County Clerks will eventually obey the law but what about churches??

[kentuck]

Is there anything in the law that would require them to perform gay weddings ?

Or does their "freedom of religion" permit them to marry who they choose?

I don't know if this has yet been discussed?

[NaturalHigh]

1. No, they don't hae to perform weddings for anyone they don't want to.

Yes, their freedom of religion permits them to marry whomever they choose.

[kentuck]

3. So...

...the new law does not impose upon their religious freedom at all?

[el_bryanto]

8. It shouldn't

I don't think that forcing religions to marry people against their will would find much support.

Bryant

[kentuck]

11. Exactly!

It's a classic case of separation of church and state. No one is trying to interfere with the people's right to worship but "religious" folks are trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else, in my opinion.

[dumbcat]

28. What new law?

What is this new law of which you speak?

[peacebird]

2. Churches are exempt. Religious freedom. I personally think we should cut churches loose and

Remove their tax exemption, but I din't see that happening.

[yardwork]

4. This has been discussed at great length.

Churches have an iron-clad First Amendment right to marry whom they choose. The government can't force a church to marry anybody.

Not an issue.

Count clerks and magistrates are public servants. Those are civil marriages.

[onehandle]

5. No, and I don't think they should have to.

It would play right into their argument that 'gay marriage is an attack on their religion.'

The church service is just a decorative ceremony. The paperwork the county/state provides is the real license of marriage.

Whether it's an employee at the county/state office signing the paperwork, or your church's pastor/priest, you're married.

[Adrahil]

6. err... what? Churches can refuse to marry whoever they choose. As is their right.

Churches should be able to refuse to marry anyone. They are not a public accommodation.

Now.... if they rent their hall to the general public, they can't discriminate against protected groups. GLBT are not a federally protected group and are not protected in many states (for example, in mine, though my city DOES protect them).

[Maeve]

7. Shoot--most won't marry couples who aren't congregants

Or go thru classes...No one needs to be married by someone who disapproves of them anyway. There are plenty of folks qualified and happy to perform the ceremony.

[Calista241]

9. It's also a numbers game.

How many churches can close their chapel for a day to host a couple weddings, and most churches are busy on Sunday.

So, given that Saturday is the only weekend day where many people can get married, how many weddings can a single church offer per year? 100? 120?

[PoliticAverse]

10. What you really probably want to know is what are the limits of their "freedom of religion"

as determined by the courts.

For example although a church wouldn't be required to perform a same-sex wedding the courts
have found it could be required to rent a location the church owns (and rents to the public for events)
to a same-sex couple.

[still_one]

12. no, and they should not be required to do so. No one is forced to join a church, as no church can

force someone to join them.

There are enough churchs or civil ceremonies where same sex marriage will be honored.

The government cannot tell a church what to believe

[Bluenorthwest]

13. I assume you know the reality that the 1st Amendment gives religions freedom to practice as they

wish. I'm sure that you have had this explained before, I am also sure that you are aware that the Catholic Church will not marry people who have been divorced although both divorce and remarriage are perfectly legal and wildly common in the US.

Churches have nothing to do with it, never have and never will, unless they want to do so.

[WillowTree]

14. Just for the record, the Catholic Chuch will, in fact, marry people who are divorced.......

.......if the prior marriage has also been annulled by the Church.

[Oilwellian]

22. Screw that

It's a terrible rule when children are involved.

[WillowTree]

23. How so?

[kentuck]

16. Yes, and their right to worship has not been affected at all.

Their inclination to interfere with state matters has been challenged.

[Cal Carpenter]

24. A church wedding is not a state matter

If the pastor also happens to be the county clerk and refuses to perform his/her duties for the county because of religion, that is a problem. But a church has no obligation to perform this duty for the state. Churches can already pick and choose who gets married in their church and that doesn't change.

[Arugula Latte]

20. Government doesn't interfere in churches, but churches interfere in government.

They need to get their tax exemption revoked, pronto.

[Action_Patrol]

15. I don't care what churches do. I don't go to them

My marriage certificate is a state form that doesn't have a picture of Jesus with his thumbs up on it.
why the hell religion comes up at all on a marriage form makes no sense to me.

[frogmarch]

17. Churches that are actually for-profit businesses

must perform same sex marriages, even if the pastor is an ordained minister. Otherwise, churches are not obligated to marry same sex couples.

[Igel]

18. First, the "law" is a court decision.

It's not a legislative change. At most it struck down laws and ballot referenda.

SCOTUS relied on a due-process argument, and that's where its findings apply. Gays are entitled to due process. Due process applies to government. Unless there's government entanglement with the private organization that's under discussion, unless government plays a large enough role--then there's no due process that applies to a private individual or corporation. No, being tax exempt is not sufficient government entanglement: Many individual people are tax exempt, and I'm no different from most Americans in that I'm partially tax exempt.

Some argue that some churches are public accommodations. Public accommodations, the way I understand the term, extends constitutional protections to specific protected classes because it's in the government's interest to do so. Gays do not form a protected class. This is why some activists considered the SCOTUS ruling to be a loss and that the real fight continues. Women, minorities, the disabled, and various other subpopulations do; currently well over half the US population is in one or more protected classes and are afforded special protections in certain circumstances (officially we all are, but some are more protected than others).

[Recursion]

19. Catholic churches are not required to perform marriages for divorced people

The government will never step in and require a church to solemnize a marriage that contradicts its theology. Take that to the bank.

[MineralMan]

21. That will never be required.

It can't be. Ministers are completely free to marry or not marry any couple. They have been doing that forever. That's not going to change.

Frankly, I can't imagine why a couple would want a minister who didn't support their marriage to perform the ceremony in the first place.

In most places, other officiants are readily available to perform ceremonies. That might not be so true in small communities, but in cities of any larger size, it's easy to find wedding officiants and places to get married.

[NightWatcher]

25. You are forwarding a RW talking point. Many people who get married don't do it in a church

There is no way they will be required to host any weddings in a church, much less any they don't want to do, such as previously married people, gay, atheist....

[HassleCat]

26. Already settled

Churches can refuse to perform weddings for anyone who does not conform to their rules. Various churches refuse to marry one of their members to someone of a different faith, for example. As far as I know, they even have the freedom to turn down interracial marriages. Remember Bob Jones University, which prohibited interracial dating among its students? They can do that on the grounds of, "God told me to!" The government can threaten their tax-exempt status, but that's about it.

[Spazito]

27. Churches don't issue marriage licenses...

the reality is they are simply 'blessing' the union not making the decision on who can marry and who can't.

If they want to remain homophobic as to who shall receive that blessing, that is their right.