General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBut ... but ... there were black confederate soldiers!
Fans of "southern heritage" are saying this again today
As the Southern insurrection collapsed, the Confederacy engaged in a debate, lasting more than a year, over the question of arming slaves to fight against the Northern armies. Many Southerners (such as General Howell Cobb, former governor of Georgia) opposed this, noting with anxiety and distress that If slaves will make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong
... On February 10, 1865, with support from the Davis administration, Congressman Ethelbert Barksdale of Mississippi introduced a bill granting Davis the power to accept black men as soldiers, but only with their masters' permission ... After strenuous debate .. the House of Representatives narrowly passed this bill on February 20 and sent it to the Senate ... The Senate, by a one-vote margin, approved a slightly amended version of the Barksdale bill on March 8; Davis signed it into law on March 13, 1865 ...
The bill did not offer freedom to any slaves who might choose fight to preserve Southern institutions. Lee surrendered to Grant on April 12
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)that's their story and they're sticking with it.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)The major Confederate armies moved with huge wagon trains carrying ammunition and other supplies. Those teamsters were almost entirely Black, often free Blacks of which there were tens of thousands throughout the south.
Do they count as soldiers? There's no doubt they defended themselves against cavalry once in a while, but they really weren't fighters.
There are some documented cases of Black Confederates in the ranks of the Confederate armies. During the Seven Days, there was a Confederate sniper in a tree picking off Yankees. They eventually figured out which tree he was in and fired volley after volley into it. When they recovered the body, they were surprised to find he was Black.
A Yankee soldier wrote to his parents that when he was captured at Gettysburg (Day One) he and his mates were shocked when they were escorted to the rear by an armed Black Confederate. He said they asked him what he was doing there and his answer was something like shut up Yank.
Officers often came to the front with a slave or two. They were cooks, and camp organizers. On occasion they would fight if an emergency arose, but they were not meant to be fighters.
There were free Blacks throughout the south. Some even owned slaves, but that is misleading. Almost always when that has been looked into, the slaves they owned were kin to them. Oftentimes a free Black would buy the freedom of his relatives one at a time. The courthouse was not easy to access though so sometimes the papers still showed the person a slave though they were a slave of their uncle who really just didn't have the access to the courthouse to get the papers official.
Confederate units formed by county, and many counties had no city larger than a small town. There were free Blacks who bought their freedom through their skill as blacksmith or cobbler. When the units formed and marched off to war, did the free Black cobbler go with them. It looks like it just depended by a county by county basis.
The official policy was no, but the rules were pretty loose. It really just depended what the reputation of the Black was in the community and what the attitude of the local mayor and preacher were.
Remember the Confederacy was a brand new nation trying to form itself, its army, its laws all the while while it was fighting a war for survival. Much of it was done on the fly.
It's a complicated story.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)confederate soldier that flag has stood for. Trying to say so now is BS- nothing more.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)Sure was't what I meant to say.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Maybe you want to re-read our little back and forth here?
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)although not very many. I've read that the numbers were from a few hundred to a few thousand. Nathan Bedford Forrest of all people, who was a slave trader before the war and briefly served as the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan after the war had black soldiers in his unit from the very start of the war. He promised some of his slaves freedom if they would serve with him. His trusted personal mounted guard included eight fully armed black soldiers and when Forrest surrendered at the end of the war in 1865, there were 65 black troopers in his cavalry unit who mustered out. Forrest was a very curious figure, massacring hundreds of black federal troops who had surrendered at the battle of Fort Pillow yet expressing open admiration for his black Confederate troopers who fought with him ("no finer Confederates ever fought", he was quoted as saying). After the war, he helped found the Klan but later cut ties with them. He supposedly helped finance many projects in the south to rebuild the infrastructure and hired a number of black architects and other skilled black individuals.
struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)on 12 April 1864, his cavalry division attacked the Union troops at the fort on the Mississippi, demanding from Major Booth unconditional surrender of the 295 white and 262 "colored" federal troops. Booth refused and Forrest's cavalry took the fort
... according to .. eyewitness accounts, the Confederates, enraged by the sight of black men in Federal uniform, executed many of the colored troops after they had surrendered: an unambiguous war crime ... Remember Fort Pillow became a rallying-cry for African-American soldiers throughout the Union Army ...
... Through 1862, there was an effective exchange system of POWs between the two sides. This entirely broke down in 1863, however, because the Confederacy refused to see black Union soldiers as soldiers - they would not be exchanged, but instead were made slaves (or, as in the 1864 Fort Pillow incident, simply murdered after their surrender) ...
jwirr
(39,215 posts)more like terrorized.
struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)of a cannon firing grapeshot at Union troops at the First Battle of Bull Run ... recalled ... he worried about dying, prayed for a Union victory, and dreamed of escaping to the other side ...
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/09/black-confederates/
struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)of black soldiers in the Confederate armies, why were none of them among the approximately 215,000 soldiers captured by the U. S. forces? ...
https://www.bluffton.edu/~bergerd/essays/trclark.htm
appalachiablue
(41,127 posts)Person 2713
(3,263 posts)alive too.
When a sports team faces defeat they pack up and graciously go home usually and the winning team talks about the win and dispLys its team logos
Unusual to be so tied to defeat. Must not want to give in to what they lost over 150 years ago and not about uniting the states in union ever then
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)The opposite holds true.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)derby378
(30,252 posts)"You want me to play a black slaver? Ain't nothin' lower than a black slaver." - Django Unchained
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And Irish, Danish and French SS soldiers in the German army during WW2. Relying on statistical aberrations and coercive tactics of many organizations does not an argument make.
Idiots and the under-educated defending a failed, four-year state predicated wholly on slavery are to be mocked, never engaged.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)SS Divisions Wiking and Nordland were made up of large numbers of Scandinavian volunteers. Like the Spanigsh Division Blau, they were often very tough outfits as they were true believers.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)The French Charlemagne division was considered one of the fiercest fighting units of the German army. What's left of them at the end was assigned to protect Hitler's bunker in Berlin when the Soviet army entered the city and was almost wiped out in heavy street fighting. I've read that the French members signed an agreement with Germany that they would only see action on the eastern front to specifically fight Bolshevism and they would not be required to face western armies of democratic countries, like the British or Americans.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)They never made it past training.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)These people and those hiding behind this garbage can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned. .