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[msanthrope]

This message was self-deleted by its author (msanthrope) on Thu Aug 6, 2015, 07:30 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[MineralMan]

1. Thanks. I hope it works out OK.

[msanthrope]

25. I'm hoping to have good news tomorrow night. I wish it could be

more news, sooner, but we do what we can.....

[Tipperary]

2. This is very good to hear. I hope you can post pics or at least updates to keep us posted on

Yoshi.

You and yours are angels.

[tblue37]

3. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! I can't say thank you enough!

I hope DUers will still donate to her page, since she will still ned enough money to pay deposits for an apartment, utilities, pet deposit, etc., as well as for gas, food, etc.

But knowing that Yoshi will be rescued is going to mean the world to her.

It already means the world to me. I couldn't sleep last night, and I have been nauseous all day thinking about this whole situation and about poor Yoshi's suffering.

Thank you again, msanthrope!

[glinda]

43. +1

[emsimon33]

4. Thank you so much.

I have felt helpless living on the opposite side of the country. We have a huge space here and have done animal refuse in the past (one goat left down in the pasture from those days) and would have loved to give Yoshi a temporary home, but logistics made that impossible.

Thank you for making the impossible possible. I have been so worried about Yoshi and TTW.

Bless you and your kind heart.

[TDale313]

5. Thank you so much for helping with this.

I truly hope things work out for her and Yoshi.

[narnian60]

40. +1000

[PeaceNikki]

6. You and your ex are good eggs, msanthrope

[pnwmom]

12. +1000. n/t

[niyad]

7. thank you for all your efforts.

[Vincardog]

8. Please post a link where we can contribute.

[Bryce Butler]

30. Here is Torch's gofundme:

http://www.gofundme.com/slumlord-escape

[Vincardog]

33. Thanks I did what I could

[mnhtnbb]

9. That is so good to hear.

Please post some pics of Yoshi when he arrives at his foster home.

I also hope TTW can get what she needs together to find a new home for herself
and Yoshi where they can both be together--safely--in the future.

You and your ex are angels, msanthrope!

[MelissaB]

10. Thank you so much for helping TTW and her dog.

This is great news.

[bananas]

11. "Look at my username. I don't ask that too often."

We'll make you a mranthrope eventually!
Wait a minute, is "mr" really the opposite of "ms" ???
Have to think about this...

j/k, thanks for the update, I am very relieved.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. Misanthropy: she's doing it wrong.

[tblue37]

62. Very good. nt

[LiberalElite]

13. Thank you.

[mylye2222]

14. Good News!!!

You Rocks!!!!

[greatlaurel]

15. Thank you so much for helping TTW and Yoshi

I have been following TTW'S struggles and have been very worried. We live too far away to help and have no resources, except compassion. Anyone can fall into bad circomstances at any time. Please let TTW know she has friends here. I am so worried about her and Yoshi. Good luck, TTW.

Thank you to your ex for rescuing Yoshi. Please keep us posted. Thanks, again. Well done.

[bananas]

16. Links to some previous threads

"Update on TorchTheWitch"
Moosepoop Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:20 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7034968

"Yoshi the dog is in danger. If you can donate a little to help rescue him,"
tblue37 Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:54 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7035847

[Locrian]

35. thats for that

I have a special hatred for slum lords . Donated, hope it helps.

[Liberal_in_LA]

17. k&r

[closeupready]

18. So glad to hear this, msanthrope. Many thanks to you.

And well wishes to TTW, who is a very good soul.

[herding cats]

19. This is great news!

I read about TTW and Yoshi's latest plight earlier and it broke my heart. I'm so glad your ex is in a position to help out. Thank you for bringing it to their attention, and thank them for me for stepping up to help.

You're both great people!

[stage left]

20. You really need to change your username.

You're an angel. I just threw in a few dollars to TTW's paypal account. I believe in erring on the side of compassion. It feels better. So glad that Yoshi will be safe. I had a dog once that meant as much to me as Yoshi does to TTW.

[tblue37]

21. +1. nt

[trueblue2007]

22. i donated to her GOFUNDME account last night.

[trueblue2007]

23. God bless Torch and her doggie !!!

[PearliePoo2]

24. Terrific...just wonderful news!

They (TTW and your ex) need to get there quickly to rescue Yoshi and nurse him back to health.
It doesn't sound good at ALL. Especially the part where he didn't even seem to know her and his fur is falling out.. something's really, really wrong.
He may need a vet check. Let us know if we can contribute to any care that he needs!

You guys are awesome.

[steve2470]

26. very awesome of you and your ex to help like this

Many good vibes for Yoshi and TTW

[msanthrope]

27. I'm hoping for a good update tomorrow night, Monday night. nt

[steve2470]

28. yes let's hope so! nt

[onecaliberal]

29. So glad to hear this..

On Edit: it might be a good idea to take Yoshi to the vet, I would be willing to pitch in for the cost.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Thank you, msanthrop

and fuck you to all the unsympathetic people in that other thread who claimed this was a scam. Assbites.

[msanthrope]

60. It is not a scam. It is unfortunate that some DUers mistook TTW's agenda, and could not

extend themselves toward her.....

Frankly, if I wrote what I actually thought of them, I'd be locked out of this thread.

[tblue37]

65. + a brazillion! They don't have to help, but there is no reason to try to prevent others

from helping or to trash TTW's character.

Cops who murder unarmed black men are supported by donations to the tune of a million dollars, as are bigots who won't serve people if they are gay.

We should be willing to help one of our own--or at least not to dump on her when she is struggling to survive.

[daredtowork]

69. haha, never took you for one of the softies on DU.^^ nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

85. You're a mensch.

And I'd be thrown out alongside you if I said what I truly think of those people.

[pnwmom]

295. No, I think she's really a femsch.

[tblue37]

63. +1!! nt

[Person 2713]

32. Thank you and your ex for being there .

[Hekate]

34. You and your ex are good souls, msanthrope. All along I've been thinking ...

...that a face to face encounter with TTW and another DUer is urgently needed -- for every reason there is.

Blessings to you, your ex, Yoshi and TTW. May all be well in the end.

[Lucinda]

37. I'm so happy you guys were able to help!

[a la izquierda]

38. You guys are good eggs.

I wish I could help, besides just sending good thoughts. But I don't get paid in the summer.

[trueblue2007]

39. i donated to her GOFUNDME account last night.

Here is Torch's gofundme:

http://www.gofundme.com/slumlord-escape

[ColesCountyDem]

41. Wonderful news, msanthrope!

Thank you so much for helping TTW and Yoshi!

[narnian60]

42. Gladly gave.

[truth2power]

44. Thank you so much, msanthrope! You and your ex are good people...

Providing for Yoshi is the best thing anyone could have done as an immediate first step.

This will give TTW some 'breathing room' so she can concentrate on improving her situation. I don't know how anyone could be expected to think straight when their beloved pet is wasting away.

You two done good!

[glinda]

45. If I may suggest something...

the dog is sick. That is a given. Hoping he will still be alive actually.
But this place may want money up front for his release if they are as horrible as they sound. So here is what you may need to do....
be in physical control of him/next to him or actually holding leash....then tell them you are there to take him as he is sick.....try to set up Torche's payment plan but in reality if they give you any trouble you can tell them they could be reported.
Just suggesting due to possible issue that they may throw at you.
Unless you front the money and we help raise it for you to pay you back or something.

[tblue37]

46. Yes, I bet DU will gladly help raise money to pay for springing Yoshi! nt

[glinda]

48. Spring first and pay back if necessary. Dog needs out. Sick.

[tblue37]

50. They are going to pick him up Monday night. nt

[msanthrope]

58. Good ideas--Ex is a civil attorney, used to suing people into the ground. I suspect that they will

release the dog to him and Torch....he can be quite persuasive.

[magical thyme]

47. thank you msanthrope, and thank you also to your ex

please keep up updated. Sending healing light to Yoshi, that he hang on for another day...

[Texasgal]

49. Thank you!

I've been trying to help for many months now.

I am so glad that Yoshi is going to find a healthy place to go too. Thank you for being a good person and Thank you for renewing my faith in DU.

:hugs:

[Lil Missy]

51. Oh bless your heart. Thank you for being so helpful. n/t

[femmedem]

52. If Yoshi needs subcutaneous fluids

or other veterinary care and you haven't raised enough to cover it, please pm me and I'll kick in.

[virgdem]

54. I second that...

I will kick in what I can for Vet services. Also contributing to the gofundme account.

[msanthrope]

59. I will update everyone tomorrow night.....hopefully, Yoshi won't need intervention,

but the RYan Clinic is very close to ex's house.

[Moosepoop]

53. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

i just got home from work and went to the thread I posted, and then followed a link there to this one!

THANK YOU AND YOUR EX, SO MUCH!!!!!

Oh. My. Stars.

I put in a call to TTW, got no answer but left a message for her to call me. I'm just beside myself at all this -- the upcoming rescue and fostering of Yoshi, and the all the contributions from everyone whether in the form of donations, offers of advice, offers of fostering, or words of support and encouragement for TTW.
Thank you to absolutely everyone for your support!!!

This is DU at its best. And you, msanthrope, ARE DU's best.

Sorry for all the smilies, but I can't even express what I'm feeling right now!!!

Okay, I'll stop.

Maybe...

[catrose]

56. Thank YOU for posting that one last time

I can understand why she wouldn't. And for being her friend in the hard times. We all need such a friend.

And many thanks to msanthrope & associate. You all have chosen the better part and brought us some news during a week of helpless rage and despair.

[janlyn]

66. Such good news,

I was all ready to have my boyfriends niece foster yoshi ! Glad that yoshi has a safe place!!!

[Moosepoop]

67. isn't it, though??

But thanks for that offer, janlyn!! It is VERY much appreciated!!

[shireen]

72. thank you for keeping TTW visible

I donated the first time around, in April, and pitched in again yesterday.

I'm troubled about something you said about her living situation, but you didn't go into details (probably for good reasons). Does she have family or close friends in Philadelphia? It's great that she has a support network at DU, but she also needs support on the ground. My thoughts are with her and Yoshi. Again, thank you ... you are a true friend to her.

[daredtowork]

257. She did reach out to her family

They definitely aren't close, and if they did anything for her, it wasn't enough to save her from being evicted.

She brought a maintenance complaint against her landlord which caused her to have to put a certain amount of rent in escrow, whereas she thought she wouldn't have to pay rent until all the problems were fixed: this is part of what caused this to happen. She managed to collect enough for the escrow, but, because she was unemployed, she then had to come back here asking for help with rent while she was looking for a job. She couldn't collect enough money because there were naysaying toads sitting on the thread who kept poking holes in her story instead of listening to all the factors involved. It was more difficult for her to move quickly because of her dog. The "dog rescue" places people suggested weren't going to let her have the dog back.

Anyway the job she got didn't earn enough money for her rent. She was evicted. She tried to raise emergency money here to avoid the eviction, but no luck: people said she would just keep coming back here for her rent money. So she was evicted. She managed to find a friend that let her couch surf and this "doggie daycare" that took the dog. It's unclear to me whether she managed to hold on to her job or not while she was being *evicted* and in fear of losing her dog, etc.

At that point another DUer who was in contact with TTW wrote up the situation about how she had had to leave Yoshi in the "doggie daycare" situation, and Yoshi wasn't doing well in it Msanthrope kindly stepped in to lift that one burden from TTW.

Hope that catches you up. If you know of a cheap apartment in the Philadelphia area that takes dogs, I believe TTW is looking.

[840high]

55. Thank you.

[chervilant]

57. So relieved to hear this!

I have no resources to help, and have been worried about TTW AND Yoshi! Thank you for helping!

[TexasTowelie]

61. Good vibes for TTW and Yoshi.

Your ex and you are both special people for coming to Yoshi's assistance and giving TTW some relief about thinking about her dog.

[Sissyk]

64. MMMMhmmmm!

You try to be a hard ass, but I already figured it out!

Thank you, msanthrope! I tried, but so far away and I don't think I had the right words to say to TTW.

I know you are not a believer, but Bless You!

[daredtowork]

68. Thank you

for recognizing that TTW wasn't "avoiding" help but trying to figure out to keep her dog.

[SoapBox]

70. Wow...

Thank you for this update and will anxiously wait for more info.

Did I miss what kind of dog Yoshi is?

[tblue37]

71. A gorgeous Akita--Here he is in all his glory:

[Aerows]

75. They are fastidious as cats

but dog loyal. Wonderful breed.

[SoapBox]

80. Thank you for the pic....

Wow...handsome!

[tblue37]

81. Yes, he is beautiful. I can't wait for tonight, to hear he has been rescued! nt

[shireen]

73. adding my thanks ...

to you and your ex, and looking forward to an update on Monday.

[Aerows]

74. I am so glad to hear this!

msanthrope, you have a kind soul to do this, as does your ex.

Thank you for going out of your way to help!

[akbacchus_BC]

76. I was wondering how TTW and Yoshi were doing. I contributed to her through

gofundme. I am glad for this update. Hope everything works out well for TTW and her beautiful companion Yoshi.

[grasswire]

77. If I may add something...

....there is among us a member who is waiting for disability and who is suffering, too.

Thank you all for showing heart.

[msanthrope]

78. Please give me a link and I will put it in the OP. nt

[grasswire]

83. ok

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027011754

[msanthrope]

84. Done.....nt

[amuse bouche]

79. Great news

[Sunlei]

82. That's very kind of you, I hope the dog is good and easy for you to handle.

[Shrike47]

86. So how did it work out? Did Yoshi get picked up?

[truth2power]

87. The plan is for Yoshi to be picked up this evening (Monday)...

I have my fingers crossed that he'll still be OK by then.

[onecaliberal]

88. Any news?!?

I'm hoping Yoshi is okay....

[SheilaT]

89. Update?

Or will this fade out like every other thread on this topic?

[Texasgal]

91. The OP says LATE evening tonight!

I'm sure we'll get an update. I know you are so excited to hear!

[msanthrope]

94. Seriously, you want to start with me? Your update is above. nt

[herding cats]

98. Yay!

Thank you so much! You cannot know how very happy I am for you to have helped TTW and Yoshi in their time of need. I have very limited monies and couldn't do enough to effect any sort of real change here.

Let this be a lesson to those who live to be spiteful. There are good people out there who will make you eat your words by doing actual good works.

Thank you again!

[JTFrog]

100. Oh for fuck's sake.

You have been obnoxiously trolling this topic. You've made some really shitty insinuations and accusations.

Sadly TTW's situation has been verified, but fortunately she has accepted the help you so rudely insinuated she would not accept.

Why are you being so hateful?

I wait with bated breath to see you have a little compassion and get that chip of your shoulder, for whatever reason it's there.

[SheilaT]

119. Gosh, I merely asked for an update

and I get all sorts of mean comments back.

[JTFrog]

123. Gosh, golly, gee.

Bless your heart.

Can't imagine why folks don't want to entertain you.

This is complete and utter crap. Torch the Witch is at the very least diffusional. Possibly a scammer. Certainly she has NEVER taken advantage of any of the very many sensible offers or advice made to her here. She has claimed various contradictory things over the several months this has been going on.

I find her threads to be mainly entertainment, and I honestly feel sorry for anyone who believes her nonsense.

Disgusting.

[trueblue2007]

140. thanks for documenting what that mean woman said about Torch and her dog. Some people are heartless

[cwydro]

141. I don't alert on posts, but really, you should refrain from personal attacks

on other DUers.

[msanthrope]

125. Like I wrote....you really want to start with me? My suggestion is that from now on, you read, but

refrain from commenting on any thread regarding TTW.

Edited to add--you find a homeless dog entertaining? Jeebus, there's a reason my username is what it is.....

[Sheldon Cooper]

107. I would love to know what TTW ever did to you to earn so much hate.

Did she kick your dog? Copy your homework? Steal your man? What is it?

[Aerows]

90. Half dead from training for

a marathon in godawful heat, but I had to take the time to thank you for being such a great person as to rise to the occasion.

I'm going to go resurrect myself in the shower now, and then eat everything on the planet.

[mnhtnbb]

92. Looking forward to hearing some good news about Yoshi being safe

and photos! soon.

I imagine it will be a tremendous relief for TTW.

[Ineeda]

93. Very kind of you and your ex.

I hope this sets TTW on the right track after YEARS of desperate calls for help.

[msanthrope]

95. UPDATED OP ABOVE> nt

[ladyVet]

111. I'm not a believer, either...

But you and your ex just got very big, shiny gold stars on your karmas! As have everyone who has helped and will help, or who just thought good thoughts and prayed.

This sort of thing is why I still come here.

And Yoshi is a handsome devil!

[bettyellen]

96. You and your Ex are just awesome.

[Sissyk]

97. What a wonderful update!!

Thank you so much for your compassion, caring, and understanding. Along with your ex.

You are a good person.

[herding cats]

99. Proof there is goodness in this world!

This makes my heart so very happy tonight.

I can spare some more toward Yoshi's care. Let me know where to send it to.

[ucrdem]

101. You will have to work harder at living up to your username.

. . . other than that it's great to tune in to DU and read this!

[DashOneBravo]

102. Good for you sir

[SidDithers]

103. ...

You've done a very nice thing.

Sid

[truth2power]

104. I am so relieved!..

I was concerned that Yoshi wouldn't make it.

I read on one of these threads that gofundme takes a chunk of whatever people donate but that Paypal doesn't, if it's to a private party.

Could you please clarify when you have time? Thank you for all you and your ex are doing.

[tammywammy]

106. Good to hear. Thanks for the update.

One thing that may help, is if you got a shirt that Torch has worn. It'll have her scent on it. Is she closer to your ex than where Yoshi was held? Hopefully she can visit more easily than she did at the other place.

[catrose]

120. This

Always a good idea to send a loved & Familiar scent with a pet.

I'm so happy for Yoshi and for TTW, leaping out of her comfort zone to save him. And so glad there are people like misanthrope, her ex, & moosepoop. And DUers who gave one more time.

[ladyVet]

108. Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you!

I am crying tears of joy that Yoshi is in a good place and can recover.

People can usually do something to help themselves, or at least accept that they must endure a bad situation until things get better, but animals don't understand why they aren't with their people, or being fed and cared for.

So, thank you so much for stepping in and helping out. If I can spare some money later on, I'll help as much as I can, but we're just hanging on here ourselves right now.

[virgdem]

109. Thanks for the update...

TTW and Yoshi were on my mind all day. Great news about Yoshi. Now TTW can start to get her life back on track without worrying about the dog's situation. You are a very good person and a good friend. Please continue to update us on her situation and any further assistance she may need.

[7wo7rees]

110. Thank you all for stepping up. I hope TTW is able to

rest well tonite knowing he is OK. You all and DU are amazing as always.

My heart and my wife's heart are glad tonite.

DU'ers rock!

[magical thyme]

112. thank you for the update

I've been checking in all evening waiting for word, worried about Yoshi.

Dirty socks worn by TTW may give some comfort. Our essence sinks to our feet. (I recently laundered my dogs' comforter and found several missing socks and undies, lol!)

[Texasgal]

113. THANK YOU!

Hopefully DU will get together on some fundraising and dog walking for Yoshi! Thank you for your kindness!

[Moosepoop]

114. Hallelujah!!! :-D

I've been trying to compose a reply for a while now.
There is so much that I want to say, but I just don't have the words.

Except, once again... thank you.

[DawgHouse]

115. What a wonderful outcome for Yoshi.

Thank you and your ex for going beyond the call of duty to help a fellow human and beloved pet in need.

[onecaliberal]

116. Thank goodness!

I am so glad Yoshi is okay. I'm so relieved. You guys have earned some major karma points. I've been worrying and waiting to hear. I am overjoyed that Yosh is safe, and TTW can centrate on getting out of her situation without worrying that something will happen to Yoshi.
Let us know what your ex needs as far as contributions. I'm willing to help.

[daredtowork]

117. Looks like rumors of "vicious dog" being the problem

can also be put to rest once and for all! That dog looks like a heartbreaker!

[JI7]

118. very kind ex couple

[Hekate]

121. I am SO glad to hear this

[pintobean]

122. Great.

Very heartwarming.

[ohheckyeah]

124. Thank you.

I wish I could help.

[mnhtnbb]

126. Great news!

Hopefully, Yoshi's GI system will settle down once he gets back to eating normally. If TTW had a regular
brand of kibble/canned food that agreed with him, it should help his system to get back on it.

I have a rescue dog that had GI problems from time to time. I now feed her Natural Balance Synergy--which
is NOT cheap--and she rarely has loose poops any more. But, it may be that Yoshi just needs to get
acclimated to his new house/routine and his gut will settle down.

[CountAllVotes]

127. You might try Rescue Remedy for pets

It has been a life saver around here with my 3 cats. It takes about an hour to work and lasts for several hours and definitely calms the cat/dog down a lot!

Glad to read the good news about Yoshi and TTW!

[catrose]

134. I also use Rescue Remedy for cats

I've seen screaming, scratching little monsters roll over into major chill mode in short order, from "Rip your guts out! Now! Now! Now!" to "Doooooood, got any more of that crazy shit?"

I don't know if there's a dog equivalent, but Feliway diffusers are also good for calming. The poor guy has had a lot changes lately. Of course he's stressed. I'm so glad everyone involved is knowledgeable about dogs.

[Tree-Hugger]

153. There is a dog equivalent

It is called D.A.P. - "dog appeasing pheromones." It comes as a spray, a diffuser, and a collar.

It's usually called D.A.P. if you get it at the vet. "Comfort Zone" is the common brand you find in pet stores.

[catrose]

161. Good to know. Thanks. Eom

[cwydro]

128. I do hope that the place that mistreated the dog

has been reported?

[Omaha Steve]

129. Marta and I just kicked in again

Hope it helps with day to day stuff.

OS

[seveneyes]

130. Has the animal shelter that was abusing her dog been reported to the authorities?

That should have been done as soon as the dog was safely removed from the torture shelter.

[dofus]

131. Been following this at a distance,

and it's heartwarming to know Yoshi has been rescued.

Please, please post photos.

And please, please report the place (wasn't it a doggie day-care?)where he was staying. They should not be allowed to get away with such horrible treatment of a defenseless animal.

[cwydro]

133. I've asked that also, but I haven't seen any sign that it was reported.

I certainly hope so because I would assume other animals are being neglected as well.

[snooper2]

132. just give the dog some fucking bacon and it'll be fine LOL

it's a dog

[tblue37]

135. THANK YOU! I have been so worried that things might fall through or that it might

be too late. Was TTW able to go with you and spend some time with Yoshi, too?

From what TTW has said in the past, Yoshi sounds like a one person dog, but maybe he will recognize you, your ex, and his dogwalker as his rescuers and feel affection for that.

Please do keep us informed about how we can donate to help with his care and upkeep. I have to be careful in the summer, since I have virtually no summer income and am paying down bills from two April surgeries, but I did donate to TTW's GFM page, and then tried to help more by spreading the word about Yoshi's danger. I will donate as much as I can to his care until I start getting paid again in mid-September, and then increase my donation amount and frequency once the paychecks start coming in again.

I noticed that the GFM site has an option for scheduling regular monthly gifts. I will do that for TTW and also for Yoshi starting in mid-September.

Again, I can't tell you enough how much I admire you and your ex for doing this. I am, I fear, a bit misanthropic myself because of all the harm our species does, but people like you keep me from thinking our entire species deserves extinction.

I am also truly glad that you have stepped up to vouch for TTW against those who accuse her of fraud and then go around to these threads trying to talk more generous people out of donating to help her survive. You, Omaha Steve, and Moosepoop have all repeatedly stood up for her, and I just want to say thanks for that. I don't know TTW at all, but she is one of ours. The naysayers don't have to help, but they really should not be so eager to prevent the rest of us from doing what we can.

[PearliePoo2]

136. Was TTW able to go with your ex to get Yoshi?

Has she been able to see him yet?
Can you describe the conditions of the facility where he was at and how much did it cost to bail him out?
I do worry about the fate and welfare of the other animals there.
Sorry about all the questions...
Saying 'thank you' isn't adequate for what you guys have done. Beyond words.

[Tipperary]

137. Please let us know that the horrid

"doggie care" place has been reported. They should not be in business if the treat animals so poorly. I am very glad Yoshi has been taken care of, but I am very worried for the other animals there.

[SheilaT]

138. Please do post pictures and give us an update

on Yoshi. And his owner, who has been through a lot.

Not hearing any update has me terribly concerned.

[JTFrog]

143. Concern trolling at it's finest. n/t

[SheilaT]

144. Hmmm.

Concern trolling.

Does no one else here wonder that we haven't seen a single photo? Nor that TTW herself hasn't checked in? Or that it's msanthrope's ex who supposedly has Yoshi? And that a dog walker has been hired, no doubt needing even more donations?

[JTFrog]

145. Why don't you just stop.

Again, nobody is going to give in to your demands to further your "entertainment".

Quit pretending to give a shit.

[SheilaT]

146. I will repeat:

Doesn't anyone here care that we've seen no photos, not heard from TTW herself, Yoshi is supposedly with a poster's ex, still no photos, and there's a dog walker???

The only thing I give a shit about is people falling for this nonsense, not asking for actual proof that anything has happened.

[daredtowork]

147. ???!!

Try to imagine yourself in the situation and try looking for some proof that doesn't involve HUMILIATION.

I wouldn't want to post my picture on the Internet.

It's pretty clear to me that msanthrope is a different person that TTW: she drove me nuts over her support for Snowden. I was really surprised she did this. Several KNOWN people from DU have vouched they have talked to TTW on the phone or otherwise met her and decided she wasn't a scammer, just someone who was desperate and trying to get out of her situation.

There are pictures of Yoshi in the thread. Msanthrope's ex chooses not to display himself on the Internet. He is a lawyer with resources.

When you say "people falling for this nonsense", it shows you are STILL making a judgment that this IS nonsense, when it seems to me that msanthrope's personal involvement finally clarified that it wasn't. So what you are doing her now is questioning the validity of the msanthrope account and saying that this scam goes back for years, and that TTW has masterminded so many sockpuppets and personalities on TTW that she even has one that, despite all her legal troubles, has one with some sort of legal training, that regularly pissed me off about Snowden?

You are really going the extra mile.

[SheilaT]

150. Humilation? To post a simple pic of Yoshi?

For TTW herself to post here? I have never suggested TTW and msanthrope are the same person. I sincerely doubt they are. But ask yourself, why has TTW herself not posted in this thread? How do we really know Yoshi's situation and rescue?

What happened to a little critical thinking?

Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.

[JTFrog]

152. "What happened to a little critical thinking?"

Excellent question. The fact that you have to go out of your way to deny the information provided by several long term members of this community and make wild insinuations and accusations about another long term member in order to trump up reasons for your "concern", should make you ponder that question deeply.

[daredtowork]

166. Pictures of Yoshi have been posted.

It's your own fault if you haven't clicked around and have missed them.

TTW lost use of her computer after she lost her apartment, and when she does access the computer at the library and other places she has a ton of other stuff to do and other people to answer to besides YOU.

It is YOU who lack the critical thinking skills. If msanthrope and TTW are different people, what is msanthrope's motives to lie about taking Yoshi and creating some whole farce of assisting with TTW's problems?

It is YOU who have created this whole fantasy of "scammers" everywhere.

Again, if it's just a picture of YOSHI you are looking for, then CLICK AROUND THE THREAD!!!!

He's a beautiful dog.

[cwydro]

176. That's an old pic. nt

[daredtowork]

148. A random msanthrope Greenwald-hate post for your perusal

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024994063

Just one click on msanthrope's journal and there was a Greenwald hate-post. Now that is sooooooo like radical TTW. These split personalities are da Vinci level genius!

Or perhaps you are implying this is a whole grifter ring that has been at work, and msanthrope is part of that?

YOU are the person who won't accept non-humiliating forms verification.

What is sad is I think you mentioned you are on SSDI, and it took you some time to establish the documentation to get it. Perhaps some people are not as organized or well-aligned as you.

The problem with needing rent is people DO have to keep coming back. According to the witnesses involved. TTW DID find a job. She did that despite losing her housing and having to find a new place. She had to worry about homelessness and worry about losing her dog. She kept coming back here while she didn't have enough money: because so many people undermined her that she didn't raise enough money the first time. She may come back some more. She is a person in need. But at this point there are half a dozen people vouching for her, some who have talked to her on the phone, and some who have met with her in person. Stop picking on her.

[SheilaT]

156. You clearly have me confused with someone else.

I'm not on SSDI. I know NOTHING about a Greenwald hate post. Certainly wasn't from me. Not sure what you are getting at, but you may have me confused with someone else.

So glad TTW found a job and a place to live. But why can't we see photos of the unfortunate Yoshi?

[daredtowork]

167. They have been posted. I've seen them.

Someone didn't post them in the OP for your convenience. Geez. There is a lot going on.


And the Greenwald post is to show msanthrope's Snowden-hate, confirming for myself at least that this isn't a fake msanthrope account: this is indeed the real msantrhrope, and there is no "Wizard of Oz" going on here. Just your wild imagination about a ring of grifters on DU.

[SheilaT]

179. I can't even begin to figure out what you are commenting on.

What has been posted? Recent photos of Yoshi? Why haven't I noticed them on this thread?

I cannot begin to figure out what a Snowden/Greenwald post has to do with this thread, especially as I have had nothing to do with any such thing.

[daredtowork]

180. Snowden/Greenwald was my check on whether msanthrope was a sock of TTW

Just in case I had gotten the spelling wrong or something. But no, it's the same msanthrope. That's a respected DUer (one I've personally disliked, for the record) that you have been pissing all over with your demands for pictures.

Is msanthrope also diffusional? Is she also a scammer? Are you also now watching her just for the entertainment since she refuses to provide the "verification" of TTW you demand?

You might want to look at her post count, too, while you're at it.

[SheilaT]

182. ??? Snowden/Greenwald have nothing at all to do with this.

Post count, which I never pay attention to, also has nothing to do with this.

I'm simply trying to get people here to do a bit of rational thinking about this entire thread.

[daredtowork]

185. Because to them VERIFICATION is TRUST in other DUers

Certain other DUers have earned some trust over time. Not just through post count (which represents longevity), but through consistency of character and other actions. There are some people around here who count as "respected".

Omaha Steve is one. Msanthrope would have counted as trusted before this. Now after the "Yoshi rescue" she will win a ton of "angel" points, too.

They are seen as responsible people. That's all the "verification" everyone else needs. If they say something happened, it happened. If several people say it happened, it DEFINITELY, happened.

You're the one who looks like you're on crack for continual demands for additional proof from people who are already trusted.

Before tonight you were on my trusted list. Now I question your judgment. Not because we're having a disagreement, but because you are really putting yourself in a twister to represent TTW as a scammer. It's unfortunate that you probably helped tank her fund-raisers before since it seems there was no scam. But you should definitely back off now that other respected DU folk are involved.

[underahedgerow]

187. Yanno, there's some 8000 views on this thread, and hundreds of comments between this and TTW's

horrific ongoing saga.

Yet... And yet, there's but one 'voice of reason' ever present, refusing to believe that people can actually go through such a terrible chapter in one's life. Or just playing up to the crowds and seeking negative attention.

There are many people who know her personally who just aren't bothered by the doubters (thankfully) and won't waste their time responding to negative attention seeking behavior.

So few people in doubt, yet so many offering support and good wishes. I'm glad to see good people rallying around someone in need. Sometimes, we just need a helping hand, no questions asked, no rules, to conditions. Unconditional support in time of need.

It can take many years to recover from a set of circumstances that spirals hopelessly out of control. What the world doesn't need is someone sapping the strength out of those less fortunate.

Sometimes we humans make mistakes and make the wrong choices, even though at that moment it seems like the right one. Sometimes there is only one choice and we have no alternative but to go through that only open door. Shit happens, we aren't perfect and we are all entitled to make errors, no one gets it right every single time.

The only outcome, if we must dwell on the past, is to ask 'what have I learned from this?'. I ask that often, in good times and bad, and it's a habit that's served me well.

No one, not even the best and craftiest liars and story tellers could possibly spin a story as detailed and consistent as this, and for what? A paltry couple thousand bucks? Pffft, the money kindly donated to TTW is a pittance (no offense!!!!!!). If someone is going to scam, then hell, scam big and go for the millions. No one intelligent is going to waste their time on one little chat board with other people not far from her own predicament trying to scam 5 bucks from someone else through such a massive and complex effort.

[SheilaT]

192. Actually, there have been lots of

problems with TTW's story. Shall I post all of the earlier threads? But that's not the issue. The issue is a simple request to see how her dog Yoshi is doing. And a simple wondering why TTW herself has not posted here. There are libraries.

In this particular thread, we are being asked to take on on faith that she's okay, her dog is okay, and despite promises to post photos, none have shown up. Am I so terrible for asking why?

TTW could go to a library and post here. Those who tell us they have Yoshi could take a photo and post it. Why have neither of those things occurred?

[underahedgerow]

196. No, there's no problem at all with the saga. You don't actually care how Yoshi is doing.

Dude, I can't post a photo to DU, can't for the life of me post anything beyond dialogue and links. I managed a video once, somehow, it was a fucking miracle.

How about this. When TTW surfaces and confirms everything, when there is a pic of Yoshi in his new foster home, will you create a topic apologizing to her and all the other kind people who have genuinely cared so much? And then donate 100 bucks to her gofundme?

And if I'm proven to be wrong, I'll donate 100 bucks to the charity of your choice.

[daredtowork]

239. Because as you have been informed MANY TIMES

If TTW even has access to a library, she only has limited time on that computer. Reporting to DU is low priority usage for her. Other people are reporting to DU *for* her at this point. TRUSTED people on DU. There is no need.

Moreover it is in the middle of the WORK WEEK. Don't you want TTW to be at her job instead of at the library on the computer?

Or do you want her at the library, on the computer, so you can poke holes and ask why she isn't working?

I wonder if Msanthrope's lawyer Ex told TTW to stay away from DU because of people like you and to let other people who weren't as vulnerable to abuse handle it.

[LanternWaste]

238. Oddly enough, you rationalize your own initial reticence of the story

"Snowden/Greenwald was my check on whether msanthrope was a sock of TTW..."

Oddly enough, you rationalize your own initial reticence of the story followed up by your verification, yet indict others for the same.

[daredtowork]

241. You misunderstand the thread

Sorry, I'm sure it's very confusing.

The only reason I could see for SheilaT's initial accusation that she was waiting for "the man behind the curtain" to come out was that that everyone involved in this thread was a scam.

This made me think she was accusing the Msanthrope account of being a sockpuppet of TTW. I was pointing out it was venerable account, and an account I was very familiar with through previous interactions over the Snowden affair. SheilaT asked why I brought Snowden up, and that's my shorthand for "I did some research into Msanthrope's journal confirming she was the longterm DUer I thought she was."

However, ShielaT continued to push her elaborate scam theories even after I verified that account.

The remark was just shorthand to show her part of my process of verification so she could be free to try it herself instead of just sitting her in calling people scammers because she feels like it.

[daredtowork]

168. Try clicking View All next time - he's in Post number 71

Direct link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027036403#post71

[SheilaT]

169. That's not a recent photo. It's from

sometime back. I'm asking for photos of Yoshi in his current situation. Apparently, that's totally offensive to ask. We need to take it on faith that he's okay, that everything is great, and oh, by the way, please donate to the cause.

[daredtowork]

170. msanthrope has updated in writing

if that's an old photo, then she hasn't taken the trouble to snap some phone shot and upload that on DU. Perhaps it's not top of mind for her to do. Perhaps she feels when people howl for "updates", writing is all she is constrained to do.

For me just the fact that msanthrope is *obviously a different person* is enough. There is no reason to continuously pick at the scab after that. What motive could she possibly have to be lying to us and be covering up the grand scam you continue to think TTW is pulling off?

There is something very wrong with the way you are thinking. You do need to step back from the keyboard for a minute, take a breath, and realize that.

[SheilaT]

171. Update in writing.

And still no new photos. Still nothing from TTW herself.

Why in the world would she have a motive to be lying to us? And why in the world would she not be responding to simple requests to update and post photos?

I don't need to step back from the keyboard. You need to ask yourself some hard questions.

[daredtowork]

174. Why do you think it is msanthrope's job to update you?

There are no "hard questions" to ask.

As long as there is NO CHANCE that TTW and msanthrope are not the same person there is NO MOTIVE for msanthrope to lie in her posts and no need for pictures.

Why do you think there is a NEED for "hard questions"?

Why do you think people are required to meet your demands for proof?

It's obvious msanthrope is not TTW and has no reason to be covering up for some scam?

THINK ABOUT IT!

[SheilaT]

175. It has nothing to do with two posters here being the same person.

I honestly do not think that TTW and msanthrope are the same. But I am trying to point out that not only have no new photos been posted, but TTW has herself not posted here. We are being asked to accept on faith that Yoshi has been rescued -- and Yoshi's actual situation was never verified in the first place -- but nothing that is independently verifiable has been posted here. Nothing. Think about it.

[daredtowork]

178. TTW Lost her home

that's why TTW has not posted her.

Remember when TTW kept saying she was going to be evicted?

Please save me, I can't pay my rent?

I'm going to be evicted next week?

I'm going to be evicted tomorrow?

Well she was finally evicted. And apparently she couch-surfed. And at some point she lost her computer or it broke down.

Now with whatever computer access she has, she needs to use it for something other than posting on DU. Luckily some other people are trying to help update on her situation.

[SheilaT]

184. Oh, yes, I remember all of that.

She was a bit sketchy as to what was actually going on, although some here donated to her.

Keep in mind this is the same TTW who bragged she wiped her butt with 10 dollar bills.

And it's really easy to go to the local library and log on. Why hasn't TTW done that? Why are we being asked to accept on faith that Yoshi has been rescued ( no pictures, violation of privacy ) and now he needs a dog walker that we should all contribute to.

Oh, and TTW never said her computer broke down, although she did have to pack it up in her eviction. Library? What library?

[daredtowork]

189. Yeah in a snarky post from some years ago

And once again, TTW is now working, and if she DOES have the time to go to the library during the day (which I doubt), she probably has many other priorities with the one hour she will have on that computer. Such as:
1) Emailing friends, family, or her lawyer, or people who are really helping her.
2) Dealing with that GoFundMe account
3) Dealing with the aftermath of that lawsuit
4) Looking for a better job
5) Looking for a better apartment
6) Dealing with various social programs and researching resources

She may not even be near a library - who knows what resources she has access to. TTW may not have Internet access at her new apartment. I'm not going to bother to go back through all the posts to research what happened to her computer access. All I remember is she doesn't have it right now.

As for Yoshi - we aren't being asked to accept that "on faith" any more. Msanthrope gave us the last 2 updates. So we are accepting MSANTHROPE'S word. That's why I keep questioning you on your attitude toward Msanthrope, and that's why I keep questioning your judgment at this point.

[DawgHouse]

223. It appears there are a couple of recent photos on the dogwalker's instagram.

Yoshi seems to be doing okay.

[AtheistCrusader]

225. An amazing turnaround given the dire description of the dog's condition a day before.

That thick coat will prevent you from seeing a clear indication of the dog's weight or hydration, but I'm not seeing any hair loss in that photo. Do you?

Certainly nothing that would concern me from a medical standpoint.

[DawgHouse]

228. Nah, he looks fine in the photo but it's sometimes hard to tell from a photo.

He is definitely in a much better place!

[AtheistCrusader]

229. I agree, it is difficult to tell from a single photo.

[daredtowork]

245. Still looking for holes? You realize a lawyer is taking care of the dog now, right?

You may want to stop short of slander.

[AtheistCrusader]

252. Slander is spoken. Perhaps you meant libel.

Nothing I've written here can be construed anything lie that. Go to the Instagram feed. Have a look. No evidence of unhealthy underweight or hair loss.

Hair doesn't grow back in two days.

[JTFrog]

149. What I don't care about is your disgusting posts about TTW's situation.

There are several very long time DUer's involved in this first hand. I trust them any day over some poster feigning concern after admitting they are only reading these threads for entertainment.

The only person's credibility shot here is yours.

[840high]

154. It's none of your

friggin' business what people believe or don't.

[cwydro]

204. Well, to be fair.

This IS a discussion board.

TTW chose to place her personal business out here in order to ask for money, not once, not twice, but I believe at least six times now.

That she commented once that she used small denomination currency as toilet paper kind of speaks to the situation now, does it not?

Those of us who are skeptical, and there are many other skeptics who are not posting, have a right to our comments.

Ignore us - hey we're kicking the donation threads, so you see? There's a good side to everything.

[JTFrog]

216. And still being as nasty as possible regardless of testimony and photos.

Hard to fathom some people being that cruel and heartless, but here it is in this thread (and others) for all to see.

The good side is that some sunshine has been shone in some pretty disgusting corners of DU.

[Person 2713]

158. Are you projecting guilt from some past scam you pulled? I can only think of two reasons

someone would have such bizarre questioning accusations as you do. Who would think this way?
Where would these thoughts come from?

[SheilaT]

164. Nope. No scams on my part.

But TTW has been posting here since February, begging for money.

[daredtowork]

173. This is what you don't understand

even though I tried to explain it to you in the past.

and I tried to keep it tentative, because there are scammers out there.

but it takes a lot of TIME to get your act together when you have the threat of homelessness hanging over you and you suddenly have to arrange for a lot of stuff: you are constantly calling for resources. You are already depressed. A lot of things don't come through. People are pestering you. (EVERYONE wants updates). TTW had legal matters to follow up on which is a lot of bureaucracy and paperwork. TTW also lived out of town, which was travel.

TTW was also trying to keep her pet and stay where she was currently living: this would seem shifty to some who would only "help" on a minimalist basis - i.e. if she sold everything, including the pet. That's what a lot of the dodging is about.

TTW tried to maintain her privacy throughout all this. She also didn't know how to do some computer things. She had competing demands on her time so she would disappear to do one thing while people kept harping at her.

All this time TTW was trying to get a job. This is like squeezing a balloon. You put time in one area, and the other area where you need to be doing stuff comes apart. The fact TTW managed to find a job while transitioning her housing and still hold on to her pet over the course of a few months is pretty good. It can take some people years, especially if they are depressed/sick looking and being rejected for work.

Coming back month after month: that's called RENT.

I expressed this worry the first time TTW was collecting because there were no programs we found that addressed her housing needs, though a few people were claiming TTW "ignored resources". Actually most didn't meet her needs. There aren't any that cover rent because, guess what, governments hate to be hit up for money on a regular basis, too! I replied to her original OP that I thought this was going to put her in a position of having to come back repeat times, which might raise hackles if it competed with other DUers that needed help: but there weren't any other options since Pennsylvania didn't have any rent programs.

TTW wasn't able to collect a lot up front: that's why she kept coming back. Guess WHY she wasn't able to collect all that much up front. =.=

To be fair, her story was so fragmented and stream-of-consciousness, that I was waiting to see what happened month-to-month, too. I asked people to check on her in the background. The tenor of her experience frankly rung true to me, and I didn't see the problem with her trying to collect money on other sites as someone claimed, since she wasn't getting much here. I understand a lot of behavior that people were regarding as suspicious including the reluctance to post the photograph, the getting spammed with too much bureaucratic crap to do while you really need to get a job, having to answer to lots of different people trying to "help" you, feeling like you have to be shifty just so you can keep something everyone is insisting you sell because that's the terms of them "helping" you...in fact that looked so familiar that I had to be careful that TTW wasn't using some of my own writing as elements of the supposed "scam".

I have been circumspect about this whole thing.

But getting msanthrope's testimony is really the clincher. At that point you should just give up your skepticism. msanthrope is not a "softie". She is a Hillary Democrat, quite the Snowden-hater, and I sort of regarded her as a mean person on DU. Msanthrope and TTW are polar opposites. So if she is willing to help out TTW by looking after her dog, and vouches for some of this story: then that's a done deal for me.

[SheilaT]

188. Have you noticed that TTW

has not posted lately?

[daredtowork]

190. She.does.not.have.computer.access. =.=

You've been told that, but you just hurl back more "questions" about it.

I wonder, if I had limited access to a library computer (if TTW even has that - who knows what she has access to), would DU be a big priority for me? Or would I need to attend to email and resource follow-up first?

[roody]

304. Only you.

[PearliePoo2]

151. We were told that we would get updates and photos! I imagine after a resonable amount of time

if we get neither, you might have legitimate questions..In the mean time i'm going for this is all legit.

I'm hoping for the best for dog and human!

[SheilaT]

159. Bingo.

Where are the updates? Where are the photos?

It is NOT concern trolling to ask legitimate questions.

And anyone who has been following this entire soap opera, which started all the way back in February, is right to be just a bit skeptical.

Meanwhile, no real verification, and continued requests for money.

[JTFrog]

162. Proof that you don't even read what you are responding to. Bingo?

The post you replied to suggests cooling your heels and waiting a reasonable amount of time before shooting your mouth off. And advocates giving the benefit of the doubt in the meantime (as do I, given the information provided from other DUers).

Reasonable does not equal right fucking now because you demand it.

By the way... you should do a little research into those that have verified TTW's situation. Every time you post some ridiculous bullshit like "no real verification", you insult not only TTW, you also insult some incredibly well respected members of this community.

[daredtowork]

177. Let's see she got a new job in a few months

despite having homelessness hanging over her and having to find a new place and having to deal with a lawsuit and having to deal with all those social programs and trying to raise money every which way she could. "Since February" is actually not doing too badly on the normal score of how long people remain unemployed. I believe she has actually been employed a couple months but was unable to save enough to move for first/last/deposit.

And she did take a picture of her dog. That "old" picture you are talking about. But you demand a newer picture.

As for verification, I asked Omaha Steve to do that after he expressed skepticism. He called her and changed his mind. But his changing his mind was not enough to change your mind.

Then some other people who talked to her began to speak out on her behalf. Those people don't constitute "verification" either on your behalf.

Once again, those monthly calls for money are called "rent". TTW ran out of resources and Pennsylvania offered nothing to help her with her rent (that I saw). TTW attempted to stay where she was by filing a lawsuit over slum conditions. This backfired because that meant she had to put some rent in escrow or something: some lawyer posted to explain it, but apparently Pennsylvania law sucks and is against the tenant on that. TTW used the money collected here for that escrow account to avoid immediate eviction. She still didn't have the money to move. Yet your complaint is she came back "every month".

It's called rent.

TTW needed the money to move. If she had been able to collect a HUG GoFundMe up front like some people, she wouldn't have had to keep coming back. But that didn't happen. She was coming up short and begging everyone she knew every month. Luckily a friend bailed her out last month.

It's bad enough that Clinton dismantled "welfare as we know it" so people have no government resources anymore. Now, when they are forced to panhandle, they are presumed to be scammers, and there is no "verification" that will ever be good enough. No one wants to see someone "keep coming back for money."

Yet there is rent every month. And no governments support for it.

[SheilaT]

181. I'm not demamding a new picture. Just one that shows this dog

in her new, hopefully better surroundings. TTW according to her own accounts, has been in a terrible landlord/tenant situation for years. Do I need to post all of her earlier threads? I'd be happy to do so. And in those earlier threads lots of DU people offered many suggestions, and even offered to take in Yoshi. Every single time she had some excuse or another as to why she couldn't do so. Or she ignored those offers. Meanwhile, she begged for money. Various people here gave her money. People here offered to take in her dog, or offered excellent other placements for her dog. Nada. She'd disappear without responding. Approximately once a month she showed up, hysterical over her impending homelessness.

This thread wasn't even started by her, but a surrogate who gave us information on her behalf. But she herself has never posted in this thread, nor do we have any proof, other than some postings, that the dog has really been rescued. Meanwhile, the begging for donations continue.

By her own account, she's stayed in a terrible situation for years. Then she supposedly lost her job because of her landlady, and somehow couldn't find any other job at all.

And you wonder why I'm skeptical?

[daredtowork]

183. you are being skeptical of MSANTHROPE

Which makes me think you are just so hung up on proving that you were "right" to be skeptical of TTW in the first place that you just can't give it up now.

TTW did not "ignore offers" - she sorted through offers that worked for her. She was trying to stay in her current location with Yoshi. This is that "shiftyness" I was talking about where the poor person tries to do what is logical for them while the dictatorial control-freak "helping" person tries to make them do something illogical for them like move to another state or sell all their books or change to an all tofu diet because tofu is on sale a lot these days. Poor people are whole people with autonomy, and people who are genuinely trying to help need to back off a bit even if they did give money and offer some resources.

TTW "disappeared" because she had stuff to do like go to job interviews and do her job...and hanging on the Internet was a low priority for her. She probably hoped each month she would be done with it. But no, she had to show up each month hysterical because she wasn't making her rent.

This thread wasn't started by her because TTW was evicted last month. D'oh. This has been explained a few times.

Regarding not being able to find a job: TTW sounds depressed and frazzled to me. I'm frankly surprised she found a job already and is able to hold it down. I thought she was going to end up in a shelter and would lose Yoshi. Which for her, would probably mean a suicide attempt, or a successful suicide. So I think your attitude about this whole thing is uncalled for.

[SheilaT]

186. Yes, I am skeptical of msanthrope.

And starting back in February, TTW either ignored good suggestions or came back with reasons why they wouldn't work for her. She was utterly determined to stay in a slumlord situation, rather than moving on. She turned down all offers to take in Yoshi. She begged for money. Somehow, she couldn't possibly find work.

Recently I spoke to a personal friend (no connection of any kind to DU) who complained about not being able to find a job. I asked her if she'd looked into retail or fast food, and she looked quite startled as she admitted she hadn't looked into either of those. I get a lot impatient at those who say there are no jobs available, period, end of sentence, without ever looking at things like fast food, retail. pizza delivery, as if those are not jobs.

My point is that TTW has been here begging for help for six months or more, having stayed in a (according to her) truly terrible tenant/landlord situation. She seems to have no clue about lots of things, including basic landlord/tenant rights. Doesn't understand how to navigate Craigs List. Isn't willing to seek out rescue programs for her dog.

And now, I'm expected to believe third hand that all is magically healed? Oh, and by the way, more money is needed for the dog walker.

[daredtowork]

191. Moving is stressful

It also requires first/last/months deposit: I remember TTW trying to explain her reasons, but then people would just look for ways to poke holes in those. But the main thing is TTW had a lot going on because she was unemployed and depressed at the same time.

TTW did not avoid looking for work in retail. Either her previous job or the one she picked up was in one of some sort of store. Often older people can't get those jobs even if they apply, though. The managers won't hire them. It is *you* who seem to be projecting some GOP attitude about work and welfare there. TTW was asking for help even after she was working because she still didn't have enough money to move. Part of the reason she didn't have enough money because you and a couple of others had sat like toads on her original thread to prevent her from getting enough help.

The "rescue programs" you cite for her dog were going to TAKE her dog.

This was also a problem with moving - finding a place that would take the dog.

This was also a problem with taking up nice offers from STRANGERS to move across the country. First - would you take up the nice offer from the MALE stranger? Secondly, a woman with a dog did this on Daily Kos a couple years ago, and then was told the invite was only meant to last a couple of weeks. Suddenly the women and the dog were left with NOTHING in the middle of nowhere, Maine. It took a lot more money to get her out of that situation than it would have to have stayed in an urban area with a semblance of social services! TTW wanted to stay near the city.

Now NOTHING is magically healed. TTW was couch surfing and now staying in some room and trying to save up enough money to get a place where she can have her dog back. Msanthrope's Ex will take care of the dog. He still needs dog food, and TTW still needs to get into a better place. It probably would have been better to pivot from the place she was staying. But that didn't work out, did it?

[SheilaT]

194. It's not as hard as people pretend to get a job when older.

I got four jobs after the age of 60. So don't tell me it can't happen, especially in retail, especially in any entry level jobs. She ignored offers to take her dog. She didn't look into breed rescue. She stayed in a supposed slumlord place for YEARS.

And I'm supposed to give sympathy?

More to the point, why hasn't she posted here? Why?

[daredtowork]

198. That is YOU

You weren't compromised in mental status and faced with homelessness and losing your pet companion at the time were you?

While you are talking about what TTW "ignores" it is actually YOU who are ignoring all the valid reasons you were given before in the actual threads (though it didn't stop you mouthing off there), and you are continuing on "auto-repeat" here. I'm not going to repeat the other questions about offers to take her dog, breed rescue, staying in her place, which I've answered repeatedly elsewhere: it seems like you are just trolling at this point.

But wait, do you deny trolling? How does the below conversation sound to you when you read it out loud?

"Why hasn't she posted here?"

"She doesn't have computer access."

"Why hasn't she posted here?"

"She doesn't have computer access."

"Why hasn't she posted here?"

"She doesn't have computer access."

"Why hasn't she posted here?"

"She doesn't have computer access."

"Why hasn't she posted here?"

"She doesn't have computer access."

[msanthrope]

199. "Why doesn't she go to the library?"

Well, I would tell the person who actually knows nothing about the mechanics of accessing the Internet at the library.....the library limits you to 30 minutes. Now, if I'm a job-seeking near homeless person, I know the first godamn thing I'm gonna do when I log on is go to DU and respond to the mental masturbation posted about me. Yes.

[Tipperary]

203. All this other stuff aside, can you

please let us know the name of the dog day care place? I am glad Yoshi is safe, but it seems unfair to simply just forget about the other poor animals who might also be suffering.

Thank you for all you have done.

[JTFrog]

219. msanthrope isn't just "forgetting about the other poor animals".

It has been stated that an investigation has begun. Perhaps, as a lawyer, msanthrope would know best how to proceed with the releasing of information.

[AtheistCrusader]

212. Ok, that's not fair at all.

Our libraries don't limit you in that fashion. Not if there isn't a line waiting for a terminal (never is). So that's a highly specific retort for a specific library or district or municipality or state, not a universal true-ism about all libraries and accessing the Internet through them.

Please understand that for those of us who are familiar with scams, been victims of scams, or helped other people pick up the pieces after being scammed, that sort of claim and that sort of behavior is a HUGE red flag.

Nothing shown verifies much about the story at all. The photo you posted with the dog walker shows what appears to be a hale and robust dog, but, it's a thick coat breed and that can hide a lot of health problems, like ribs showing. Fine. Picking up kennel cough is fully expected if you don't vaccinate the dog for bordatella prior to kenneling, and even then the stress can lower the dogs immunity and pick it up anyway. That's no reflection on the kennel except perhaps bad policy of possibly allowing non-vaccinated dogs to board there, MAYBE.

This type of dog is high energy and high on personality, to use a euphemism. Highly likely to suffer separation anxiety. That can have profound effects on the dog from weight loss, refusal to drink or eat, self harm, you name it. So none of that necessarily reflects on the boarders as well.

There is a reason most rescue orgs don't hold and wait, they place the dog with a permanent home asap, for the dogs sake. Visiting-leaving visiting-leaving can explain the alleged poor condition of the dog all on its own without any wrongdoing on the part of the boarder. I've seen a separation anxiety driven Akita eat through a residential wall before. Drywall, 2x4's, wiring, all of it. Akita sized hole. Big. That's not good for the dog either.

So, anyway, please be patient with those that are somewhat skeptical of the claims thrown out thus far. It all may be true, but it's not solid case on its own. I certainly don't believe the claims about the boarding people, without some evidence. I've certainly seen some awful caretakers, but I've also seen some horrendous overreacting or unreasonable customers inventing phantom problems to complain about and if you do some random searching online, you can find plenty of info too.

Please respect the fact that some of us have experienced things in our own journey through life that lead us to be skeptical of these sorts of stories. From being victims ourselves, to helping others who have been victimized. It's not necessarily about being mean to TTW.

It's not paranoia if there are really people out to get you. There exist external sites to DU populated by former banned members of Du and extremely hostile folks who would love nothing more than to rip off or otherwise hurt honest DU members. Keep that in mind, please. It's a balance, between having an open heart and wanting to help people in a bad state, and insulating yourself from thieves, bad actors, and folks who just flat out want to hurt you. Everyone strikes a different balance and that balance is informed by our personal experiences.

I hope TTW is real, and I hope that person gets to a better place and there is a happy ending for all involved. I really do. But this ongoing saga has thrown so many warning flags for me, confidence is not high. Who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I don't think it's fair to assume SheliaT is acting in bad faith. We all come from our experiences and some people have experienced or seen some awful, awful shit.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

214. It's not fair to condemn someone concerned about DUers as a whole as opposed to one member

DUers are amazing and generous people, and sometimes that could lead to one abusing said generosity. We all have to look out for each other!!!

You said it far better than anyone here.

[JTFrog]

218. There is nothing fair about concern trolling.

That is all this was. Concern trolling to the nth degree.

Why on earth are people trying to defend the cruel and heartless people who in actuality are probably making life a little more hell for someone already there?

If this was one or two posts expressing concern, maybe I'd buy it. It's really ironic that this is being done to a poster named "Torch The Witch" because that is exactly what happened here. A few insecure and heartless folks felt the need to tear this woman down.... all in the name of "concern" for DUers. Well TTW is a DUer. A long time DUer.

"I hope TTW is real"

Are you kidding me? Are you really going to help perpetuate this bullshit? After several long time DUers came forth and even photos have been provided.

This is beyond unreal.

SheilaT posted time and again that he was only interested in the ENTERTAINMENT VALUE of these threads. Why on earth are you defending that shit?

[AtheistCrusader]

220. There are people for whom the number of red flags I've observed in this story will reach that conclu

sion. You bet. Not surprising or unusual. Some people react to that with polite caution, some people take a bit more jaded approach, often informed by the number of times they've seen people mistreated and ripped off. I'm not exactly defending it, but I'm certainly not going to judge it. I would encourage you to try to understand, rather than just yelling 'concern troll'. Some people are just 'done' with things that smell fishy, if you take my meaning.



TTW 'lost' me when the poster ruled out giving the dog up to a rescue society. They place dogs with forever homes as quickly as possible, because separation anxiety and other issues can permanently harm the dog. (Could explain all the alleged bad outcomes of the boarding group, whoever it was) Sometimes you have to sedate a dog to get over it. Certain breeds are more prone to it.

The vantage point I come from in life, my relationship with a pet isn't the most important thing in the relationship. I love a pet? I'm going to do the best thing for that pet. In this case, that best thing is clearly a stable, permanent home. Not 'put my dog in a kennel till I sort *my* shit out'. That's (to me) wholly unfair to the pet. That is not the right solution. I'm sorry. That's disregarding the needs of a live, social animal that has no understanding of the situation.

Why on earth are people trying to defend the cruel and heartless people who in actuality are probably making life a little more hell for someone already there?

It's been said TTW doesn't have time to post anything here. It follows that TTW then does not have time to read anything here, so I fail to see the problem of discussing the issue openly, without filters to protect TTW's feelings.

If we are wrong about TTW's motives, and this is a scam, or something inbetween the obvious range of possibilities, who would then be the cruel and heartless party? Could it be you, for attacking skeptical posters? For giving cover to a bad actor, even though you yourself would be a victim in that case?

If it's a scam or something close to, know this; I've seen worse. I've seen more elaborate constructs. I've seen more honest people sucked in, and putting themselves in a position of defending it (like you, calling people insecure and heartless (a personal attack BTW)). I've also seen situations like this by people who aren't exactly hostile scammers, but certainly bad people taking advantage of the honest generosity of others.

Not seen many happy outcomes. Wish that weren't the case, but that's the reality of it.

[JTFrog]

221. Wait... so you are implying this is still a scam?

Even tho several long time highly reputable DUer's have talked to and verified TTW's situation and now one has possession of the dog that you say should have been given up to rescue (photos provided and all)?

I fail to see the benefit of continuing the insinuations and accusations and I really do find it heartless and cruel to do so.

[AtheistCrusader]

222. It remains a possibility.

I noted some hedging in how 'verified' those posters were about the entirety of the situation. Another warning flag.

But this doesn't have to be a bifurcating issue between <honest> and <scam>. This could be something inbetween, like bad judgment.


You bet I say that dog should be given up to rescue. You bet. Still do. Current state as described still maintains contact and separation between TTW and the dog. Keeping the dog in a state of home-limbo until TTW's life is sorted, is not fair. And now, it has established dependency upon the caretakers, making it difficult or impossible for most reasonable people to back out of the deal. That relationship might not be abused, but It can be. Very easily. Seen it way too many times.

So yeah, it could still be a scam. Or it could just be a really bad situation. Abusive of the good nature of the people involved. Lots of possibilities.

I certainly don't see them opting to take the best option for the dog. Best option is a home. A Home(TM). Not temporary storage.

[JTFrog]

224. It also remains a possibility that pigs may fly out of my ass...

And then there is also the possibility that people might show a little of the compassion that they show toward animals toward another human being.

But you go right on judging people, making your insinuations and pretending that these aren't personal attacks because the poster can't see them right at this moment in time.

I've seen a lot of warning flags in this situation. But they have nothing to do with TTW herself or the people helping her.

[AtheistCrusader]

227. TTW has choices. Options. The dog does not.

So yeah, my compassion analysis bends a tad in favor of engineering the best outcome for the dog first.


I have raised possibilities, I haven't judged TTW. You've accused others of bullying in this thread, yet here you are... I hope you still feel good about your posts on this issue in a month, or a year, etc.

I know I will, because my first concern is putting that dog in a stable home. Just like the mission of any rescue org for any animal.

[JTFrog]

230. Uh huh. n/t

[cwydro]

259. Oh my.

[daredtowork]

244. Engineering best outcome for the dog first???!!!

Are we even on DU anymore???!!! What even happened to promoting policy that helps people?

I care about the dog, too: but lets put TTW first! The best thing about this dog situation is that it finally gets a number of DUers involved to verify TTW's own story.

[AtheistCrusader]

250. I respect this is an emotional issue but

Please keep in mind all that I said. Yoshi has no voice. Cannot ask for help. Cannot truly express desire.

Loss of weight/hair could be a form of communication all its own. Very different from what you might assume.

I suspect TTW will get adequate help. I would caution against predicating TTW's recovery on the dog. That would be so unfair to a dog.

[daredtowork]

253. Just because ppl have a voice doesn't mean they get help

it often means they just get trolled.

[AtheistCrusader]

255. I haven't stopped anyone from helping.

Far beyond my powers as a guy on an Internet message board.

[cwydro]

237. I'm not sure what your personal involvement is in this,

but you seem a bit overwrought.

AtheistCrusader makes valid points.

I've followed this saga for the last six months and there are a lot of things that just don't make sense.

You're the one who keeps calling people names, making personal attacks, and using profanity.

As the other poster pointed out, some of us have been victims of scams. I had a dear friend with a heart of gold who was totally ripped off in a situation not unlike this one.

I've never forgotten that because of the pain and financial hardship it caused her.

[daredtowork]

247. He/she is angry for the same reason I am

When you "doubters" got involved in the threads, you undermined TTW's ability to raise money.

Now you should be doubting no more and a little bit ashamed of yourselves. Yet ShielaT is holding on to her doubt to the ridiculous INFINITE level. Each petty demand that is met creates another doubt. There is no pleasing her. The demands she has for verification are indeed irrational.

She complains about TTW "ignoring" what people tell her, yet she blatantly ignores what has been explained to her in the previous threads, and what I explained to her over and over and over again to her here.

Some of her ideas about what TTW "should" be doing right now, at her beck and call, are preposterous.

When she gets her demands met, I don't see any mea culpas.

I, too, am wary of scammers, but this went way beyond the pale.

This is called "sucking at being human beings."

[sketchy]

251. +1

Your attempts to patiently explain things to everyone are not going unappreciated.
Thank you from one longtime DU-er.

[cwydro]

258. How did we "undermine" TTW's ability to raise money?

I would assume that each and every poster here is an adult who can make up their own minds.

Many have even said so.

And goodness gracious me, TTW certainly has some vociferous supporters here.

I haven't seen any other skeptics do anything other than express THEIR own opinions. This is a message board, and we have the right to do that.

You and a particular other poster have continued to engage in personal attacks. I have not done that, nor have I seen the other skeptics do that. You and the other poster continue to call names and use ugly language.

I doubt it helps your cause. (Or your blood pressure.)

[daredtowork]

263. You know exactly what you are doing

Last edited Wed Aug 5, 2015, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

By continually sowing doubts, calling out "warning signs" and "red flags", and bringing up pseudo-"evidence", you are dissuading people from donation.

Since no one has met TTW, everyone has to go on trust on DU. Earlier we only had her story to go on: she was unable to raise enough money in her original post because people like you and ShielaT tanked it. Then people like you and ShielaT come back waving your arms, legs, and any other body part you have to wave that she is "always" coming back for money as if that is "additional" evidence when it was partly *your* fault she couldn't raise much money in the first place.

TTW's main problem was she had no DU people to go personally to vouch for her. The first time I saw her thread, I PM'd her and told her that's what she needed to do: talk to some respected, old-time DUers, try to meet with them personally, and ask them to vouch for her. I also asked someone to contact her.

She got that support, but the "skeptics" did not lay off.

And even now, with Msanthrope, a well-known and venerable DUer - the only kind of trust and verification we can have on the Internet - meeting with TTW and taking up the tremendous burden of providing her dog shelter for a few weeks, you can't give it a rest.

Seriously, that's messed up.

[cwydro]

271. Sure thing.

We didn't "sew" any doubts lol - perhaps you meant "sow" as in "sowing seeds of doubt?"

I trust DUers to make up their own minds, but you can trust me on this, there are many more skeptics than just those who are posting on this thread.

No, we have a right to our opinions and to express them here. Which we have done.

Sorry you don't agree. You have a brilliant day now.

We'll all look forward to the updates.

[JTFrog]

284. "We'll all look forward to the updates."

You should get a new hobby.

[JTFrog]

281. You can keep on justifying the disgusting insinuations and accusations all you want...

All these "valid points" cloaked in "concern" don't excuse the maligning of character of a long time member of this community.

I sure hope you never have to ask for help and have demands to put your entire life under a microscope from people who aren't even interested in helping your situation. No one deserves to be put through that on top of the hell they are already going through.

I'm glad you all feel so proud of your vigilance.

[Tipperary]

234. I think you said what many of us have

been thinking. The dog should not be schlepped around like a bike needing storage. I am very sad for this dog, though happy he is in responsible hands at this point.

[daredtowork]

243. that's not a "red flag" that's "YOUR POINT OF VIEW"

And that's also the problem with ShielaT's scam theories and all the hole-poking she tries to do. The logic error you are mistaking is assuming you come from the eminent point of reason and your point of view should be applied to TTW's case.

Even though TTW is poor and ran out of resources, TTW has autonomy as a human being, and she still tries to make personal choices and hold on to things concerning her identity rather than let herself be controlled from above by schmucks like you. One problematic factor in here is she wanted to stay with her dog. A lot of "helpers" and "people who know better" and "people who were going to call her a scammer if TTW didn't do as they say" noted the fact that TTW didn't give away her dog or make it easier for herself to move by giving away her dog. '

That made her situation more difficult, but that doesn't constitute a "red flag" or make her a "scammer". It doesn't mean she "ignored resources". It simply means she was trying to keep her dog, and she was wiggling under the burning gaze of YOUR scrutiny as people like you informed her she would be a scammer if she asked for money but did not submit to your control.

[Demit]

276. I'd be careful calling people schmucks.

I think AtheistCrusader's posts have been extraordinarily thoughtful. In the face of your overwrought insults he/she has continued to explain carefully the logic behind his/her points. I'd be careful who you call a schmuck.

[daredtowork]

278. "Red flags"? "Dogs before people"?

Your interpretation of "thoughtful" and "logical" leaves much to be desired. He should not be intervening on this thread where TTW's situation has been verified by Msanthrope, who even went through the trouble of providing the PICTURES everyone was demanding.

Frankly, I wouldn't have even bothered with that.

[Demit]

286. As someone pointed out upthread, this is a discussion forum.

I'm afraid that means you don't get to decide who "intervenes" on a thread, whatever that word means to you.

Yes, the hard truth is that dogs aren't possessions the way that furniture is. Dogs have emotions and get highly upset in unstable situations. Being handed around, no matter how goodhearted the temporary caretakers are, is an unstable situation. I understand TTW's clinging to the idea of keeping her dog if she can. I suspect she's hoping to get enough cash to be able to find an apartment that will even take a big dog. In Philadelphia & environs that won't be easy. She might need a hefty non-refundable deposit upfront. Additionally, even if you have a small 25 lb dog, you pay a premium in rent. If she cannot accumulate the windfall she needs in a reasonable amount of time, she really does have to think about the dog's emotional well-being. She might have to let him go, to someone who is in a more stable situation.

[daredtowork]

292. This is not a "random" forum - this is DEMOCRATIC Underground

People who post here are still expected to adhere to certain values and a certain culture. They are still expected to adhere to certain courtesies. And there is a famous general rule that applies to all forums: "Don't be schmuck."

It's sad that wingnuts that opine won't serve gay people who want to get married are instantly showered with thousands of dollars in GoFundMe accounts while poor TTW was sabotaged at every turn. If people really "cared about the dog", they would stop trying to use his supposed "emotional well-being" as a wedge to further punish TTW for being poor and instead throw her few bucks, too.

Don't be a schmuck.

[Demit]

296. Yes, thank you for explaining to me where I am.

Click on the little index card next to my name. I've been here for some time. And I've never, in all that time, made as many flat assertions about people and their motivations as you have in this thread alone. No one can mollify someone who has that frame of mind, in my experience, no matter how courteous we remain. Some people are just so sure of their ability to know what is in another person's mind that they don't bother to listen, they just make up more fanciful insults instead (a wedge to punish TTW for being poor?). I don't think people like that actually know what courtesy on a discussion board is.

[daredtowork]

308. You might want to listen to the feedback you are getting. nt

[catrose]

261. true

And where is the library and how does she get to it when she's spending her daylight hours working and living in a "not safe" space, besides having a million other things to do just to survive. Responding to people that aren't going to be convinced no matter what, just like Republicans, would rate way down the Must Do Now scale with me.

[daredtowork]

277. That's what's blowing my mind here

isn't it the Republicans who are supposed to be:

- chanting "get a job" to a person who gets a job but still can't quite make the rent.

- continually disbelieving a person in poverty and implying they are a "welfare queen".

- pointing out they should apply for a job "delivering pizza" (even though they are already seeking/have a minimum wage job).

- putting dogs before people.

- continually demanding "proof" and "verification" on an apparently ideological basis even after said proof and verification has been given.

- does not take into accounts affects of stress/mental illness. (i.e., "no SSI for feeling depressed and a back ache&quot .

One wonders what such posters are doing on DU. And what right they have calling for *other* people to be banned.

[SheilaT]

262. I frequently use my library to go online.

No lengthy wait, although if they are busy they will limit you to 30 minutes.

[demmiblue]

264. Library Girl, is that you?! n/t

[SheilaT]

266. Nope. I'm just me, SheilaT

[daredtowork]

279. Libraries have different rules in different places.

You don't even know how near TTW lives to a library.

Once more your stubborn insistence on projecting your situation on TTW is astounding. This is not YOUR situation. It is HER situation. It is taking place where SHE lives, not where YOU live. It is taking place under HER conditions, not under YOUR conditions.

[JTFrog]

285. This isn't about you.

I"m sure the only thing the majority of DUers want to hear from you right now is a great big apology.

Yet here you are quadrupling down on your concern trolling.

Unbelievable.

[trueblue2007]

275. I think sheila needs to find a real life.

[trueblue2007]

274. Sheila, to give sympathy, you'd have to have a heart.

reading from all these notes, I don't believe you have one.

[JTFrog]

287. +1

Almost enough to make you feel sorry for her.

Almost.....

[JTFrog]

193. And despite your best efforts to thwart it,

and regardless of what you believe, good people will continue to help.

Your beliefs are insignificant in the equation.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over that.

Good night.

[msanthrope]

195. Thank you for your kind words. Updated above...nt

[msanthrope]

197. I would totally be skeptical of msanthrope. She's the kind of person who would let you

run your mouth, declaring all sorts of shit that gets disproved with a five-line update.

[JTFrog]

200. Can you believe he wanted TTW banned for having the audacity to ask for help?

I'd suggest she be banned from DU, but I'm beginning to look forward to these monthly threads as pure entertainment.

I am livid over that heartless bullshit. It's the kind of tripe one expects from bootstrap conservatives. And to have trolled every single thread? If there was anyone who should be banned in this scenario, it sure as hell isn't TTW.

Thank you so much for your help and for following through with the updates. You have done an amazing thing.

[msanthrope]

201. Ex and I are trying to get Yoshi to the best possible place for him.....

He's not a bad dog, nor a vicious one. The Akita breed, however, is a primitive bloodline. Ex and dogwalker have reached out to former and current Akita owners in the neighborhood, foster families, rescue personnel, and breed experts.

We are trying to be as objective as possible about Yoshi's long-term prospects, and what can reasonably be done to secure for him a placement that minimizes his understandable fear and anxiety.

At the same time, TTW is trying to pick up the pieces. We don't know the whole story, but she's not in a current living situation where Yoshi can be. So, at the minimum, she would have to move again. She is trying to maintain stable employment. If I thought DU was being scammed, I would say so. Posters who are uncomfortable giving money can always give moral support, financial guidance, and finally, some forbearance.

No solution is going to be perfect, but the fact is, Yoshi could not stay at the doggie daycare. I don't think they were equipped to handle that amount, or type of dog. I'll provide DU with any update as to wrongdoing or negligence.

We also have to maintain our jobs....And our daughter's needs, and her companion animal also take some time....

[RobinA]

236. OK, Moral Support

Thank you for being willing to take on the well-being of this beautiful, personable, and potentially very difficult breed of dog. I have my fingers crossed that you are able to find a proper situation for him and that he will prosper. Akitas can be wonderful, but they are not for everyone.

[irisblue]

211. wow, that is so mean and cold hearted

a shame that poster calls herself a democrat.

[JTFrog]

217. Methodical bullies and micromanagers.

They murk around in a quicksand of their own devising and they do not believe that anyone can see through the mud.

[Violet_Crumble]

205. I don't praise people often, but I'm going to praise yr patience in this thread..

That's on top of thinking that you and yr ex are awesome people for stepping up and rescuing Yoshi. I didn't realise until I saw the instagram pic what a big, solid dog he is. I hope knowing Yoshi is safe and being well cared for means that TTW has one less thing to worry about and it'll help her get back on her feet quicker.

After reading this thread with that person being skeptical of you and calling you a surrogate of TTW, blah blah blah, I was going to make a joke about how I remember years back when both of you registered at DU I thought to myself 'AHA! I bet those two have joined DU and what they're going to do is spend years stealthing and posting about politics and stuff until 2015 when they'll unleash their clever plan to trick DU. Thankfully SheilaT will be there to unmask them!'. But then I thought better of it because someone might take it seriously and it could unleash another fifty posts demanding all sorts of proof on behalf of 'us and 'we'...

[trueblue2007]

270. oh my gosh..... just stopi it already. dont you have anything better to do than nag?

[Kali]

309. you aren't being skeptical

you are being an asshole

[catrose]

160. True. The dog has barely been there 24 hours

And she said he needed some time to adjust. I'd hope everyone is focused on settling him in.

[trueblue2007]

272. OH GIVE IT A REST!! YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED AT ALL.

[Texasgal]

273. Her activity in this thread is

bizarre quite frankly.

[Sheldon Cooper]

207. Seek help.

Seriously.

[underahedgerow]

210. I was going to scream

'GO HOME!'

But I get alerted on when I do that shit.

[trueblue2007]

139. THANK YOU msanthrope and to all the people who helped Torch and her dog Yoshi !!!

Thank you God, I have been praying for a miracle.

[snooper2]

280. I don't think "god" did anything since it doesn't exist...other humans did

FYI

out of curiosity, were you literally praying, like on hands and knees or is that something people just say anymore?

[Demit]

155. Several DUers have asked about the bad doggie day care...

I'm curious too. I live in the Phila area, I have pets, and I'd like to know more about this place. Can you respond to our questions about that?

[SheilaT]

165. Yep. No word about the terrible doggie day care that we've been

told Yoshi was in. That TTW voluntarily put him in, after several other offers to take the dog in previous threads.

C'mon, people. Think. Does any of this make a lot of sense?

[cwydro]

172. There are a number of us concerned about that day care.

Surely the OP will let us know the name of it in her next update.

[Sunlei]

240. The dog looks ok and they did release the dog without demanding money first.

They also accepted the dog in without deposit, which many places would never do.

IMO, the owner was upset the dog was in a crate but perhaps the place had to use crates part of the time to separate, so other dogs could be out. or use crates in the afternoons when every dog in the world is sleeping And the dog must have been happy excited to see the owner and wanted to go home with her at that time, probably acted anxious because the owner was upset. That breed keys in on their owners emotions, they're a very devoted & Loyal breed.

[glinda]

157. Great news! For sure the "behavior" should be monitored as

I have three dogs of which two are not good with strangers or new situations. He may need to have a temporary leader of something put on his face to make sure as that is the last thing you need to have him lurch at a person or another dog. It happens.
Perhaps a simple diet for about three days of some rice and boiled chicken might help. Hopefully he did not get parasites while in prison. So easy to get like giarrdea (?sp) and such.
A previous poster is right....animals cannot fend for themselves very well...especially given human behavior..(Cecil)...so just being able to be looked after properly and not have all of the trauma might help him a lot.
You are fabulous!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TDale313]

163. Thank you and your ex for everything you've done.

For Yoshi and TTW.

[Demit]

202. Your reply about the doggie day care is kind of vague.

I really just wanted to know the name of the place so I didn't inadvertently use it for my own pets.

I don't know what you mean by "proper parties" and "investigations." That sounds like you're not sure whether the place really is bad or not--? Who are the proper parties?

If you're being vague because naming the place might be libel, could you send it to me in a private message?

[cwydro]

208. I'd like to know too.

Or if the conditions that were conveyed to us were not quite that bad, then let us know that.

I see no harm in letting us know where the dog was kept.

It is very unfair to the other animals there to be left to suffer.

[Texasgal]

291. It's in the OP follow up

The last paragraph.

[Texasgal]

283. First: Msapthrope was not there in person

to pick up the dog, her ex-husband was. They are not in the same state.

Second: it's been explained that Yoshi has a mild case of kennel cough and had intestinal issues,which are now being dealt with. These things could be caused by many factors, not just neglect at the day care center.

Third: Msanthrope is an attorney, this is her regular type of vocabulary.

Fourth: She owes NO ONE an explanation. She is not asking anyone for anything, so she owes nothing. She has explained it how she wanted to and she has every right to do so.

Hope this helps clear some things up.

[Demit]

289. Yes, I understand obfuscating language, thank you.

That's why I asked for language that would be more specific. In a private message, if necessary.

Did you read the weekend threads? The one that described the facility as dangerous? The one that described Yoshi as essentially being tortured, as possibly dying in the next few days? Maybe you don't have pets, and you apparently don't live in the Philadelphia area. I do. All I asked was for the NAME of this bad place. I think that was a fair thing to ask, Texasgal.

Oh, and you know what cleared things up? Msanthrope's update, in which she pretty much acknowledged that the description of the place had been very much exaggerated. As in, not true.

[Texasgal]

290. Yes. I have dogs. Two of them. Love them more than life!

The name of the place is not necessary since we are getting third hand information, this is why she was vague.

I do not live in the Philly area. I am also just a bit closer to this situation than most having spoken directly to Msanthrope. TTW via telephone.

I am just clearing things up a bit. Some the demands that have been asked of Msanthrope are ridiculous, she has already given so much by finding Yoshi a safe temporary home.

On edit: Regardless of the bad info about the dog day care, atleast this put a plan in motion for Yoshi to go to an appropriate place.

[catrose]

294. It read to me as though the ex confirmed first reports

Keeping a large dog in a small crate is torture, but it was the best the place could do. Yoshi was ill and needed to be removed right away. In fact, he had more symptoms than described by TTW. But other dogs who were not so big were fine.

My ex confirm[ed] to me that yoshe's condition had markedly deteriorated <also in 1st report>
he was listless and <also in 1st report>
was not feeling very well when they picked him up
he has had diarrhea
hair falling out <also in 1st report>
and a case of kennel cough that is being monitored.
Because yoshi is such an enormous dog the facilities available to him at the daycare were limited...
the crate where he was kept really did not allow him to turn around... <also in 1st report>
his exercise was extremely limited because he wasn't interacting with the other dogs... <problems w/exercise noted in 1st report>
both TTW and my ex felt that they did the best they could given the limitations Yoshi's size and temperament presented...
the limitations incurred illness...
Yoshi had reached a crisis point

[Demit]

297. Yes, the last few items were in Msanthrope's update after I had asked my question.

I did reply to Msanthrope's update and said that it was good news. But none of us could know that until she posted the updates, could we? All we knew was that the facility initially said that Yoshi would have a large crate but instead was given a small one; that TTW had called ahead to arrange a visit but when she arrived they tried to head her off by saying the dog was sleeping; that he had no water dish by his crate & was extremely thirsty when he came outside.

That certainly didn't sound good! The post that contained these details called it a dangerous facility and the poster said "please, please, please pity the poor dog." So yes, Msanthrope subsequently got a full picture of what was going on and when she conveyed it to us, corrected the initial dire impression & put minds to rest. We found out that Yoshi was not going to die in the next few days because of mistreatment, and thus I could know that my dogs likely wouldn't either, if I were to leave them in the care of this facility.

[gwheezie]

206. We only got one side of the doggie daycare story

When ttw 1st posted about it, it sounded very temporary. Sounds like they stepped up during s crisis and saved the dog from being on the street. If its daycare they're not set up to do rescue.

[Habibi]

213. Very important point.

They may have been doing the best they could with the situation.

[dofus]

209. So glad to see that lovely dog.

And what a wonderful recovery, since just a couple of days ago he was reported as having lost weight and his hair was falling out. It's truly wonderful what good care and love can do.

[Sunlei]

215. Thats good you have the dog now and I see the dog walker uses the right kind of secure

leash/collar combo. That's the type of collar/lead you need to have if you need to handle/move the dog in your home. especially if hes growling.

I suggest a secure pet gate on a room in your home, for the dog to stay rather then let the dog roam the entire home. He's an older dog so he will be most comfortable with his own space, a dog bed and his water right there. He can be fed in that area.

[msanthrope]

242. he's currently housed in the front parlor of the brownstone it's his own room and

It is light and airy.

[Sunlei]

248. sounds wonderful, he should be very comfortable with his own space and settle in.

Poor dogs probably exhausted from the couple weeks of upset in his routine and happy to be away from the chaos of the doggie day care

[catrose]

260. Lucky Yoshi! eom

[DawgHouse]

226. Yoshi's dogwalker has a few other photos of Yoshi

on her instagram. He looks like he's smiling!

[MoonRiver]

231. How can we see those? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

232. If you move your mouse over the picture, there's left/right navigation arrows.

[DawgHouse]

233. I just went to the dogwalker link in the OP

and clicked on her profile.

[MoonRiver]

235. Thanks. Yoshi does look good!

I'm concerned that the dog walker said foster can only take care of him for 2 weeks max. I thought it was for an indefinite period of time.

[joshcryer]

246. You rock msanthrope!

Hope your eyes feel better soon.

[daredtowork]

249. Thank you Msanthrope

Thank you for taking this particular burden off of TTW.

Trying to figure out what to do with her dog seemed to be a big factor in pulling her life back together. Even with this burden lifted, I'm sure it will be hard for her to pick up the pieces, save up money, move again to a place that will take her dog, and hold down a stable job when all this has happened to her. She has my sympathies. I'm very familiar with that place, and I've done my best to contribute by translating the supposed "holes" in TTWs story into the actual circumstances of someone facing homelessness.

You've really earned my respect, even if we disagree on Snowden.

[ohheckyeah]

254. It's insulting

to not only TTW and msanthrope but all of us that SheilaT and others think we are too stupid to weigh the info and decide for ourselves whether or not we believe it's a scam. I daresay if any of us have doubts or questions we can ask for ourselves.

I believe most of us absolve all the naysayers of any obligation to think this all through for us.

PS what I believe about the situation is my business as is how I spend my money.

[randome]

256. People who advertise their dissatisfaction with life. It's insulting and embarrassing.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[ohheckyeah]

269. Agree. nt

[stage left]

307. I heartily absolve all the naysayers

of any responsiblity in this matter. I'll do what I believe is right for me to do and what gives me pleasure. If they believe TTW, and I guess Msanthrope, too, is a scammer, all they have to do is not donate any money. Personally, I think Msanthrope is an angel. And her ex, too. And TTW has done very well to get a job, given all the pressure and stress she's been under.

[trueblue2007]

310. I AGREE. i think the posts by sheila went way over the line. the notes were humiliating to TTW

[underahedgerow]

311. In a previous post I offered THAT POSTER a bet of 100 bucks, where if it was proven that this whole

issue was BS, I would donate it to a charity of her choice, and if it was proven to be true and genuine, that she would donate to TTW's paypal and to post a big fat apology in an OP.

She sure STFU in a big hurry, never to be heard from again.

I hate trolls.

[ohheckyeah]

313. That was a

good move by you.

[catrose]

265. A modest proposal

I've already donated, but I'm going to count every concern/skeptic post and donate <unit of money> for each one. That unit might be small, because I just spent $500 in vet bills on two senior rescue kitties (owner killed herself--boyfriend dumped them). But that way, each of those posts becomes a force for good instead adding slightly more misery to the world. If some people want to join me, we could have TTW in the Florida Versailles in no time.

I'm in total awe of msanthrope & co. When people wanted updates, pictures, and the doggy daycare investigated, I was thinking, "Gee, just get the distressed, ill dog settled first and save pictures for when he's happy & healthy," and yet, she/he/they have done it all: updates, photos, and investigation. I don't know how to express enough gratitude and admiration.

[catrose]

268. I rounded up to 40 from this and other recent posts

easily divisible by ever so many numbers.

[daredtowork]

282. Count the new one at the bottom: Demit trying to get the "last word"

TTW was "emotionally" exaggerating Yoshi's condition, and Msanthrope is "circumspectly" covering up for her.

[catrose]

293. I saw that one right after I donated. *heavy sigh*

So I'll start a new list. Sort of like fighting ants in the summer in the country. Just when you think you've got everything sealed and cleaned, here they come again. Oh, well, more money for Yoshi!

[tencats]

288. Good on you!

Good on you for all that your doing!

[catrose]

299. Thanks much

Though, looking at your name, I feel like a slacker with only 6 cats currently in the house. More coming on Sunday...

[Demit]

267. Well that is good news.

The weekend thread describing Yoshi as being 'essentially tortured to death' in a 'dangerous facility' had readers understandably alarmed, me included.

I think it's fair to say you subsequently learned that the way the situation was described to DU member Moosepoop had been, shall we say, overstated? I hope my understanding is correct: that you are being circumspect out of regard for the emotional dog owner, and not because you want to protect a 'dangerous' doggy day care facility.

[JTFrog]

298. "and not because you want to protect a 'dangerous' doggy day care facility."

Is there a contest going on right now to see who can be the most offensive about this situation?

For the love jeebus....

/facepalm

[Demit]

300. Yes, I was telling Msanthrope I understood she wasn't withholding the name of the facility on purpose,

which I had speculated she might be doing, with the caution of a lawyer, so as not to damage their reputation in print.

Msanthrope was able to come to the conclusion that the initial description of the facility as 'dangerous' wasn't true. She was tacitly acknowledging that TTW had been hasty in accusing the facility of mistreatment…hence, her diplomatic comment "I wanted to give both of them a little time to have perspective about their experiences Monday night." Meaning perspective to realize that Yoshi's condition wasn't the fault of the facility. The facility had a good reputation from people who worked in the field & would have reason to know.

I am at a loss to understand why you are so ready to misinterpret & find suspicious the comments of some DUers who are longstanding members, while insisting that others must of course be considered trustworthy on that very basis. But you have made up your mind, you "know" these things to be true, you are heavily invested in your increasingly fevered imaginings, and no one will dissuade you. I'm certainly done trying. Good night.

[sketchy]

301. I think it's the heartlessness that JTFrog is objecting to, not suspicion

You said, "I am at a loss to understand why you are so ready to misinterpret & find suspicious the comments of some DUers who are longstanding members..."

There's a difference between finding people suspicious, and finding them heartless. When someone has just become homeless, it's not the usual response to think, "Oh, this looks like a great time to pile on this person."

And it seems like some people are thinking that very thing.

[Demit]

306. If that's so, then JTFrog should direct her responses to the appropriate people

and not lash out willy-nilly, don't you agree?

Look, I know people who are like JTFrog--and the other one who is excoriating me in this thread, I forget the name--in real life, so I'm not terribly wounded. There are people in life who get an idee fixe and filter every subsequent thing you say or do through it. Their thinking is limited in this way, and you can't win. They are permanently convinced they are right and, not only are you wrong, you are wrong for nefarious reasons. Oh well.

[onecaliberal]

302. Why does the Instagram photo say this is only for 2 weeks?

[Texasgal]

303. Because this is a temporary situation.

The two times daily walks are expensive and Yoshi needs to be somewhere where he is well cared for.

This situation was never a permanent thing. Hopefully, TTW will have a better plan in a few weeks.

[onecaliberal]

305. Gottcha, I thought it was as long as she needed.

On edit: I'm willing to
Contribute again.

[Tipperary]

312. I do not know all the personalities in this thread

but it seems to me to be a real shame that the dog is going to continue to be shuffled from pillar to post. If TTW has not been able to resolve this situation in 6 months, it appears this dog is in for even more stress and instability. I hope he can find a forever home, a stable and secure one.