new Lear jet so I can spread his word about the new house I need to entertain the true believers and share God's word of wealth.

jmowreader

(50,556 posts)
39. You have to love some Creflo Dollar, don't you?
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:40 PM
Aug 2015

He didn't need a "new Lear jet" - he needed a new Gulfstream G650 - which is much nicer than a Lear, and also harder to get. The weird thing is, if you look at what they plan to do with the plane you can't help but think an airliner would better meet his needs.

Springslips

(533 posts)
47. And it makes no sense logically.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:07 PM
Aug 2015

If they are asking for money it means they don't have it, which by their own account means they are not favored by God. Therefor, God doesn't want you to send them money.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
4. The line between religion and criminal fraud
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:00 PM
Aug 2015


... can be blurry. A poor woman Oliver highlighted apparently foreswore actual medical treatment for cancer in favor of sending money to one of these Bible-oil salesmen.

And died.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
5. I cast my bread upon the water,
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:06 PM
Aug 2015

...and the ducks immediately ate it.
I did not get a 7 fold return.
In fact, they didn't even pretend to be my friends after I ran out of bread.

I had a sad.

Paladin

(28,254 posts)
6. A big shout-out to John Oliver for this public service.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:06 PM
Aug 2015

A $6.4 million parsonage? Lord help us all.....

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
20. These fuckers should be tarred, feathered and then
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:33 PM
Aug 2015

either (1) run out of town on a rail or (2) set on fire.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
16. Ponzi has been a role model for more preachers than for regular con men.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:28 PM
Aug 2015

It's even BETTER, because the preachercreatures never even promise to make the marks and chumps rich, like Ponzi did. They just take the money and buy Gulfstreams and estates. And the cretins keep sending these charlatans even MORE MONEY.

Jefferson was right, we need a lot more freedom FROM religion in this benighted and superstitious wasteland called 'murka.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
48. Some people really cannot be reached
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:08 PM
Aug 2015

My sister is one. She has always gone for the flakiest stuff out there. She is into holistic health and flower oils and all kinds of things that have never been proven to be effective. She lives in poverty and has a house full of rescue animals, and spends all her money on health food and natural products to keep everyone healthy. She was also a Scientologist for years. Thank dog that's over with.

But some people are just born strange and there is nothing we can do to protect them, short of locking them up. We have to let them do what they will, no matter how much it hurts to watch.

Because there are people like this out there, there will always be hucksters taking advantage of them, and it's our job to make sure we protect them as much as possible by controlling and stopping the hucksters. But we don't do that now. The FDA does somewhat, but not nearly enough. There are all kinds of people selling miracle cures for weight loss, diabetes (Huckabee?) and all kinds of other health issues. It's a huge industry...selling to the vulnerable.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
57. There's actually a book about this very topic.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:30 PM
Aug 2015
Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer.

And let me put in here a plug for Shermer's The Moral Arc, as important and thought-provoking a book as I have ever read.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
64. I am into holistic health, paleo diet, dropped blood sugar from 183 to 95. It's the way to go, heal with
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:43 PM
Aug 2015

nature. Visited cardiologist BP and heart, healthy! Herbs, organic vegetables, meditation, calming aromatherapy, acupuncture, it all works.

Drug companies and for profit private health care companies HATE holistic healing. It "steals" from their profit margin because it is a permanent fix for many modern diseases.

But Scientology, yikes I knew that was crap when I was 18 and went to a meeting. Never went back. I sure don't want to live in poverty, too much struggle! Now Pat Robertson, that's one sick billionaire lying scammer.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
71. My sister gave me a pretty quartz crystal necklace
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:31 PM
Aug 2015

It was supposed to make me wealthy.

Didn't work.

Seriously though, I have two sisters into the natural health stuff. Both are massage therapists. One is more normal and not as obsessed with the more off the wall stuff, but she still uses homeopathy. She is not fit...she is getting pretty damn heavy (stress) and it's not healthy for her. It has never helped me the times I've tried it, upon their insistence. Healthy eating, of course it good for everyone. That's a natural "cure" for many people. But that's not what I'm talking about.

The other sister has just always been weird...even as a little kid. And she should have been as prosperous as my other sis, but even after leaving scientology, she just could never get herself into a good place financially. She is always working for someone who is taking advantage of her...until finally a few years ago she moved to OK and finally works for herself...but she does not get full-time clients, so the wages just aren't enough. She probably doesn't charge enough either to get the clients she has now. She is already on early SS retirement to supplement her low income, and struggles every day to take care of her seven dogs and three or five cats. I don't know long she will be able to keep doing massage...she is in good health and fit, but she's almost 67 and can't work forever. Massage is a physical job. Once she loses that income, I have no idea how she will survive. She only gets a couple hundred a month on SS. She is the only one of us kids who has never owned her own house. She struggles all the time to find a place she can afford to rent. She is into everything there is out there. Crystals, magnets, flower oils, all homeopathy stuff. I don't know if she has tried acupuncture, the one thing that I think may actually work. I've tried things she has sent me and nothing has ever done a thing for me. I seriously believe most of it is placebo effect. But, if it works for you, I'm glad. More power to you. I just wish my sister could be in a better place in her head. She drives everyone in the family crazy.

LuckyLib

(6,819 posts)
82. What turned your sister away from Scientology? She's into so much other
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:56 PM
Aug 2015

goofy stuff, I'm surprised she caught on to that scam.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
83. She married another Scientologist who was a real wacko
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:13 PM
Aug 2015

And the marriage only lasted two years. When she left him, she moved and dropped out of Scientology. I don't know if he is what woke her up or not. I'm just glad she dropped out.

When she was in it, she was such a proselytizer and it drove us all nuts.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
81. welcome to the haze
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:43 PM
Aug 2015

I suspect a lot of people have a strange sibling. Or maybe it's really we who are strange and they are the normal ones?

douggg

(239 posts)
24. The preachercreatures do not have to promise the returns.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:44 PM
Aug 2015

They get to 'pass the buck' to God for the results and then can wash their hands of any accountability.

You didn't get the fortune?

That was God's decision.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
31. Ages ago, I had a client (Family singing group)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:55 PM
Aug 2015

I was a travel consultant ..

Every DECEMBER, they booked a swanky trip to Hawaii for their "religious retreat"..

They always booked first class flights
Multiple suites at the BEST hotel of that year
Rented boats & side trips vis rented helicopters to the other islands
Booked golf arrangements

The works..

They visited a local church and put on a "musical performance of faith"

and they always paid in CASH ...

This was in the late 70's and the trips usually ran upwards of $15K,,

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
33. In CASH, eh?
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:07 PM
Aug 2015

Oh, those fine upstanding xtians certainly reported every penny to the IRS as income.

Nope, I can't even type that with a straight face. Can't do it.

Grifters gonna grift.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
35. It isn't even that good.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:13 PM
Aug 2015

Yes, it is a con, but at least with a pyramid scheme, there are some people who do get something out of the investment. With this, the only one getting any money out of it is the preacher. Worse than a pyramid scheme.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
21. Yep. Ol' Sam Clemens was right then
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:37 PM
Aug 2015

and he's more right now than ever. Fleecing the suckers is truly the world's oldest profession.

paleotn

(17,911 posts)
104. Faith isn't necessarily bad....
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:22 PM
Aug 2015

...depending on what that faith is....organized religion, however, was a scam from the beginning, meant only to empower and enrich the few at the expense of the many.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
108. religion started with people worshiping the sun
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:43 PM
Aug 2015

It morphed into organized religion for the reasons you say. I still think a lot of people feel the need for something to put their faith into. Not all organized religion is a scam. Many pastors really believe what they preach. Many are really holy people (meaning good moral people who live what they believe and live to help others).

It is a shame that it has to be based on a myth that others can use to extort money and reign control over the masses.

Televangelists are my favorite bad guy...nobody does this unless they are in it for the money, prestige, power. They are like carny barkers. It should be illegal.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
23. Well, what do you know!!!
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:41 PM
Aug 2015

Frank Zappa performed a Beatles Medley about that.



Frank loathed televangelists and all the scandals of the 80's were put to use on his 1988 World Tour.

Oliver always come up with brilliant things to expose, while practicing some excellent INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM, which is so rare these days, but still an important part of an "Open Society".

-90% Jimmy
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
26. Zappa started dumping vats of rhetorical sulfuric acid
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:48 PM
Aug 2015

on preachers as far back as "You Are What You Is" back in 1981.

According to The Real Frank Zappa book he stumbled across teevee preachers accidentally while channel surfing one afternoon in the late 1970s. FZ kept vampire hours, composing, recording and mixing until early morning and never woke up before the afternoon, when he'd fire up a heater and make breakfast with the teevee on as background noise. To say he could barely believe what he was seeing would be monumental understatement.

Frank hated sanctimony, superstition, stupidity, bullshit, and hypocrisy with an undying passion and he found the perfect target for his eloquent vitriol in preachercreatures.

Initech

(100,065 posts)
95. Broadway The Hard Way is easily my favorite live FZ album.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:20 AM
Aug 2015

He totally railed on televangelist crooks, unnecessary censorship, and the rise of the lunatic fringe republican right. It's history on a rock CD.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
97. It's great but gads I love
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:09 AM
Aug 2015

"Just Another Band From L.A." Probably because it was my first Zappa. First loves are the best loves. "Billy the Mountain" is still great 45 years later and I listen to it regularly. Tons of Conceptual Continuity and Kaylan/Volman were every bit as funny as FZ.

In terms of sheer hysterically funny meanness BWTHW is a true classic, though. A Zappa-less world is a much duller place.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
99. Nassau Coliseum Long Island 1988
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:36 AM
Aug 2015

I went to that show. Met the dynamic Eric Buxton, briefly, and had a brief chat with Dweezil when he was signing autographs.

My first MOI show was Oct 16, 1971 Stony Brook late show. Bought Just Another Band from L.A., because it has all the material from the show I saw. And the rest was 44 years of history.

-jim

Initech

(100,065 posts)
94. Have you seen "Going Clear" yet?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:11 AM
Aug 2015

The IRS and the FBI were investigating Scientology back in the late 80's / early 90's shortly after L. Ron Hubbard died and David Miscavige began running the church. The result? Scientology filed something like 2,300 consecutive lawsuits against the IRS until it caved and gave Scientology its' tax exempt status.

If you haven't seen that movie yet it's an absolute must watch.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
34. NOW they think that they should look at this???
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:09 PM
Aug 2015

All these years that these shysters have been bilking the gullible out of their money, and the IRS is only being pressured to do something because a comedian did a skit on it? I am baffled....at the IRS for never thinking that this was something to look into, and at the people who are just now making noise about it.

A Little Weird

(1,754 posts)
42. He went above and beyond a skit, he started his own church
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:51 PM
Aug 2015

Feel free to donate!

http://www.ourladyofperpetualexemption.com/donate.html


Oliver set up his own church called “Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption” to prove his point.

“Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption will not be able to accept donations from Church supporters from the states of Mississippi, Nevada, Pennsylvania, or South Carolina. We apologize for any inconvenience. Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption may choose to wind down and dissolve in the near future,” the website states. “Upon dissolution, any assets belonging to the Church at that time will be distributed to Doctors Without Borders, a non-profit charitable organization that is tax-exempt under § 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (EIN: 13-3433452) and which provides emergency medical aid in places where it is needed most.”

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
59. That's due to Pennsylvania law.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:33 PM
Aug 2015

From: http://www.ourladyofperpetualexemption.com/donate.html

Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption will not be able to accept donations from Church supporters from the states of Mississippi, Nevada, Pennsylvania, or South Carolina. We apologize for any inconvenience. Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption may choose to wind down and dissolve in the near future. Upon dissolution, any assets belonging to the Church at that time will be distributed to Doctors Without Borders, a non-profit charitable organization that is tax-exempt under § 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (EIN: 13-3433452) and which provides emergency medical aid in places where it is needed most.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
65. I don't know what law it is, but
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:43 PM
Aug 2015

I am surprised that this state has laws against donating to churches....real churches with real 501c status.

This is a really screwed up state, but that takes the cake. Wow, I wonder if they will allow me to donate directly to Doctors Without Borders.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
72. It's not that you can't donate but rather the requirements for the organization soliciting donations
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:33 PM
Aug 2015

I'm guessing Doctors Without Borders has filed appropriate paperwork with Pennsylvania to solicit donations there.



 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
56. The Dudeists are still around.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:28 PM
Aug 2015
http://dudeism.com/

Seriously thinking of getting ordained as a Dudeist minister myself.

From the website:

Probably the earliest form of Dudeism was the original form of Chinese Taoism, before it went all weird with magic tricks and body fluids. The originator of Taoism, Lao Tzu, basically said “smoke ’em if you got ’em” and “mellow out, man” although he said this in ancient Chinese so something may have been lost in the translation.

Down through the ages, this “rebel shrug” has fortified many successful creeds – Buddhism, Christianity, Sufism, John Lennonism and Fo’-Shizzle-my-Nizzlism. The idea is this: Life is short and complicated and nobody knows what to do about it. So don’t do anything about it. Just take it easy, man.
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
75. Too much hassle, man.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:58 PM
Aug 2015

Just make another White Russian and see what happens. League is tomorrow night. Priorities, man.

marlakay

(11,451 posts)
111. This reminded me of Colbert starting a pac
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:23 PM
Aug 2015

To show everyone what a pac was and how you can do anything with money.

Jon is doing great, he is bringing up all the things no one talks about and should!

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
69. Oliver did a segment on the IRS as well. It's underfunded, has an ancient computer system...
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:50 PM
Aug 2015

..and those working for the IRS are basically accounting nerds. And people treat them like they're some great evil and our country would be better off without them. That's how Scientology finally won it's religious status. It accused the IRS of being a bully. The poor accounting nerds never had a chance once Scientology attacked them with ads and lawyers saying they were persecuting a poor, innocent religion. They backed down and let Scientology win.

And at this point, the IRS doesn't even have the teeth they had back when Scientology attacked them. Look at who is in power, who has all the money--the IRS' money was cut by the GOP congress which is funded by corporations that don't want to pay taxes, and wealthy faux religions that don't want to pay taxes.


Three things need to be done if we want the IRS back on its feet and getting money from anyone other than the law-abiding middle class. (1) they have to be given a big enough operating budget. (2) They need to hire not only accounting nerds (and computer people for a whole new system), but those who can and will go after the scammers and not let them get away--bulldog lawyers who won't be scarred of their tactics. The current crop of quiet, nerdy IRS guys who are aging and doing their best with an outdated computer system can't possibly fight big churches with well paid lawyers and access to television where they can say nasty things about the IRS and have their followers abusing IRS agents and voting in congressional representatives that say they'll do away with the IRS. (3) They have to be supported by congress with laws that don't allow such scams.

Quite simply, the laws allowing religious organizations special privileges just because they're religions need to be done away with. If a religion is non-profit, then they can show where their money goes (soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc.) and they won't get taxed. If they cannot prove that they are fully non-profit, then they have to pay. Period. Just being named "a religion" should not allow any organization freedom from paying their taxes. But I seriously doubt this law will be changed unless we really mange to kick out every tea party member and blue dog currently in congress.

Point is, don't blame the IRS for only NOW thinking they should look into it. They haven't the resources. The GOP congress is making sure of that. And WE, the people of the U.S., should have insisted they take care of such long before now. WHY have WE allowed religion a tax-free ride for over 200 years? That's the question.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
77. You are right.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:10 PM
Aug 2015

The IRS budget keeps getting cut, making it harder and harder for them to do the job that they really should be doing. There is so little chance of being audited anymore because of the cuts---and that is just what the GOP no-tax reps want.

Add to that the "accounting nerds" that work for the IRS....who are not the brightest accounting nerds. The best are working at the CPA firms that protect their clients, and those CPA's can usually run rings around the IRS accountants. I worked for a CPA firm, and I have seen how easy it is to confuse and convolute. My opinion is also that many of the IRS accountants are older and are basically just biding their time until retirement. They burned out years ago. The amount of money that can be made in the private sector keeps the IRS from hiring the best. That is a shame.

turbinetree

(24,695 posts)
36. This is classic.......................
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:16 PM
Aug 2015

John Oliver and it reminds of a time long ago when I was unemployed and desperate-------------- 1982.

I called the 700 Club phone lines and asked the sweet woman on the other end if they would send me $500.
This sweet woman told / ask me to send in some money any amount to get a "prayer cloth".
I said, I don't need a "prayer cloth" I need some money to help get through the month, I can't eat a "prayer cloth or have a roof over my head.
She said we can't do that.
I said why
She said that's not what we do here--------------I said really, in a sate of disbelief
I said really, then why do you get a tax break, your suppose to be a "church" to help the poor, down trodden in time of need
Why do you have this scam, because your are designated as a church by the IRS
She said sir, I want to know if you are going to send us some money to spread the word of god and we can send you the "prayer cloth"

I said no thanks I don't need a "prayer cloth" I have my principles and my god doesn't abandon the poor or the down trodden ---based on a "prayer cloth" for greed

So Patty Roberts if you read the post on this thread----------------remember the "prayer cloth" snake oil salesman pitch you initiated a long time ago-------------------your deceitful right wing hypocrite



 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
37. I volunteered at an assisted living house and this crap was playing on the tube....
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:32 PM
Aug 2015

They were claiming a woman paid off her mortgage after, "planting her seed and reaping her supernatural harvest".

They talked about people being able to buy a car, pay off their credit cards, etc.

Then they threw it to their mixed race chorus to sing gospel songs.

Bunch of con artists.

4lbs

(6,855 posts)
44. I was 6 years old and I knew that "God needs your money!" meme by televangelists was bullcrap.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:02 PM
Aug 2015

Really? God needs money?

The same entity that supposedly created the universe and every living thing needs money? God has the power to create everything, but creating money is suddenly outside his sphere of knowledge?

Yeah, right.


EDIT:

And didn't Jesus, supposedly the Son of God, rail against the moneylenders doing business in churches. Isn't this the same thing. Asking for wealth and money in church? Didn't God supposedly, through Moses, strike down those Hebrews that wound up worshipping the Golden Calf, made out of gold (aka money) ?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
54. Almost all churches do this to a degree
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:20 PM
Aug 2015

Asking parishioners to tithe a percentage of their income (no matter how poor they are) to the church.

Warpy

(111,253 posts)
61. Good, it's WAY OVERDUE
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:37 PM
Aug 2015

Televangelism aint church, it's a billion dollar begging business offering false hope for cash.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
66. Time to end all religious exemptions.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:46 PM
Aug 2015

Solves half the problem. Not to mention, with the tax money, we could solve a massive part of poverty in the US. Funny how hypocritical so many churches are--when it comes to private property, their faith in that trumps all else.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
102. The 1st Amendment says nothing about taxing churches.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:19 PM
Aug 2015

Federal income tax didn't even exist until the 16th Amendment.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
109. Don't be pedantic.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:56 PM
Aug 2015

The power to tax is the power to destroy, and any reasonable reading of the 1st Amendment certainly prohibits it. Prior to the Constitution, churches were exempt from colonial and, later, state taxes. These exemptions were incorporated into the federal tax code in 1913.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
70. We aren't going to ever stop religious scams and scammers like these. But what we can do...
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:55 PM
Aug 2015

...is stop them from being so profitable. Religious organizations should not get a tax-free ride in our country. We should do away with that law. The ones who are REALLY doing good, who are really non-profit, will get a tax-free ride just like other non-profits. But just naming oneself a religion shouldn't allow anyone a tax free ride. Why should a church, temple, mosque or any other such place and the organization it serves NOT be taxed? Every single one of them should be audited, and if they can't prove that they're non-profit, they should pay.

Render unto Caesar. Even Jesus said that people should pay their taxes.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
84. My grandmother used to listen to this horseshit
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:43 PM
Aug 2015

She would send a dollar every week or so to brother Greene from Greenville SC

She died in Feb 1972 the day after her 90th birthday. We lived in Harahan, La. at the time. My mother had cancer and that October we moved back to Houston Tx. Mom dis in July 1973. I remember when going through the cars we got at the time. There was a "seed" request to my grandmother from Brother Greene in Greenville SC sent to our house in Houston.

Initech

(100,065 posts)
92. John Oliver definitely did a good thing here. Dare I say Emmy?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:53 AM
Aug 2015

Televangelist is just another term for "career criminal".

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