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Sun May 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

One of the most heatbreaking pictures I've seen. From National Wildlife Federation.





The pain shows so clearly in the mother's face. She's mourning the death of her cub and is being comforted by another.
http://blog.nwf.org/2012/03/wildlife-photos-well-never-forget/

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Reply One of the most heatbreaking pictures I've seen. From National Wildlife Federation. (Original post)
sinkingfeeling May 2012 OP
Blue_Tires May 2012 #1
PatrynXX May 2012 #10
Poll_Blind May 2012 #2
PatrynXX May 2012 #11
Merlot May 2012 #19
freshwest May 2012 #17
Withywindle May 2012 #24
sinkingfeeling May 2012 #33
lunatica May 2012 #3
EC May 2012 #4
pasto76 May 2012 #8
Neoma May 2012 #22
fasttense May 2012 #31
TBF May 2012 #23
Swede Atlanta May 2012 #5
amb123 May 2012 #6
Edim May 2012 #15
99Forever May 2012 #7
Auntie Bush May 2012 #9
lillypaddle May 2012 #12
flvegan May 2012 #13
Odin2005 May 2012 #14
zoechen May 2012 #16
11 Bravo May 2012 #18
Merlot May 2012 #20
zoechen May 2012 #21
Withywindle May 2012 #25
zoechen May 2012 #26
Withywindle May 2012 #34
Merlot May 2012 #27
Zalatix May 2012 #30
fasttense May 2012 #32
BlueIris May 2012 #28
1620rock May 2012 #29

Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:42 AM

1. what happened to the cub?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #1)

Sun May 20, 2012, 01:08 PM

10. so if someone posted this privately on their facebook

would they get banned for it?

good pic

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:42 AM

2. See, I'm an atheist. But I do believe animals basically have the same "consciousness" I do.

And it sure comes across in that picture, doesn't it?

Life is hard on this planet Earth. Always has been, always will be. And the ground everywhere is drenched with the tears of mothers of all kinds.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #2)

Sun May 20, 2012, 01:10 PM

11. you'd be one of the good atheists...

there's others who aren't so cool and they might not see the above..


more power to you

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Response to PatrynXX (Reply #11)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:51 PM

19. There's "good" and "not so cool" people in every group you can name

For example, a lot of christians think the earth is to be used for their own benefit, and animals are there to be used for the good of man. And those who believe the world will end so why bother with conservation.

No need to make the atheist dig on this topic.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #2)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:15 PM

17. +1,000

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #2)

Sun May 20, 2012, 09:26 PM

24. I don't even see this as an atheist vs. believer thing.

You don't have to believe in God or anything supernatural to have empathy for others' pain. Emotions are real to the one feeling them, no matter what, and loss of a loved one is something we can all relate to, a sorrow we all will share in. To think that only humans have such basic and powerful feelings as love, grief, etc. is the height of arrogance. (And frankly, I find the insistence in some sects of Christianity that only humans matter because only humans have "souls" to be the absolute height of that kind of cold, self-aggrandizing ruthless pride.)

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #2)

Mon May 21, 2012, 02:22 PM

33. I'm an atheist and know that animals have souls just as much as humans.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:42 AM

3. It's always heartbreaking when animals mourn

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Response to lunatica (Reply #3)

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:22 PM

4. This one makes me wonder if I'm making my dog

too dependent on me for his happiness. He is so attached to me, my bil once said my dog is like my Siamese twin...attached to me....he's always at my side. It makes me sad that he may be this dog in the picture if anything happened to me. I don't know how to change that possibility.


The picture is sad and yet heartwarming. To see such maternal love in an animal.

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Response to EC (Reply #4)

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:44 PM

8. dogs evolved with man for about 100,000 years

thats a huge chunk of hominid history. They _know_ us. Sometimes better than we do. They are not pack animals, but they are social animals. Their physiology makes them pretty interesting companions and I have learned from them most of my life.

check out this book http://insideofadog.com/. Really, really interesting stuff in there.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #8)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:20 PM

22. Well...

Actually, I remember all the dogs in the neighborhood roaming around together and then they had a fight with my dog one night...

Seem like pack animals to me. Just depends on if they get together with no leashes I guess.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #8)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:46 AM

31. My mother (80 today) says that heaven is where all your previous pet dogs greet you at the gate.

I hope it includes all my pets.

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Response to EC (Reply #4)

Sun May 20, 2012, 09:15 PM

23. My new rescue has some issues with attachment as well -

I try to vary my coming & going, don't make a fuss of her, and I usually am the one in my family to turn in early while they are all still up hanging out together (husband, kids, dogs) ... I'm hoping if I keep it up it will make her less reliant on me - we have only had her 2 months. But I am the one home with the dogs all day while everyone else is at work/school so they tend to be by my side when I'm around.

I do believe animals are sentient beings and the photos in this thread certainly back up that idea.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:39 PM

5. Crying................

 

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)


Response to amb123 (Reply #6)

Sun May 20, 2012, 03:57 PM

15. What's global warming got to do with this? nt

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:42 PM

7. No words

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:53 PM

9. Damn, Now I'm depressed! I LOVE Polar Bears and they have a special place in my heart.

I actually painted a mother and baby snuggling up together and gave it to my Granddaughter. Hopefully stimulating her to love of these great/beautiful bears.
I hope her generation gets to see them. I also sent her a series of books on polar bears. She loved them.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 01:20 PM

12. Your user name

says it all.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 01:30 PM

13. But they're "only animals" right, everyone?

Just something to think about. That is truly a heartbreaking picture.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 01:35 PM

14. :-(

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 06:17 PM

16. It wasn't grief, it was getting hungry.

 



I guess they ain't people after all.

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Response to zoechen (Reply #16)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:22 PM

18. But don't you love the smell of anthropomorphism in the morning? It smells like ...

fuck ... I don't know ... something?

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Response to zoechen (Reply #16)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:54 PM

20. How do you know it wasn't grief?

You're applying human standards to animals...it can't be grief because the animal did something unacceptable to humans?

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Response to Merlot (Reply #20)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:12 PM

21. I'm Sorry for you

 

You've got it bass ackwards.

I am not applying human standards to anything, what I am doing is pointing out the folly of applying human standards to animals.

Oh, btw, that ain't a human carcess in case you didn't notice.

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Response to zoechen (Reply #21)

Sun May 20, 2012, 09:31 PM

25. Oh, but humans would never ever kill each other, would we?

Most (not all) humans (in most societies currently existing, not universal historically) have a taboo against cannibalism (but we'll do it if we have to).

But it's OK for us to kill each other as long as we make sure that the meat goes to waste. And since we kill each other all the time, obviously we don't REALLY grieve for the deaths of our specific loved ones.

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Response to Withywindle (Reply #25)

Sun May 20, 2012, 09:47 PM

26. I've read this about 6 times..

 

Withywindle

25. Oh, but humans would never ever kill each other, would we?




Most (not all) humans (in most societies currently existing, not universal historically) have a taboo against cannibalism (but we'll do it if we have to).

But it's OK for us to kill each other as long as we make sure that the meat goes to waste. And since we kill each other all the time, obviously we don't REALLY grieve for the deaths of our specific loved ones.

End quote...

I'm having trouble understanding this post.

I've even turned the tv off so that I could concentrate...

It didn't help. could I get a little help here?

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Response to zoechen (Reply #26)

Mon May 21, 2012, 02:22 PM

34. In a nutshell.

A picture of a polar bear killing and eating another polar bear tells us exactly zilch about what emotions they do or don't feel towards each other.

There are countless gruesome photos available of horrible things humans do to each other. I don't think anyone would argue that that in itself proves that humans have no capacity to love or grieve, right?

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Response to zoechen (Reply #21)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:51 PM

27. Actually, it's you that has it backasswards

I understood your post about the "folly of applying human standards to animals" but you have done exactly that by assuming it can't be grief if the polar bear would then eat the carcass of it's young.

Because a person who is grieving wouldn't eat the carcass, therefore an animal can't feel grief because it then eats the young?

Possibly the animal can feel grief, and then proceed to do what nature intends.

Oh, no, two conflicting thoughts at the same time...

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Response to zoechen (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2012, 03:01 AM

30. From a guy that yawns and rolls his eyes when he views all things "ogrish"

 

your post is just downright disgusting and radically off-topic. Either that, or your remarks come from a tragically misinformed viewpoint.

It's not the picture that's the problem (well, it will be a problem to many DU readers here, for good reason); it's the spirit in which it was posted.

Please self-delete that.

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Response to zoechen (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2012, 09:08 AM

32. Do you have a link? Is it the same polar bear?

Yes, polar bears will eat their dead. Male polar bears are likely to hunt down cubs if they are hungry enough.

And animal mothers are known to eat their dead offspring. That offspring represents a lot of energy and resources that would go to waste if the mother let it simply rot away.

It does not make the grief nonexistence. Did you ever wonder what instincts feel like? I think instincts feel like emotions feel. So I do not believe animals do NOT feel emotions. They just don't remember them as long as humans do.

I once saw a nature show were a mother lion hunted and called for her dead cub for weeks. She eventually died because she would spend all day looking for her long dead cub and did nothing else. It was instinct that drove her to search for her cub. But how do you know that her instinct did NOT feel like emotions feel to humans?

I think humans, especially those who have not been around animals much, overrate their own emotions as if they are somehow special and unique to humans only. Animals do feel emotions, what's so special about that?

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 12:38 AM

28. AWFUL.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 01:48 AM

29. Zoechen, you do not come across as a very nice person...but hey, thats just me.

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